Shooting at Texas school - Kids among victims (7 Viewers)

[fruity pebbles]

Cowards. 

That entire police force is better off moving. No way they're further accepted in that town. 

 

[bigbottom]

Blah blah blah.  Our kids shouldn't have to live in a country where the schools are the equivalent of Fort Knox.  We have a gun epidemic problem.  We need to fix that --  

And this incident shows there will ALWAYS be human error, inadequate protection or reluctant, not properly trained law enforcement.  You will just be trotting out the excuses each time like you are here.  

They shouldn’t have to. But we also need to face reality. I think we need to address this issue with multiple approaches. Enacting additional restrictions with respect to gun purchases, additional funding for detection and treatment of mental illness, and funding to increase school security - including limited access points and fortifying them. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

This thread is moving pretty quickly, but I'm not seeing anybody arguing in favor of turning schools into prisons or fortresses or whatever.  That's obviously not possible.  But things like having a single point of entry -- which can feature some reasonable level of security, like a secure door that requires another person on the other side to buzz you through -- are already ordinary features in new schools, or at least they are around here.  Lots of buildings that need mild forms of security work this way.

I imagine that some older schools might not be easily retrofitted this way.  That's fine.  We don't have to impose a blanket solution everywhere right now.  Maybe we're talking about things that just become standard in new school design.  

 

[MAC_32]

We’ve had two mass shootings where there have been a lot of clues on social media about how unstable these killers are. The party of social workers should have sniffed this out a mile away.  

We have under funded social workers, which impacts the quantity and quality of supply. We also have under funded educators experiencing increased stress due to our toxic climate, which impacts quantity and quality of supply. We have properly funded law enforcement amidst a hyper toxic climate, which impacts quantity and quality of supply. There's more at play than just that, but those are problems we created and will take a generation to fix (but won't because we are toxic) and cost money we don't have available to spend. Allocating even more dollars to securing our schools more than we have over the last 2 decades is gov't waste. The problem resides from the neck up of an increasing number of our citizens and the ease of access they have to the tools necessary to kill a lot of people very quickly.

 

[BladeRunner]

We have under funded social workers, which impacts the quantity and quality of supply. We also have under funded educators experiencing increased stress due to our toxic climate, which impacts quantity and quality of supply. We have properly funded law enforcement amidst a hyper toxic climate, which impacts quantity and quality of supply. There's more at play than just that, but those are problems we created and will take a generation to fix (but won't because we are toxic) and cost money we don't have available to spend. Allocating even more dollars to securing our schools more than we have over the last 2 decades is gov't waste. The problem resides from the neck up of an increasing number of our citizens and the ease of access they have to the tools necessary to kill a lot of people very quickly.

I have no idea where I would even get fentanyl.

 

[MAC_32]

I have no idea where I would even get fentanyl.

There is one massive difference between this problem and the drug problem. The poor mental health of humans that resort to the latter impacts themselves whereas they also take down a number of innocents with the former. Investing in mental health and improving our toxic climate would in theory help both, but ideals <> reality. Our collective actions indicate we currently have no interest in this investment. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Let's just say we do "harden" the schools.  What do we do about all of the other non-school shootings?  

Harden our supermarkets of course.  Duh.  

Well, we harden all those and spend tons of money, and it still doesn't address the types of mass shootings that are way more common - domestic and gang type shootings.  

 

[unckeyherb]

This thread is moving pretty quickly, but I'm not seeing anybody arguing in favor of turning schools into prisons or fortresses or whatever.  That's obviously not possible.  But things like having a single point of entry -- which can feature some reasonable level of security, like a secure door that requires another person on the other side to buzz you through -- are already ordinary features in new schools, or at least they are around here.  Lots of buildings that need mild forms of security work this way.

I imagine that some older schools might not be easily retrofitted this way.  That's fine.  We don't have to impose a blanket solution everywhere right now.  Maybe we're talking about things that just become standard in new school design.  

