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Loyal Opposition Thread - Clean House 2022 (1 Viewer)

knowledge dropper said:
If obstruction prevents Biden from implementing bad policy, I say obstruct away. 
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Agreed, his side wrote the book on it they can’t get mad. Oh, wait....

 
JAA said:
I dont understand this line of thinking.  We printed 20% of all dollars in the past year.  Spending in the Trump administration dramatically increased.  Do people honestly believe that Biden will perform fiscally worse than Trump?
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I personally believe our deficits will grow under Biden, yes.  I'm not saying that as a left vs right thing, each side has been horrible at it.  It's just been we are trending in the wrong way, no matter which party is in control, the next guy is always worse than the previous guy.  I'm not sure where Biden would be cutting spending, and even if he's able to pass some kind of tax package that rolls back some rates, I don't see it being enough revenue to offset the spending.  

 
Shula-holic said:
I personally believe our deficits will grow under Biden, yes.  I'm not saying that as a left vs right thing, each side has been horrible at it.  It's just been we are trending in the wrong way, no matter which party is in control, the next guy is always worse than the previous guy.  I'm not sure where Biden would be cutting spending, and even if he's able to pass some kind of tax package that rolls back some rates, I don't see it being enough revenue to offset the spending.  
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Saving money isn’t in the DNA of most politicians at the Federal level.  Bofff sidezzz

 
Sea Duck said:
One congressman said it during a prayer ceremony the other day, and some people are outraged that he would have the audacity to say anything that might appeal to a denomination that they don't belong to.
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I didn't follow this story too closely, but (channeling my inner Joe Bryant) my Christian conservative friends weren't outraged. They thought it was silly, laughed at it, rolled their eyes, and then moved on. I'm sure there were some people out there who were outraged, but that didn't seem to be the majority response that I noticed.

 
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Stealthycat said:
I think the political environment is when you have power, you wield it and ram through agenda
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I think this is true and also and witnessed the Democrats trying to ram through paternity leave into the first stimulus bill. I expect nothing less than left-wing stuff from this crew in the House now that they have the Senate, too. 

 
I'm not sure I understand why a majority of the right is always angry. They were angry at Obama. Reasons given; "left behind in the economy" and maybe fear about taking guns away. I'm sure if being honest, there were other "reasons".

Then Trump comes along and the Rs take all 3 branches of government and then they get angrier at everything?! They got their dream of getting to appoint 3 Supreme Court Justices. Pack the courts. They had complete power to fix the perceived wrongs, and instead a large block of them tilted at windmills of conspiracy and believed the lies told to them by their leaders. Then they lose 2 branches primarily because of their rage and are now impossibly even angrier and will spend the next 2-4 years being apoplectic. I'm not really clear on what would make them happy?

 
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ericttspikes said:
I'm not sure I understand why a majority of the right is always angry. They were angry at Obama. Reasons given; "left behind in the economy" and maybe fear about taking guns away. I'm sure if being honest, there were other "reasons".

Then Trump comes along and the Rs take all 3 branches of government and then they get angrier at everything?! They got their dream of getting to appoint 3 Supreme Court Justices. Pack the courts. They had complete power to fix the perceived wrongs, and instead a large block of them tilted at windmills of conspiracy and believe the lies told to them by their leaders. Then they lose all 3 branches primarily because of their rage and are now impossibly even angrier and will spend the next 2-4 years being apoplectic. I'm not really clear on what would make them happy?
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Darn it I was going to post a really short and funny South Park clip that I think provides the answer but I'm afraid it'd get me banned. 

Hint: It's a very brief question and answer between the mayor and Mr. Garrison in the South Park public square from an episode back in 2012.  

 
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ericttspikes said:
I'm not sure I understand why a majority of the right is always angry. They were angry at Obama. Reasons given; "left behind in the economy" and maybe fear about taking guns away. I'm sure if being honest, there were other "reasons".

Then Trump comes along and the Rs take all 3 branches of government and then they get angrier at everything?! They got their dream of getting to appoint 3 Supreme Court Justices. Pack the courts. They had complete power to fix the perceived wrongs, and instead a large block of them tilted at windmills of conspiracy and believed the lies told to them by their leaders. Then they lose 2 branches primarily because of their rage and are now impossibly even angrier and will spend the next 2-4 years being apoplectic. I'm not really clear on what would make them happy?
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I think true Rs were made what trump did to the party from the beginning attracting and giving voice to elements they would prefer stay silent.  I think that factors in.

 
ericttspikes said:
I'm not sure I understand why a majority of the right is always angry. They were angry at Obama. Reasons given; "left behind in the economy" and maybe fear about taking guns away. I'm sure if being honest, there were other "reasons".

