Housing While Black (1 Viewer)

[pollardsvision]

Lot's of morons in this thread. Lot's of people who seem to not be able to take a situation and not make it about race.I can't wait til whites are the minority and I can blame all of my problems on racism.

There are also a lot of people who, whenever a Black/White potential racial situation surfaces, immediately take the side of the white guy.

I think you mention the real factor that makes this issue so potentially explosive (in combination with Gates and Obama making it a race issue).This is a he said-she said between two otherwise very respected and trustworthy people (that offer vastly different accounts of the story).It's going to be a "who do you believe more" and the answer in folks own mind is likely to fall on racial lines.The differing accounts of this story lead to ambiguity about whether the arrest was warranted. That's the point that gets debated and that makes sense.The reason I defend the cop rather passionately is not because I think the arrest was warranted, but because this issue has turned into a very dangerous one for him when it shouldn't have (given the evidence we have from either account). Had Gates complained about an unwarranted arrest or that the cop shouldn't have let situation spin out of control, it would be hard to argue against that.Unfortunately, that's not really what Gates did though. He's turned this into an issue that is really dangerous for Crowley's career (and wonderful for Gates').

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

Abuse of power should not be taken lightly. I know that police have a stressful job but I really want to know that they are capable of making good judgement calls too. You can't defend the cop here either. This is exactly the kind of BS that you want a cop to be smart enough to back away but too many would make this same decision every time. This does not make the police look good either and I do think the Cambridge police should at least be addressing that much.

is it good for the local police force to be verbally berated in front of the community they are supposed to protect?

Not good at all but he still has to walk away. There are many different ways the cop could have handled this without arresting the guy. A good police should know when flexing the muscle is warranted and when it is not, and should be smart enough to diffuse the situation another way.

And yet if this dude was white, no one would care...

If the dude was white, with a white chauffeur, wearing a sport coat and a limo parked out front, I'm guessing this would have gone down differently.

Yeah...he wouldn't have racebaited the issue.

 

[Fennis]

racebaited the issue.

We were slowing down.

 

[Da Guru]

racebaited the issue.

We were slowing down.

That will "jump-start" this thread.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

Michelle McPhee is on 96.9FM WTKKK right now... she has followed police activities as a newspaper reporter for years. She'll have some good insight. Listen live.

Summary?

 

[johnnycakes]

If this happened in Colorado he absolutely would have beeen charged and I would suggest had he fought the charge he would have lost had I been his prosecutor, though before i prosecuted this i would have tried to dismiss the matter after a teachable moment.

With disorderly conduct?

Yes, failure to obey a lwaful order is a subsection of disorderly conduct. i cannot speak as to Mass. Law. Actually I could but i am too busy to look.

In Massachusetts, "A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he: ... engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior; or . . . creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor." Commonwealth vs. Zettel, 46 Mass. App. Ct. 471 (1999). (And there is an exception for protected political speech.)Also, it doesn't sound like Gates disobeyed a lawful order.

He was at first asked to come out onto the porch, and he refused. But that was before he was told that the police were investigating a crime.

Then he was asked to provide ID, and he did. (The police report says he "initially refused . . . but then did supply me with a Harvard University identification card." It doesn't say how long the delay was.)

Gates admitted he got "in the officer's face". Also, Gates' yelling was apparently so obnoxious that Crowley left his mike open to broadcast the tirade to any other officers who may have been listening. Still think Gates' behavior didn't fit the definition of "threatening" or "tumultuous".

These charges may not have been dropped because they were groundless, but to attempt to take Cambridge out of the national spotlight. Who knows... there may have been a nudge coming from the White House, too.

 

[johnnycakes]

Michelle McPhee is on 96.9FM WTKKK right now... she has followed police activities as a newspaper reporter for years. She'll have some good insight. Listen live.

Summary?

