Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Don't get me wrong, I love the Fister. Now I get to see him with my Nats season ticket package, so he'll still be in my life. 
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***Detroit Tigers thread: 1st pick yet again, this is not fun*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Doctor Detroit
- Start date
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Here is the real question What will Fister have more of. Hits at the plate or hit batters? I like the way Fister swings the bat.Don't get me wrong, I love the Fister. Now I get to see him with my Nats season ticket package, so he'll still be in my life.
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igbomb
Footballguy
Holy crap.
Look, I'm not going to pretend that the guy was the second coming of Greg Maddux, but to argue that he was only good because his ERA and WHIP trended up is silly.
He was 9th in WAR amongst all MLB pitchers over the last three years, just behind David Price and Scherzer and ahead of guys like Cole Hamels and Zack Greinke.
Even this last year, his worst as a Tigers starter, he was 13th in MLB in WAR. All of this for a guy that is top 5 in MLB at GB% yet had the worst infield defense in the game behind him.
He has pitched like a #1 starter each of the last three years. He's at worst a #2 on most teams.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Fister is a middle of the rotation pitcher, nothing more and nothing less. He's the #4 pitcher on the Nats, there are probably a handful of teams where he's a #2. WAR shmar, he's a good pitcher who has played on really good teams. He'll likely peak this year and then steadily regress from there and someone is going to pay him a ton of money to be a solid but not spectacular starter in 2016. He's not Cole Hamels or Zach Grienke, not even close.
igbomb
Footballguy
I'm not sure what being on good teams has to do with it. I don't pay attention to win totals, and I'd like to see anyone make an argument about how the Tigers offense helped make his life easier while ignoring that the infield defense behind him was garbage for his entire stay.
I get that people want to give Dombrowski the benefit of the doubt. I do as well as he has been fantastic for this team. But getting Fister in that trade with Seattle was one of his best moves and this could very well turn into one of his worst. If nothing else, if he was hell-bent on trading Fister to get salary relief, I think the consensus around the league was that he could have gotten more if he had looked further or waited longer.
And folks can call Fister mid-rotation, but a 3.30 ERA over three years in the AL is good for 10th in that time. So ignore WAR and he's still a fantastic pitcher. Couple that with a guy that relies less on speed and more on ground-balls and control and he will likely age very well.
Smyly will be a great #4, very similar to Fister. Smyly is what gave the Tigers the luxury of being able to deal a starting pitcher the quality of Fister. But it will take some incredible developments for the Tigers to ever be considered getting the better end of that deal.Doctor Detroit said:
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
No it won't, that's what everyone is missing. If Robbie Ray turns into a decent starting pitcher (like Porcello decent), they at least break even. If Ray is better than Porcello, they win going away because of salary and team control.
False Start
Footballguy
Tigers lost a lot of talent and barely replaced it with anything. We swapped Kinsler for Fielder and by doing so lost Infante. We lost Peralta and we didn't get an extra outfielder and are still running Dirks or flavor of the week out there in LF and hired a marquee name for manager. At least they attacked one major need in closer, but he is up there in age and is a stop gap.
Not having high hopes this year. If not for the starting pitching they would struggle to compete. Expect a lot of intentional walks for Cabrera this year with zero protection. I'm a fan of VMart but people are not worried about him. They will challenge him everytime. Fielder while somewhat unproductive last year, some pitchers did not want to go toe to toe with him and he protected Cabrera. I wont get into losing Fister, he was solid for the Tigers. Whip and Era is not everything, he was good when he had to me.
2013---
Jackson
Hunter
Cabrera
Fielder
Martinez
Peralta
Infanta
Avila
Santiago
2014---
Jackson
Hunter
Kinsler
Cabrera
Martinez
Avila
Dirks
Iglesias
Castellanos
That is not a better lineup by any means.
Not having high hopes this year. If not for the starting pitching they would struggle to compete. Expect a lot of intentional walks for Cabrera this year with zero protection. I'm a fan of VMart but people are not worried about him. They will challenge him everytime. Fielder while somewhat unproductive last year, some pitchers did not want to go toe to toe with him and he protected Cabrera. I wont get into losing Fister, he was solid for the Tigers. Whip and Era is not everything, he was good when he had to me.
2013---
Jackson
Hunter
Cabrera
Fielder
Martinez
Peralta
Infanta
Avila
Santiago
2014---
Jackson
Hunter
Kinsler
Cabrera
Martinez
Avila
Dirks
Iglesias
Castellanos
That is not a better lineup by any means.
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
They got Rajei Davis who will steal about 40 bases and platoon with Dirks in LF.
