Poll: Voter ID? (2 Viewers)

[SaintsInDome2006]

As for the voter ID cards, Louisiana uses this method. I get one like everyone else here.

We get green voter identification cards, it shows precinct, district, home address, and that kind of thing. No photo. You can provide this when you go to vote in lieu of a driver's license or state photo ID.

Every person on the rolls gets a card; if you're not on the rolls you don't get a card. Voter signs in just like everyone else. This takes care of elderly people who don't have DL's for instance.

Seems pretty simple. - Though I would guess that LA is probably one of the states that rank high on voter fraud, if such things are looked at independently. I just don't have a problem with this system as a matter of principle, I guess because I think it has more to do with our political culture than our system.

I do believe whether individuals do vote is tracked, because when politicians run for office every so often there's an accusation that one hasn't voted in so many elections.

Nothing I have read from you or the article I linked or a few other articles I read to respond to you suggest that in implementation the Louisiana "voter id" law is any different than non voter id states other than asking for id. Maybe in the nitty gritty there are other details that differ, but at the end of the day it seems like you just need to sign that you are who you say you are without the need for the ID to vote. If that is true no one is really answering your questions because there is no difference. I think this is also why you don't see the challenges to your state's law - at least high profile ones.

So why do they ask for my ID when I go to vote?

 

[jonessed]

As for the voter ID cards, Louisiana uses this method. I get one like everyone else here.

We get green voter identification cards, it shows precinct, district, home address, and that kind of thing. No photo. You can provide this when you go to vote in lieu of a driver's license or state photo ID.

Every person on the rolls gets a card; if you're not on the rolls you don't get a card. Voter signs in just like everyone else. This takes care of elderly people who don't have DL's for instance.

Seems pretty simple. - Though I would guess that LA is probably one of the states that rank high on voter fraud, if such things are looked at independently. I just don't have a problem with this system as a matter of principle, I guess because I think it has more to do with our political culture than our system.

I do believe whether individuals do vote is tracked, because when politicians run for office every so often there's an accusation that one hasn't voted in so many elections.

Nothing I have read from you or the article I linked or a few other articles I read to respond to you suggest that in implementation the Louisiana "voter id" law is any different than non voter id states other than asking for id. Maybe in the nitty gritty there are other details that differ, but at the end of the day it seems like you just need to sign that you are who you say you are without the need for the ID to vote. If that is true no one is really answering your questions because there is no difference. I think this is also why you don't see the challenges to your state's law - at least high profile ones.

So why do they ask for my ID when I go to vote?

They're just being friendly.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

As for the voter ID cards, Louisiana uses this method. I get one like everyone else here.

We get green voter identification cards, it shows precinct, district, home address, and that kind of thing. No photo. You can provide this when you go to vote in lieu of a driver's license or state photo ID.

Every person on the rolls gets a card; if you're not on the rolls you don't get a card. Voter signs in just like everyone else. This takes care of elderly people who don't have DL's for instance.

Seems pretty simple. - Though I would guess that LA is probably one of the states that rank high on voter fraud, if such things are looked at independently. I just don't have a problem with this system as a matter of principle, I guess because I think it has more to do with our political culture than our system.

I do believe whether individuals do vote is tracked, because when politicians run for office every so often there's an accusation that one hasn't voted in so many elections.

Nothing I have read from you or the article I linked or a few other articles I read to respond to you suggest that in implementation the Louisiana "voter id" law is any different than non voter id states other than asking for id. Maybe in the nitty gritty there are other details that differ, but at the end of the day it seems like you just need to sign that you are who you say you are without the need for the ID to vote. If that is true no one is really answering your questions because there is no difference. I think this is also why you don't see the challenges to your state's law - at least high profile ones.

So why do they ask for my ID when I go to vote?

That is the only difference. When you say you don't have one then based on what you wrote and what I read elsewhere (meaning I could be wrong about your state) the system is pretty much functionally reverts to being the same as anywhere else that doesn't ask for ID,

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

... If you think it's "extreme" that I think we should have legit identification (beyond the veil of the honor system) for one of the cornerstones of our democratic process, sobeit. In my state, we have databases full of fingerprints. I don't really get the "fear" of another for voting...heck, they could probably tap into an existing one and not reinvent the wheel.

Why don't we just tattoo bar codes on voters? Or, inject a RFID implant? Take a DNA swab?

You can't see how such databases would be every bit as much opportunity for government abuse as say a registry of gun owners? Or "meta data" from cell phone calls and e-mails?

 

[Koya]

As for the voter ID cards, Louisiana uses this method. I get one like everyone else here.

We get green voter identification cards, it shows precinct, district, home address, and that kind of thing. No photo. You can provide this when you go to vote in lieu of a driver's license or state photo ID.

Every person on the rolls gets a card; if you're not on the rolls you don't get a card. Voter signs in just like everyone else. This takes care of elderly people who don't have DL's for instance.

Seems pretty simple. - Though I would guess that LA is probably one of the states that rank high on voter fraud, if such things are looked at independently. I just don't have a problem with this system as a matter of principle, I guess because I think it has more to do with our political culture than our system.

I do believe whether individuals do vote is tracked, because when politicians run for office every so often there's an accusation that one hasn't voted in so many elections.

Nothing I have read from you or the article I linked or a few other articles I read to respond to you suggest that in implementation the Louisiana "voter id" law is any different than non voter id states other than asking for id. Maybe in the nitty gritty there are other details that differ, but at the end of the day it seems like you just need to sign that you are who you say you are without the need for the ID to vote. If that is true no one is really answering your questions because there is no difference. I think this is also why you don't see the challenges to your state's law - at least high profile ones.

So why do they ask for my ID when I go to vote?

That is the only difference. When you say you don't have one then based on what you wrote and what I read elsewhere (meaning I could be wrong about your state) the system is pretty much functionally reverts to being the same as anywhere else that doesn't ask for ID,

So, problem solved?

Voter ID for voters with ID. No voter ID for those without.

