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​⚽ OFFICIAL GOLD CUP THREAD: United States Beats Mexico. Again. ⚽ (2 Viewers)

So we had guessed that Dike and Zardes were unlikely to compliment each other and that came true.

But from my eyes, it appeared evident that Zardes's soccer IQ is so much higher than Dike's.  Zardes was at least trying to make runs, pull defenders, and put in his work defensively.  Dike was basically a statue all game not knowing what to do unless the ball was passed directly to him.

Obviously Zardes is the finished product at his age and Dike's clay has barely started to melt enough to mold.
Right, Dike is just so so raw whereas Zardes is a battle tested vet that actually appears to be improving which is huge for us. 

Really hoping Dike bounces back and cements his place on the WCQ roster because we need his kind of upside and physicality IMHO.

Has there been any news that came out on Dike's health/performance...he did not look right yesterday.  Zero gas.

 
It was rumored before the tournament that CCV turned down a Gold Cup call up to figure out his club situation.  That is a shame now that Zimm got hurt as he is much more Gold Cup ready than Pines is.

 
So we had guessed that Dike and Zardes were unlikely to compliment each other and that came true.

But from my eyes, it appeared evident that Zardes's soccer IQ is so much higher than Dike's.  Zardes was at least trying to make runs, pull defenders, and put in his work defensively.  Dike was basically a statue all game not knowing what to do unless the ball was passed directly to him.

Obviously Zardes is the finished product at his age and Dike's clay has barely started to melt enough to mold.
it was Dike's defensive work that really jumped out at me- really poor the entire 2nd half that I watched.

There are so many little runs that better forwards do: to shut down the ball, close passing lanes, provide cover, force the attack one way or the other, recognize the impending double team, etc, etc... he did bupkis. I mean- those are the kinds of runs that even a tired guy can do just to try to help his team out. Zardes does all of that really well, as does Sargent. Not doing it exposed and kept his team under pressure and quite frankly screwed a lot of his team-mates who were trying to bust their asses to make the first or second defensive run banking on him doing his part.

 
It was rumored before the tournament that CCV turned down a Gold Cup call up to figure out his club situation.  That is a shame now that Zimm got hurt as he is much more Gold Cup ready than Pines is.
Can't blame CCV here.   Especially if he was getting pressure from the club which I suspect.   

 
Saw this earlier and reread it just now to confirm that I don't disagree with a word of it.

Right on across the board IMO.  I might start with Hoppe on one wing instead of Roldan, but that's splitting hairs.

We're fairly fortunate in that these games are giving us such clean reads on everything.  There hasn't been a lot of ambiguity despite the small sample sizes. 

The only thing I can think of that's a little muddier than a week ago is maybe Acosta -- who after a run of 4 or 5 good appearances was not great vs Martinique or Canada.

 
Has there been any news that came out on Dike's health/performance...he did not look right yesterday.  Zero gas.
yeah- we both (and I'm sure we're not alone) saw that yesterday. 

but even with zero gas, per my previous post, he was awful doing what he could/should have been doing.

 
Has there been any news that came out on Dike's health/performance...he did not look right yesterday.  Zero gas.
His energy level all game was extremely concerning to me.    But I have to think he was healthy (at least up until he hurt his own shoulder with the over exaggeration of the eye poke), because GGG surprisingly subbed out Zardes instead of Dike.

 
it was Dike's defensive work that really jumped out at me- really poor the entire 2nd half that I watched.

There are so many little runs that better forwards do: to shut down the ball, close passing lanes, provide cover, force the attack one way or the other, recognize the impending double team, etc, etc... he did bupkis. I mean- those are the kinds of runs that even a tired guy can do just to try to help his team out. Zardes does all of that really well, as does Sargent. Not doing it exposed and kept his team under pressure and quite frankly screwed a lot of his team-mates who were trying to bust their asses to make the first or second defensive run banking on him doing his part.
I think that's a place where all that muscle really hurts him -- he's just never going to cover as much ground at that weight.  Not saying he can't do better or that his instincts are good, just that "work rate" or miles run probably aren't going to be among his strengths.

 
yeah- we both (and I'm sure we're not alone) saw that yesterday. 

but even with zero gas, per my previous post, he was awful doing what he could/should have been doing.
A little bizarre, but I'm sure he's being coached up, particularly on the defensive side.  He's incredibly raw and drinking through a firehose right now in terms of learning the game.

