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Jonas Gray (RB - New England) (1 Viewer)

Gray was on a bad knee and only did the bench at the combine (20 reps). I'd take 31 a few weeks later with a big grain of salt.

Regardless of what Blount's role ends up being (local media are saying he's strictly a backup at this point), Gray's a hammer and Blount, despite his size, is not.

Blount's a good runner, but he uses his (outstanding) vision like a small back -- and stays patient until a hole opens. That's why he's always been miscast as a short-yardage back. He runs like a smaller guy.

OTOH, Gray seems to take the ball and blasts into the hole whether it's there or not. Totally different styles IMO.
What does a bad knee have to do with his bench reps?

If he didn't run the 40, why does it show him with a 40 time?

You're saying Blount has outstanding vision & runs like a small back, but the other poster seems to think Gray is more agile.

All I know is what I've watched, and that is that Gray didn't seem to have any "wiggle" at all. He hit the hole if it was there or wasn't, and he didn't avoid tacklers, he tried to run through them. Maybe that was because he knew that Indy's rush D was weak & against other opponents, he will bust out the agility mentioned in the other post, but I haven't seen it yet.

 
Gray was on a bad knee and only did the bench at the combine (20 reps). I'd take 31 a few weeks later with a big grain of salt.

Regardless of what Blount's role ends up being (local media are saying he's strictly a backup at this point), Gray's a hammer and Blount, despite his size, is not.

Blount's a good runner, but he uses his (outstanding) vision like a small back -- and stays patient until a hole opens. That's why he's always been miscast as a short-yardage back. He runs like a smaller guy.

OTOH, Gray seems to take the ball and blasts into the hole whether it's there or not. Totally different styles IMO.
What does a bad knee have to do with his bench reps?

If he didn't run the 40, why does it show him with a 40 time?

You're saying Blount has outstanding vision & runs like a small back, but the other poster seems to think Gray is more agile.

All I know is what I've watched, and that is that Gray didn't seem to have any "wiggle" at all. He hit the hole if it was there or wasn't, and he didn't avoid tacklers, he tried to run through them. Maybe that was because he knew that Indy's rush D was weak & against other opponents, he will bust out the agility mentioned in the other post, but I haven't seen it yet.
Nothing. But I'd put a lot more stock in the 20 reps he did at the combine instead of the "31" he did at his pro day.

It's an estimate. He never ran.

Blount runs looking for holes, he doesn't make his own.

Your squabbling has got nothing to do with me.

 
LOL!

"ESPN Boston expects a "different offensive approach" out of the Patriots in Sunday's Week 12 game against the Lions.

Recent Patriot gameplans when facing the Colts have been to smash them in the mouth with power runs. That is not going to work against a Lions defense that leads the league in rush yards allowed per game (68.8), YPC allowed (3.03) and is tied for second in touchdowns allowed (4). It's risky to project Bill Belichick's thoughts, but this certainly feels like a Shane Vereen game. Gray is more risky RB2 than many think off his four-touchdown outburst."

Ya don't say? It is a new week after all. Chase those points fellas!
LOL. You really think we should be listening to your advice after last week?

If you are stuck having to start a NE RB then you are in serious doo-doo. Who wants to chase the points and rack your brain trying to figure out who to start? And often, it doesn't matter who you start...you aren't going to get starter points. Unless you are in the deepest of leagues a NE RB is not worth starting. I'm in a 32 team ppr league with deep rosters, I have Vereen and even he has been a disappointment. Behind the likes of Matt Asiata, Chris Ivory, Jeremy Hill, and Lamar Miller.

Ridley had two games this year where he notched over 20 carries. Week 2 (or 3) and 5 I believe. Since then, each RB has been sprinkled in a little.

It's not worth it just so you can come on here and say: "I started such and such NE RB this week and he scored 18 points! I told you so."

It's a total crapshoot and only worth it if you have zero other options.

Most people in here are in what...10 to 12 team leagues? LaFell, Edelman, and any NE RB probably aren't even in starting lineups in those types of leagues. UNLESS you have deep starting lineups.

For example, in my 12 team redraft with basic PPR scoring (not a lot of variables), out of Vereen, Lafell, Edelman, and Gray, ONLY Lafell is rostered and he's on the bench.

