I need some more daughter advice- this time from fellow atheists (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

OK now of course everyone here is free to read and comment, but I'm really looking for atheist parents like myself to respond. If you are a religious Christian you might actually take offense to what I write here, which is not intended. I offer that warning in advance:

I was raised a non religious Jew, and have been an atheist since I was a teenager. My wife was raised a Lutheran, still believes, but doesn't like going to church. We have always told our two daughters they are free to believe what they like. We've celebrated Jewish and Christian holidays, taken them to their grandfathers church on Christmas and Easter. They've never shown any inclination to pursue this further- until now with my younger daughter.

It began when her best friend invited her to a Wednesday Bible study at her non demoninational church. My daughter went and loved it- they played games, ate sweets, prepared gifts for poor people. So she wanted to go again. And again. Now she's going every week. This last week she announced to us that she has found Jesus. She's giving us Bible quotations (her friend gave her a Bible app for her phone). This all happened very quickly.

There's been no attempt to convert the rest of us. But I'm pretty sure that's coming. I've always been an open minded guy but I have to admit this worries me. I don't know whether to leave it alone and hope it goes away. The church seems to be one of these really religious ones. I don't want my daughter coming to believe that I am bound for hell, and I'm pretty sure they are going to teach her that. So far it's only Wednesday night; she hasn't asked to go Sunday yet but I'm fairly sure that's coming. On the other hand she's a sweet 13 year old, has lots of friends, does well in school (8th grade) no complaints there.

Should I leave this alone? Let it run its course? Or actively try to stop it?

 

[Henry Ford]

Let it run its course, even if that course leads to her being a true believer. But make sure to continue to instill in her values of inclusion, tolerance, understanding of different faiths and different people.

You cannot instill those values in her by telling her she has no right to her faith, any more than you could by telling her she can't be an atheist. Discuss what's going on there and let her make her own decisions. She's 13. It's time for her to start figuring out what she believes, whatever it is.

 

[Henry Ford]

I don't believe in God, but I'm a big fan of Jesus. Guy had some great things to say. I would just make sure to make sure she understands the things she's saying, and the context those things were allegedly said in 2000 years ago, as well as what they mean now.

And the difference between religion and faith. She seems to really enjoy the religion. If it has led her to faith, good for her. I'm sure I'd be a much happier person if I believed in all of that.

 

[pricklypete]

"We have always told our two daughters they are free to believe what they like."

 

[matuski]

I don't stop my kids from doing anything church related... I grew up in it.

I will not interfere in my kids' beliefs (to a point).

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Let it go what is it going to hurt?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

My dad's agnostic.

Growing up, I became a confirmed Lutheran and my pastor even talked to me about becoming a pastor. My dad never got in the way of it.

Now I'm an agnostic myself.

Think of it as more of a questioning of parenting than religion and I think your path becomes easier.

 

[Card Trader]

Both my kids go to church, my oldest (daughter 14) has now started to question things, especially when she sees atrocities around the world and wants to know how God could let something like that happen. I encourage both of them to question things and to dig deeper. I've told them you can believe whatever you want, but faith means you'll never be able to prove what you believe.

As ridiculous as I find the notion of a biblical god/jesus I won't prevent them from coming to that understanding and reality themselves. If they are smart they will eventually realize how silly it is.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Of course you leave it alone. If you give religious ardor the additional appeal of rebellion against authority she'll be at Jesus camp by the time she's 15.

 

[timschochet]

Yeah I agree with what all of you are saying. I knew I would. Still it's troubling. There's a part of me that feels like she's being brainwashed here, not too much different than if she had joined a cult.

 

[boots11234]

Ok I'm Christian just so you know. In your second paragraph you said they are free to believe. Yet now when they do, your thinking about squashing it. Let it run its course. Most Christians are good people believe it or not. Heck she may even convert you. Yes, she will probably worry you aren't going to heaven but that shouldn't bother you as you don't believe in heaven.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Yeah, I don't think you should prevent her from attending church. Chances are that she'll figure out on her own that it sucks. If she doesn't, then efforts to stop her religious practices will put a serious strain on your relationship with her, which seems like the worst possible outcome.