 
Saw this earlier and reread it just now to confirm that I don't disagree with a word of it.

Right on across the board IMO.  I might start with Hoppe on one wing instead of Roldan, but that's splitting hairs.

We're fairly fortunate in that these games are giving us such clean reads on everything.  There hasn't been a lot of ambiguity despite the small sample sizes. 

The only thing I can think of that's a little muddier than a week ago is maybe Acosta -- who after a run of 4 or 5 good appearances was not great vs Martinique or Canada.
agree all the way.

he wasn't tip-top yesterday, but I liked what Hoppe brought when he came on. Good skills, good ability to win and hold the ball (which the US sorely needed) and then try to advance it (which the US sorely needed). he lost the ball at times making dribble instead of pass decisions- but overall it felt like watching Deuce... which the US sorely needs.

Roldan and Acosta... I'm ok losing either one of them (probably Roldan- short leash on Acosta if he's not up to it) and starting Hoppe on the field to try ####.

 
This is a good read from Doyle which focuses on what we have learned in the first round about the team, as well as how unbalanced the team is from a roster stand point (something we keep harping on too).

He gives his starting lineup for the quarter finals and it looks fine reading from the back out until you get to the wings and you realize how screwed up things are.

Anyways, worth a read if you have a few minutes.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/what-we-learned-from-the-usmnt-gold-cup-group-stage-showing
Great read. Agreed 100%. We said almost all of that here too.  I didn't see Miles as exceptionally as he did but will definitely be paying more attention now.

 
His energy level all game was extremely concerning to me.    But I have to think he was healthy (at least up until he hurt his own shoulder with the over exaggeration of the eye poke), because GGG surprisingly subbed out Zardes instead of Dike.
I wonder if he's just not in tournament shape.  May be better off starting Zardes and using Dike as a sub if needed.   Tough call when we need to get him experience for the ocho.

 
I think that's a place where all that muscle really hurts him -- he's just never going to cover as much ground at that weight.  Not saying he can't do better or that his instincts are good, just that "work rate" or miles run probably aren't going to be among his strengths.
disagree. I'm not expecting him to be a Tevez or Kuyt out there, but he just wasn't making the runs- even short ones. either he doesn't know how to do this or was choosing not to- for whatever reason. 

 
Agree with this.  Given what I've seen from Canada so far in this tourney, they're the new "scary" team in CONCACAF.  I would be ecstatic to get 4 points from them in qualifying.  
I am going to be very interested to see if they can figure out a 3-5-2

They have two legit stud strikers (Concacaf wise) in Larin and David while Buchanan and Davies appear to be absolutely perfect for the wing backs in a 3-5-2.  Both have unlimited speed with the ball and solid offensive chops while having enough experience as fullbacks as well.

 
Roldan at wing in particular is concerning.  Lletget may be able to hold his own depending on the matchup.

It would be great for Acosta to show well...I think the biggest disappointment this tournament has been the midfield depth.   We could have a potential hole there heading into the ocho(as implied by others)

 
For the upcoming World Cup qualifiers, can I assume our “A” team will be present for those? (Pulisic, Sargent, etc)

 
It is going to be interesting in a few months to evaluate whether the decision to give the A teamers a break during the Gold Cup was more important than having them play together again before the qualifiers...

 
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It is going to be interesting in a few months to evaluate whether the decision to give the A teamers a break during the Gold Cup was more important than having them play together again before the qualifiers...
I'm convinced this was the right decision.   I'm as critical of US Soccer as anyone, but am fully onboard with the B team concept for the Gold Cup.   It's going to pay huge dividends when/if we have injuries in both the WCQ and WC.  Our A team appears to be head and shoulders above most of the ocho so the risk is mitigated.   Also, I think the break was important for many of the A teamers.