Simple enough

 

[Joe Summer]

They should issue IDs at the voting booth. Problem solved.

 

[MaxThreshold]

As for the voter ID cards, Louisiana uses this method. I get one like everyone else here.

We get green voter identification cards, it shows precinct, district, home address, and that kind of thing. No photo. You can provide this when you go to vote in lieu of a driver's license or state photo ID.

Every person on the rolls gets a card; if you're not on the rolls you don't get a card. Voter signs in just like everyone else. This takes care of elderly people who don't have DL's for instance.

Seems pretty simple. - Though I would guess that LA is probably one of the states that rank high on voter fraud, if such things are looked at independently. I just don't have a problem with this system as a matter of principle, I guess because I think it has more to do with our political culture than our system.

I do believe whether individuals do vote is tracked, because when politicians run for office every so often there's an accusation that one hasn't voted in so many elections.

Nothing I have read from you or the article I linked or a few other articles I read to respond to you suggest that in implementation the Louisiana "voter id" law is any different than non voter id states other than asking for id. Maybe in the nitty gritty there are other details that differ, but at the end of the day it seems like you just need to sign that you are who you say you are without the need for the ID to vote. If that is true no one is really answering your questions because there is no difference. I think this is also why you don't see the challenges to your state's law - at least high profile ones.

So why do they ask for my ID when I go to vote?

That is the only difference. When you say you don't have one then based on what you wrote and what I read elsewhere (meaning I could be wrong about your state) the system is pretty much functionally reverts to being the same as anywhere else that doesn't ask for ID,

So, problem solved?

Voter ID for voters with ID. No voter ID for those without.

Simple enough

What if it's a Union vote? Do I need ID then?

 

[The Commish]

... If you think it's "extreme" that I think we should have legit identification (beyond the veil of the honor system) for one of the cornerstones of our democratic process, sobeit. In my state, we have databases full of fingerprints. I don't really get the "fear" of another for voting...heck, they could probably tap into an existing one and not reinvent the wheel.

Why don't we just tattoo bar codes on voters? Or, inject a RFID implant? Take a DNA swab?

You can't see how such databases would be every bit as much opportunity for government abuse as say a registry of gun owners? Or "meta data" from cell phone calls and e-mails?

In the current state of our world and what info our government already has on us? No, I can't. It's a ridiculous "fear" to have IMO.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

As for the voter ID cards, Louisiana uses this method. I get one like everyone else here.

We get green voter identification cards, it shows precinct, district, home address, and that kind of thing. No photo. You can provide this when you go to vote in lieu of a driver's license or state photo ID.

Every person on the rolls gets a card; if you're not on the rolls you don't get a card. Voter signs in just like everyone else. This takes care of elderly people who don't have DL's for instance.

Seems pretty simple. - Though I would guess that LA is probably one of the states that rank high on voter fraud, if such things are looked at independently. I just don't have a problem with this system as a matter of principle, I guess because I think it has more to do with our political culture than our system.

I do believe whether individuals do vote is tracked, because when politicians run for office every so often there's an accusation that one hasn't voted in so many elections.

Nothing I have read from you or the article I linked or a few other articles I read to respond to you suggest that in implementation the Louisiana "voter id" law is any different than non voter id states other than asking for id. Maybe in the nitty gritty there are other details that differ, but at the end of the day it seems like you just need to sign that you are who you say you are without the need for the ID to vote. If that is true no one is really answering your questions because there is no difference. I think this is also why you don't see the challenges to your state's law - at least high profile ones.

So why do they ask for my ID when I go to vote?

That is the only difference. When you say you don't have one then based on what you wrote and what I read elsewhere (meaning I could be wrong about your state) the system is pretty much functionally reverts to being the same as anywhere else that doesn't ask for ID,

So, problem solved?

Voter ID for voters with ID. No voter ID for those without.

Simple enough

Wait, let's back up.

This is LA (Full disclaimer, LA has a history of, uh, shall we say electoral irregularities. However I have never personally seen anyone vote without an ID)::

Each applicant shall identify himself, in the presence and view of the bystanders, and present to the commissioners a Louisiana driver's license, a Louisiana special identification card issued pursuant to R.S. 40:1321, or other generally recognized picture identification card that contains the name and signature of the applicant.

If the applicant does not have a Louisiana driver's license, a Louisiana special identification card, or other generally recognized picture identification card that contains the name and signature of the applicant, the applicant shall complete and sign an affidavit, which is supplied by the secretary of state, to that effect before the commissioners, which affidavit shall include the applicant's date of birth and mother's maiden name.

If the applicant is unable to read or write or is otherwise unable to complete the affidavit due to disability, the applicant may receive assistance in completing the affidavit and the commissioner shall make a notation on the affidavit. The applicant may receive the assistance of any person of his choice, including a commissioner, except a candidate, commissioner-in-charge, the applicant's employer or employer's agent, or the applicant's union agent.

http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/newWin.asp?doc=81643

So:

• Either show up with ID
• Or sign an affidavit swearing you have no ID and state date of birth and mother's maiden name
• Or sign an affidavit swearing you are either illiterate or disabled (and state date of birth and mother's maiden name)

I have helped elderly people vote here via absentee / vote by mail, and there is an affidavit, it's either notarized - by an attorney - saying this is how the voter wants to vote, OR it's signed by a witness who swears the person is disabled and incapable of filling it out himself/herself.

I would call this a voter ID law. Does anyone anywhere, liberal, progressive, conservative, Republican, Democrat, or Other, have a problem with this?

 

[Koya]

As for the voter ID cards, Louisiana uses this method. I get one like everyone else here.

We get green voter identification cards, it shows precinct, district, home address, and that kind of thing. No photo. You can provide this when you go to vote in lieu of a driver's license or state photo ID.

Every person on the rolls gets a card; if you're not on the rolls you don't get a card. Voter signs in just like everyone else. This takes care of elderly people who don't have DL's for instance.

Seems pretty simple. - Though I would guess that LA is probably one of the states that rank high on voter fraud, if such things are looked at independently. I just don't have a problem with this system as a matter of principle, I guess because I think it has more to do with our political culture than our system.