She's making the case that the arrest was a good one, that the professor did indeed meet the definition of the misdemeanor for which he was arrested and that Crowley is being unjustly villified.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

Webster's Dictionary -- Definition of Prejudice

Main Entry 1prej·u·dice

Pronunciation: \ˈpre-jə-dəs\

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin praejudicium previous judgment, damage, from prae- + judicium judgment — more at judicial

Date: 13th century

1: injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights ; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims

2 a (1): preconceived judgment or opinion (2): an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b: an instance of such judgment or opinion c: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

President Obama "...now, I don't know all the facts...but". So, you don't know all the facts yet you pronounce your judgment. That is pre-judging. That is what prejudice is.Now, if this plays out as it appears (and we'll see from the transmission recordings) that Gates inflamed this issue then severe pressure will mount for Obama to make a public apology.

When asked the question at the presser (pre-planned, of course) he said he didn't know the facts, we'd all be mad, police acted stupidly, and then launched into the evils of profiling. What in the world did this have to do with profiling? Many break-ins reported recently nearby and AT THIS HOUSE, 911 call says someone is breaking in (they were doing EXACTLY that, of course) and the officer responded. Now, please tell me, where the officer was profiling.

That was Sharpton and Jackson at their best.

When you got the lib press saying you screwed up...you screwed up.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

The other Black man on scene, the Driver, he was not arrested. Now what do you suppose differentiates his blackness from Gates' in the eyes of the Officer? Might it have been behavior?

it sounds like he had left already. He was a driver for a car service that brought Gates from the airport to his house. I don't know how quickly the cop responded but I wouldn't imagine the driver would hang out for very long after helping with the door issue.

As I have already noted myself in an above post as I learned more. I just left the original post so as to document my own lack of understanding at that point. No sense hiding from my own mistake.

 

[StrikeS2k]

This is a he said-she said between two otherwise very respected and trustworthy people (that offer vastly different accounts of the story).

It's really not. Multiple witnesses support the officer's side of the story. The officer has been consistent with his statements while the professor has not. I think it's clear which side is being more truthful here.

 

[Mr. Chumley]

If this happened in Colorado he absolutely would have beeen charged and I would suggest had he fought the charge he would have lost had I been his prosecutor, though before i prosecuted this i would have tried to dismiss the matter after a teachable moment.

With disorderly conduct?

Yes, failure to obey a lwaful order is a subsection of disorderly conduct. i cannot speak as to Mass. Law. Actually I could but i am too busy to look.

In Massachusetts, "A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he: ... engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior; or . . . creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor." Commonwealth vs. Zettel, 46 Mass. App. Ct. 471 (1999). (And there is an exception for protected political speech.)Also, it doesn't sound like Gates disobeyed a lawful order.

He was at first asked to come out onto the porch, and he refused. But that was before he was told that the police were investigating a crime.

Then he was asked to provide ID, and he did. (The police report says he "initially refused . . . but then did supply me with a Harvard University identification card." It doesn't say how long the delay was.)

Gates admitted he got "in the officer's face". Also, Gates' yelling was apparently so obnoxious that Crowley left his mike open to broadcast the tirade to any other officers who may have been listening. Still think Gates' behavior didn't fit the definition of "threatening" or "tumultuous".

These charges may not have been dropped because they were groundless, but to attempt to take Cambridge out of the national spotlight. Who knows... there may have been a nudge coming from the White House, too.

Are there by chance recordings of the converstion from the mic? What do the other officers at the scene say?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

The other Black man on scene, the Driver, he was not arrested. Now what do you suppose differentiates his blackness from Gates' in the eyes of the Officer? Might it have been behavior?

it sounds like he had left already. He was a driver for a car service that brought Gates from the airport to his house. I don't know how quickly the cop responded but I wouldn't imagine the driver would hang out for very long after helping with the door issue.

As I have already noted myself in an above post as I learned more. I just left the original post so as to document my own lack of understanding at that point. No sense hiding from my own mistake.

saw your later post after I posted mine. no worries.