 
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I mentioned this at the beginning of the game last night.   The ELS fans are absolutely jacked for their underdog team.  

I don't know how they intend to do the tickets if the ELS game is in DC but I am bracing for one of the largest % non partisan crowds ever for a US game in the states (and that includes the 85%+ Mexican heavy games played in LA against the US).

====================================

herculez gomez

@herculezg

First time I’ve ever seen Mexico not be the overwhelming “home” team in the Western United States. Hugo Perez has a whole nation believing in what he’s selling.

 
 Our A team appears to be head and shoulders above the rest of the ocho so the risk is mitigated.   
I need some of your confidence. :)

We barely, and I mean BARELY beat both Honduras and Mexico, AT HOME, during Nations League.  I don't know if I can make myself believe we are head and shoulders above every one in the ocho.

I hope it comes true!!  :heart:

 
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I need some of your confidence. :)

We barely, and I mean BARELY beat both Honduras and Mexico, AT HOME, during Nations League.  I don't know if I can make myself believe we are head and shoulders above every one else.

I hope it comes true!!  :heart:
I edited it to say "most of the ocho".   Mexico certainly close to our level.  

 
Three deep at every position (my taek/guess only):

  • Sargent, Pefok, Dike
  • Pulisic, Aaronson, Hoppe
  • Reyna, Weah, Clark
  • McKennie, Lletget, Williamson
  • Musah, Acosta, LDLT
  • Adams, Sands, Busio
  • Dest, Robinson, Vines
  • Brooks, Richards, Robinson
  • McKenzie, Zimmerman, Miazga
  • Cannon, Reynolds, Yedlin
  • Steffan, Horvath, Turner
 
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Three deep at every position (my taek/guess only):

  • Sargent, Pefok, Dike
  • Pulisic, Aaronson, Hoppe
  • Reyna, Weah, Clark
  • McKennie, Lletget, Williamson
  • Musah, Acosta, LDLT
  • Adams, Sands, Busio
  • Dest, Robinson, Vines
  • Brooks, Richards, Robinson
  • McKenzie, Zimmerman, Miazga
  • Cannon, Reynolds, Yedlin
  • Steffan, Horvath, Turner
Great list!

There is a 90% or greater chance for me that the 23 for the WCQiers in Sept will come from these 33. 

One possible player who might sneak in is Zardes ahead of Pefok.  I can't get a read on GGG at to whom he prefers

I do think though that Moore has likely jumped in front of Reynolds too at least in GGG's eyes. 

 
Three deep at every position (my taek/guess only):

  • Sargent, Pefok, Dike
  • Pulisic, Aaronson, Hoppe
  • Reyna, Weah, Clark
  • McKennie, Lletget, Williamson
  • Musah, Acosta, LDLT
  • Adams, Sands, Busio
  • Dest, Robinson, Vines
  • Brooks, Richards, Robinson
  • McKenzie, Zimmerman, Miazga
  • Cannon, Reynolds, Yedlin
  • Steffan, Horvath, Turner
I like that list.

To be honest, the one guy who concerns me on that list is Steffan. I don't know why, but for some reason he makes me real uncomfortable with him back in goal. Much more than Horvath or Turner. 

There's something about his make-up that does it for me. Not sure what it is.

 
I like that list.

To be honest, the one guy who concerns me on that list is Steffan. I don't know why, but for some reason he makes me real uncomfortable with him back in goal. Much more than Horvath or Turner. 

There's something about his make-up that does it for me. Not sure what it is.
He's been damn erratic.  I'm not sold yet either.

 
He's been damn erratic.  I'm not sold yet either.


I like that list.

To be honest, the one guy who concerns me on that list is Steffan. I don't know why, but for some reason he makes me real uncomfortable with him back in goal. Much more than Horvath or Turner. 

There's something about his make-up that does it for me. Not sure what it is.
I really hope Horvath has a chance to start. He would be my choice based on that 1 game alone. Ice in his veins. And his distribution has stood out significantly better than Steffen's.

