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MLB moves All-Star game in response to GA voter laws (3 Viewers)

FairWarning said:
How did I leave the alphabet out?  I guess Little Rock isn't getting a Super Bowl anytime soon.  Who knows, maybe Wal-Mart will be so offended by the Arkensas LGBTQ stance, they will pull out of Bensonville?  

OK, probably not.
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I still want to know how much Magic Woke Points are worth.  :shrug:

We've got a whole political party on a mission to collect as many as possible.  They have to be worth something.

 
BladeRunner said:
Drop boxes were NEVER an issue before.  No one ever complained about not having enough drop boxes, even when there was less than 20.  Now, suddenly, 94 is the NEW floor?  And if we don't have that then "RACISM!!" ?

I'm not buying it.  I think the left knee-jerked on this one yet again.
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25 years ago, nobody complained about not having a cell phone, either.

We evolve, learn new things, and improve.  The is zero doubt that drop boxes made voting easier for some and increased the confidence level in people who were voting.

In the same vein, two years ago I could not renew my license or car registrations on-line.  Now, I would be very disappointed if they took that option away - simply because we "should go back to the old way of doing things."

 
Sinn Fein said:
25 years ago, nobody complained about not having a cell phone, either.

We evolve, learn new things, and improve.  The is zero doubt that drop boxes made voting easier for some and increased the confidence level in people who were voting.

In the same vein, two years ago I could not renew my license or car registrations on-line.  Now, I would be very disappointed if they took that option away - simply because we "should go back to the old way of doing things."
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The kiosks are a great thing to have also for renewing.  

 
BladeRunner said:
Drop boxes were NEVER an issue before.  No one ever complained about not having enough drop boxes, even when there was less than 20.  Now, suddenly, 94 is the NEW floor?  And if we don't have that then "RACISM!!" ?

I'm not buying it.  I think the left knee-jerked on this one yet again.
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I'm not buying it either...but then again, I don't have anyone trying to sell me it.  :shrug:

It's probably the least controversial statement to say "Hey, the more convenient it is to vote, the more people are going to vote".  I think we all agree with that right?  So when they are afforded that option and they like it, of course they are going to want it to continue.  It's in the "didn't know what I was missing" affect.  Not all that complicated honestly.

 
Summer Wheat said:
Has Rob Manfred given up his Augusta National membership yet??
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Manfred is the typical  "Do as I say, not as I do"     For Manfred to be "woke" he should have made a statement, "First of all I am giving up my membership at Augusta National in Georgia, and we are moving the MLB All Star Game"  Then we know he is personally invested.  If he does not give it up he is not invested.  Manfred is playing the game and it has nothing to do with baseball.

Hopefully he does the right thing but rumor has it he was planning on attending The Masters this year as members are royalty at this event.  There is no way he can now.

 
Imagine Georgia did something nutty to make voting super easy, like I dunno you just have to drop the ballot in a mailbox.  And for these, no photo ID, just last four of your SSN.

How would MLB react?

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
Looks like this question has still not been addressed.
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Just a layman’s view...the state is responsible for certifying the results, why would they not want this authority if they have that responsibility?

If I’m responsible for the performance of something I want the authority to make changes if necessary.

 
djmich said:
Imagine Georgia did something nutty to make voting super easy, like I dunno you just have to drop the ballot in a mailbox.  And for these, no photo ID, just last four of your SSN.

How would MLB react?
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Probalby move the All-Star game to Pyongang, North Korea.

 
djmich said:
Just a layman’s view...the state is responsible for certifying the results, why would they not want this authority if they have that responsibility?

If I’m responsible for the performance of something I want the authority to make changes if necessary.
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In Florida, changes were not necessary according to bipartisan and npa county heads of county election boards. Even the FL GOP legislature said the 2020 election was a fair election "excellent, excellent” and conducted with “very high credibility.” It's a political move by the legislature to have more control over the local election boards. This is the rationale by the FL GOP to exert more control over the county-level election supervisors:

"Baxley said he didn’t have evidence of fraud or other problems with the drop boxes, but said that doesn’t mean there aren’t any issues. “The challenge is that you don’t know what you don’t know,” he said.