 

[Sweet J]

This is a fascinating case. I personally think this is a fantastic situation to test 21st century america's racial consciousness.

The cop was a young, highly respected, policeman raised in (somewhat) post-racial America, presumably raised in an environment of post-racial ideas of equality and racial dignaty. He was hand-picked by a black police captain to train young white trainees about racial sensitivity. And he was confronted by an elderly black man raised in a time of racial upheaval, raised in a time where blacks were regularly mistreated by police, raised in a time when the memory of Emmit Till's murder was still raw in the national consciousness.

There are other interesting components: The white cop, by all appearences is a blue collar, local, irish towney. Seems to be a bright guy, but not necessarily "educated." I don't know anything about this cop, but many of his fellow officers have been known to be mean, abusive, corrupt, and belligerent. I don't know this guy, but he's not necessarily in great company.

The black professor is part of America's minoriy "ruling class." Glitteratti among the swanky academic circles. Well renowned in institutions of higher education. I also have to add on editorial opinion from Sweet J's perspective: Generally, I think academic folks, especiallly "important, well renowned" professors, can act like shmucks. They are used to people jumping when they say jump, the command classrooms and have people to answer to their every whim. I don't know Gates, but he is not in good company.

My gut feeling, from what I've seen and heard: if I acted like Gates was reported to have acted, I would expect to get arrested. If you are mouthy to a cop, you run the risk of getting arrested. The fact that Gates refuses to acknowledge this very simple principle makes me a little distrustful of the rest of his take on the situation.

 

[Winston Wolfe]

My driver is a large black man. But from afar you and I would not have seen he was black. He has black hair and was dressed in a two-piece black suit, and I was dressed in a navy blue blazer with gray trousers and, you know, my shoes. And I love that the 911 report said that two big black men were trying to break in with backpacks on. Now that is the worst racial profiling I’ve ever heard of in my life. (Laughs.) I’m not exactly a big black man. I thought that was hilarious when I found that out, which was yesterday.

It is this statement that makes me believe that Gates might have an agenda. Whether it is trying to save face, or something else., only he knows. What we do know is this. FACT: Two men were putting their shoulder to the front door of his house. FACT: Both gentlemen were black. Maybe I am naive, but I don't see any profiling here. I see accurate facts being transmitted. The person making the call may have allowed race to determine whether to make the 911 call, but that is how it was allegedly reported to the dispatcher. All of this was unknown to Gates during the incident, but he his now trying to use the transmission of accurate facts in the 911 call as an indictment of officer to support his allegations.This incident saddens me. I realize that racial profiling is a problem in this country, and we have a long way to go until it stops. What disheartens me is that this case is now the poster child for racial profiling and the facts don't seem to support it in a slam dunk. All I see happening is that it is strengthening the belief of many that African Americans use the race card as a crutch. Many people out there believe that race relations will always be an issue solely because African Americans keep perpetuating it. IMO, this case isn't helping to disspell that.

 

[timschochet]

It is also a fact that, whenever a prominant person of color becomes involved in legal trouble in America, racial issues ALWAYS arise. Sometimes this is justified, sometimes it isn't. But it's a sad fact that the defenders of the person in trouble ALWAYS see race as a factor, which in turn angers those who trust the police.

Michael Vick

Barry Bonds

Michael Jackson

OJ Simpson

...and even Clarence Thomas, who is considered by many conservatives to be a hero of sorts.

When each of these were either accused or indicted for wrongdoing, either they or their supporters claimed racial prejudice. And a majority of those within the Black community, according to polls, saw these cases quite differently than the white majority.

This is not to suggest that the charges of racism in this particular case are unfounded. I went in believing there was probably racism involved, now I am not so sure. I know many others from the outset took the opposite view. All I am trying to point out is that these sorts of stories are ALWAYS going to produce a predictable reaction.

 

[johnnycakes]

Are there by chance recordings of the converstion from the mic? What do the other officers at the scene say?