Then Trump comes along and the Rs take all 3 branches of government and then they get angrier at everything?! They got their dream of getting to appoint 3 Supreme Court Justices. Pack the courts. They had complete power to fix the perceived wrongs, and instead a large block of them tilted at windmills of conspiracy and believed the lies told to them by their leaders. Then they lose 2 branches primarily because of their rage and are now impossibly even angrier and will spend the next 2-4 years being apoplectic. I'm not really clear on what would make them happy?
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Paul Ryan was weak.  

 
ericttspikes said:
I'm not sure I understand why a majority of the right is always angry. They were angry at Obama. Reasons given; "left behind in the economy" and maybe fear about taking guns away. I'm sure if being honest, there were other "reasons".

Then Trump comes along and the Rs take all 3 branches of government and then they get angrier at everything?! They got their dream of getting to appoint 3 Supreme Court Justices. Pack the courts. They had complete power to fix the perceived wrongs, and instead a large block of them tilted at windmills of conspiracy and believed the lies told to them by their leaders. Then they lose 2 branches primarily because of their rage and are now impossibly even angrier and will spend the next 2-4 years being apoplectic. I'm not really clear on what would make them happy?
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The reason social conservatives are angry is that the central idea of conservatism is to maintain the current social order. The ideals of this nation are "liberty and justice for all",. However the reality is that this nation has always been dominated politically, economically, socially and culturally by white, male, Protestants. Exactly when this domination started to fade is open to debate. I'd start with the start of popular culture, specifically recorder music and movies. It accelerated after WWII. Demographic changes will continue the trend away from the current social order unless there really is a takeover by far right wing types who establish an authoritarian regime. I truly believe the right wingers in this country want to do this. I hope they fail but I'm not sure they will.

 
ericttspikes said:
I'm not sure I understand why a majority of the right is always angry. They were angry at Obama. Reasons given; "left behind in the economy" and maybe fear about taking guns away. I'm sure if being honest, there were other "reasons".

Then Trump comes along and the Rs take all 3 branches of government and then they get angrier at everything?! They got their dream of getting to appoint 3 Supreme Court Justices. Pack the courts. They had complete power to fix the perceived wrongs, and instead a large block of them tilted at windmills of conspiracy and believed the lies told to them by their leaders. Then they lose 2 branches primarily because of their rage and are now impossibly even angrier and will spend the next 2-4 years being apoplectic. I'm not really clear on what would make them happy?
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They spent 8 years getting really good at outrage. Didn’t know how to turn it off. 

 
knowledge dropper said:
Well now we know what Biden thinks is the #1 issue to address
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/01/15/joe-biden-day-1-order-on-transgender-rights-in-sports-and-bathrooms/
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With all the REAL problems we have in this country, this is ridiculous.  They make up like .0000004% of the population.  In reality, they should be conforming to the other 99.9% and not the other way around.   Why are we always catering to the fringe?  This isn't going to go over well.

And this is not the "Civil Rights Issue" of our time.  Give me a break.  It's like the left want's a cause so bad they're just making crap up at this point.

 
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ericttspikes said:
I'm not sure I understand why a majority of the right is always angry. They were angry at Obama. Reasons given; "left behind in the economy" and maybe fear about taking guns away. I'm sure if being honest, there were other "reasons".

Then Trump comes along and the Rs take all 3 branches of government and then they get angrier at everything?! They got their dream of getting to appoint 3 Supreme Court Justices. Pack the courts. They had complete power to fix the perceived wrongs, and instead a large block of them tilted at windmills of conspiracy and believed the lies told to them by their leaders. Then they lose 2 branches primarily because of their rage and are now impossibly even angrier and will spend the next 2-4 years being apoplectic. I'm not really clear on what would make them happy?
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Now do the angry left

 
Sea Duck said:
One congressman said it during a prayer ceremony the other day, and some people are outraged that he would have the audacity to say anything that might appeal to a denomination that they don't belong to.
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VIDEO: .... Congress Opens Prayer with 'Amen And Awomen'

1,760,872 views •Jan 4, 2021 Ben Shapiro

Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-MO), who is an ordained United Methodist minister, opened the first session of the 117th Congress on Sunday by praying in the name of a Hindu god and twisting the word “amen” into a commentary on gender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQqbc-uPUNQ

******

I do not believe in God. I did however grow up going to Sunday School ( and glad that I did) and while I have my own conflicts with organized religion and their scandals, I do see the good that many churches do in their communities and their positive work with children. In some places, the church is the only safe haven for a community in distress.

Cleaver doubled down by facing the criticism with saying it was a "pun".  Which has horrible media optics (inexcusable for a professional politician) since Amen is a Hebrew term. If someone walked in front of Congress and made a "pun" that disparaged the tradition and language of .... say... Muslims and Somalia... how would Ilhan Omar and her district respond?