I do believe whether individuals do vote is tracked, because when politicians run for office every so often there's an accusation that one hasn't voted in so many elections.

Nothing I have read from you or the article I linked or a few other articles I read to respond to you suggest that in implementation the Louisiana "voter id" law is any different than non voter id states other than asking for id. Maybe in the nitty gritty there are other details that differ, but at the end of the day it seems like you just need to sign that you are who you say you are without the need for the ID to vote. If that is true no one is really answering your questions because there is no difference. I think this is also why you don't see the challenges to your state's law - at least high profile ones.

So why do they ask for my ID when I go to vote?

That is the only difference. When you say you don't have one then based on what you wrote and what I read elsewhere (meaning I could be wrong about your state) the system is pretty much functionally reverts to being the same as anywhere else that doesn't ask for ID,

So, problem solved?

Voter ID for voters with ID. No voter ID for those without.

Simple enough

What if it's a Union vote? Do I need ID then?

You need an ID only if you have an ID.

Everyone wins!

 

[The Commish]

As this thread goes along, I'm left wondering why we have any sort of "identification" requirement at all. Honestly, I don't see the point If you're not going to ID them, then don't ID them. How many millions/billions have we wasted on this faux premise?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

As this thread goes along, I'm left wondering why we have any sort of "identification" requirement at all. Honestly, I don't see the point If you're not going to ID them, then don't ID them. How many millions/billions have we wasted on this faux premise?

Has anyone really said this? I keep hearing this dispute from the left, right and middle, but where is it coming from.

I live in LA, I posted our law above. Is everyone ok with that?

Are there really states where a voter can just walk in and vote without an ID or some kind of sworn statement of inability to provide one?

 

[The Commish]

As this thread goes along, I'm left wondering why we have any sort of "identification" requirement at all. Honestly, I don't see the point If you're not going to ID them, then don't ID them. How many millions/billions have we wasted on this faux premise?

Has anyone really said this? I keep hearing this dispute from the left, right and middle, but where is it coming from.

I live in LA, I posted our law above. Is everyone ok with that?

Are there really states where a voter can just walk in and vote without an ID or some kind of sworn statement of inability to provide one?

I just said it. Does that count? Here, I can walk up with my utility bill. If that passes, it's not a huge leap to "no id" IMO. Your state solution doesn't really identify you in any way either....at least that I can tell. You could hand your card to your friend, he sign your name and they'd never know right?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I've voted in at least four different states, and I don't think I've ever shown anything. I just say my name and the street I live on, and then sometimes I have to sign a book or something.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I've voted in at least four different states, and I don't think I've ever shown anything. I just say my name and the street I live on, and then sometimes I have to sign a book or something.

That is amazing to me.

At a minimum they should be checking to be sure your name is at least on a registration list. Seriously I had no idea this went on.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I've voted in at least four different states, and I don't think I've ever shown anything. I just say my name and the street I live on, and then sometimes I have to sign a book or something.

That is amazing to me.

At a minimum they should be checking to be sure your name is at least on a registration list. Seriously I had no idea this went on.

They do check to see if I'm on the list. That's why I tell them my name and street, so they can check me off, or i can sign next to my name.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

As this thread goes along, I'm left wondering why we have any sort of "identification" requirement at all. Honestly, I don't see the point If you're not going to ID them, then don't ID them. How many millions/billions have we wasted on this faux premise?

Has anyone really said this? I keep hearing this dispute from the left, right and middle, but where is it coming from.

I live in LA, I posted our law above. Is everyone ok with that?

Are there really states where a voter can just walk in and vote without an ID or some kind of sworn statement of inability to provide one?

I just said it. Does that count? Here, I can walk up with my utility bill. If that passes, it's not a huge leap to "no id" IMO. Your state solution doesn't really identify you in any way either....at least that I can tell. You could hand your card to your friend, he sign your name and they'd never know right?

My experience is - has always been - I show my ID, one person checks the ID, reads out the name and the spelling, another person looks at the registration book, finds my name, that person initials the entry (or checkmarks it), then I sign the book. They then return the ID.

So for instance when I sign the book I have a pretty good idea of turnout that day, I can see relatives with names similar to mine, etc., who may or may not have voted, etc.

It seems crazy to me people would be willing to let non-voters in a race vote or allow people to vote twice.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I've voted in at least four different states, and I don't think I've ever shown anything. I just say my name and the street I live on, and then sometimes I have to sign a book or something.

That is amazing to me.

At a minimum they should be checking to be sure your name is at least on a registration list. Seriously I had no idea this went on.

They do check to see if I'm on the list. That's why I tell them my name and street, so they can check me off, or i can sign next to my name.

Ok, thanks.

So at a minimum, everyone agrees there should be voter rolls that are at least checked in order to allow a person to vote (aside from the verification issue)?

 

[The Commish]

As this thread goes along, I'm left wondering why we have any sort of "identification" requirement at all. Honestly, I don't see the point If you're not going to ID them, then don't ID them. How many millions/billions have we wasted on this faux premise?

Has anyone really said this? I keep hearing this dispute from the left, right and middle, but where is it coming from.

I live in LA, I posted our law above. Is everyone ok with that?

Are there really states where a voter can just walk in and vote without an ID or some kind of sworn statement of inability to provide one?

I just said it. Does that count? Here, I can walk up with my utility bill. If that passes, it's not a huge leap to "no id" IMO. Your state solution doesn't really identify you in any way either....at least that I can tell. You could hand your card to your friend, he sign your name and they'd never know right?

My experience is - has always been - I show my ID, one person checks the ID, reads out the name and the spelling, another person looks at the registration book, finds my name, that person initials the entry (or checkmarks it), then I sign the book. They then return the ID.

So for instance when I sign the book I have a pretty good idea of turnout that day, I can see relatives with names similar to mine, etc., who may or may not have voted, etc.

It seems crazy to me people would be willing to let non-voters in a race vote or allow people to vote twice.