There are plenty of school districts with excess Covid funds that could easily pay for all of the measures necessary.  In many cases it’s simply an upgrade/swap out of door hardware, some reworking of entry vestibule layouts, possible install of BAS system to record and allow police to be notified more readily.  The items above ina typical school are not expensive, can mostly be installed with little impact on infrastructure and would absolutely have an impact on viability for these shooters.  
 

Does it solve the problem 100% of the time?  Of course not.  Nothing we do, including some extensive gun confiscation and banning will do so.  

It’s also not the only thing we should do.  Universal background checks, elimination of private tot private sales w/out NICS, delayed wait times are all things I’m in support of as a multiple gun owner and CC permit holder.  
 

It’s not a zero sum game.  “Hardening” of schools, while unappetizing is clearly necessary.  Just because you say, “we shouldn’t have to do this” doesn’t make it so.  We should also implement some better checks on gun purchases.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Bingo.

Yep, let's burden everyone's local community with financial burden to "harden" the 100,000 schools in this country.  (Who hands out the buzzwords? The NRA?).  Then the next jerkoff unloads at the homecoming football game. 

Welp, we better beef up security at these games, maybe we can get some hand to hand combat training for these game officials. I see no reason these officials cannot call a game, and also grapple with a lunatic in body armor. 

This is part of the point.     Similar people are saying that it's dumb to ban a gun because they will pick up something else, but somehow it makes sense to keep beefing up security everywhere as thought it's also going to stop it (like you said, what about parking lots, baseball games, etc..  where the kids are gathered but on inside the school).    

At the very least, anybody who is talking about this and not even attempt through out solutions about red flags, better mental health care (and what we need to be looking for), are just blowing smoke up people's asses.  

BTW, phil and others are using a common phrase.  When I ran the video store we had ways to "harden the target" or the store for security.   Don't automatically make the leap that people mean prison like conditions.  For us it's as simple as looking all guests in the eye and making sure they know they were seen.   Yes, it could be an armed guard, but it's also little things like making sure all the doors are locked, having a teacher walking around, etc..  

 

[KarmaPolice]

Interesting. The “hardening” nonsense also probably promotes anxiety/paranoia in kids, leading to fearful adults who buy more firearms. Just another log on the psychiatric fire we’ve created for our children.

The active shooter drills do.  They've done some studies and they've found spikes in axiety and fear around these events.  We've also been doing them for years, and there hasn't been a dent in the number or lethality of the shootings.   

I know people who are around them feel safe, but what signal does it give to a 7 year old kid that one day an armed guard or two show up at their school?   For every kid that would view that as now being safe that somebody was there, i'd guess there is one that would take that as meaning their school is likely to have something happen otherwise why are they there?  

 

[KarmaPolice]

We’ve had two mass shootings where there have been a lot of clues on social media about how unstable these killers are. The party of social workers should have sniffed this out a mile away.  

You are better than this, gb.

Gotta ask everybody here.   Do you know what to do if you see post you think goes to far?   Who would you tell, and what is your threshold?     Didn't they do their job in the case of Buffalo - police were contacted, they brought him in for eval, etc.  

Problems are that there is not much communication and background passed around so it's hard to weed out the high level threats.  We have the system for a little bit of eval and acute care, but if they haven't committed a crime and aren't an immediate threat to themselves and others they get to go.   Hence why many of us are focused a bit more on the Red Flags, expanding them, and trying to add in information that doesn't allow them to legally purchase their guns.  I know your retort is that they will just try to get them illegally - I get that, but at least by doing these things we are signaling to our citizens that we don't think it's OK.    IMO are focus needs to be on making it MUCH harder to legally purchase guns vs. doing reactive measure for when they inevitably by these guns.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

At the very least we need to find a way to include info from the minors in the background checks.   Hard to raise red flags the day after your 18th birthday unless you got arrested on your 18th birthday.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

This thread is moving pretty quickly, but I'm not seeing anybody arguing in favor of turning schools into prisons or fortresses or whatever.  That's obviously not possible.  But things like having a single point of entry -- which can feature some reasonable level of security, like a secure door that requires another person on the other side to buzz you through -- are already ordinary features in new schools, or at least they are around here.  Lots of buildings that need mild forms of security work this way.