Tradition is a push/pull concept. In religion, tradition can evolve into a toxic legalistic burden for a congregation. But it also serves as a bedrock for an entire value and ethics system within that community. When you try to hard roll the Hebrew traditions for the sake of wokeness and to shock market your way into the daily media cycle (Cleaver is a politician, he wants national media exposure, it's just he got it in a way that backfired on him), you've also laid an open assault on value system in place. Mocking an entire value system spanning generations has nothing "appealing" about it.

It's free speech on one side, but lacks common sense and is poor political strategy on the other. How much support and campaign money do you think Cleaver will get from Hollywood/Big Entertainment and/or Big Finance ever again?

 
MAC_32 said:
Or...ignore both - and decision make without regard to either. 
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Except Joe Biden has directly said he's going to cater to the fringe.  We can't ignore it as the left is going to plow full steam ahead and make 99.9% of the population conform around a super-minority fringe.  They're basically letting the inmates run the asylum.

 
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ericttspikes said:
I'm not sure I understand why a majority of the right is always angry. They were angry at Obama. Reasons given; "left behind in the economy" and maybe fear about taking guns away. I'm sure if being honest, there were other "reasons".

Then Trump comes along and the Rs take all 3 branches of government and then they get angrier at everything?! They got their dream of getting to appoint 3 Supreme Court Justices. Pack the courts. They had complete power to fix the perceived wrongs, and instead a large block of them tilted at windmills of conspiracy and believed the lies told to them by their leaders. Then they lose 2 branches primarily because of their rage and are now impossibly even angrier and will spend the next 2-4 years being apoplectic. I'm not really clear on what would make them happy?
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Wow.  This is rich.  Have you been around the last 4 years?

 
BladeRunner said:
Except Joe Biden has directly said he's going to cater to the fringe.  We can't ignore it as the left is going to plow full steam ahead and make 99.9% of the population conform around a super-minority fringe.  They're basically letting the inmates run the asylum.
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No, he didn't directly or literally say this - he didn't even infer it from any statement I have heard or seen. 

 
BladeRunner said:
Except Joe Biden has directly said he's going to cater to the fringe.  So while we CAN ignore it, the left is going to plow full steam ahead and make 99.9% of the population conform around a super-minority fringe.

We can't ignore it.
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Yes we can. To move forward this republican party must die.

The not crazy part of it can coalesce with libertarians that have already broken off and the faction of the democrats that will splinter as they migrate towards progressive. A Biden presidency with a slim majority in the senate is the perfect setup for conservative reform. No matter how many times right wing media screams BOOGEYMAN socialism isn't gonna happen. Not under this leadership. There will be policy decisions that don't align with conservative priorities, but this is the consequence to conforming with alt-right loony toon politics. And it will take time to expunge that fringe group and rebuild in a more pragmatic framework. 

The problem with that optimal approach is it requires short term losses and our society lacks the ability and willingness to look beyond what's directly in front of them. So it won't happen. Hope I'm wrong. 

 
BladeRunner said:
Hah!  Like Joe is gonna' last 2 years.  Kamala isn't waiting 2 years.  6 months - TOPS.
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Yep, it’s going to be quite the experience. All the Trump outragers are going to realize what they really voted for with “but Trump”. Setting minimum wage at these levels with businesses struggling to hang on. We went from someone that put business first to someone with zero understanding/care for business. 

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Now do the angry left
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I hated the riots last summer. Had a lot of people I know have damage done to their businesses. A few of which also supported BLM and marched along side them after boarding up their businesses. I doubt I would of been that understanding. Also, awful timing during the pandemic too. I can't pretend to really know their motivation because I'm not a black person living in America, but can at least understand their feeling that systemic racism still exists and have history and examples of its existence as proof. I do support non violent actions to bring attention to their cause, like NFL players kneeling. But even the non-violent stuff was condemned and ridiculed by the right.

I really have no idea who or what Antifa is. I suspect a lot of anarchists and people who like to cause trouble, fight and monkey wrench. Earth First had people like that. Their cause was the environment, but they would spike trees and loggers would get hurt or killed. Just an awful way to "fight" for the environment. A much better way for all people to bring attention to their causes is simply bring non-violent attention to your beliefs, present the facts and try to win public support.

I still don't really know what the rights anger is about. Deep state? Is it the Q insanity? Is it a belief that there is some "reset" going to happen? Globalization? 5g? Gov lying about Covid? All the stuff I've seen about this seems completely bonkers. The "facts" just aren't there, and a ton of the current anger is generated from this subset, and coopted by leadership in bad faith to gain their support. Even the perpetuation of the election being stolen was done in such bad faith, it was painful to watch that dance. But yeah, if I believed in my president and he is complaining since 2016, and probably before that, that democracy is rigged, I'd be angry too. I'd be hoodwinked, but angry.