There are FOIA requests being made for recordings. Apparently there are such recordings. Michelle says she isn't getting any response to her requests. She also has reminded everyone that Coupe Deval, governor of MA and former 0bama speechwriter, had also come out publicly denoucing the arrest. In this state, if the governor comes out publicly like that, it's almost incomprehensible there was not political pressure applied to the DA to drop the charges.

 

[Jim11]

First Obama says that he doesn't know all the facts in the Gates situation, then he says the police acted stupidly.

Why would he give an opinion if he doesn't know all the facts?

 

[joni mitchell]

Why would he give an opinion if he doesn't know all the facts?

Why do you?

 

[johnnycakes]

Link to Cambridge Police Log:

On 7/16/09 at 12:44 PM, 58-year-old Henry Gates of 17 Ware St. Cambridge, MA was arrested for Disorderly conduct after exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior.

 

[ceo3west]

Why would he give an opinion if he doesn't know all the facts?

Why do you?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Mario Kart]

Without knowing all of the fact, "Did the police act intelligently?" in the situation?

 

[HERBERT THE HIPPO]

First Obama says that he doesn't know all the facts in the Gates situation, then he says the police acted stupidly.Why would he give an opinion if he doesn't know all the facts?

I think even the most ardent Obama supporters would agree it was a moronic statement to make.

 

[HellToupee]

"you don't know who you're messing with"

sounds like something a solon would say

 

[Max Power]

Lot's of morons in this thread. Lot's of people who seem to not be able to take a situation and not make it about race.I can't wait til whites are the minority and I can blame all of my problems on racism.

There are also a lot of people who, whenever a Black/White potential racial situation surfaces, immediately take the side of the white guy.

a lot?seemed that a majority of posters were outraged with Officer Powell in the Ryan Moats situation.I think your "a lot" is more like one or two idiots

 

[Da Guru]

It is also a fact that, whenever a prominant person of color becomes involved in legal trouble in America, racial issues ALWAYS arise. Sometimes this is justified, sometimes it isn't. But it's a sad fact that the defenders of the person in trouble ALWAYS see race as a factor, which in turn angers those who trust the police.Michael VickBarry BondsMichael JacksonOJ Simpson...and even Clarence Thomas, who is considered by many conservatives to be a hero of sorts.When each of these were either accused or indicted for wrongdoing, either they or their supporters claimed racial prejudice. And a majority of those within the Black community, according to polls, saw these cases quite differently than the white majority.This is not to suggest that the charges of racism in this particular case are unfounded. I went in believing there was probably racism involved, now I am not so sure. I know many others from the outset took the opposite view. All I am trying to point out is that these sorts of stories are ALWAYS going to produce a predictable reaction.

The facts appear to be playing out that a police officer was doing his job as he was trained to do...regardless of what any of us think.

 

[JuniorNB]

7-24-09. First time ever that I agree with Jim11. I'll mark it down.

My only complaint is, this was discussed ad naseum since Wednesday night. Why is he so far behind?

 

[HellToupee]

Barack made a mistake by trusting a friend without proper factfinding

 

[avoiding injuries]

He made a mistake and I don't expect him to acknowledge it.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

My driver is a large black man. But from afar you and I would not have seen he was black. He has black hair and was dressed in a two-piece black suit, and I was dressed in a navy blue blazer with gray trousers and, you know, my shoes. And I love that the 911 report said that two big black men were trying to break in with backpacks on. Now that is the worst racial profiling I’ve ever heard of in my life. (Laughs.) I’m not exactly a big black man. I thought that was hilarious when I found that out, which was yesterday.