I imagine that some older schools might not be easily retrofitted this way.  That's fine.  We don't have to impose a blanket solution everywhere right now.  Maybe we're talking about things that just become standard in new school design.  

Yes, and I've jumped to this in the past as well, people are getting too carried away with the more securit = prison stuff.   My daughter's school has this as well.  Not perfect, but it's something and it also helps deter other types of crime, not just mass shootings.  

 

[FairWarning]

We have under funded social workers, which impacts the quantity and quality of supply. We also have under funded educators experiencing increased stress due to our toxic climate, which impacts quantity and quality of supply. We have properly funded law enforcement amidst a hyper toxic climate, which impacts quantity and quality of supply. There's more at play than just that, but those are problems we created and will take a generation to fix (but won't because we are toxic) and cost money we don't have available to spend. Allocating even more dollars to securing our schools more than we have over the last 2 decades is gov't waste. The problem resides from the neck up of an increasing number of our citizens and the ease of access they have to the tools necessary to kill a lot of people very quickly.

I thought some of the defund policing was going to social workers, no?  I know they should make more,don’t know how How much of a bump in pay they received. 

 

[FairWarning]

Yes, and I've jumped to this in the past as well, people are getting too carried away with the more securit = prison stuff.   My daughter's school has this as well.  Not perfect, but it's something and it also helps deter other types of crime, not just mass shootings.  

It sucks because kids can’t be kids anymore.  Actually they haven’t been for a generation.

 

[dickey moe]

Had breakfast with some friends yesterday, one of whom is a game warden who conducts active shooter training and who happened to be in two active shooter situations last year. He told us that in such a situation, you are trained to engage and to try to eliminate the threat, not wait. I'm reluctant to jump to conclusions without complete information, but it looks like the Uvalde police officers were either incompetently trained or succumbed to paralysis of inaction. 

 

[timschochet]

This thread is moving pretty quickly, but I'm not seeing anybody arguing in favor of turning schools into prisons or fortresses or whatever.  That's obviously not possible.  But things like having a single point of entry -- which can feature some reasonable level of security, like a secure door that requires another person on the other side to buzz you through -- are already ordinary features in new schools, or at least they are around here.  Lots of buildings that need mild forms of security work this way.

I imagine that some older schools might not be easily retrofitted this way.  That's fine.  We don't have to impose a blanket solution everywhere right now.  Maybe we're talking about things that just become standard in new school design.  

Just a question that occurs to me- not trying to argue against the idea but…wouldn’t a single point of entry be dangerous in case of fires? 

 

[timschochet]

Just a question that occurs to me- not trying to argue against the idea but…wouldn’t a single point of entry be dangerous in case of fires? 

Never mind. I just realized that it’s ENTRY not exits, Duhh

 

[MAC_32]

I thought some of the defund policing was going to social workers, no?  I know they should make more,don’t know how How much of a bump in pay they received. 

Were these just talking points? Were they put into action in more than a small sample of urban communities? And what's a reasonable timeline to expect tangible changes in our data? I ask those questions emphasizing that this is only one tiny piece of the puzzle. It's taken us decades for the problem to develop into what it is now, so we should expect a similar timeline and consistent investment in order for changes to appear in our data. Are we patient enough to see that through? And adapting as new information becomes available rather than resorting to finger pointing?

 

[Max Power]

Had breakfast with some friends yesterday, one of whom is a game warden who conducts active shooter training and who happened to be in two active shooter situations last year. He told us that in such a situation, you are trained to engage and to try to eliminate the threat, not wait. I'm reluctant to jump to conclusions without complete information, but it looks like the Uvalde police officers were either incompetently trained or succumbed to paralysis of inaction. 