There's nothing to verify that the card you handed them is you though right? Step back for a second and think about it. The "registration book" is created by the same database that creates the ID (most likely). All they are doing is verifying that what is printed in the book is also printed on the card. So why spend all the dough to maintain something like that?

 

[Rich Conway]

Are there really states where a voter can just walk in and vote without an ID or some kind of sworn statement of inability to provide one?

Yes. That's kind of the discussion. There are states where you can walk in and vote without showing ID or stating anything other than a name.

 

[Koya]

Are there really states where a voter can just walk in and vote without an ID or some kind of sworn statement of inability to provide one?

Yes. That's kind of the discussion. There are states where you can walk in and vote without showing ID or stating anything other than a name.

I walk in. I tell them my address. I sign a book. They "match" my current sig with one I provided god knows how long ago. I vote.

That said, my community has the resources to have multiple polling locations, multiple spots at each station and more than enough volunteers, coffee and donuts. Most people know one another - SOMEone in the room will know you at the least. I basically vote with my neighborhood that totals a couple thousand people or so.

 

[The Commish]

Are there really states where a voter can just walk in and vote without an ID or some kind of sworn statement of inability to provide one?

Yes. That's kind of the discussion. There are states where you can walk in and vote without showing ID or stating anything other than a name.

I walk in. I tell them my address. I sign a book. They "match" my current sig with one I provided god knows how long ago. I vote.

That said, my community has the resources to have multiple polling locations, multiple spots at each station and more than enough volunteers, coffee and donuts. Most people know one another - SOMEone in the room will know you at the least. I basically vote with my neighborhood that totals a couple thousand people or so.

wait....they keep your signature on file?!?!?!?!

 

[Rich Conway]

Are there really states where a voter can just walk in and vote without an ID or some kind of sworn statement of inability to provide one?

Yes. That's kind of the discussion. There are states where you can walk in and vote without showing ID or stating anything other than a name.

I walk in. I tell them my address. I sign a book. They "match" my current sig with one I provided god knows how long ago. I vote.

That said, my community has the resources to have multiple polling locations, multiple spots at each station and more than enough volunteers, coffee and donuts. Most people know one another - SOMEone in the room will know you at the least. I basically vote with my neighborhood that totals a couple thousand people or so.

Right, some places I've voted have been like that too. Others are similar, but no one knows anyone because the polling location serves 50K+ people.

I've voted in locations where you state your name and street, they check it off, and you go vote. Literally, the only two checks are 1) whether the name and address match in the registration book, and 2) whether that person has already voted or not. There is no other verification done.

I'm not going to argue that photo ID is the only way to verify for sure, but I do argue that the above is not sufficient.

 

[Koya]

Are there really states where a voter can just walk in and vote without an ID or some kind of sworn statement of inability to provide one?

Yes. That's kind of the discussion. There are states where you can walk in and vote without showing ID or stating anything other than a name.

I walk in. I tell them my address. I sign a book. They "match" my current sig with one I provided god knows how long ago. I vote.

That said, my community has the resources to have multiple polling locations, multiple spots at each station and more than enough volunteers, coffee and donuts. Most people know one another - SOMEone in the room will know you at the least. I basically vote with my neighborhood that totals a couple thousand people or so.

Right, some places I've voted have been like that too. Others are similar, but no one knows anyone because the polling location serves 50K+ people.

I've voted in locations where you state your name and street, they check it off, and you go vote. Literally, the only two checks are 1) whether the name and address match in the registration book, and 2) whether that person has already voted or not. There is no other verification done.

I'm not going to argue that photo ID is the only way to verify for sure, but I do argue that the above is not sufficient.

The concept of Voter ID is not the biggest issue here, imo. It's the reality that voter ID is being used as an excuse to purposefully deny specific segments of the population the ability to vote.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

It's the reality that voter ID is being used as an excuse to purposefully deny specific segments of the population the ability to vote.

Ok, at a minimum we all agree that people must be registered to vote to actually vote, right?

What is a conceivable situation where a registered voter goes to vote and they are not allowed to?

Are there any states that actually don't give people the affidavit/signature/"check name, address in book" option?

 

[Koya]

It's the reality that voter ID is being used as an excuse to purposefully deny specific segments of the population the ability to vote.

Ok, at a minimum we all agree that people must be registered to vote to actually vote, right?

What is a conceivable situation where a registered voter goes to vote and they are not allowed to?

Are there any states that actually don't give people the affidavit/signature/"check name, address in book" option?

My understanding is that the state wide efforts in some republican run states have put forth laws (some of which have already been struck down) that did and would prevent some people from voting. You hear a lot about old lady's who never had an ID coupled with a convoluted and difficult process that appears to be designed in a manner TO be difficult, and how those folks couldn't vote.

You then add to that efforts to limit the ability to register by having certain time horizons, less resources in urban areas where there would be more dem voters, shortening / eliminating time for voting in advance (not sure how this works to be honest)... I'm sure others are more up to speed on the specifics, but we are talking about a coordinated campaign that some republican officials in certain states have flat out admitted was a campaign to lessen the dem vote - not actually combat fraud.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Are there really states where a voter can just walk in and vote without an ID or some kind of sworn statement of inability to provide one?

Yes. That's kind of the discussion. There are states where you can walk in and vote without showing ID or stating anything other than a name.

I walk in. I tell them my address. I sign a book. They "match" my current sig with one I provided god knows how long ago. I vote.

That said, my community has the resources to have multiple polling locations, multiple spots at each station and more than enough volunteers, coffee and donuts. Most people know one another - SOMEone in the room will know you at the least. I basically vote with my neighborhood that totals a couple thousand people or so.

Right, some places I've voted have been like that too. Others are similar, but no one knows anyone because the polling location serves 50K+ people.

I've voted in locations where you state your name and street, they check it off, and you go vote. Literally, the only two checks are 1) whether the name and address match in the registration book, and 2) whether that person has already voted or not. There is no other verification done.

I'm not going to argue that photo ID is the only way to verify for sure, but I do argue that the above is not sufficient.