 
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ericttspikes said:
I unplugged from Facebook 2 years ago, and really don't watch any news shows. Why are you angry?
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Seems like you're gaslighting, here.  What makes you think I'm angry?

Also, you don't watch any media at all?  TV?  Radio?  Nothing?  I think you're playing dumb on purpose.  No way you can accuse "the right" of being angry and have ZERO idea on the behavior of the left the last 20 years, much last the last 4.

 
BladeRunner said:
Seems like you're gaslighting, here.  What makes you think I'm angry?

Also, you don't watch any media at all?  TV?  Radio?  Nothing?  I think you're playing dumb on purpose.  No way you can accuse "the right" of being angry and have ZERO idea on the behavior of the left the last 20 years, much last the last 4.
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I think he was referring to your previous post.

 
bigbottom said:
JAA said:
You made an academic statement which I agree with.

I am super surprised folks think Biden will spend more than Trump.  I find that hard to believe.
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As his first order of business, he is proposing a 1.9 trillion dollar relief and coronavirus response bill. 
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Sounds like we should have a tickr.  Maybe a betting line?  I would definitely take the under.

 
knowledge dropper said:
JAA said:
You made an academic statement which I agree with.

I am super surprised folks think Biden will spend more than Trump.  I find that hard to believe.
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I think Trump’s pandemic spending will be the outlier unless Biden gets us in another military quagmire.  
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Well if you throw out his 2 big runs his YPC drastically decreases!

If you want to asterisk Trumps a pandemic spending, can we also asterisk Biden’s cleanup spending?

I kid I kid but you get the point :)

 
Shula-holic said:
I personally believe our deficits will grow under Biden, yes.  I'm not saying that as a left vs right thing, each side has been horrible at it.  It's just been we are trending in the wrong way, no matter which party is in control, the next guy is always worse than the previous guy.  I'm not sure where Biden would be cutting spending, and even if he's able to pass some kind of tax package that rolls back some rates, I don't see it being enough revenue to offset the spending.  
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Have you looked at what Clinton and Obama did?  I’ll qualify they were not the best presidents but I would encourage you to look at the numbers. 

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Now do the angry left
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IMHO the left didn’t get angry until Trump. Heck, POTUS Trump helped the Ds get something to agree on and rally behind.

 
JAA said:
Have you looked at what Clinton and Obama did?  I’ll qualify they were not the best presidents but I would encourage you to look at the numbers. 
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I voted for Clinton twice, I'd count him as the last who was responsible in that regard.  I do give some credit to Gingrich and the R House back then too.  Clinton and Gingrich worked together and good things happened.

 
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knowledge dropper said:
Seems like identity politics?

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/01/19/joe-biden-selects-pennsylvania-transgender-health-official-rachel-levine-for-hhs/
 
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Or she is just highly qualified for the job:

Dr. Levine is currently the Secretary of Health for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and Professor of Pediatrics and Psychiatry at the Penn State College of Medicine.

Dr. Levine is a Fellow of the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Society for Adolescent Health and Medicine, and the Academy for Eating Disorders. She is also the President of ASTHO, the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials.

Dr. Levine joined the Wolf administration in January 2015 as the Physician General of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and served from 2015-2017. She was named Acting Secretary of Health in July 2017 and confirmed as Secretary of Health in March 2018.

Her previous posts included: Vice-Chair for Clinical Affairs for the Department of Pediatrics and Chief of the Division of Adolescent Medicine and Eating Disorders at the Penn State Hershey Medical Center.

https://www.health.pa.gov/About/Pages/Leadership.aspx

 
The Dude said:
I think true Rs were made what trump did to the party from the beginning attracting and giving voice to elements they would prefer stay silent.  I think that factors in.
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Who are the true R's?  The libertarians, the chamber of commerce guys, the limited government types?  Or the conspiracy theorists (John Birch ==> Trump), the silent majority, the Anita Bryant crowd, the theocrats, the tea partiers, etc.?  The former navigating the latter has been the story of the GOP for about 60+ years now.  Sometimes with success.  Sometimes with failure.  Sometimes that failure is just losing elections.  Sometimes that failure is the "inmates running the asylum".  But which one really represents the GOP?   We had these same arguments for most of the 19¾ years of these forums.   I can still see @bueno posting "follow the money" for most of those early years  but if one had doubts then I think Trump's primary performance in 2016 shows that this is not a dependable test.  So again who is really representative of  the GOP?

 
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