There was a twitter thread posted about Uvalde's training and policy. It was in their policy to engage (even if alone) the shooter. They didnt follow their own policy on active shooter engagements. They had just trained on it two months prior as well, so they knew.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Just a question that occurs to me- not trying to argue against the idea but…wouldn’t a single point of entry be dangerous in case of fires? 

There are still many doors in the school.   What they are talking about is all the doors should be locked, and to gain entry to the school you have to go to the main door and buzzed into the school.  Usually there is a camera there, or a line of site  where somebody in the office can see you, talk to, and then buzz you in.    

Kids can still use other doors for fire drills and recess and such.  Not perfect, but it's something.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

Were these just talking points? Were they put into action in more than a small sample of urban communities? And what's a reasonable timeline to expect tangible changes in our data? I ask those questions emphasizing that this is only one tiny piece of the puzzle. It's taken us decades for the problem to develop into what it is now, so we should expect a similar timeline and consistent investment in order for changes to appear in our data. Are we patient enough to see that through? And adapting as new information becomes available rather than resorting to finger pointing?

Exactly, those where models of what people were suggesting that they would like the police forces look like in the long run, but besides a few examples like the town out east, I don't think many places actually starting enacting those types of measures.  

Also combing SM posts online is way different than what a social worker would be doing.  It's not their job to read everybody's online posts.  

 

[FairWarning]

Were these just talking points? Were they put into action in more than a small sample of urban communities? And what's a reasonable timeline to expect tangible changes in our data? I ask those questions emphasizing that this is only one tiny piece of the puzzle. It's taken us decades for the problem to develop into what it is now, so we should expect a similar timeline and consistent investment in order for changes to appear in our data. Are we patient enough to see that through? And adapting as new information becomes available rather than resorting to finger pointing?

If it was talking points, it was from all of the cities.  They control their funding.  Yes, it will take years. It’s also up to the younger voters to see it thru.

 

[timschochet]

Were these just talking points? Were they put into action in more than a small sample of urban communities? And what's a reasonable timeline to expect tangible changes in our data? I ask those questions emphasizing that this is only one tiny piece of the puzzle. It's taken us decades for the problem to develop into what it is now, so we should expect a similar timeline and consistent investment in order for changes to appear in our data. Are we patient enough to see that through? And adapting as new information becomes available rather than resorting to finger pointing?

“Defund police” barely took place anywhere. 99% of all discussion these days about “defund police” is simply a means to attack liberalism; same with “Antifa”, “CRT”, etc. 

 

[FairWarning]

There are still many doors in the school.   What they are talking about is all the doors should be locked, and to gain entry to the school you have to go to the main door and buzzed into the school.  Usually there is a camera there, or a line of site  where somebody in the office can see you, talk to, and then buzz you in.    

Kids can still use other doors for fire drills and recess and such.  Not perfect, but it's something.  

Nursing homes have this setup.

 

[FairWarning]

“Defund police” barely took place anywhere. 99% of all discussion these days about “defund police” is simply a means to attack liberalism; same with “Antifa”, “CRT”, etc. 

I’m tLking about the summer of 2020, most every big city mayor brought it up and tied it to more social workers.  Google any of them, same with Biden, AOC…

 

[Max Power]

There was a twitter thread posted about Uvalde's training and policy. It was in their policy to engage (even if alone) the shooter. They didnt follow their own policy on active shooter engagements. They had just trained on it two months prior as well, so they knew.

https://mobile.twitter.com/bymikebaker/status/1530357140191186944?s=21

 

[timschochet]

There are still many doors in the school.   What they are talking about is all the doors should be locked, and to gain entry to the school you have to go to the main door and buzzed into the school.  Usually there is a camera there, or a line of site  where somebody in the office can see you, talk to, and then buzz you in.    

Kids can still use other doors for fire drills and recess and such.  Not perfect, but it's something.  