I don't have access to any of my standard scoring leagues at the moment, but I would bet that the outcome would be the same.

But seems to me you'd be pretty "clueless" if you did start them.
It takes some pretty big balls to be so emphatic about something, be completely and totally wrong about it, and then come back the following week and be emphatic again.
I repeat..."LOL!". You got lucky and out of desperation of not having any other options, trotted Gray out there and he had the game of his career. He'll probably never be heard from again and ride off into the sunset after this year. Good for you and good for Jonas Gray. Good for anyone that started him as a shot in the dark.

But the moral of the story here is that there still isn't a single NE back you can start on a weekly basis with any confidence. Sure, people are saying this week will be Vereen's week. I'm not buying that at all. Once Belicheck gets wind that that is the expected outcome, he'll trot Bolden or White out there just to say nobody dictates what he does. Hell, I wouldn't put it past Belicheck to pick up Blount again or Tate, roll him out there for 20 carries this week, then turn around and cut them after this week.

If you have Vereen, it probably means you overpaid for him and are forced to hold him, or you have no other valid options due to injuries or underperforming. He's pretty much the only one that has a decent shot of putting up 5 points for you on a weekly basis. That's about as "consistent" as it gets for NE backs.

I'm not hating, just reiterating my point that the NE backfield is nothing more than a headache and isn't worth the constant struggle of trying to figure out who will get the points any given week.
LOL! CALLED IT! (giving myself a General Tso style pat on the back) :bowtie:
You should! That was one heckuva call. I thought I remembered someone saying that in here, and lo and behold - there it was. Good on ya mate.Any way you slice it this is not good for Gray. I would have loved to have seen what might have been if he were the only true running back on the team. But I can't say I disagree with it from BB's standpoint. Spread the risk / hedge your bet...

 
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Gray was on a bad knee and only did the bench at the combine (20 reps). I'd take 31 a few weeks later with a big grain of salt.

Regardless of what Blount's role ends up being (local media are saying he's strictly a backup at this point), Gray's a hammer and Blount, despite his size, is not.

Blount's a good runner, but he uses his (outstanding) vision like a small back -- and stays patient until a hole opens. That's why he's always been miscast as a short-yardage back. He runs like a smaller guy.

OTOH, Gray seems to take the ball and blasts into the hole whether it's there or not. Totally different styles IMO.
What does a bad knee have to do with his bench reps?

If he didn't run the 40, why does it show him with a 40 time?

You're saying Blount has outstanding vision & runs like a small back, but the other poster seems to think Gray is more agile.

All I know is what I've watched, and that is that Gray didn't seem to have any "wiggle" at all. He hit the hole if it was there or wasn't, and he didn't avoid tacklers, he tried to run through them. Maybe that was because he knew that Indy's rush D was weak & against other opponents, he will bust out the agility mentioned in the other post, but I haven't seen it yet.
Nothing. But I'd put a lot more stock in the 20 reps he did at the combine instead of the "31" he did at his pro day.

It's an estimate. He never ran.

Blount runs looking for holes, he doesn't make his own.

Your squabbling has got nothing to do with me.
Not squabbling, just responding to your post.

Obviously I mis-read your comment about the bench, I thought you were suggesting the 20 reps was due to his knee issue.

I have only watched Gray in 3 games. I'm not inclined to use college highlight reels to evaluate a player, as they are usually just RBs running through holes the size of a mini-van untouched. So, from what I've seen, Gray is a "pounder," not an agile RB as the other poster suggested.

 
Jonas Gray gets the recognition and the gameball and the highlights and the Sports Illustrated cover. And Gray, who racked up 100 yards after contact against the Colts, no doubt deserves it all.

Overshadowed in the breakout game was the return of rookie lineman Cameron Fleming, who the Patriots had utilized as an extra tight end in Weeks 1-3 before he was promoted to starting right guard in Week 4. In that game at Kansas City, Fleming suffered a finger injury that kept him out until this Week 11 win over Indianapolis.