The concept of Voter ID is not the biggest issue here, imo. It's the reality that voter ID is being used as an excuse to purposefully deny specific segments of the population the ability to vote.

Horse-####, Koya. That's left-wing fear-mongering talking points based in fantasy land.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

TAKE THAT KOYA!!!!

 

[Todd Andrews]

Are there really states where a voter can just walk in and vote without an ID or some kind of sworn statement of inability to provide one?

Yes. That's kind of the discussion. There are states where you can walk in and vote without showing ID or stating anything other than a name.

I walk in. I tell them my address. I sign a book. They "match" my current sig with one I provided god knows how long ago. I vote.

That said, my community has the resources to have multiple polling locations, multiple spots at each station and more than enough volunteers, coffee and donuts. Most people know one another - SOMEone in the room will know you at the least. I basically vote with my neighborhood that totals a couple thousand people or so.

Right, some places I've voted have been like that too. Others are similar, but no one knows anyone because the polling location serves 50K+ people.

I've voted in locations where you state your name and street, they check it off, and you go vote. Literally, the only two checks are 1) whether the name and address match in the registration book, and 2) whether that person has already voted or not. There is no other verification done.

I'm not going to argue that photo ID is the only way to verify for sure, but I do argue that the above is not sufficient.

The concept of Voter ID is not the biggest issue here, imo. It's the reality that voter ID is being used as an excuse to purposefully deny specific segments of the population the ability to vote.

Horse-####, Koya. That's left-wing fear-mongering talking points based in fantasy land.

MaxKooK, your Bizarro world must be fun to live in. Multiple elected Republican officeholders, some of whom sponsored and passed these very laws, are on the record confirming exactly what Koya said.

You should try to overcome your KooKFear of brown and poor and young Americans voting.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Are there really states where a voter can just walk in and vote without an ID or some kind of sworn statement of inability to provide one?

Yes. That's kind of the discussion. There are states where you can walk in and vote without showing ID or stating anything other than a name.

I walk in. I tell them my address. I sign a book. They "match" my current sig with one I provided god knows how long ago. I vote.

That said, my community has the resources to have multiple polling locations, multiple spots at each station and more than enough volunteers, coffee and donuts. Most people know one another - SOMEone in the room will know you at the least. I basically vote with my neighborhood that totals a couple thousand people or so.

Right, some places I've voted have been like that too. Others are similar, but no one knows anyone because the polling location serves 50K+ people.

I've voted in locations where you state your name and street, they check it off, and you go vote. Literally, the only two checks are 1) whether the name and address match in the registration book, and 2) whether that person has already voted or not. There is no other verification done.

I'm not going to argue that photo ID is the only way to verify for sure, but I do argue that the above is not sufficient.

The concept of Voter ID is not the biggest issue here, imo. It's the reality that voter ID is being used as an excuse to purposefully deny specific segments of the population the ability to vote.

Horse-####, Koya. That's left-wing fear-mongering talking points based in fantasy land.

MaxKooK, your Bizarro world must be fun to live in. Multiple elected Republican officeholders, some of whom sponsored and passed these very laws, are on the record confirming exactly what Koya said.

You should try to overcome your KooKFear of brown and poor and young Americans voting.

Ahhh...good old "crazy" Todd Andrews - always good for a laugh. Good thing you're the only one who takes you seriously.

However, it seems to me you're the one who is scared since it's your extreme left policies that continue to keep people poor and dependent upon governments for votes. You can't have them leaving the dependency rolls because that means lost votes for you far left zealots.

But that is another issue for another thread.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Are there really states where a voter can just walk in and vote without an ID or some kind of sworn statement of inability to provide one?

Yes. That's kind of the discussion. There are states where you can walk in and vote without showing ID or stating anything other than a name.

I walk in. I tell them my address. I sign a book. They "match" my current sig with one I provided god knows how long ago. I vote.

That said, my community has the resources to have multiple polling locations, multiple spots at each station and more than enough volunteers, coffee and donuts. Most people know one another - SOMEone in the room will know you at the least. I basically vote with my neighborhood that totals a couple thousand people or so.

Right, some places I've voted have been like that too. Others are similar, but no one knows anyone because the polling location serves 50K+ people.

I've voted in locations where you state your name and street, they check it off, and you go vote. Literally, the only two checks are 1) whether the name and address match in the registration book, and 2) whether that person has already voted or not. There is no other verification done.

I'm not going to argue that photo ID is the only way to verify for sure, but I do argue that the above is not sufficient.

The concept of Voter ID is not the biggest issue here, imo. It's the reality that voter ID is being used as an excuse to purposefully deny specific segments of the population the ability to vote.

Horse-####, Koya. That's left-wing fear-mongering talking points based in fantasy land.

MaxKooK, your Bizarro world must be fun to live in. Multiple elected Republican officeholders, some of whom sponsored and passed these very laws, are on the record confirming exactly what Koya said.

You should try to overcome your KooKFear of brown and poor and young Americans voting.

Ahhh...good old "crazy" Todd Andrews - always good for a laugh. Good thing you're the only one who takes you seriously.

However, it seems to me you're the one who is scared since it's your extreme left policies that continue to keep people poor and dependent upon governments for votes. You can't have them leaving the dependency rolls because that means lost votes for you far left zealots.

But that is another issue for another thread.

Right, those 47% of American welchers and gubmint moochers somehow got Obama elected over the votes of True American KooKs like you. This interview you gave tells us what you believe.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

It's the reality that voter ID is being used as an excuse to purposefully deny specific segments of the population the ability to vote.

Ok, at a minimum we all agree that people must be registered to vote to actually vote, right?

What is a conceivable situation where a registered voter goes to vote and they are not allowed to?

Are there any states that actually don't give people the affidavit/signature/"check name, address in book" option?

My understanding is that the state wide efforts in some republican run states have put forth laws (some of which have already been struck down) that did and would prevent some people from voting. You hear a lot about old lady's who never had an ID coupled with a convoluted and difficult process that appears to be designed in a manner TO be difficult, and how those folks couldn't vote.