You should go with her once just to see exactly what the church is like.

 

[Henry Ford]

Also, as far as her trying to convert you:

If that happens, you should engage her in conversation about why you won't be converting: you don't believe in things because of fear of hell. You believe in things because of evidence. Be firm and reasonable in your convictions, explain that you aren't trying to tell her what to believe, but that you've spent a lifetime grappling with the questions she's now starting to look at, and you're comfortable with your position.

If she can convince you of the other side of things, great. Otherwise, why would you be worried about her trying to convert you?

 

[Drifter]

The church seems to be one of these really religious ones

I know what you meant by this but it made me laugh.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

 

[timschochet]

Ok I'm Christian just so you know. In your second paragraph you said they are free to believe. Yet now when they do, your thinking about squashing it. Let it run its course. Most Christians are good people believe it or not. Heck she may even convert you. Yes, she will probably worry you aren't going to heaven but that shouldn't bother you as you don't believe in heaven.

Just to clarify, I absolutely believe that most Christians are good people and I never meant to imply otherwise.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I agree with FGIALC, go with her once to see what kind of church it is.

Although then you might have to go to another as comparison if you've never been to many Christian services.

 

[timschochet]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

What would you regard as improper influence?

 

[pantagrapher]

It began when her best friend invited her to a Wednesday Bible study at her non demoninational church.

The church seems to be one of these really religious ones.

I'm an athiest, too, and I was not aware these existed. That said, I wouldn't sweat it too much. She'll eventually learn religion is not fun and find out about cooler stuff like drinking and sex.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

What would you regard as improper influence?

In terms of Christianity, a church is one where Jesus is the center, a cult is where the dude running the church is.In short, anyway.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Agnostic

I fail to see the problem here. Your 13 year old daughter is spending her evenings playing games and making gifts for poor people. Curiosity is a good thing, don't stifle it.

If she tries to convert you, have an honest and open discussion with her like Henry has indicated.

 

[Amused to Death]

Our daughter was similar at that age although less extreme. My wife and I were both raised in Christian families though only to the extent of going to church on Sundays and holidays. We stopped attending when the kids were toddlers and never made it a practice with them to go. However we live 1 block from our church and we have other family that go regularly. Our daughter started going on her own just to be with the family. She joined the youth group and decided she wanted to be confirmed and attended classes and church on her own. We fully supported her decision a proudly attended her Confirmation.

She grew older, the church changed and she started losing interest. Through her teen years, church was very good influence on her although she never became "preachy". I also don't think she ever fully bought into it. It was more of a social thing for her.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

You mean like having adults pushing their mythology on an impressionable child?

 

[Plorfu]

My daughter went and loved it- they played games, ate sweets, prepared gifts for poor people. So she wanted to go again. And again. Now she's going every week. This last week she announced to us that she has found Jesus. She's giving us Bible quotations (her friend gave her a Bible app for her phone). This all happened very quickly.

This happened to our daughter, Paige. She started praying before dinner, quit volleyball and even gave her savings to the church. She became judgmental of our actions and kept suspecting us of wrongdoing. After a lot of insistence, we eventually had to come clean and let her know we were really Soviet spies. She promised not to tell anyone, but I'm pretty sure she's going to rat us out to her Pastor and we might have to eliminate her.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

You mean like having adults pushing their mythology on an impressionable child?

Like college?

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

You mean like having adults pushing their mythology on an impressionable child?

Like college?

They push mythology on kids in college?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

You mean like having adults pushing their mythology on an impressionable child?

Like college?

They push mythology on kids in college?

Well, more like doctrine, but yes.

 

[kutta]

Fellow atheist here - raised Catholic.

I would let it go. There are a lot of worse things she could be into at that age. I sometimes wish my youngest (17 now) would have gotten into a church with some good kids. Maybe it would have helped her avoid some of the trouble she's gotten into lately.

My kids did attend a church for a bit when they were younger but it didn't stick. They did some awesome things. Going to Mexico and building houses for some poor folks down there was quite an experience. Let her do her thing. It might be good.