Thank you. I understood my error right after I wrote it, but I appreciate the explanation anyhow. 
Schools come in all shapes and sizes. Some are far more open than others. Most of the schools in my area are groups of buildings on large parcels of land the size of small parks. In the morning and late afternoon hundreds of kids are walking to and from school from all different directions. A single point of entry would be quite difficult to enact. I suppose you’d have to build a secure fence around the entire area. 

 

[timschochet]

I’m tLking about the summer of 2020, most every big city mayor brought it up and tied it to more social workers.  Google any of them, same with Biden, AOC…

Every big city mayor? Not buying that. And the part about Biden is simply a lie. Neither Biden nor any other responsible Democrat ever spoke in favor of “defund police”. Challenge you to prove me wrong. 

 

[timschochet]

There’s another problem with hardening schools. If a shooter wants to kill children he doesn’t need to actually enter the school. All he needs to do is go there when kids are arriving or leaving- single point of entry means there will be hundreds of kids milling around outside, standing in line to enter, etc. Easy targets for a weapon that can spray bullets. 

 

[Yankee23Fan]

There’s another problem with hardening schools. If a shooter wants to kill children he doesn’t need to actually enter the school. All he needs to do is go there when kids are arriving or leaving- single point of entry means there will be hundreds of kids milling around outside, standing in line to enter, etc. Easy targets for a weapon that can spray bullets. 

1 untrained 18 year old scared an entire police force, showed them to be the cowards they are, and 18 kids died. But let's continue talking about doors and not the weapon that was so scary to an entire trained police force that instead of facing it with all their training they let children die.

Please...continue, what color is the door?

 

[Mile High]

There’s another problem with hardening schools. If a shooter wants to kill children he doesn’t need to actually enter the school. All he needs to do is go there when kids are arriving or leaving- single point of entry means there will be hundreds of kids milling around outside, standing in line to enter, etc. Easy targets for a weapon that can spray bullets. 

Yeah. I pick my granddaughter up from school. I guess it would be considered "Harden". One point of entry, all other doors locked, on site resource officer. At 3:04 pm there are 100s of kids and parents out in the open.

 

[timschochet]

1 untrained 18 year old scared an entire police force, showed them to be the cowards they are, and 18 kids died. But let's continue talking about doors and not the weapon that was so scary to an entire trained police force that instead of facing it with all their training they let children die.

Please...continue, what color is the door?

Well it was red but I want to paint it black. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Thank you. I understood my error right after I wrote it, but I appreciate the explanation anyhow. 
Schools come in all shapes and sizes. Some are far more open than others. Most of the schools in my area are groups of buildings on large parcels of land the size of small parks. In the morning and late afternoon hundreds of kids are walking to and from school from all different directions. A single point of entry would be quite difficult to enact. I suppose you’d have to build a secure fence around the entire area. 

Exactly.   We live in a small town in WI.  There's been several days I've gone to pick up my kids for an appointment or when they are sick and there are dozens of kids outside or coming in and out of side doors or classes outside.    It helps, it's simple, but IMO it's more for appearances or to stop other crimes than a mass shooting.   It's why I am not for too many things that I don't think would be effective, probably cost a ton, when our schools are already underfunded.   

Having 1-2 armed guards in every school might stop a mass shooting, but it didn't prevent a kid from getting to that point to want to do that, and it also eats up a lot of resources to prevent one thing, that while scary and tragic,  also technically has miniscule odds of happening to begin with.   It just doesn't make sense to me to have that our primary focus of action and $. 

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Well it was red but I want to paint it black. 

Funny.

The door at my son's school was red too. When the shots were heard and they locked it down my son hid under his desk with a history book and his history teacher.

While the gym teacher got unto his car and drove through the fields and trees towards the shooter without hesitation. 

Luckily it was an idiot shooting into the air playing with his new toy. It's nice to know that my kids former gym teacher is braver than an entire trained police force.

But let's keep joking about it and letting the cowards that need big guns to feel like men continue to lead the narrative while children die and we have to buy bullet broof backpacks.