You're also missing the fact of a vastly improved defensive infield with fat ### gone and Iglesias being one of the best shortstops in the game. They are the Vegas favorites to win the AL, so expectations are still pretty high.
You're also missing the fact of a vastly improved defensive infield with fat ### gone and Iglesias being one of the best shortstops in the game. They are the Vegas favorites to win the AL, so expectations are still pretty high.
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
He does have extra value in the NL, I'll admit that.Here is the real question What will Fister have more of. Hits at the plate or hit batters? I like the way Fister swings the bat.Don't get me wrong, I love the Fister. Now I get to see him with my Nats season ticket package, so he'll still be in my life.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I was creeping on a Nats forum and starting to feel a little better about the trade. For the most part they were very glad to land Fister, but also very sad to lose Lombo and Krol. Almost every thread said they will really miss Lombo, and a few threads proclaimed Krol to be a future stud lefty out of the pen. So who knows? I guess if Ray works out we may get the better end.Don't get me wrong, I love the Fister. Now I get to see him with my Nats season ticket package, so he'll still be in my life.
I may have rushed to judgment.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
It's most likely going to be a net loss this year, and next. After that though is where the rubber meets the road because Fister becomes a FA, and Ray should be ready for the bigs. We might not know until 2018 whether this is a win or loss for the Tigers, although we may know this year if it was a win for the Nats if that makes sense. Igbomb hates Lombo but he's an upgrade over Santiago as a utility guy and he still has some growing to do before we know his ceiling. He hit at every level of the minors and he hit pretty well in 2012, just not last year. Krol should be a fine LOOGY.I was creeping on a Nats forum and starting to feel a little better about the trade. For the most part they were very glad to land Fister, but also very sad to lose Lombo and Krol. Almost every thread said they will really miss Lombo, and a few threads proclaimed Krol to be a future stud lefty out of the pen. So who knows? I guess if Ray works out we may get the better end.Don't get me wrong, I love the Fister. Now I get to see him with my Nats season ticket package, so he'll still be in my life.
I may have rushed to judgment.
igbomb
Footballguy
My main beef with Lombardozzi is that they signed Don Kelly the same friggin day as they traded for Lombo. If just one of them is on the roster, I'll just be sulky. But if both of them make the Opening Day roster, I will stomp my feet, ##### all day and then still go to the stupid games and just hope I'm not subjected to both of them on the field at once.It's most likely going to be a net loss this year, and next. After that though is where the rubber meets the road because Fister becomes a FA, and Ray should be ready for the bigs. We might not know until 2018 whether this is a win or loss for the Tigers, although we may know this year if it was a win for the Nats if that makes sense. Igbomb hates Lombo but he's an upgrade over Santiago as a utility guy and he still has some growing to do before we know his ceiling. He hit at every level of the minors and he hit pretty well in 2012, just not last year. Krol should be a fine LOOGY.I was creeping on a Nats forum and starting to feel a little better about the trade. For the most part they were very glad to land Fister, but also very sad to lose Lombo and Krol. Almost every thread said they will really miss Lombo, and a few threads proclaimed Krol to be a future stud lefty out of the pen. So who knows? I guess if Ray works out we may get the better end.Don't get me wrong, I love the Fister. Now I get to see him with my Nats season ticket package, so he'll still be in my life.
I may have rushed to judgment.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Well Kelly is essentially the 5th OFer, so unless you sign another OFer who can play at least two OF positions, he probably makes the team. I think that spot is for Danial Fields in 2015 but he probably isn't quite ready yet.My main beef with Lombardozzi is that they signed Don Kelly the same friggin day as they traded for Lombo. If just one of them is on the roster, I'll just be sulky. But if both of them make the Opening Day roster, I will stomp my feet, ##### all day and then still go to the stupid games and just hope I'm not subjected to both of them on the field at once.It's most likely going to be a net loss this year, and next. After that though is where the rubber meets the road because Fister becomes a FA, and Ray should be ready for the bigs. We might not know until 2018 whether this is a win or loss for the Tigers, although we may know this year if it was a win for the Nats if that makes sense. Igbomb hates Lombo but he's an upgrade over Santiago as a utility guy and he still has some growing to do before we know his ceiling. He hit at every level of the minors and he hit pretty well in 2012, just not last year. Krol should be a fine LOOGY.I was creeping on a Nats forum and starting to feel a little better about the trade. For the most part they were very glad to land Fister, but also very sad to lose Lombo and Krol. Almost every thread said they will really miss Lombo, and a few threads proclaimed Krol to be a future stud lefty out of the pen. So who knows? I guess if Ray works out we may get the better end.Don't get me wrong, I love the Fister. Now I get to see him with my Nats season ticket package, so he'll still be in my life.