 

[timschochet]

My daughter went and loved it- they played games, ate sweets, prepared gifts for poor people. So she wanted to go again. And again. Now she's going every week. This last week she announced to us that she has found Jesus. She's giving us Bible quotations (her friend gave her a Bible app for her phone). This all happened very quickly.

This happened to our daughter, Paige. She started praying before dinner, quit volleyball and even gave her savings to the church. She became judgmental of our actions and kept suspecting us of wrongdoing. After a lot of insistence, we eventually had to come clean and let her know we were really Soviet spies. She promised not to tell anyone, but I'm pretty sure she's going to rat us out to her Pastor and we might have to eliminate her.

Is that fromthe Americans? I haven't watched that yet.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

You mean like having adults pushing their mythology on an impressionable child?

Like college?

They push mythology on kids in college?

Well, more like doctrine, but yes.

"Is that a Ferrari?"

"Well, more like a Yugo, but Yes."

 

[IvanKaramazov]

My daughter went and loved it- they played games, ate sweets, prepared gifts for poor people. So she wanted to go again. And again. Now she's going every week. This last week she announced to us that she has found Jesus. She's giving us Bible quotations (her friend gave her a Bible app for her phone). This all happened very quickly.

This happened to our daughter, Paige. She started praying before dinner, quit volleyball and even gave her savings to the church. She became judgmental of our actions and kept suspecting us of wrongdoing. After a lot of insistence, we eventually had to come clean and let her know we were really Soviet spies. She promised not to tell anyone, but I'm pretty sure she's going to rat us out to her Pastor and we might have to eliminate her.

 

[Steve Tasker]

She grew older, the church changed and she started losing interest. Through her teen years, church was very good influence on her although she never became "preachy". I also don't think she ever fully bought into it. It was more of a social thing for her.

I had a lot of friends who were into Young Life and other youth groups. Some were very religious, some weren't, some are religious today, some aren't. It runs the spectrum; for a lot of them, it was just a social thing.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

. Otherwise, why would you be worried about her trying to convert you?

Because she could be a pain in the ###?

 

[Todd Andrews]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

What would you regard as improper influence?

That could be a number of things, and I include teachings in influence, but I expect you would know it if you saw it. For example, if she was being told bad things about nonbelievers, or if she was being told that she needed to convert her family or others, etc.

And a visit with her to their worship services/bible study, etc., sounds like a very good idea.

 

[timschochet]

Thanks for the advice everyone. There seems to be an absolute consensus- so I'll take it.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

You mean like having adults pushing their mythology on an impressionable child?

Like college?

They push mythology on kids in college?

Well, more like doctrine, but yes.

"Is that a Ferrari?"

"Well, more like a Yugo, but Yes."

You're being pretty obtuse.I'm not surprised.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Thanks for the advice everyone. There seems to be an absolute consensus- so I'll take it.

Uhhh...not really.

My advice is to let her explore this new-found "faith" but make sure you discuss it with her. Ask her what they are teaching her at this church and respectfully offer counterpoints. There is nothing wrong with her being exposed to religion but make sure she is also exposed to reality.

Imagine it this way: If she joined the Young Republicans or Junior Tea-Partiers you would probably have some interesting discussions around the dinner table, no? It shouldn't be any different with her finding Jeebus.

 

[Henry Ford]

. Otherwise, why would you be worried about her trying to convert you?

Because she could be a pain in the ###?

A 13-year-old girl who's a pain in the ###? Heaven forfend!

 

[PIK95]

I would have never let her go that first time myself. My kids are also not going to college outside of New England. It's a scary world out there, and I want to maintain control as long as possible. My kids are super happy, smart, and social. If those things were different, I might look at things a little different. "Maintain the status quo", like Mickey Donovan said

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

You mean like having adults pushing their mythology on an impressionable child?

Like college?

They push mythology on kids in college?

Well, more like doctrine, but yes.

"Is that a Ferrari?"

"Well, more like a Yugo, but Yes."

You're being pretty obtuse.I'm not surprised.

You think that mythology and doctrine are the same thing? That's not being obtuse...it's being stupid.

 

[Henry Ford]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

You mean like having adults pushing their mythology on an impressionable child?

Like college?

They push mythology on kids in college?

Well, more like doctrine, but yes.

