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*** OFFICIAL 2021 NFL Draft Thread ***


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21 hours ago, travdogg said:

Marvin Wilson might be on the all-time bad decision list for not coming out last year. He was a late 1st level prospect a year ago, now he's looking like a 6th rounder at best. At this point, this feels like an overcorrection. He had a bad 2020, but man, that 2018-2019 guy could still be in there somewhere.

Kinda surprised no Khalil Herbert yet either. I thought he was the best zone runner in the draft class. Hands were an issue, but he's a very good athlete. I thought he was a better prospect than Gainwell or Hubbard, hell arguably better than Sermon even.

 

Every player should leave early if they have a first or second round grade. It was insane that Wilson stayed. Even if he wanted to stay to be on a winning team, fsu was projected to be horrible. Still don’t understand it. 

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7 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Partly because the Pats stopped Mac Jones’s freefall. 

Had they not, there would likely have been another day 2 QB. 💡 

Day 3, not day 2. No way mac falls to round 4. 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Ah, yes. I realistically think Mac could’ve fallen to the second round though.

Yes possibly.  I think Tampa might have taken him but who knows. 

Just seems crazy that only 2 qbs were taken after the mid 3rd round. Has to be a record. 

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4 minutes ago, Blackbear said:

🤣🤣🤣🤣

It's possible.  Many teams had a 2nd round grade on him.  I think it would have been a mistake to let him fall that far, but I think it's possible. 

I would guess Washington at 19, Pitt at 24, or New Orleans at 29 would have stopped his slide though.

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34 minutes ago, Deamon said:

It's possible.  Many teams had a 2nd round grade on him.  I think it would have been a mistake to let him fall that far, but I think it's possible. 

I would guess Washington at 19, Pitt at 24, or New Orleans at 29 would have stopped his slide though.

Before the hype machine put him at 1.03 to the 49ers no one was talking about Mac as a 1st round pick. At least nothing I saw. I think I read one projection that the Bucs would take him at 32.

Mac Jones’s agent earned every single penny of his commission from that signing & then some. Masterfully played the hype game. At this point I’m positive that’s who started the “Mac Jones to the Niners at 3” rumors. 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Before the hype machine put him at 1.03 to the 49ers no one was talking about Mac as a 1st round pick. At least nothing I saw. I think I read one projection that the Bucs would take him at 32.

Mac Jones’s agent earned every single penny of his commission from that signing & then some. Masterfully played the hype game. At this point I’m positive that’s who started the “Mac Jones to the Niners at 3” rumors. 

Maybe. But I think even though WE never saw it, doesn't mean that's how NFL teams saw him. One think I learned a lot from this draft is that even top analysts don't know how actual teams feel about players (ex. JOK was mocked in round 1 of every single mock in the world. In reality, he had 0 LB scouts at his pro day, slipped to late 2nd, and prob was never going in the 1st round even though every mock had him there) 

I think Bill is also way smarter than to draft a player purely on agent hype. 

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Posted (edited)

 

Quote

 

One think I learned a lot from this draft is that even top analysts don't know how actual teams feel about players (ex. JOK was mocked in round 1 of every single mock in the world. In reality, he had 0 LB scouts at his pro day, slipped to late 2nd, and prob was never going in the 1st round even though every mock had him there) 

maybe - that could also he a byproduct of interviewing. In years past I’ve seen quite a few defensive players who were expected to be taken high fall due to questions about character, off-field stuff or just personality mismatches with prospective coaches. 

I’m not saying that’s what happened here with JOK, but sometimes the scouts are wrong & sometimes coaches just don’t like a guy. It’s happened more than once that a player falls out of the 1st for reasons we later learn have nothing to do with raw talent. So the projection may not have been wrong up until the point where no coach decided to risk a high pick on him. 

but you’re also correct that the scouts may have simply blown that one  I dunno. JOK looks plenty talented to me. 

Quote

I think Bill is also way smarter than to draft a player purely on agent hype. 

I agree with this, but there’s a “but” here as well.

What if the Pats were going to take him without teading up? Then the hype machine out him at 1.03, so BB felt like he had to move up to get him. 