I may have rushed to judgment.
Assume they go with 13 position players
Avila
Holiday
Cabrera
Kinsler
Iglesias
Castellanos
Lombardozzi (2B, 3B, LF)
AJAX
Hunter
Dirks
Davis
Kelly
VMart
They don't have a backup SS in there but if Perez is at Toledo you could fill in Lombardozzi at SS for a game and then get Perez on a plane. He'd be the 14th right now and I think Kelly fits because he plays all three OF positions well, Davis probably more LF and CF. Dirks can play all three also. There are still some FA OFers out there, not sure if they are better than Kelly though (Pierre, Torres, Diaz, etc).
Still a bunch of relievers out there, I'm really surprised the Tigers aren't digging around for one more vet bullpen guy. Oliver Perez, Hanrahan, Gregg, Betancourt, and Francisco are all FAs. To be honest, I could make a case for having any of those guys in instead of Coke or anyone else we currently have. Putkonen is supposed to be a guy ready to break out, but he's Mr meltdown as far as I've seen.
Verlander
Scherzer
Sanchez
Smyly
Porcello
Nathan
Rondon
Al Al
Krol
Chamberlain
That's ten with two spots open. One will have to be a long guy, so one of Alvarez, Crosby, or Lobstein probably make it since they are all lefties and can pitch multiple innings.
That still leaves one bullpen spot. I like Ortega's upside, Mercedes is going to be a stud but still raw, and Putkonen who I hate. But if you bring in one of those vets to pitch the 7th or even the 8th, I think the bullpen is improved. My prediction is it's Putkonen, maybe he can finally figure it out. I think Coke is done in Detroit with smokey gone and Krol in house. Only way he makes team is if they send down Krol IMO and is the LOOGY. Krol is only 22-years-old, he might need some more finetuning. They also could turn him back into a starter.
DocGonzo
Footballguy
One local writer is doing a "bold prediction" today and each of the next two mornings regarding the Tigers. Today's is that Duane Below, despite not being on the 40 man roster, will be the guy to win the last bullpen spot. His reasoning actually seems to make a little bit of sense, but they'd have to cut somebody off the 40-man to make it happen.
http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2014/02/3_bold_predictions_michigan_na.html
http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2014/02/3_bold_predictions_michigan_na.html
Greco
Footballguy
Gopher State
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
I like it better. It won't produce as many runs, but it will be able to create more runs in critical late inning situations. Last year, without an extra-base hit, Detroit was not scoring. This year, late in the game you will see more stolen bases, more hit-n-runs, more bunts, and fewer double-plays. The only area that is really hit will be power. VMart will be healthy the whole year. None of the batters are a throw away like Inge, Raburn, or Santiago were. Seriously, you could count on your thumbs the number of times those guys contributed to winning games with their bats. Avilia's health is the biggest wild card, but it is a good sign that VMart will give him more rest. Guys l like to have better seasons than last are AJax and VMart (won't have the bad start). Castellanos could surprise and work his way into the 5th-6th spot. Iglesias will be valuable in the 9th spot, just because he is such a smart ballplayer. His average might not be great, but he will get that key walk or put down that perfect bunt to help create runs.
Apple Juice
Footballguy
Far and away the biggest factor is always Cabrera's health. The wheels came off when the final month when he was hobbling around. If he's the beast he was the first half of the year, offense is still near the top of the AL.
It's probably true that fewer runs will be scored but they'll be more spread out. Starting pitching is still dominant...scratching across a couple runs rather than being shut out 20 times should offset the loss of power in the win/loss column.
I think I'm most interested in Rondon this spring. If he can reach the level he was at for a brief stretch last year before his injury, 8th/9th will be locked down. Just like for every team, protecting leads during 7-8-9 is critical.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Rondon's health also an issue, this is why I'm not sure why we didn't bring in at least one more reliever. Seems like only a matter of time until Rondon meets Dr Andrews. I stand by my thought last year that had they had him in the playoffs, they'd have at least won the Boston series. He's crucial to this team IMO.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I got some Memorial Day weekend tix vs the Rangers. Seems like prices have gone up, but I got right in for both games and got infield box and club seats.