You then add to that efforts to limit the ability to register by having certain time horizons, less resources in urban areas where there would be more dem voters, shortening / eliminating time for voting in advance (not sure how this works to be honest)... I'm sure others are more up to speed on the specifics, but we are talking about a coordinated campaign that some republican officials in certain states have flat out admitted was a campaign to lessen the dem vote - not actually combat fraud.

About the old lady thing - here I've actually helped elderly vote, they sign an affidavit like BFS points out. Now that's absentee / early voting but my guess is that would apply at the poll too.

I'm not sure why the GOP is trying to disenfranchise the elderly when they tend to be more conservative and are chronic voters that can be relied upon.

The other stuff you are talking about - which I get, like in Cleveland in 2008 supposedly - is really a whole other issue, voter ID doesn't affect hours and that kind of thing. I get the motive argument, but again a voter ID law doesn't affect those things.

It sounds to me like everyone's getting all charged up about this issue by the parties, and there's no there there.

 

[Todd Andrews]

It's the reality that voter ID is being used as an excuse to purposefully deny specific segments of the population the ability to vote.

Ok, at a minimum we all agree that people must be registered to vote to actually vote, right?

What is a conceivable situation where a registered voter goes to vote and they are not allowed to?

Are there any states that actually don't give people the affidavit/signature/"check name, address in book" option?

My understanding is that the state wide efforts in some republican run states have put forth laws (some of which have already been struck down) that did and would prevent some people from voting. You hear a lot about old lady's who never had an ID coupled with a convoluted and difficult process that appears to be designed in a manner TO be difficult, and how those folks couldn't vote.

You then add to that efforts to limit the ability to register by having certain time horizons, less resources in urban areas where there would be more dem voters, shortening / eliminating time for voting in advance (not sure how this works to be honest)... I'm sure others are more up to speed on the specifics, but we are talking about a coordinated campaign that some republican officials in certain states have flat out admitted was a campaign to lessen the dem vote - not actually combat fraud.

About the old lady thing - here I've actually helped elderly vote, they sign an affidavit like BFS points out. Now that's absentee / early voting but my guess is that would apply at the poll too.

I'm not sure why the GOP is trying to disenfranchise the elderly when they tend to be more conservative and are chronic voters that can be relied upon.

The other stuff you are talking about - which I get, like in Cleveland in 2008 supposedly - is really a whole other issue, voter ID doesn't affect hours and that kind of thing. I get the motive argument, but again a voter ID law doesn't affect those things.

It sounds to me like everyone's getting all charged up about this issue by the parties, and there's no there there.

Why are Republicans against college students being able to vote where they to college if they are from out of state?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

What is a conceivable situation where a registered voter goes to vote and they are not allowed to?

Ignoring other issues such as Florida's illegal purge of names that resembled those of felons, or where over zealot partisan watchers challenge everyone that shows up, or when the one voting machine in a large city precinct doesn't work, or when after waiting all day long in line one party runs to the courts to make sure the election ends at precisely the scheduled time....

Ignoring those things this topic is about adding the requirement that voters present a specific form of identification possibly from a list of several or they simply won't be allowed to vote. No other options.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What is a conceivable situation where a registered voter goes to vote and they are not allowed to?

Ignoring other issues such as Florida's illegal purge of names that resembled those of felons, or where over zealot partisan watchers challenge everyone that shows up, or when the one voting machine in a large city precinct doesn't work, or when after waiting all day long in line one party runs to the courts to make sure the election ends at precisely the scheduled time....

Ignoring those things this topic is about adding the requirement that voters present a specific form of identification possibly from a list of several or they simply won't be allowed to vote. No other options.

Just found this via search on bing news:

Under previous law in Arkansas, election workers were required to ask for photo ID but voters didn't have to show it to cast a ballot. Under the new law, voters who don't show photo identification can cast provisional ballots. Those ballots are counted only if voters provide ID to county election officials before noon on the Monday after an election, sign an affidavit stating they are indigent or have a religious objection to being photographed.

http://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2014/05/14/arkansas-court-says-judge-went-too-far-on-voter-id

Maybe I don't have the whole context here, but if the voter is disabled (no ID), illiterate (no ID), or just plain doesn't have an ID, there should be a way to line the name up with the registration rolls at the polling place. State the address, plus one of DOB and/or mother's maiden name, sign an Affidavit with a notary or witness, something, anything.

I don't like the provisional ballot thing here or under any circumstances, either you're registered to vote and you can vote or you're not registered and you can't. It seems to me the voter registration list at the polling station should control.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

What is a conceivable situation where a registered voter goes to vote and they are not allowed to?

Ignoring other issues such as Florida's illegal purge of names that resembled those of felons, or where over zealot partisan watchers challenge everyone that shows up, or when the one voting machine in a large city precinct doesn't work, or when after waiting all day long in line one party runs to the courts to make sure the election ends at precisely the scheduled time....

Ignoring those things this topic is about adding the requirement that voters present a specific form of identification possibly from a list of several or they simply won't be allowed to vote. No other options.

Just found this via search on bing news:

Under previous law in Arkansas, election workers were required to ask for photo ID but voters didn't have to show it to cast a ballot. Under the new law, voters who don't show photo identification can cast provisional ballots. Those ballots are counted only if voters provide ID to county election officials before noon on the Monday after an election, sign an affidavit stating they are indigent or have a religious objection to being photographed.

http://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2014/05/14/arkansas-court-says-judge-went-too-far-on-voter-id

Maybe I don't have the whole context here, but if the voter is disabled (no ID), illiterate (no ID), or just plain doesn't have an ID, there should be a way to line the name up with the registration rolls at the polling place. State the address, plus one of DOB and/or mother's maiden name, sign an Affidavit with a notary or witness, something, anything.

I don't like the provisional ballot thing here or under any circumstances, either you're registered to vote and you can vote or you're not registered and you can't. It seems to me the voter registration list at the polling station should control.