He may not be so dumb as to get tricked into drafting a player on hype (and thus is BB, so I agree he’s not) but if the collective hype is pushing a player up the draft board, he is smart enough to make a deal so as to not miss him. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

maybe - that could also he a byproduct of interviewing. In years past I’ve seen quite a few defensive players who were expected to be taken high fall due to questions about character, off-field stuff or just personality mismatches with prospective coaches. 

I’m not saying that’s what happened here with JOK, but sometimes the scouts are wrong & sometimes coaches just don’t like a guy. It’s happened more than once that a player falls out of the 1st for reasons we later learn have nothing to do with raw talent. So the projection may not have been wrong up until the point where no coach decided to risk a high pick on him. 

JOK fell for the specific reason, per my Twitter feed from numerous scouts, that he's a tweener who makes splash plays but wasn't consistent but for those. The first round of the NFL apparently wasn't his gig to seize. Whereas Simmons was big enough to be a non-traditional LB and freelance around because of size and speed, JOK isn't big enough, they seemed to think. 

There weren't any character concerns with him that I heard of, and the knock on him going in -- no defined position -- proved to be his draft day downfall. 

Edited by woodstock
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, woodstock said:

JOK fell for the specific reason, per my Twitter feed from numerous scouts, that he's a tweener who makes splash plays but wasn't consistent but for those. The first round of the NFL apparently wasn't his gig to seize. Whereas Simmons was big enough to be a non-traditional LB and freelance around because of size and speed, JOK isn't big enough, they seemed to think. 

There weren't any character concerns with him that I heard of, and the knock on him going in -- no defined position -- proved to be his draft day downfall. 

Yeah, I could see that.  See, that's something I wouldn't have considered, whereas NFL scouts / team scouts may see that big picture. Other considerations might be the level of talent he was playing against on the splash plays he did make. If he was destroying lesser talent but struggling against elite players, that might also be part of the equation. 

Appreciate the specific info on JOK - I was just using him as an example because @Deamonmentioned his slide, but I was speaking more in general terms, not about JOK specifically. As I said, I had no idea why he slid. I wasn't suggesting he specifically had character concerns, just that it's something that does come up causing players to fall. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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Just now, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Yeah, I could see that.  See, that's something I wouldn't have considered, whereas NFL scouts / team scouts may see that big picture. Other considerations might be the level of talent he was playing against on the splash plays he did make. If he was destroying lesser talent but struggling against elite players, that might also be part of the equation. 

Appreciate the specific info on JOK - I was just using him as an example because @Deamonmentioned his side, but I was speaking more in general terms, not about JOK specifically. As I said, I had no idea why he slid. 

Sure thing. Just saw your response and figured I'd chime in. I was wondering about his fall, so your exchange sort of piqued my interest. 

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36 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

maybe - that could also he a byproduct of interviewing. In years past I’ve seen quite a few defensive players who were expected to be taken high fall due to questions about character, off-field stuff or just personality mismatches with prospective coaches. 

I’m not saying that’s what happened here with JOK, but sometimes the scouts are wrong & sometimes coaches just don’t like a guy. It’s happened more than once that a player falls out of the 1st for reasons we later learn have nothing to do with raw talent. So the projection may not have been wrong up until the point where no coach decided to risk a high pick on him. 

but you’re also correct that the scouts may have simply blown that one  I dunno. JOK looks plenty talented to me. 

I agree with this, but there’s a “but” here as well.

What if the Pats were going to take him without teading up? Then the hype machine out him at 1.03, so BB felt like he had to move up to get him. 

He may not be so dumb as to get tricked into drafting a player on hype (and thus is BB, so I agree he’s not) but if the collective hype is pushing a player up the draft board, he is smart enough to make a deal so as to not miss him. 

The Pats didn't trade up to get him...

 

5 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Yeah, I could see that.  See, that's something I wouldn't have considered, whereas NFL scouts / team scouts may see that big picture. Other considerations might be the level of talent he was playing against on the splash plays he did make. If he was destroying lesser talent but struggling against elite players, that might also be part of the equation. 

Appreciate the specific info on JOK - I was just using him as an example because @Deamonmentioned his side, but I was speaking more in general terms, not about JOK specifically. As I said, I had no idea why he slid. 