The 6-foot-6, 320-pound tackle out of Stanford was excellent from the very first snap (seen below) to the end. He limped off the field following a Gray run just before the two-minute warning, and it appeared the training staff examined his left leg.
The Fleming Formation
Ok...small sample size I know, but I haven't seen any other cut-ups of the game (don't have access to as much from my work PC). But to get back to your previous comment about how it's easier said than done when defending a "balanced" formation...

When looking at the 3 cuts from the Colts/Pats game from the link you provided:

In the first one it would be a strong right call (defenses right). The O-line was balanced with Gronk on one side and Fleming on the other (7 man line), but they had the twins formation on the defensive right side thus making the defenses right the strong side. Gray runs to that strong side during the play.

In the 2nd cut, there were 4 linemen (including Gronk) on the defenses LEFT side. So that tells me they either had an additional lineman (Fleming) or an additional TE on that side. Looks like they had Fleming on the line with Gronk a step back at the end of the line. Looks like a strong LEFT call for the defense in that case due to the extra lineman AND Gronk. Gray runs to the defenses left on that play.

In the 3rd cut, we can't see where the WRs are from that camera angle, but you can see it is the balanced 7 man line with Gronk and the defenses right and Fleming on the defenses left. Since in the 1st cut, the WRs were on Flemings side, I'm gonna assume the WRs are on Fleming's side again in this case...which would be the defenses left. Making it a strong left defensive call. Gray runs to the defenses left on that play.

All I can do is assume that is the way it was all game until I can rewatch it and pay more attention. But what is so difficult about those formations and not being able to figure out the strong side? You give these NFL clowns way to much credit. Too often they stick with their formations and the defensive philosophy since that is all they know instead of making simple adjustments during the game. If I were a D-lineman, it wouldn't take me too long to figure that out. But I guess they are told not to think for themselves and "just stick with what you've been taught". Pagano or his D-coordinator should have made an adjustment. They did not. And they got dusted for over 200 rushing yards with 201 of those coming from one, non-spectacular back.

I reiterate...PATHETIC!

 
that's fair enough, but what's the adjustment?

there's such a thing as just getting beat.

it's easy to make a lot of these kind of nebulous criticisms after the fact, but what would you have done differently, and what would the pats have taken advantage of in that case?

 
that's fair enough, but what's the adjustment?

there's such a thing as just getting beat.

it's easy to make a lot of these kind of nebulous criticisms after the fact, but what would you have done differently, and what would the pats have taken advantage of in that case?
I would have used slants/stunts/blitzes to the strong side. Not saying they would have worked. But at least would have tried to exploit it. And I'm not saying NE couldn't still have blocked it, but it should have at least made it a little more difficult for NE...I mean they are all "professionals" right? Colts D isn't very good so NE could still have gashed them. But it just makes me shake my head when I see fundamentally bad football from "professionals".

When I coached, I liked a lot of misdirection plays. I would have ran counters with various motions...perhaps option plays. Parts in motion tend to confuse defenses. NE just played smash mouth with extra linemen and beat Indy up.

 
Here we ago again, I remember people in the Bell thread thinking this guy would have an impact oh him. Yeah, they were wrong. Those same people thinking he will have an impact in NE is wrong too. How many teams were going to sign Blount? One, a team that he knew the system and needs depth. He is not good and he is a head case. Provides very little value to any NFL team.
good point. Those Patriots never seem to know what they're doing.

 
My prediction: BB lists Gray as questionable, with some vague injury description, reports surface about Blount looking great at practice today, then Gray starts the game, but Bolden gets 25 carries, 140 yards, and a TD.

 
Bayhawks said:
My prediction: BB lists Gray as questionable, with some vague injury description, reports surface about Blount looking great at practice today, then Gray starts the game, but Bolden gets 25 carries, 140 yards, and a TD.
I was just going to post the same thing except I was going to use James White instead of Bolden since White hasn't done much all season. It would be just like the Patriots to use someone that a person wasn't expecting, lol.

 
Bayhawks said:
My prediction: BB lists Gray as questionable, with some vague injury description, reports surface about Blount looking great at practice today, then Gray starts the game, but Bolden gets 25 carries, 140 yards, and a TD.
zero chance vs. Detroit.

 
I've got to eat crow on this one. Looks right now like Gray is not going to be the impact fantasy player I thought he'd be. Apologies to Bayhawk and Warpig.