This is the bottom line: >>Stung by how well Democrats did vote-by-mail ballots last year, Republicans who control state government are making sure it doesn’t happen again by changing Florida election law to make it more difficult for citizens to use mail voting.<<

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-florida-senate-republicans-restrict-mail-voting-20210310-7fg7ny2udjestlk323qadop2vi-story.html

 
timschochet said:
Repeating one more time because there are people here who refuse to understand why this is a racist law: it is a racist law because the people that wrote it carefully examined all of the ways black voting increased in the last two elections, and then deliberately targeted all of those increases in order to make voting more difficult. When you target black voting and try to decrease it, you’re behaving in a racist, Jim Crow fashion. That’s why all of the analogies made by Biden, MLB and others are accurate. 
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I don't think it is racist because I don't think they are motivated by race. I think they are motivated to make it more difficult for a demographic that heavily votes Democrat to vote.  If 90% of the black community voted for Republicans, the GOP would be doing everything they could to make it easier for them to vote. Do you disagree? 

Full disclosure: I think having an ID to vote should be a requirement, and I also think state-issued ID's should be free and steps should be put in place to make it as easy as possible to get that free state ID.  

 
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msudaisy26 said:
I am sure they did get a say. They probably got over ruled by a majority of the teams/owners. 
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And do you believe that's a good thing?

1) If a MLB franchise is 2nd or 3rd on a short list for an All Star game, would you not see the incentive to do whatever is possible to turf anyone in front of you in line for a clear money maker / prestige for said city?  If you were a Mayor or Governor, and you've supported your local MLB franchise, wouldn't you want a return on your investment and demand that MLB team start turfing other teams and do whatever is possible to get a big MLB event in  that city as soon as possible?

2) Once you introduce one non baseball related matter to impact actually baseball related matters, where does it end? What is considered worthy enough to interfere with normal operations of MLB?

3) Rob Manfred was already under heavy fire for essentially allowing the Houston Astros to cheat and steal a World Series and get away with it. ( As I type this, Joe Kelly has been sentenced to death by the league office, he will be stoned and then quartered, for reasons to be named later. )  Does MLB want these kind of optics? Justice for voters! (Maybe) But nothing for actual fans? Esp fans in Oakland, LA and Boston?

4) Where does this end?

Direct Headline: Voting Laws Roundup: February 2021

After historic turnout and increased mail voting in 2020, state lawmakers across the country are pulling in opposite directions by introducing restrictive and expansive voting legislation.

Published: February 8, 2021

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/voting-laws-roundup-february-2021

******

This is a clearly left leaning article, but look at the practical pathway now. The Arizona Diamondbacks and the Pittsburgh Pirates are now under the cross hairs. And if we are talking a range outside of baseball, what about the Steelers, Cardinals and Suns? Then also the Miami Marlins, Dolphins, Heat, Nets and Jets? What about college football and bowl games? What about the NCAA tournament?

And let's get past the owners, the networks, the players and all the people making big dollars. What about the people who clean the bathrooms? Sell merchandise? Cook food? Work the front desk at a hotel? Drive trucks and buses? Work in a restaurant?

There are a lot of regular people, already battered by the pandemic economically, who are just trying to feed their kids. And pay the rent. And try to survive.

I'd said this before, a large number of regular posters, not all but many, are white college educated liberals in white collar professions making above average money for most of America. Do some of you guys ( not all but many) realize how tone deaf and entitled you sound to those out there just trying to get by in life? 

This decision is not just one isolated choice by MLB, it's going to burst a dam of future events that are unpredictable and have long lasting consequences for many people who didn't do anything wrong here. But hey, we can't talk about the slippery slope in place that's going to rise in tiers of cancel culture absurdity. Well, I disagreed with the woke narrative, so now I must be cast out. Labeled a racist and a bigot and a misogynist and stoned to death right along side Joe Kelly. 

