Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
1968 Bob Gibson has entered the chat.
(although you would have been 3 when he was at his most dominate, so he may not count.)
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deGrom (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Uncle Leo
- Start date
1968 Bob Gibson has entered the chat.
(although you would have been 3 when he was at his most dominate, so he may not count.)
zamboni
Footballguy
No question strikeouts are at historical highs, as are HRs. But that doesn't mean that pitchers have much more of an edge than in past years: other hitting metrics like batting average, runs/game, slugging percentage, and OPS do not seem to indicate any sort of trend (although batting average this year so far is the worst on record).
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/bat.shtml
Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
We may want to pump the brakes on these comparisons. This was only deGrom's 4th complete game and only 2nd shutout of his CAREER.
I understand the game is played differently today and pitchers are just not expected to go more than 6/7 innings, but Gooden/Ryan/Johnson/Clemens would have had that many by mid April.
zamboni
Footballguy
I see your point, although I do think that DeGrom has surpassed Gooden (who had one mega year that people seem to hyper-focus on) . Many in NY are comparing deGrom to Seaver as the best Met pitcher of all time, and that's pushing it way too far IMO at this point.
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Deepster
Footballguy
I would agree on Johnson. Hard for me to include Clemens with all the speculation and his "miraculous" turnaround in Toronto.
Deepster
Footballguy
As of the end of last season, in 170 career starts deGrom allowed one or no runs 79 times. Going back to 2018, the leader in shutouts has either 1 or 2 shut outs in that given year. They just don't happen anymore.
Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
Clemens is a lot like Bonds in that he probably a HOFer even before he allegedly started juicing. His 86/87/90 seasons are pretty phenomenal.
Zegras11
Footballguy
need2know
Footballguy
zamboni
Footballguy
Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
Completely understand (which is why I said: I understand the game is played differently today and pitchers are just not expected to go more than 6/7 innings )
deGrom is amazing, but let's look at WAR, which love it or hate it takes into account the times they played in. I like WAR7 to compare peaks, but that wouldn't be fair to deGrom who hasn't really pitched 7 "full" seasons. So I reduced it to WAR5 and here is where deGrom fits in with the best pitcher of the last 40 years (since 1981)
1. Clemens 49.2*
2. Johnson 46.9
3. Martinez 45.8
4. Maddux 42.3
5. Halladay 39.6
6. Verlander 38.4
7. Schilling 37.7
8. Kershaw 36.3
9. J. Santana 35.6
10. Steib 35.4
11. Max Scherzer 35.2
11. Dave Steib 35.2
13. Greinke 34.7
14. Appier 34.1
15. Mussina 33.7
16. Viola 32.9
17. Langston 32.2
18. deGrom 30.7
19. F. Hernandez 29.9
20. Gooden 29.4
Even if you say, well deGrom hasn't really even had 5 "full" seasons - give him his total WAR of 38 - that averages to 37 starts a year by the way - he still is only barely at 7th place.
FYI: Seaver would have been at 42.6
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zamboni
Footballguy
Good pitcher back in the day, but never would have thought of him in this category in a million years.
Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
Surprised me too. His WAR7 was 43.1 (all in the 90s) He was a very good overlooked pitcher.
One guy I forgot was Kevin Brown - His WAR5 was 36.7 but some speculate he was roided up too.
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zamboni
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Deepster
Footballguy
So, interestingly enough, Santana is 9th on that list and I watched pretty much every start he had with the Mets. I wouldn't start him over deGrom any day of the week. I don't care what the numbers there say.
Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
He was dominant and won 2 Cy Youngs with the Twins (should have won 3). You caught him after his peak. (and his peak was pretty short)
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zamboni
Footballguy
I just checked and there is one person in the baseball forum right now during the heart of the season. And the last post on page 1 in that forum goes back to last October. Is there really one?
Penguin
Footballguy
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zamboni
Footballguy
The question I’ve always had is how did he lose 9 games that year? Only 11 unearned runs.
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Hov34
Eephus's Great Great Great Love Child
In the 10 games that the Cards lost (he got tagged with 9 of the losses) his team scored 17 runs and he gave up 22 earned runs.zamboni said:
He got beat 3 times with his team getting shut out.
But it was 1968, everyone was pitching from a 10 foot hill, so I assume there were a lot of 2-1, 1-0 games.
zamboni
Footballguy
Sounds a lot like DeGrom’s run support for the vast majority of his starts over the last 5 years.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
It's almost like these guys are so good that the hitters think they have the night off.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
jamny
Footballguy
I think deGrom has passed Gooden and the conversation with Seaver can be had but only with thinking he needs another year or 2 at this level to say he passes him. We could be witnessing it and that's what makes it so cool, imo.
HellToupee
Footballguy
jhib
Footballguy
woodstock
Footballguy
Same thing I asked. Red Sox on in the background, 1-0, bottom of the ninth, "Who pitched for the Mets? deGrom?" Sure enough.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
The General
Footballguy
Playing you in fantasy this week. Take the week off, Mr. deGrom.
zamboni
Footballguy
Not too many pitchers can go 1-3 and see their average drop by a bit.
As far as that other thing he does, it’s just otherworldly. Never have seen such consistently dominating performances by a pitcher. Far beyond even Maddux in his prime, Gooden in 1985 or Guidry in 1978. I wasn’t even born just yet, but closest I can think of is Bob Gibson in 1968.
jamny
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Did I ever tell you about the time I went horseback riding with deGrom, but there weren’t any horses around? Well, deGrom throws a saddle on my back and rides me around Wyoming for three days. Well, wouldn’t you know it, my stamina increases with each day and I develop tremendous leg muscles. So anyway, deGrom decides to enter me in the Breeders’ Cup, right, under the name Turkish Delight. And I’m running in second place, and I’m running and I break my ankle! They’re about to shoot me. Then someone from the crowd yells out, God bless him, ‘Don’t shoot him, he’s a human.'
WDIK2
Footballguy
I should not have paused so long after reading the bolded... But I did. Still a good story though.