By all means....what shade of red? Ours was darker...

 

[KarmaPolice]

There’s another problem with hardening schools. If a shooter wants to kill children he doesn’t need to actually enter the school. All he needs to do is go there when kids are arriving or leaving- single point of entry means there will be hundreds of kids milling around outside, standing in line to enter, etc. Easy targets for a weapon that can spray bullets. 

Like I pointed out as well - school shooters tend to study and copy others.   Ones they interview still bring up Columbine, the most common date for a school shooting is the 20th of the month (Columbine again), etc.      One of my concerns is all it would take is one to do this like you said, and then we start seeing more.  

 

[timschochet]

Funny.

The door at my son's school was red too. When the shots were heard and they locked it down my son hid under his desk with a history book and his history teacher.

While the gym teacher got unto his car and drove through the fields and trees towards the shooter without hesitation. 

Luckily it was an idiot shooting into the air playing with his new toy. It's nice to know that my kids former gym teacher is braver than an entire trained police force.

But let's keep joking about it and letting the cowards that need big guns to feel like men continue to lead the narrative while children die and we have to buy bullet broof backpacks.

By all means....what shade of red? Ours was darker...

Yankee I agree with your sentiments and share your anger and passion. I was attempting a bit of humor to lighten this very dark thread. 

 

[FairWarning]

Every big city mayor? Not buying that. And the part about Biden is simply a lie. Neither Biden nor any other responsible Democrat ever spoke in favor of “defund police”. Challenge you to prove me wrong. 

Find the ones who didn’t then, they are all D and they all pander to their masses.

 

[Cheese and Crackers]

There’s another problem with hardening schools. If a shooter wants to kill children he doesn’t need to actually enter the school. All he needs to do is go there when kids are arriving or leaving- single point of entry means there will be hundreds of kids milling around outside, standing in line to enter, etc. Easy targets for a weapon that can spray bullets. 

Similar situation when thousands are crammed together in slow moving lines to pass thru the security theater checkpoints to get to their seats in our "hardened" baseball stadiums.

 

[kwille]

This singular focus on hardening schools is at best a band aid reactionary approach to the root issue: Firepower that is WAY too easily accessible by people who have no business having it. 'Hardening'  (which involves planning, funding, implementing, and maintaining) the 130,000+ public and private K-12 schools across the country will only shift the target and weaknesses will always be exploited (see the Vegas outdoor concert shooting as a prime example, could have just as easily been a school playground). Where does it stop? I'm open to exploring anything that will protect schools but I'm not so naive to think that turning a hundred thirty thousand schools into bunkers will solve anything.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Similar situation when thousands are crammed together in slow moving lines to pass thru the security theater checkpoints to get to their seats in our "hardened" baseball stadiums.

We keep talking about ballparks.  One big important difference is these types of shooters typically pick places associated with a grievance of theirs - hence why a % are current or former students of the school.    Things like ballpark security is more stopping drunken fans from fighting and shooting each other than it is for stopping a mass shooter.    Like people have pointed out, if somebody wanted to damage at a ballgame, there are 1000s chilling outside tailgating or while entering the stadium.      

From what I've read, it's not because the ballpark is "hardened" that there isn't mass shootings there, it's because the shooters don't have an association or grievance against that target, and they don't want to shoot up a ballpark in general.  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

At the very least we need to find a way to include info from the minors in the background checks.   Hard to raise red flags the day after your 18th birthday unless you got arrested on your 18th birthday.  

Good point, but this is one of those things that can be very difficult to implement in practice.  How would this work alongside our normal (and good) practice of expunging juvenile offenses?  We don't want a criminal charge committed at age 14 (say) to follow a person through their whole life.  

Sorry if this comes across as quibbling or something -- it isn't intended that way.

 

[timschochet]

Find the ones who didn’t then, they are all D and they all pander to their masses.