"Is that a Ferrari?"

"Well, more like a Yugo, but Yes."

You're being pretty obtuse.I'm not surprised.

I like you, Andy. You're just flat out being weird here.

 

[Deepster]

Ok I'm Christian just so you know. In your second paragraph you said they are free to believe. Yet now when they do, your thinking about squashing it. Let it run its course. Most Christians are good people believe it or not. Heck she may even convert you. Yes, she will probably worry you aren't going to heaven but that shouldn't bother you as you don't believe in heaven.

I'm divorced and Atheist. My ex-wife found religion after we split and is a very devout Baptist now.

My daughter (11.5) is very upset that we're not going to be in heaven together when we eventually die. When I said "If I live my life well and I am a good person, it shouldn't matter. If I'm wrong and there is a heaven, why wouldn't I get in there anyway?" and she came back the following day and said "My Mom said that you can't get into heaven until you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior."

That whole conversation bothers me on many different levels, even if I don't believe in heaven.

 

[Godsbrother]

Born and raised in a Roman Catholic church and went to a catholic grade school. My wife and I attended church when we got married and took the children to church and had them attend CCD until their confirmation.

Once they were in high school we stopped going to church regularly and now do not go at all. My wife is still a lazy believer but I have become agnostic. I don't really buy it anymore because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me but I don't deny the possibility of a God either.

In any case when my daughter was 8-10 years old she had a friend whose parents were ministers of a church and she would attend their services sometimes and joined their youth group for a couple of years. She enjoyed it and we didn't see any harm in it.

She lost interest after a while and it was no big deal...

 

[Todd Andrews]

Thanks for the advice everyone. There seems to be an absolute consensus- so I'll take it.

Uhhh...not really.

My advice is to let her explore this new-found "faith" but make sure you discuss it with her. Ask her what they are teaching her at this church and respectfully offer counterpoints. There is nothing wrong with her being exposed to religion but make sure she is also exposed to reality.

Imagine it this way: If she joined the Young Republicans or Junior Tea-Partiers you would probably have some interesting discussions around the dinner table, no? It shouldn't be any different with her finding Jeebus.

Im pretty sure it was implied that he has discussions about it with his daughter.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Agnostic who, at times, hyperboles his persona into being an Atheist. Wife was born and raised Catholic, but I wouldn't consider her a practicing one. She gets to church once in a blue moon. Not just the big holidays, but not every Sunday either.

My son, currently a sophomore in HS, has always attended Catholic School solely because it's the best education he can get where we live.

Around 2nd grade he started asking questions about faith in general. Since I never really partook

In any church events he, in turn, also started question my beliefs

Once he started asking questions, we've always been up front with him about why he attends school there and what our expectations in him are.

First and foremost, the aforementioned quality of education is why he attends the school he does and that anything theological is secondary.

And our expectations, outside of his performance at school, is to think independently and that he's free to form his own beliefs. That his Father knows his aren't 100% correct and so does his Mother

He's definitely turned out Agnostic.

 

[Bucky86]

Be careful...religious chicks usually end up being extra promiscuous.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Ok I'm Christian just so you know. In your second paragraph you said they are free to believe. Yet now when they do, your thinking about squashing it. Let it run its course. Most Christians are good people believe it or not. Heck she may even convert you. Yes, she will probably worry you aren't going to heaven but that shouldn't bother you as you don't believe in heaven.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

You mean like having adults pushing their mythology on an impressionable child?

Like college?

They push mythology on kids in college?

Well, more like doctrine, but yes.

"Is that a Ferrari?"

"Well, more like a Yugo, but Yes."

You're being pretty obtuse.I'm not surprised.

You think that mythology and doctrine are the same thing? That's not being obtuse...it's being stupid.

I wasn't comparing mythology and doctrine. I was comparing the pushing of either on impressionable youth by those on their respective positions.My daughter had an economics class last year that was such in name only. It was really a political opinion class with only one opinion expressed.

 

[Sweet J]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

You in the DC area?

 

[Meatwad Reloaded]

This is God's way of punishing you for being a heathen. Just look in the mirror every morning and tell yourself 'I deserve this'. Maybe it will go away.