It is this statement that makes me believe that Gates might have an agenda. Whether it is trying to save face, or something else., only he knows. What we do know is this. FACT: Two men were putting their shoulder to the front door of his house. FACT: Both gentlemen were black. Maybe I am naive, but I don't see any profiling here. I see accurate facts being transmitted. The person making the call may have allowed race to determine whether to make the 911 call, but that is how it was allegedly reported to the dispatcher. All of this was unknown to Gates during the incident, but he his now trying to use the transmission of accurate facts in the 911 call as an indictment of officer to support his allegations.This incident saddens me. I realize that racial profiling is a problem in this country, and we have a long way to go until it stops. What disheartens me is that this case is now the poster child for racial profiling and the facts don't seem to support it in a slam dunk. All I see happening is that it is strengthening the belief of many that African Americans use the race card as a crutch. Many people out there believe that race relations will always be an issue solely because African Americans keep perpetuating it. IMO, this case isn't helping to disspell that.

Much nicer than I would have said it. I think Gates had an agenda to get arrested and try to play the race card. Hilarious that a very well thought of white cop who teaches other cops how to not racial profile is the one that he is trying to pin profiling on. He is going to get burned, I think.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I think Gates had an agenda to get arrested and try to play the race card.

you really think he wanted to be arrested? wtf?much more plausible that he was tired, stressed, annoyed, etc. and temporarily lost his mind after a long return trip from China only to find his door wouldn't open and then have the cops show up to question him. I don't see how people can believe this was some calculated attempt on his part to get arrested and create a huge national story about it.

 

[Max Power]

I think Gates had an agenda to get arrested and try to play the race card.

you really think he wanted to be arrested? wtf?

Dude has already agreed to a "documentary" about this situation

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I think Gates had an agenda to get arrested and try to play the race card.

you really think he wanted to be arrested? wtf?much more plausible that he was tired, stressed, annoyed, etc. and temporarily lost his mind after a long return trip from China only to find his door wouldn't open and then have the cops show up to question him. I don't see how people can believe this was some calculated attempt on his part to get arrested and create a huge national story about it.

I should have been more clear. Not an agenda before this ever happened, like a set up. More of an idea in the back of his mind about halfway through it that he was going to show this white cop what can happen when he messes with a "connected" black man. Then he escalated his behavior to the point that he knew he would be arrested. The mocking of the cop's mother is great proof of that, in my opinion. That is an obvious ploy to get arrested and had nothing to do with the situation. Sorry you don't see it that way.Edit to add: I mean, do you think 58 year old Harvard Professors often mock someone's mother when they are tired and stressed out? He wanted to get arrested.

 

[pollardsvision]

Why would he give an opinion if he doesn't know all the facts?

Why do you?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm sure you guys can see the difference and are just joking, but what the hell.Jim11 on a fantasy football message board giving an uninformed opinion really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things (or even in the small scheme of things).The President of the United States gathering a large TV audience together and giving an uninformed opinion on an issue dealing with one of the most devisive issues in our country and taking the opportunity to imply that a public servant is a racist is a incredibly reckless.

 

[HellToupee]

I think Gates had an agenda to get arrested and try to play the race card.

you really think he wanted to be arrested? wtf?much more plausible that he was tired, stressed, annoyed, etc. and temporarily lost his mind after a long return trip from China only to find his door wouldn't open and then have the cops show up to question him. I don't see how people can believe this was some calculated attempt on his part to get arrested and create a huge national story about it.

I don't think this was Gates being calculating & wanting to get arrested. To me he had a "do you know who I am" elitist attitude and snapped when he wasn't getting his way. Embarrased he used influence on friends to try and nake himself look better. He didnt count on a clean cop

 

[Brave Sir Robin]

Obama clearly qualified his statement by saying he was friends with the guy and was probably biased.If it happened to a buddy of yours, I'm sure you'd think the cops acted stupidly as well.

But this is the same guy that takes forever to make a simple statement about Iranian elections and other gimmes of foreign policy. Your statement validates those who wish to judge Obama by his friends.