...Now watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, liberal, fanatical, criminal....

I think you support voter id based on your own experiences, but oppose how the voter id laws elsewhere that are being debated are being implemented. Assuming that one's word under oath with the potential for criminal prosecution is enough to identify yourself, using an ID to streamline the process for most people isn't really objectionable unless it is presented in such a way to cause confusion to keep eligible voters from even trying. (Kind of like the "Horray. we won" robo calls in Maryland in 2010. However I'm sure our reasonable conservatives agree completely with this quote "Henson's lawyers argued that 'dirty tricks' are a form of free speech.")

 

[Koya]

Are there really states where a voter can just walk in and vote without an ID or some kind of sworn statement of inability to provide one?

Yes. That's kind of the discussion. There are states where you can walk in and vote without showing ID or stating anything other than a name.

I walk in. I tell them my address. I sign a book. They "match" my current sig with one I provided god knows how long ago. I vote.

That said, my community has the resources to have multiple polling locations, multiple spots at each station and more than enough volunteers, coffee and donuts. Most people know one another - SOMEone in the room will know you at the least. I basically vote with my neighborhood that totals a couple thousand people or so.

Right, some places I've voted have been like that too. Others are similar, but no one knows anyone because the polling location serves 50K+ people.

I've voted in locations where you state your name and street, they check it off, and you go vote. Literally, the only two checks are 1) whether the name and address match in the registration book, and 2) whether that person has already voted or not. There is no other verification done.

I'm not going to argue that photo ID is the only way to verify for sure, but I do argue that the above is not sufficient.

The concept of Voter ID is not the biggest issue here, imo. It's the reality that voter ID is being used as an excuse to purposefully deny specific segments of the population the ability to vote.

Horse-####, Koya. That's left-wing fear-mongering talking points based in fantasy land.

This is a question that is asked in all sincerity, no hyperbole, no shtick. Do you really believe that?

To me, the facts are so clear. As mentioned, republican operatives and representatives have ADMITTED that the motivation for their efforts was to debt dems votes.

Maybe I have a huge blind-spot and bias that makes it seem like, 100% clear, but when you have people admitting this, how can you blame it on anything else?

 

[Koya]

TAKE THAT KOYA!!!!

I needed that. Guess he told me. Hard to argue with that logic.

 

[The Commish]

It's the reality that voter ID is being used as an excuse to purposefully deny specific segments of the population the ability to vote.

Ok, at a minimum we all agree that people must be registered to vote to actually vote, right?

What is a conceivable situation where a registered voter goes to vote and they are not allowed to?

Are there any states that actually don't give people the affidavit/signature/"check name, address in book" option?

Yes...as mentioned before, I can take a utility bill (at least that was the rule last election) and as long as it's in their "book of addresses" I am good to go.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What is a conceivable situation where a registered voter goes to vote and they are not allowed to?

Ignoring other issues such as Florida's illegal purge of names that resembled those of felons, or where over zealot partisan watchers challenge everyone that shows up, or when the one voting machine in a large city precinct doesn't work, or when after waiting all day long in line one party runs to the courts to make sure the election ends at precisely the scheduled time....

Ignoring those things this topic is about adding the requirement that voters present a specific form of identification possibly from a list of several or they simply won't be allowed to vote. No other options.

Just found this via search on bing news:

Under previous law in Arkansas, election workers were required to ask for photo ID but voters didn't have to show it to cast a ballot. Under the new law, voters who don't show photo identification can cast provisional ballots. Those ballots are counted only if voters provide ID to county election officials before noon on the Monday after an election, sign an affidavit stating they are indigent or have a religious objection to being photographed.

http://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2014/05/14/arkansas-court-says-judge-went-too-far-on-voter-id

Maybe I don't have the whole context here, but if the voter is disabled (no ID), illiterate (no ID), or just plain doesn't have an ID, there should be a way to line the name up with the registration rolls at the polling place. State the address, plus one of DOB and/or mother's maiden name, sign an Affidavit with a notary or witness, something, anything.

I don't like the provisional ballot thing here or under any circumstances, either you're registered to vote and you can vote or you're not registered and you can't. It seems to me the voter registration list at the polling station should control.

...Now watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, liberal, fanatical, criminal....

I think you support voter id based on your own experiences, but oppose how the voter id laws elsewhere that are being debated are being implemented. Assuming that one's word under oath with the potential for criminal prosecution is enough to identify yourself, using an ID to streamline the process for most people isn't really objectionable unless it is presented in such a way to cause confusion to keep eligible voters from even trying. (Kind of like the "Horray. we won" robo calls in Maryland in 2010. However I'm sure our reasonable conservatives agree completely with this quote "Henson's lawyers argued that 'dirty tricks' are a form of free speech.")

I have said this before: when it comes to local politics, everyone's politics get confused. Watch conservatives support government programs and watch liberals oppose regulation.

I think everyone thinks in terms of federal elections. In New Orleans we have a judge being prosecuted because she ran in a district where she does not live. To me the registration list rules at the ballot box. I take someone trying to vote illegally very seriously, but in NO that is more likely someone from another precinct or someone voting for a dead person than an illegal alien.

However I think our ability to vote is extremely serious. It's a right, it has to be protected there and then at the ballot box, every single one of us. Not later at a courthouse or a clerk's office - guess what that will never happen.

Voter suppression is a whole other issue. I do believe that polls should close at a decent hour, especially with all the early voting and absentee ballots we have now, but then someone who does robocalls trying to trick people into staying home ought to go to jail.

 

[Koya]

It's the reality that voter ID is being used as an excuse to purposefully deny specific segments of the population the ability to vote.

Ok, at a minimum we all agree that people must be registered to vote to actually vote, right?

What is a conceivable situation where a registered voter goes to vote and they are not allowed to?

Are there any states that actually don't give people the affidavit/signature/"check name, address in book" option?

My understanding is that the state wide efforts in some republican run states have put forth laws (some of which have already been struck down) that did and would prevent some people from voting. You hear a lot about old lady's who never had an ID coupled with a convoluted and difficult process that appears to be designed in a manner TO be difficult, and how those folks couldn't vote.