I've never been to an opening day game. I'm offered every year to go to Baltimore for a heavy premium and I pass, even two years ago when they opened vs the Tigers. I went the next day and sat behind home plate for the same money.
igbomb
Footballguy
Frankly, the game is secondary on opening day. I don't go to watch much of anything. It's just a chance for a huge group of guys to get together and wander downtown for about 12 hours. I probably only actually get tickets about half the time but head down every year.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I have been to the last 5 Tiger opening days..but have yet to go to the game. The parking lot next to Chelis is more fun.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
A detailed review of the effect of the Kinsler-Fielder trade and what it means to the Tigers:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb/news/20140227/detroit-tigers-ian-kinsler-prince-fielder-texas-rangers-trade/?eref=sihp
eta: The article addresses issues raised above ...Ausmus' plan to use the improved team speed, the overall lineup flexibility (e.g., VMart options in NL parks), and the benefits beyond the next couple of years.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb/news/20140227/detroit-tigers-ian-kinsler-prince-fielder-texas-rangers-trade/?eref=sihp
eta: The article addresses issues raised above ...Ausmus' plan to use the improved team speed, the overall lineup flexibility (e.g., VMart options in NL parks), and the benefits beyond the next couple of years.
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Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Dirks gone 12 weeks and Davis is not an every day player. ugh
Lombadozzi will be the guy I suppose, but that kills depth if he's out past May.
Lombadozzi will be the guy I suppose, but that kills depth if he's out past May.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
igbomb
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
The groundskeepers are going to have their work cut out for them at Comerica Park. Walked by the stadium this morning. 5 degrees, looks to be a couple of feet of snow covering the playing surface. Read that the whole field has to be sodded before opening day. Then it said the new sod needs 2 weeks to set up. The clock is running.
Apple Juice
Footballguy
I know there are several reasons against it, but I still feel like all opening days should take place on the west coast or in domes. An extra week increases the odds of tolerable weather in cold weather spots.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
What's more concerning is the Tigers don't expect to roster a true backup SS, so Suarez or Perez could start the season at SS but I'm not sure either would normally stick after. This may mean some roster adjusting.
Don Kelly, Avilia, AJAX, Miggy and Castellanos are all having good springs thus far. Drew Smyly not so much.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I think Lombardozzi would be the backup SS if they don't carry another one, but I'm not sure he'd play there unless it was an emergency.Da Guru said:
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I could not agree more. Between domes & warm weather locations it could be done, but instead they want the fans to freeze and players to go from 80 degrees to 40 degrees in one game.Apple Juice said:
tri-man 47
Footballguy
sThe White Sox open at home on the 31st, and while the field is probably snow-free now, they're still expecting another inch of snow this weekend. Chicago still has a 9% chance of up to 10 inches of snow yet this winter, per weatherman Tom Skillings.
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skillz
Footballguy
Well they better come up with something now that Iglesias may be out for most of the season.
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skillz
Footballguy
My concern with Smyly is he's never logged a lot of innings. When they had him in the rotation in 2012 he got blisters and was sidelined during that season. I just wonder whether he's built to pitch a ton of innings as a starter. I guess we will find out.http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2013/05/detroit_tigers_drew_smyly_blis.html
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I say no to Stephen Drew before June 7th. Suarez is a good fielding shortstop, he can fill in until then or until they have a better idea of how much time Iglesias will miss. If he'll be back in August, I say you cobble together the position with Perez, Suarez, Worth, etc. Giving up yet another first rounder is just not a good idea, farm system can't withstand losing another first round talent IMO.
Making a trade for a serviceable guy would be ok also, I'm guessing Dombrowski is making calls around looking for possible guys who might be cut. Cliff Pennington, Joaqin Arias, Caesar Izturis, Maicer Izturis, Nick Punto, etc would cost a lot less than Drew in both salary and compensation. I think signing Drew before June 7th is the wrong move, unless we are going to trade Kinsler and have Drew play 2B when Iglesias comes back. Or move Kinsler to 3B. Still, seems like waiting for Drew regardless is the best move.
Making a trade for a serviceable guy would be ok also, I'm guessing Dombrowski is making calls around looking for possible guys who might be cut. Cliff Pennington, Joaqin Arias, Caesar Izturis, Maicer Izturis, Nick Punto, etc would cost a lot less than Drew in both salary and compensation. I think signing Drew before June 7th is the wrong move, unless we are going to trade Kinsler and have Drew play 2B when Iglesias comes back. Or move Kinsler to 3B. Still, seems like waiting for Drew regardless is the best move.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
No sense in getting in a panic over a #9 hitter no matter how slick he is with the glove. Just use the best defensive guy we have and hope Iggy can be back after the break.
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
I got in about 10:02 and was able to get 4 in 345 AKA the worst seats in the park
Oh and no more injuries please
