*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (4 Viewers)

[Premier]

Is Love worse at defending than Wiggins is on the offensive side of the court? He can't shoot. He can attack, sure, but that's Lebron and Kyrie's job.

I guess the more important question is if there us any chance Wiggins is better than Love in the next 2-4 seasons. When Lebron is 35 this won't likely matter as much.

Not just Wiggins vs Love over the next 2-4 seasons. Wiggins plus whoever they could add with the extra cap space vs Love.

Also I bet LeBron's still a top 5 player in the league at age 35. There's so much more to his game than athleticism. Did you read that Windhorst thing about his memory at ESPN today? Frightening.

The deal isn't one for one. The Cavs are also dumping Bennett's guaranteed deal...based on what we saw last year, he's going to be overpaid on his rookie deal. So make it full analysis...the cap space difference isn't as big as you are saying.

Bennett is going to develop into a solid rotation big. Probably as soon as this year.

There has been absolutely nothing shown by him to substantiate this.

A preemptive No to you mentioning summer league as well.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I love how Bennett's $19MM over the next 3 years "isn't bad" but Kevin Martin's $22MM over the same period is an albatross.

I get how he's young and can improve but he was HORRIBLE last year. I haven't given up on him yet and agree he could be a rotation big, this just strikes me as funny.

 

[Freelove]

Is Love worse at defending than Wiggins is on the offensive side of the court? He can't shoot. He can attack, sure, but that's Lebron and Kyrie's job.

I guess the more important question is if there us any chance Wiggins is better than Love in the next 2-4 seasons. When Lebron is 35 this won't likely matter as much.

Not just Wiggins vs Love over the next 2-4 seasons. Wiggins plus whoever they could add with the extra cap space vs Love.

Also I bet LeBron's still a top 5 player in the league at age 35. There's so much more to his game than athleticism. Did you read that Windhorst thing about his memory at ESPN today? Frightening.

The deal isn't one for one. The Cavs are also dumping Bennett's guaranteed deal...based on what we saw last year, he's going to be overpaid on his rookie deal. So make it full analysis...the cap space difference isn't as big as you are saying.

Bennett is going to develop into a solid rotation big. Probably as soon as this year.

There has been absolutely nothing shown by him to substantiate this.

A preemptive No to you mentioning summer league as well.

I think "absolutely nothing" is doing him a disservice. Jan and Feb of last year, he was mediocre as rookies go, and it's no coincidence that this is when he started showing up on the court looking less pudgy and winded.

You can't draw too many conclusion from Summer league, but you can definitely say that Summer 2014 Bennett wasn't pudgy and winded. If he only shows typical second year improvement on top of how he already looked once he got his legs under him last year, he'll be at least "meh." Which isn't anything to jump for joy over, but it's a useful rotation guy at that point, with some size.

 

[sporthenry]

I love how Bennett's $19MM over the next 3 years "isn't bad" but Kevin Martin's $22MM over the same period is an albatross.

I get how he's young and can improve but he was HORRIBLE last year. I haven't given up on him yet and agree he could be a rotation big, this just strikes me as funny.

Well worst case scenario, they can just not pick up his option next year, thus giving them cap flexibility.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Is Love worse at defending than Wiggins is on the offensive side of the court? He can't shoot. He can attack, sure, but that's Lebron and Kyrie's job.

I guess the more important question is if there us any chance Wiggins is better than Love in the next 2-4 seasons. When Lebron is 35 this won't likely matter as much.

Not just Wiggins vs Love over the next 2-4 seasons. Wiggins plus whoever they could add with the extra cap space vs Love.

Also I bet LeBron's still a top 5 player in the league at age 35. There's so much more to his game than athleticism. Did you read that Windhorst thing about his memory at ESPN today? Frightening.

The deal isn't one for one. The Cavs are also dumping Bennett's guaranteed deal...based on what we saw last year, he's going to be overpaid on his rookie deal. So make it full analysis...the cap space difference isn't as big as you are saying.

Well Bennett is still rather cheap. So if he puts together any semblance of a solid season, even on the #1 pick scale, it is still cheaper than an open market guy. And if they sign Love, there goes all flexibility. As it stands now, they are up against the cap but have quite a few movable pieces. They can trade or package some sort of Waiters, Thompson and Bennett for cap relief. They can either do this to get pieces in return or as salary dumps for cap flexibility.

Bennett is getting a little more than the mid-level. McBob, Hawes, Kaman and Patterson all signed for about the same or less and are going to give you more than Bennett. Blatche is still out there, who for all his warts, will give you more than Bennett. Pau is only going to be getting about a $1.5m more. Bennett is certainly not cheap unless he makes some massive improvements.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I love how Bennett's $19MM over the next 3 years "isn't bad" but Kevin Martin's $22MM over the same period is an albatross.