You then add to that efforts to limit the ability to register by having certain time horizons, less resources in urban areas where there would be more dem voters, shortening / eliminating time for voting in advance (not sure how this works to be honest)... I'm sure others are more up to speed on the specifics, but we are talking about a coordinated campaign that some republican officials in certain states have flat out admitted was a campaign to lessen the dem vote - not actually combat fraud.

About the old lady thing - here I've actually helped elderly vote, they sign an affidavit like BFS points out. Now that's absentee / early voting but my guess is that would apply at the poll too.

I'm not sure why the GOP is trying to disenfranchise the elderly when they tend to be more conservative and are chronic voters that can be relied upon.

The other stuff you are talking about - which I get, like in Cleveland in 2008 supposedly - is really a whole other issue, voter ID doesn't affect hours and that kind of thing. I get the motive argument, but again a voter ID law doesn't affect those things.

It sounds to me like everyone's getting all charged up about this issue by the parties, and there's no there there.

It's not about the parties to me. ####, I voted for neither of them last go around. It's about lowering barriers to voting as long as there is no fraud.

And the evidence STRONGLY suggests that there is exceptionally little fraud.

Even so, I'm ok with a better system including ID but in a well thought out, equitable manner. Damn, this is about maybe our most important right. So frustrating to see that so many don't seem to care so long as it helps their political aim.

 

[The Commish]

That brings up another question....why even have the "registration" process in the first place? When I "registered" I wrote down my name, address...no one verified if I was the person I wrote down on the paper....I'm seriously leaning now towards just letting people vote willy nilly....it would save the states millions.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

That brings up another question....why even have the "registration" process in the first place? When I "registered" I wrote down my name, address...no one verified if I was the person I wrote down on the paper....I'm seriously leaning now towards just letting people vote willy nilly....it would save the states millions.

Well I think everyone agrees we don't want people voting twice. Right?

But I honestly don't know how registration rolls are created. I guess you turn 18, you have an address in x precinct, that's where they send you to vote. I think the key is "one man one vote", not "one man two votes" nor "one man no vote."

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

That brings up another question....why even have the "registration" process in the first place? When I "registered" I wrote down my name, address...no one verified if I was the person I wrote down on the paper....I'm seriously leaning now towards just letting people vote willy nilly....it would save the states millions.

Well I think everyone agrees we don't want people voting twice. Right?

But I honestly don't know how registration rolls are created. I guess you turn 18, you have an address in x precinct, that's where they send you to vote. I think the key is "one man one vote", not "one man two votes" nor "one man no vote."

I think most people agree that they don't want you to vote twice, but I should be able to vote as many times as needed.

 

[The Commish]

That brings up another question....why even have the "registration" process in the first place? When I "registered" I wrote down my name, address...no one verified if I was the person I wrote down on the paper....I'm seriously leaning now towards just letting people vote willy nilly....it would save the states millions.

Well I think everyone agrees we don't want people voting twice. Right?

But I honestly don't know how registration rolls are created. I guess you turn 18, you have an address in x precinct, that's where they send you to vote. I think the key is "one man one vote", not "one man two votes" nor "one man no vote."

Right. But folks aren't worried about it happening now. I find it hard to believe they believe it's because of the process that's in place today. The reasons behind why voter ID isn't necessary should hold true for why presenting a utility bill isn't necessary right?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

That brings up another question....why even have the "registration" process in the first place? When I "registered" I wrote down my name, address...no one verified if I was the person I wrote down on the paper....I'm seriously leaning now towards just letting people vote willy nilly....it would save the states millions.

Well I think everyone agrees we don't want people voting twice. Right?

But I honestly don't know how registration rolls are created. I guess you turn 18, you have an address in x precinct, that's where they send you to vote. I think the key is "one man one vote", not "one man two votes" nor "one man no vote."

Right. But folks aren't worried about it happening now. I find it hard to believe they believe it's because of the process that's in place today. The reasons behind why voter ID isn't necessary should hold true for why presenting a utility bill isn't necessary right?

I think that's what I'm getting at. Right on that last point too.

I think people do care. I think even liberals/progressives/Democrats who stamp their feet about voter ID laws don't really believe that people who aren't registered should get to vote. Do they?

I think one of the worst things that has happened is "provisional" ballots. Either you're a registered voter or you're not. People who don't show up on the list, right there right then at the voting booth, shouldn't get to vote.

One major goal of our voting process should be to avoid disputes. We seem to be going in the opposite direction now.

Regardless of whether people are incorrectly included or excluded from voting we should prioritize certainty in our elections. Failing to create any standard whatsoever just about almost automatically guarantees civil discord. You know, third world stuff.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Why are Republicans against college students being able to vote where they to college if they are from out of state?

I'm going to guess it has something to do with them not being residents of the state. Wild hunch.

 

[Koya]

Why are Republicans against college students being able to vote where they to college if they are from out of state?

I'm going to guess it has something to do with them not being residents of the state. Wild hunch.

That may be part of the equation. The fact that they may be more prone to vote Dem plays into this as well, and I'm fairly confident in that assertion.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Why are Republicans against college students being able to vote where they to college if they are from out of state?

I'm going to guess it has something to do with them not being residents of the state. Wild hunch.

That may be part of the equation. The fact that they may be more prone to vote Dem plays into this as well, and I'm fairly confident in that assertion.

Are you seriously suggesting that states should throw out residency requirements in the special case of college students, specifically because of their voting patterns? If so, you're the one who's trying to game the system now.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Why are Republicans against college students being able to vote where they to college if they are from out of state?

I'm going to guess it has something to do with them not being residents of the state. Wild hunch.

That may be part of the equation. The fact that they may be more prone to vote Dem plays into this as well, and I'm fairly confident in that assertion.

Are you seriously suggesting that states should throw out residency requirements in the special case of college students, specifically because of their voting patterns? If so, you're the one who's trying to game the system now.