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It was one of a series of three. The other two dealt with borderline players and the ones he voted for.Posnanski took a lot of heat for his Paterno stance but his baseball material is a good mix of modern analysis and traditional lore. Sports on Earth is a pretty strong new site. There are a enough unemployed professional sportswriters around that we shouldn't have to bother with moron sites like Bleacher Report.
Bernie Williams was a nice baseball player, but he was not even a border line hof candidate. Never finished in the top 5 in mvp voting, and only once in the top 10 in his entire career.He led the AL in one offensive category (BA), once.Had a few gg's.I suppose you think Paul O'Neill was slighted too?
Better RRHOF candidate than Jack McDowell or Ben Broussard?
Yeah Im sure the HOF mentions the juiced ball era'Matthias said:If only there was some place dedicated to baseball history that someone could go and read about these types of things.That was always the speculation but was it ever proven or admitted to? Why did they juice the balls in 1987? Why did they only do so for one year?i thought this was a well-known consensus
Probably not in the "one hour tour".Yeah Im sure the HOF mentions the juiced ball era'Matthias said:If only there was some place dedicated to baseball history that someone could go and read about these types of things.That was always the speculation but was it ever proven or admitted to? Why did they juice the balls in 1987? Why did they only do so for one year?
O'Neill didn't have close to the career of Bernie. I'm not saying Bernie should be in the Hall. I'm saying he should at least be on the ballot for more than one year.
That's a consequence of the system. If he (or Lofton) made the 5% threshold and were on the 2014 ballot, what's the difference in the grand scheme of things? I don't think anybody has ever climbed from 5% to 75% in their 15 year stretch. Blyleven dipped as low as 14% in his second year of eligibility.There's something wrong when the best a system meant to honor very good players can do is disrespect those players by kicking them off the ballot ingloriously after one shot. But I don't think this is the biggest problem the BBHof and BBWAA are facing toay.O'Neill didn't have close to the career of Bernie. I'm not saying Bernie should be in the Hall. I'm saying he should at least be on the ballot for more than one year.
Agreed that it's not close to their biggest problem right now. Also, you're right, in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter. I just find it sad. Bernie and Lofton basically get dismissed the same way Sele and Cirillo and Todd Walker were. I just don't see how that adds up. I mean, Bernie was the CF and clean-up hitter for 4 WS teams. Lofton could be considered one of the top 10 CFs of all time. Similar arguments could be made for others in previous years.That's a consequence of the system. If he (or Lofton) made the 5% threshold and were on the 2014 ballot, what's the difference in the grand scheme of things? I don't think anybody has ever climbed from 5% to 75% in their 15 year stretch. Blyleven dipped as low as 14% in his second year of eligibility.There's something wrong when the best a system meant to honor very good players can do is disrespect those players by kicking them off the ballot ingloriously after one shot. But I don't think this is the biggest problem the BBHof and BBWAA are facing toay.O'Neill didn't have close to the career of Bernie. I'm not saying Bernie should be in the Hall. I'm saying he should at least be on the ballot for more than one year.
It's just another thing that leaves me completely disenfranchised with the whole process and the HOF as a whole. I remember how excited and happy I was when I first got the chance to go to Cooperstown in 1995. Will never forget that day. Was the same way when I returned in 1999. Now, I don't know that I'll ever go back.
root root root for the home team, if you do.
A lot of museums are running a deficit these days. Endowments have shrunk and operating and acquisition costs are increasing. There's a limit to how much the museum can charge, especially for kids.Being located out in the middle of nowhere doesn't help matters either. It takes a pretty big commitment for almost all visitors to get there. There's virtually no opportunity to get walk-up traffic on a rainy day.
I can't wait to see the #######(s) that keep Griffey from being unanimous explaining their rationale.
Or Maddux.
Wait, you mean offensive spikes can happen independent of PEDs?!? You learn the strangest things.
if ballots are still secret, then i doubt we will know who left them off. If by chance anyone does reveal a Maddux-free or Junior-free ballot, the rationale will be "there were only 10 spots, and this ballot is loaded, and i knew he would get in anyway".