 

[johnnycakes]

I think Gates had an agenda to get arrested and try to play the race card.

you really think he wanted to be arrested? wtf?much more plausible that he was tired, stressed, annoyed, etc. and temporarily lost his mind after a long return trip from China only to find his door wouldn't open and then have the cops show up to question him. I don't see how people can believe this was some calculated attempt on his part to get arrested and create a huge national story about it.

I don't think it was a calculated attempt at getting arrested. But I am having visions of someone along the lines of the Rev. Wright's mentality in Professor Gates. I don't know the guy, but when I start hearing the guy throw out the race card and query the officer about whether his continuing requests were because he was black and then I hear the "yo mamma" comment... not too hard to envision the
standing there ranting and raving at the cop.

 

[HellToupee]

I think Gates had an agenda to get arrested and try to play the race card.

you really think he wanted to be arrested? wtf?

Dude has already agreed to a "documentary" about this situation

thats just a byproduct of the situationMichael Moore should be involved with this doc

 

[Sweet J]

much more plausible that he was tired, stressed, annoyed, etc. and temporarily lost his mind after a long return trip from China only to find his door wouldn't open and then have the cops show up to question him.

This is absolutely what I think.

 

[Winston Wolfe]

I think Gates had an agenda to get arrested and try to play the race card.

you really think he wanted to be arrested? wtf?

Dude has already agreed to a "documentary" about this situation

thats just a byproduct of the situationMichael Moore should be involved with this doc

I think Spike Lee would be a better fit. :gasoline:

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I think Gates had an agenda to get arrested and try to play the race card.

you really think he wanted to be arrested? wtf?

Dude has already agreed to a "documentary" about this situation

how much money do you think PBS has?

 

[Da Guru]

I think Gates had an agenda to get arrested and try to play the race card.

you really think he wanted to be arrested? wtf?much more plausible that he was tired, stressed, annoyed, etc. and temporarily lost his mind after a long return trip from China only to find his door wouldn't open and then have the cops show up to question him. I don't see how people can believe this was some calculated attempt on his part to get arrested and create a huge national story about it.

I thought the same thing right away. You get home from a trip exhausted and your friggen door won`t open..while trying to get in the cops get called for a BE in progress. Gates probably just lost it.

But if that was the case Gates should come clean and say just that. Then we can move on.

 

[HellToupee]

its going to be very interesting when the audio tapes get released

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I think Gates had an agenda to get arrested and try to play the race card.

you really think he wanted to be arrested? wtf?much more plausible that he was tired, stressed, annoyed, etc. and temporarily lost his mind after a long return trip from China only to find his door wouldn't open and then have the cops show up to question him. I don't see how people can believe this was some calculated attempt on his part to get arrested and create a huge national story about it.

I should have been more clear. Not an agenda before this ever happened, like a set up. More of an idea in the back of his mind about halfway through it that he was going to show this white cop what can happen when he messes with a "connected" black man. Then he escalated his behavior to the point that he knew he would be arrested. The mocking of the cop's mother is great proof of that, in my opinion. That is an obvious ploy to get arrested and had nothing to do with the situation. Sorry you don't see it that way.Edit to add: I mean, do you think 58 year old Harvard Professors often mock someone's mother when they are tired and stressed out? He wanted to get arrested.

sometimes people do stupid things that they later regret. it's not always planned out that way.I've been around people who mouthed off to cops and got arrested. I don't know any of them that ever said "yeah, I really wanted to get arrested there. that was the whole point. everything went exactly as planned."

 

[Max Power]

I think Gates had an agenda to get arrested and try to play the race card.

you really think he wanted to be arrested? wtf?

Dude has already agreed to a "documentary" about this situation

how much money do you think PBS has?

hopefully enough to fix his door

 

[StrikeS2k]

sometimes people do stupid things that they later regret. it's not always planned out that way.I've been around people who mouthed off to cops and got arrested. I don't know any of them that ever said "yeah, I really wanted to get arrested there. that was the whole point. everything went exactly as planned."