After the Astros, Rob Manfred has no business talking to me or anyone else here about ethics and morality. He can take his simping virtue signaling and shove that happy horse #### right back up in his own ###. But he's achieved the impossible, he made me actually feel sympathy for Dodger's fans.

 
GordonGekko said:
This decision is not just one isolated choice by MLB, it's going to burst a dam of future events that are unpredictable and have long lasting consequences for many people who didn't do anything wrong here. But hey, we can't talk about the slippery slope in place that's going to rise in tiers of cancel culture absurdity. Well, I disagreed with the woke narrative, so now I must be cast out. Labeled a racist and a bigot and a misogynist and stoned to death right along side Joe Kelly.
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This is exactly right. Where exactly do policy disagreements end without there being a boycott or a move of a franchise? To only those locations that have produced no new legislation? Or will there need to be correctives to current legislation to get these locales up to sporting snuff?

This was always a bad idea to allow the union this much clout. What about the anti-transgender law in North Carolina. What is so fundamental about restrooms and puberty blockers that high-level athletes should be sitting out games in reaction.

This is all virtue signaling, nothing more. And don't think it's about labor unions sticking up for the common man. It's about an attempted solidarity -- but not with other union members like the SEIU or any of the service industry workers -- with other political pressure groups that receive beaucoup dollars to cause and foment dissent like this. All by wealthy wage laborers who could never dream of living the life of your average vendor or small Mom and Pop shop depending on trinket sales from the All-Star game to boost their bottom line. No, the race hustlers and the players' unions (a joke nod to the working class that pays their salaries if there ever was one) simply seek to line their own pockets at the expense of everyone else involved. And the owners kowtow to it an an industry where the books are private and nobody knows what the #### everybody involved is truly making.

It's sort of sickening, this wokeness at the behest of millionaires. Truly, we are slowly descending into creating an oligarchy of hell whereby the billionaires of sport dictate the laws that apply to the masses. I've said many times that I hate this bill, but I hate this more. What a shame.

 
I really don't get the hub ub.....corporations are people too.  Mitch and his gaggle of merry men would be wise to remember that  :shrug:  

 
The Commish said:
I really don't get the hub ub.....corporations are people too.  Mitch and his gaggle of merry men would be wise to remember that  :shrug:  
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Sinn Fein said:
Honestly - I thought the conservatives fought for corporations to have a political voice in Citizens United.

How corporations, or groups, or leagues use that voice is really down to them, and what they perceive as their best interest.

But, states are free to ignore MLB, or other corporations when they try to exert pressure.  And, lets face it - if the public sides with the state - then the state feels no pressure.  If the public sides with the corporations - maybe the states should listen.
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Sinn Fein said:
McConnell clarifies:

“My warning to corporate America is to stay out of politics,” McConnell said at a news conference in Kentucky on Tuesday, before adding: “I’m not talking about political contributions.”

So - money to candidates is still good, but otherwise, leave politics to the professional grifters.
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According to Georgia’s Lt Governor, the new law was motivated by Trump’s lies about the election: 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/07/politics/geoff-duncan-voter-fraud-cnntv/index.html

Actually, why I have no doubt that this is partly true, I think the January 5 election scared the Republicans far more than the November one, which they could chalk up to dislike of Trump. But January 5, without Trump on the ballot, demonstrated that the black vote might be here to stay unless something was done to repress it. 

 
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timschochet said:
According to Georgia’s Lt Governor, the new law was motivated by Trump’s lies about the election: 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/07/politics/geoff-duncan-voter-fraud-cnntv/index.html

Actually, why I have no doubt that this is partly true, I think the January 5 election scared the Republicans far more than the November one, which they could chalk up to dislike of Trump. But January 5, without Trump on the ballot, demonstrated that the black vote might be here to stay unless something was done to repress it. 
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I think january was an outlier.  No way they get that many people voting if it wasn’t the deciding state.   