Weird that he wasn't at practice today. I'd have to think he's injured. Whether it's physical or emotional remains to be seen.

 
I've got to eat crow on this one. Looks right now like Gray is not going to be the impact fantasy player I thought he'd be. Apologies to Bayhawk and Warpig.

Weird that he wasn't at practice today. I'd have to think he's injured. Whether it's physical or emotional remains to be seen.
Me too, at least this season. I still think he has upside in dynasty. But it now appears possible that the Blount signing may have had to do with Gray being hurt. If he is hurt and someone else starts producing, he could be back to the end of the line.

 
ESPN Boston's Mike Reiss reports Jonas Gray was not permitted to practice on Friday because he showed up late to the Patriots' facility.

 
ESPN Boston's Mike Reiss reports Jonas Gray was not permitted to practice on Friday because he showed up late to the Patriots' facility.
Hmmm.

Didn't the same thing happen to Revis or LaFell earlier this year?

I don't think it cost them any playing time, though, did it?

 
Uggggg bad move Gray.....Bill's dog house is a place where RBs go to die :D

Maybe he is smart and knows the Lions Def will expose his mediocre talent so he did in on purpose :D

 
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Have some respect for da 4 TD game brutha! :doh: This could be the biggest rise and fall in the history of the game.

 
ESPN Boston's Mike Reiss reports Jonas Gray was not permitted to practice on Friday because he showed up late to the Patriots' facility.
Hmmm.

Didn't the same thing happen to Revis or LaFell earlier this year?

I don't think it cost them any playing time, though, did it?
This is good news--an injury would be far worse. I doubt this costs him much PT and I read elsewhere that BB said Blount was not brought in to replace Gray and Gray would be the starter.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/11/20/legarrette-blount-gives-patriots-depth-for-season-stretch-run/wLEjmuk2ByOY2xw2BnZs5L/story.html

 
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FOX Sports' Mike Garofolo reports Jonas Gray was late to the Patriots' facility on Friday because he overslept.
Per Garofolo, Gray's "phone died," which he was ostensibly relying upon as an alarm. He drove straight to Gillette Stadium, but was promptly sent home by the Patriots' coaching staff. Garofolo reports Gray has texted teammates to apologize, including Tom Brady. He is "hoping" to get Bill Belichick to hear his side of the story "this afternoon." We wish young Jonas the best of luck.



 
ESPN Boston's Mike Reiss reports Jonas Gray was not permitted to practice on Friday because he showed up late to the Patriots' facility.
Hmmm.

Didn't the same thing happen to Revis or LaFell earlier this year?

I don't think it cost them any playing time, though, did it?
This is good news--an injury would be far worse. I doubt this costs him much PT and I read elsewhere that BB said Blount was not brought in to replace Gray and Gray would be the starter.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/11/20/legarrette-blount-gives-patriots-depth-for-season-stretch-run/wLEjmuk2ByOY2xw2BnZs5L/story.html
Well, to be fair, he might not get the start. And if someone like White or Bolden or Blount get rolling, we might not see Gray this week.

 
Do we like Vereen vs. Detroit? Seems like traditional running will be a bad idea, need lots of consistent pass blocking and quick dump offs to counter the Detroit rush?

 
FOX Sports' Mike Garofolo reports Jonas Gray was late to the Patriots' facility on Friday because he overslept.
Per Garofolo, Gray's "phone died," which he was ostensibly relying upon as an alarm. He drove straight to Gillette Stadium, but was promptly sent home by the Patriots' coaching staff. Garofolo reports Gray has texted teammates to apologize, including Tom Brady. He is "hoping" to get Bill Belichick to hear his side of the story "this afternoon." We wish young Jonas the best of luck.
Oooof. BB don't play around with this type of stuff...especially from a younger player...unless your name is Tom Brady. We may never hear from Gray again.

:missing:

 
how could a young player knowing darn well how strict Bellichick is, not have at least 2 alarms going off.

Leave it to my iphone?...dumb

 
Jonas Gray @jgray_ND25

Example of how fast people can turn their back on you. That's just life tho! Either way I just keep it moving and grind harder. Nothing new!

:shakes head:

 

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