Did they say they thought the arrest was unfair or did they acknowledge that maybe mouthing off wasn't the best course of action at that time? Oh, and did they say that they thought the arrest was racially motivated?

 

[Jefferson the Caregiver]

I think Gates had an agenda to get arrested and try to play the race card.

Disagree. I think Gates just wanted to big time the cop, which he did The cop should have taken a step back and just let this guy carry on like an idiot and left the scene. Instead, the cop decides, you want to bigtime me, I am going to flex my muscle and make a scene here too.Poor judgement all around. You would hope the cop would have more important things to do than waste anymore time on this situation but he didn't.If the cop leaves this scene, Gates looks like a complete idiot to everybody out there witnessing it and this story doesn't get anymore press. That would have been a fitting ending.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Meh, facts. You can prove anything with facts.

 

[StrikeS2k]

I think Gates had an agenda to get arrested and try to play the race card.

Disagree. I think Gates just wanted to big time the cop, which he did The cop should have taken a step back and just let this guy carry on like an idiot and left the scene. Instead, the cop decides, you want to bigtime me, I am going to flex my muscle and make a scene here too.Poor judgement all around. You would hope the cop would have more important things to do than waste anymore time on this situation but he didn't.

If the cop leaves this scene, Gates looks like a complete idiot to everybody out there witnessing it and this story doesn't get anymore press. That would have been a fitting ending.

As opposed to everybody in the whole world like he looks now?

 

[Brave Sir Robin]

Should they have? No, probably not.

Yeah, I think it's definitely fair to question whether or not this was a valid arrest, but that's not really the point.

Why isn't that the point?

The point is, valid or invalid, was the arrest made because Gates is black?

Well, that's a point. If the arrest was invalid, and if the arresting officer knew at the time that the arrest was invalid but was just acting like a thug, I suppose it makes a difference whether the officer would have acted like a thug to everybody, or just to black people. (Although I don't really know which is worse.)But since it's impossible to know whether race was a factor, I personally think the more interesting point is whether there was legally valid cause for the arrest.

Maurile, you can do a lot of things but I doubt that you could be a cop. I don't think you fundamentally have what it takes. I bet you can organize a police department and would be a great spokesman for one but my guess is that you would make some problems worse when a snarl and bite is what is needed over a reasoned explanation. Good cops have a little of both and are tasked to know when to use these tools. This cop seems like a freakin' gem in that regard.So you go into this community and let all the neighborhood watch as you get jawboned into retreat by an old school racist with intellectual trappings. Good luck on your next trip and better luck still to those you have to back-up because of this.

By the way, I am a fan of yours and agree with many here that you are a brilliant master of many trades but try to make an intellectual allowance that this cop, likely not as smart as you, had the best legal solution for the situation. The good ones are just visceral enough to get the job done with the least harm. Let's remember, NO ONE WAS PHYSICALLY HARMED HERE and who knows how silly that old race pimp would have gotten.

When I get pissed at a cop I always remember that they have to be made of a certain metal and if my wife or kids are in peril, I want a guy that instinctively moves to credible aggression mode. The other dealings that I have with them are so trivial in comparison.

 

[Jefferson the Caregiver]

I think Gates had an agenda to get arrested and try to play the race card.

Disagree. I think Gates just wanted to big time the cop, which he did The cop should have taken a step back and just let this guy carry on like an idiot and left the scene. Instead, the cop decides, you want to bigtime me, I am going to flex my muscle and make a scene here too.Poor judgement all around. You would hope the cop would have more important things to do than waste anymore time on this situation but he didn't.

If the cop leaves this scene, Gates looks like a complete idiot to everybody out there witnessing it and this story doesn't get anymore press. That would have been a fitting ending.

As opposed to everybody in the whole world like he looks now?

I am sure this cop doesn't really want this to be a national story either. It is a terribly minor incident that now has been blown way out of proportion because one of these guys couldn't have shown a cooler head. I just can't excuse either party.