 
Three deep at every position (my taek/guess only):

  • Sargent, Pefok, Dike
  • Pulisic, Aaronson, Hoppe
  • Reyna, Weah, Clark
  • McKennie, Lletget, Williamson
  • Musah, Acosta, LDLT
  • Adams, Sands, Busio
  • Dest, Robinson, Vines
  • Brooks, Richards, Robinson
  • McKenzie, Zimmerman, Miazga
  • Cannon, Reynolds, Yedlin
  • Steffan, Horvath, Turner
I think you have to list Dest in the RB list as well. I think he's more likely to play there and Robinson start on the left.

 
ChiefD said:
I like that list.

To be honest, the one guy who concerns me on that list is Steffan. I don't know why, but for some reason he makes me real uncomfortable with him back in goal. Much more than Horvath or Turner. 

There's something about his make-up that does it for me. Not sure what it is.
I don't have any fears regarding Steffen.  Number 1.... Pep would never go into a season with a #2 GK that he doesn't trust.  If Pep trusts Steffen, then I do as well.  

Number 2....  He's by far our most vocal GK.  It's a skill that's underappreciated, but it was one of Howard's best traits.  Being able to communicate with the backline to keep them together as a unit is a huge deal and one of Steffen's pluses.  

Number 3....  While we haven't had that "it" moment for Steffan on the USMNT, he's had multiple great games for City in their Cup games last year. 

I'm not convinced by Turner.   He's looked shaky to me and his distribution is worse than Steffen's.  Horvath looked great in his sub appearance, although he gave up a goal that I fully believe Steffen would've stopped. He also saved a couple that I don't know if Steffen would've gotten to.  Horvath needs real meaningful minutes before I'd be willing to give him the #1.

 
This is as good a stat as any as to why we were over run in the midfield last night

==========================

OneGoal

@OneGoalUS

A pretty telling stat from tonight’s game. In the 15 minutes he was on the pitch, Matthew Hoppe won as many duels as Kellyn Acosta and Gianluca Busio combined during the entire game.

 
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I have not see in this.  In three games his hands have been flawless to my eyes.

I do agree he does not instill a ton of confidence with his feet.
That's more what I meant.  He doesn't "feel" confident back there although he seems to save every ball that he can reach.  Probably just his mannerisms, but something doesn't sit right with me.  

 
That's more what I meant.  He doesn't "feel" confident back there although he seems to save every ball that he can reach.  Probably just his mannerisms, but something doesn't sit right with me.  
My operating theory is the mannerisms somehow are him anticipating action better than most and getting into marginally better shot stopping positions.  

It's also nice to see everyone on the Sands bandwagon.  We've quickly gone from a 2-seat Yugo to luxury RV.  

 
OK lets have some fun speculating:

Assume Zimm, Nips and Dike are out for good(no real news on any of them so just play along). 

 Whom do you replace them with from the provisional roster?https://mcusercontent.com/78d3589fb61466b549ff752e5/files/41732c7a-5319-fd6c-8648-65e8e1b78706/Group_B.pdf

I would go Tustry/Kessler for Zimm, Clark if healthy for Nips, else Cowell, and Pepi for Dike.
I would bring in another winger for Dike. No reason to perpetuate the roster mistakes if given a chance to fix it.

 
Are we even allowed to replace injured players? I thought the mid tournament roster changes stopped being a thing

 
OK lets have some fun speculating:

Assume Zimm, Nips and Dike are out for good(no real news on any of them so just play along). 

 Whom do you replace them with from the provisional roster?https://mcusercontent.com/78d3589fb61466b549ff752e5/files/41732c7a-5319-fd6c-8648-65e8e1b78706/Group_B.pdf

I would go Tustry/Kessler for Zimm, Clark if healthy for Nips, else Cowell, and Pepi for Dike.
Surprised to see Clark over Cowell. Is Clark just more of a winger?
 

agree with everyone who thinks Dike was off. He looks like he needs a vacation 

 

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