Well this took about 2 seconds. Eric Adams for one: 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/defying-defund-police-calls-democrat-adams-leads-nyc-mayors-race-2021-06-23/

stop wasting time with this nonsense. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

This singular focus on hardening schools is at best a band aid reactionary approach to the root issue: Firepower that is WAY too easily accessible by people who have no business having it. 'Hardening'  (which involves planning, funding, implementing, and maintaining) the 130,000+ public and private K-12 schools across the country will only shift the target and weaknesses will always be exploited (see the Vegas outdoor concert shooting as a prime example, could have just as easily been a school playground). Where does it stop? I'm open to exploring anything that will protect schools but I'm not so naive to think that turning a hundred thirty thousand schools into bunkers will solve anything.

The root issue is figuring out why are people so angry and hateful that they want to shoot up a school or store or anything else. Gun restrictions just make it more difficult which is a good thing but there’s too much focus on the weapon and not enough on why the US is full of hateful people

 

[timschochet]

The root issue is figuring out why are people so angry and hateful that they want to shoot up a school or store or anything else. Gun restrictions just make it more difficult which is a good thing but there’s too much focus on the weapon and not enough on why the US is full of hateful people

I disagree that this is the root issue, because I don’t think the US is full of hateful people. I think we have pretty much the same amount of hateful people as in any free society- a small amount. The difference is that in this country the hateful people have access to weapons that they don’t in most other free societies. THAT is, IMO, the root issue.

Too much focus on the weapon? We’re not focusing on it enough. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I disagree that this is the root issue, because I don’t think the US is full of hateful people. I think we have pretty much the same amount of hateful people as in any free society- a small amount. The difference is that in this country the hateful people have access to weapons that they don’t in most other free societies. THAT is, IMO, the root issue.

Too much focus on the weapon? We’re not focusing on it enough. 

Yeah violent people shooting up schools and stores and gangs in every city are loving individuals that happened to fun a fun toy they want to test out.  

 

[massraider]

Thank you. I understood my error right after I wrote it, but I appreciate the explanation anyhow. 
Schools come in all shapes and sizes. Some are far more open than others. Most of the schools in my area are groups of buildings on large parcels of land the size of small parks. In the morning and late afternoon hundreds of kids are walking to and from school from all different directions. A single point of entry would be quite difficult to enact. I suppose you’d have to build a secure fence around the entire area. 

Exactly.

People walk in and out of schools all day long. Any kid that goes there will know how to get in, and which doors might open. 

Every period there's a gym class, a door pops open. 

Plus, ummm,  windows? 

Laughable that this is considered even part of a solution. Maybe it'll keep a drug dealer out. Not some guy with 2,000 rounda burning a hole in his pocket

 

[timschochet]

Yeah violent people shooting up schools and stores and gangs in every city are loving individuals that happened to fun a fun toy they want to test out.  

I don’t really understand what you’re trying to say here and it certainly doesn’t have to do with anything I wrote. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I don’t really understand what you’re trying to say here and it certainly doesn’t have to do with anything I wrote. 

I’m basically saying you only have the ability to scream guns and try to get people to vote accordingly.  Think a little harder than that and try to figure out why there’s so much violence in America.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

Good point, but this is one of those things that can be very difficult to implement in practice.  How would this work alongside our normal (and good) practice of expunging juvenile offenses?  We don't want a criminal charge committed at age 14 (say) to follow a person through their whole life.  

Sorry if this comes across as quibbling or something -- it isn't intended that way.

Not how I took it, and from you this is not needed.  

IMO this would tie into either upping the required age for purchasing firearms, or like in [icon's] post, having the training and backgrounds tied into the local LEOs and the idea in the book about having a crisis team in schools that should also include local police somehow.    They should be aware through these means if there are kids who are going through a crisis of some sort or at a higher risk of hurting themselves and others right as they turn 18.    

I agree that something at 14 shouldn't be following us around for life, but if specific events make it so that somebody can't legally buying guns (even if it's for a few years and after they go through some steps?) I don't think is unreasonable.