But that's what I mean. In jok's case, he slid because everyone in the NFL didn't see him as a first round talent. But every analyst, sports writer, etc did. 

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11 minutes ago, Deamon said:

The Pats didn't trade up to get him...

oh - doh, I was thinking about Chicago.

:doh: 

I’ve been up since 4. Brain is mush. Never mind. lol

 

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1 minute ago, woodstock said:

@Hot Sauce Guy. So Schefter reports that there might have also been a potential heart complication with JOK and his medicals, and that's why he fell, too. Interesting. This came out today. 

Aha!  Wasn’t there a blurb on sportsline or one of the sites about late breaking medical info about various players coming out just before the draft that could potentially cause players to drop? 

they didn’t name anyone but yeah - it coulda been about JOK.

good find! 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I didn't realize this is a rule and what a stupid rule.  No wonder we seen Jacksonville wait almost entire clock to take Lawrence.

 

In the Jaguars' YouTube Series The Hunt, the team offered an inside look into their war room on draft day and a misunderstanding that held up their selection of Trevor Lawrence. Per NFL rules, the Jaguars were not permitted to officially make their selection until seven of their 10 allotted minutes had passed.

The waiting, however, evidently confused Lawrence. And so when the Jaguars eventually did call, they were sent to his voicemail three times. Lawrence eventually responded to the Jaguars after he was called directly by head coach Urban Meyer.

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53 minutes ago, Dez said:

I didn't realize this is a rule and what a stupid rule.  No wonder we seen Jacksonville wait almost entire clock to take Lawrence.

 

In the Jaguars' YouTube Series The Hunt, the team offered an inside look into their war room on draft day and a misunderstanding that held up their selection of Trevor Lawrence. Per NFL rules, the Jaguars were not permitted to officially make their selection until seven of their 10 allotted minutes had passed.

The waiting, however, evidently confused Lawrence. And so when the Jaguars eventually did call, they were sent to his voicemail three times. Lawrence eventually responded to the Jaguars after he was called directly by head coach Urban Meyer.

Especially days 2 & 3, I'd like to see every pick announced within one minute of receiving it (the pick is in...).  I spent WAY too much of my life waiting on BS.

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1 hour ago, Dez said:

I didn't realize this is a rule and what a stupid rule.  No wonder we seen Jacksonville wait almost entire clock to take Lawrence.

 

In the Jaguars' YouTube Series The Hunt, the team offered an inside look into their war room on draft day and a misunderstanding that held up their selection of Trevor Lawrence. Per NFL rules, the Jaguars were not permitted to officially make their selection until seven of their 10 allotted minutes had passed.

The waiting, however, evidently confused Lawrence. And so when the Jaguars eventually did call, they were sent to his voicemail three times. Lawrence eventually responded to the Jaguars after he was called directly by head coach Urban Meyer.

 

I thought the real takeaway from that series was a few player grades we got to see the Jags assign players.

No one knows the Jags grading scale but we saw two players receive an 8. Trevor and Jaylen Waddle.

ETN got a 7 fwiw but again no one really knows what their grading scale correlates to as all teams are different. This is the same grade they gave Zach Wilson.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, menobrown said:

ETN got a 7 fwiw but again no one really knows what their grading scale correlates to as all teams are different. This is the same grade they gave Zach Wilson.

That's good for us Jets fans. Somebody else had at least an excellent first-round grade on him. Because all I've been hearing is what a bust he'll be in certain corners of the media.

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4 hours ago, rockaction said:

That's good for us Jets fans. Somebody else had at least an excellent first-round grade on him. Because all I've been hearing is what a bust he'll be in certain corners of the media.

I think there are some dubious reasons that Fields fell (a little bit) and that he may very well be the best in the class. But there seems to be this weird thing happening where it is as though it were Wilson's fault that Fields was graded incorrectly (if at all). Maybe Fields should have gone earlier. Maybe he was scouted wrong. But that has nothing to do with Wilson on his own merits. 

I would have taken Fields if I were the Jets but I would take Wilson over Lance FWIW. My preference for Fields has zero influence over whether Wilson hits or not. NYC media may not understand that.

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