 
Amused to Death said:
21 hours ago, Hoodoo said:
Because I listen to people talk about it and I read the news. And if you'e implying that it's because of Trump, then I would say that you're very wrong.

This is from back in 2018: Much of it talks about foreign intervention in our elections, which was pushed mostly, but not exclusively, by Democrats.

Are Voters Losing Confidence in the Integrity of Our Elections?

Link to the poll
Expand  
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Your link focused on two main points; foreign influence on social media and Florida's "hanging chads". Do you think the new GA laws addresses either of those?

I think its more likely the result of pushing mistrust by right-wing media.

  • Trump claiming he could only lose a "rigged" election months before a single vote was cast
  • His lawyers falsely claiming to have evidence of voting machines switching votes
  • claims of illegal immigrants voting
  • Claims of mysterious boxes of ballots being found under a table
  • False claims that Trump campaign officials weren't granted access to watch counting
  • The unending stream of unnecessary lawsuits claiming fraud when they admitted in court to having no evidence
  • Right-wing media pushing these lies for months
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"This is really the fallout from the 10 weeks of misinformation that flew in from former President Donald Trump," Georgia Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan said on CNN's "New Day.""I went back over the weekend to really look at where this really started to gain momentum in the legislature, and it was when Rudy Giuliani showed up in a couple of committee rooms and spent hours spreading misinformation and sowing doubt across, you know, hours of testimony."

Seem it does stem from Trump.

 
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Desert_Power said:
Anonymous sources and PJ Media seem pretty reliable  :shrug:   
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PJ Media is fine, actually. I used to read Instapundit all the time until it turned into a grievance fest about how Trump was being handled. Then I stopped reading it because it was pure bull#### in my opinion. But while they're definitely to the right and pro-Trump, I have less doubt to their sincerity, veracity, nor sources than a Newsmax or even a Fox News.

 
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rockaction said:
PJ Media is fine, actually. I used to read Instapundit all the time until it turned into a grievance fest about how Trump was being handled. Then I stopped reading it because it was pure bull#### in my opinion. But while they're definitely to the right and pro-Trump, I have less doubt to their sincerity, veracity, nor sources than a Newsmax or even a Fox News.
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PJ Media has been caught making false claims again and again. No better than Breitbart. 

These forums are not news sources. 

 
Amused to Death said:
"This is really the fallout from the 10 weeks of misinformation that flew in from former President Donald Trump," Georgia Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan said on CNN's "New Day.""I went back over the weekend to really look at where this really started to gain momentum in the legislature, and it was when Rudy Giuliani showed up in a couple of committee rooms and spent hours spreading misinformation and sowing doubt across, you know, hours of testimony."

Seem it does stem from Trump.
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Because Geoff Duncan said so. That makes it a fact.

 
Amused to Death said:
The Republican Lt. Gov. from state that passed the law, seems like a good source for why they implemented the changes. I'd imagine there aren't many better.

:shrug:  
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You mean the Governor who has repeatedly expressed no support for Trump? I'm totally shocked that he would say that it all started with Trump. You're right, that's a total gem.

 
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timschochet said:
PJ Media has been caught making false claims again and again. No better than Breitbart. 

These forums are not news sources. 
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Better than forged documents about a sitting President's service? On purpose? 

Still haven't forgotten about that one, Dan Rather. CBS is no longer a credible news source. They've been caught making false claims and then having to correct stories again and again. 

Stop hanging your hat on the MSM. They're awful. 

 
rockaction said:
Better than forged documents about a sitting President's service? On purpose? 

Still haven't forgotten about that one, Dan Rather. CBS is no longer a credible news source. They've been caught making false claims and then having to correct stories again and again. 

Stop hanging your hat on the MSM. They're awful. 
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You’re comparing outliers to common occurrences. CBS News is highly trustworthy. That’s why it’s a big story when they (apparently) get something wrong. 

 
Thats the problem with things...a source gets some things wrong they get branded fake news...unless they are far right apparently.  Then they are ok.