I don't understand why you can speculate on a guy like Piazza or Bagwell, but no one does on Griffey, Maddux or Thomas. Its not like Jason Grimsely reminds me of a bodybuilder.
Wait, Lofton didn't get above the threshold to stay on? That's insane.
I've always thought Thomas was probably a juicer. ANd I've never understood why a guy like Griffey - whose body began breaking down in the same way as other steroid guys like Bagwell - is not included in the conversation.
Lots of right in that comment. The moment Alex Sanchez (the first player suspended under 2005 rules) pissed hot, everyone was suspect.
this statement confuses me. i thought PEDs were supposed to prevent/delay that body breakdown. perhaps you can elaborate on what you mean by "in the same way".
Pettitte's stats didn't even change. Just goes to show, ta never know
But don't most stats change especially as you get older. Shouldn't you have a "decline" phase that the Bonds, Clemens, Pettittes didn't have?Plus he was Roger's butt buddy so...
That's exactly the problem.
Their point is that he should have declined sooner. Of course, applying those same rules to players since the 60s and 70s, you have to suspect players like Ryan and Aaron. I mean, look at the fury Ryan laid down on Ventura and tell me that wasn't 'roid rage.
not necessarily. it's an option for each voter.
That would be so weak to not vote for him AND not admit it.
I know. And I'm agreeing with them. I guess I'm not explaining myself well.My point is, people were onto guys like Bonds, Sosa, McGwire because they got ridiculously huge. They were onto guys like Clemens and Brady Anderson because they had abnormal spikes at odd times. Pettitte was under the radar and nobody really questioned anything about him, much like with Ryan. Their stats remained consistent from year to year. After the fact, yes we all look at it and say "Hey where was the decline phase". But at the time, nobody was questioning Pettitte and wondering if he was on the juice.So like I said, if a guy like Pettitte can slide in under the radar with nary a whisper about him, then we need to question every single guy in the league. Maybe a guy only hit 2 HR in 600 ABs. But maybe without juice, he was no better than a AA player. Maybe a guy didn't decline at age 35 but he should have, that is enough evidence to at least question it.
Guy is dumb as a rock, maybe he just forgot.'Matthias said:Sure. Maybe he did. But as of right now, there's no evidence or allegation that he did. So I'm not sure how you could use him as an example like MB did above: If Pettitte can slide under the radar, that we have to question everyone. I don't count what we know about Pettitte as a good example of someone who successfully slid under the radar. As far as we know, Pettitte slid under the radar because he didn't really do steroids.FWIW, I'd be surprised if Pettitte admitted to doing steroids in the way and time that he did and then categorically deny doing them any other time while throwing Clemens under the bus. But it's possible.'Daywalker said:Maybe video footage will leak one day of him injecting throughout his playing career.'Matthias said:
misrememberedGuy is dumb as a rock, maybe he just forgot.'Matthias said:Sure. Maybe he did. But as of right now, there's no evidence or allegation that he did. So I'm not sure how you could use him as an example like MB did above: If Pettitte can slide under the radar, that we have to question everyone. I don't count what we know about Pettitte as a good example of someone who successfully slid under the radar. As far as we know, Pettitte slid under the radar because he didn't really do steroids.FWIW, I'd be surprised if Pettitte admitted to doing steroids in the way and time that he did and then categorically deny doing them any other time while throwing Clemens under the bus. But it's possible.'Daywalker said:Maybe video footage will leak one day of him injecting throughout his playing career.'Matthias said:
Love Kuip, lots of late night hours spent watching the Giants over the years and I think he does an awesome job. Staats is excellent, and got a soft spot for him as a throwback to his MSG days announcing for the Yanks when I was a kid. Not sure what credentials make a HOF broadcaster, but I'm a fan of those two.
second vote for Staats, met him a few times, just a solid dude. HOFer, I don't know who is though its semi subjective. I also WOULD vote for Hawk...YESSSSS.