PJMedia is not ok...it, like the GatewayPundits of the world, are awful sources.  Not in the same league as CBS or Fox or even CNN.  Those latter, even with their flaws, are miles ahead of places like PJMedia (and that would also include the far left counterparts).

 
sho nuff said:
Thats the problem with things...a source gets some things wrong they get branded fake news...unless they are far right apparently.  Then they are ok.

PJMedia is not ok...it, like the GatewayPundits of the world, are awful sources.  Not in the same league as CBS or Fox or even CNN.  Those latter, even with their flaws, are miles ahead of places like PJMedia (and that would also include the far left counterparts).
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Gets some things wrong?   :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

It was a deliberate hit piece on DeSantis not an oops we made a mistake moment.  Jeez.  Take your L on this one.  CBS is fake news.

 
Desert_Power said:
Anonymous sources and PJ Media seem pretty reliable  :shrug:   
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The reporting for this story seems on par with plenty of other stories. The trouble is the use of the anonymous sources. This makes the story unverifiable. It also leaves open the possibility of a game of telephone. 

Seems pretty clear that Abrams and Manfred spoke(Abrams axknowledges this) and that some time after that Manfred made the decision. 

So an unnamed source can run to the media and give their account of a meeting that may have happened. Abrams talks to Manfred and he decides to pull the game. Not because of Abrams saying pull the game, but because of Abrams applying pressure to come out against the law and Manfred fearing protests and constant politicization, he makes the decision. 

Source then tells media Abrams convinced Manfred.

Source might even believe that to be true and it could technically be true, if it was their convo that made him decide.  But maybe it was the admin that just transferred the call or brought water to meeting(if thats still legal) and then immediately after the decision gets made. What else would the admin think happened?  Not saying this is what happened, but it illustrates exactly why the only acceptable sources for the story should be Manfred and Abrams. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
The reporting for this story seems on par with plenty of other stories. The trouble is the use of the anonymous sources. This makes the story unverifiable. It also leaves open the possibility of a game of telephone. 

Seems pretty clear that Abrams and Manfred spoke(Abrams axknowledges this) and that some time after that Manfred made the decision. 

So an unnamed source can run to the media and give their account of a meeting that may have happened. Abrams talks to Manfred and he decides to pull the game. Not because of Abrams saying pull the game, but because of Abrams applying pressure to come out against the law and Manfred fearing protests and constant politicization, he makes the decision. 

Source then tells media Abrams convinced Manfred.

Source might even believe that to be true and it could technically be true, if it was their convo that made him decide.  But maybe it was the admin that just transferred the call or brought water to meeting(if thats still legal) and then immediately after the decision gets made. What else would the admin think happened?  Not saying this is what happened, but it illustrates exactly why the only acceptable sources for the story should be Manfred and Abrams. 
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Why would Abrams want to punish her own state for a baseball game? 

 
djmich said:
Anonymous sources, which have been a staple of journalism forever, say otherwise

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/stacey-abrams-urged-mlb-commissioner-move-all-star-game.amp
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You’re not contradicting me. 
The question wasn’t  whether Abrams wanted MLB to boycott- I’m sure she did. The question is whether or not she cares about the people who are hurt by this. I’m sure she does. I’m thinking both are true, because they’re certainly true of me. 

 
timschochet said:
You’re not contradicting me. 
The question wasn’t  whether Abrams wanted MLB to boycott- I’m sure she did. The question is whether or not she cares about the people who are hurt by this. I’m sure she does. I’m thinking both are true, because they’re certainly true of me. 
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A trade-off I suppose...I’d actually respect if she said that. 

 
timschochet said:
You’re not contradicting me. 
The question wasn’t  whether Abrams wanted MLB to boycott- I’m sure she did. The question is whether or not she cares about the people who are hurt by this. I’m sure she does. I’m thinking both are true, because they’re certainly true of me. 
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Politics....Well this is going to hurt many people in my state, missed a great chance for exposure to our state and our people and stadiums...but it will be good for me politically in the long run.  Could have been handled so much better by Abrams for her so called state.

 
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