I get how he's young and can improve but he was HORRIBLE last year. I haven't given up on him yet and agree he could be a rotation big, this just strikes me as funny.

Well worst case scenario, they can just not pick up his option next year, thus giving them cap flexibility.

Fair point. Would be an incredible move for a #1 overall, but that could happen I suppose.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

I love how Bennett's $19MM over the next 3 years "isn't bad" but Kevin Martin's $22MM over the same period is an albatross.

I get how he's young and can improve but he was HORRIBLE last year. I haven't given up on him yet and agree he could be a rotation big, this just strikes me as funny.

Bennetts are team options after this year though.

 

[Sammy3469]

Is Love worse at defending than Wiggins is on the offensive side of the court? He can't shoot. He can attack, sure, but that's Lebron and Kyrie's job.

I guess the more important question is if there us any chance Wiggins is better than Love in the next 2-4 seasons. When Lebron is 35 this won't likely matter as much.

Not just Wiggins vs Love over the next 2-4 seasons. Wiggins plus whoever they could add with the extra cap space vs Love.

Also I bet LeBron's still a top 5 player in the league at age 35. There's so much more to his game than athleticism. Did you read that Windhorst thing about his memory at ESPN today? Frightening.

The deal isn't one for one. The Cavs are also dumping Bennett's guaranteed deal...based on what we saw last year, he's going to be overpaid on his rookie deal. So make it full analysis...the cap space difference isn't as big as you are saying.

Well Bennett is still rather cheap. So if he puts together any semblance of a solid season, even on the #1 pick scale, it is still cheaper than an open market guy.

And if they sign Love, there goes all flexibility. As it stands now, they are up against the cap but have quite a few movable pieces. They can trade or package some sort of Waiters, Thompson and Bennett for cap relief. They can either do this to get pieces in return or as salary dumps for cap flexibility.

I don't know about that. He becomes decidedly more expensive if they butt up against the luxury tax, costing them the full MLE. there's a lot of moving pieces (especially since we don't know what the actual deal is). Both Bennett and Thompson become expendable (from a playing perspective) in any Love deal anyway.

The other thing is, unlike Miami when they signed him in 2010, Cleveland already has a ton of picks available to them with the Memphis pick (probably 2017 pick), Heat pick (almost definitely a 2015 pick), and all their own. That gives them lots of flexibility Miami never had moving forward even if they add Love while giving up one of those picks and say Wiggins and Thompson.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I love how Bennett's $19MM over the next 3 years "isn't bad" but Kevin Martin's $22MM over the same period is an albatross.

I get how he's young and can improve but he was HORRIBLE last year. I haven't given up on him yet and agree he could be a rotation big, this just strikes me as funny.

Bennetts are team options after this year though.

See? You're already trying to get rid of him!

 

[sporthenry]

Love is an ok defender, tried defending this before, but say la vee. He's improved on offense and defense every year.

Also, I wonder what an nba comparison for Wiggins is right now: uber athletic, good (going no insanely for now), not a great shooter yet, especially from outside.

Ariza? Kawhi? Tony Allen?

I'm leaning towards a more athletic, worse shooting Ariza.

As far as comparisons, Tony Allen is only 6'4. Wiggins wasn't a great defensive rebounder and perhaps that speaks to him being more perimeter oriented. He also didn't have a great assist rate. Kawhi wasn't a very good college shooter but has turned into a competent NBA shooter which is the problem with comparisons. It seems like a relative crap shoot, but the big question is whether Wiggins becomes that competent shooter or else he looks like a better MKG.

Wiggins did do very well at getting to the line. Decent Bleacher Report article about comps here. But even then, he compares him to guys like Henderson who have struggled shooting but both guys were much better shooters than Leonard in college. Maybe it has to do with Leonard's giant hands being better with the NBA ball? But it does draw some perhaps problems with Wiggins relying on athleticism.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

I love how Bennett's $19MM over the next 3 years "isn't bad" but Kevin Martin's $22MM over the same period is an albatross.

I get how he's young and can improve but he was HORRIBLE last year. I haven't given up on him yet and agree he could be a rotation big, this just strikes me as funny.

Bennetts are team options after this year though.

See? You're already trying to get rid of him!

Hey if my biggest sports dilemma is whether my team ends up with Kevin Love or Andrew Wiggins (or both!) I'm a happy fan.

 

[pollardsvision]

Yeah, the flexibility is nice, but it's awfully liberal to say Anthony Bennett at $6 mill/year is anything approaching a solid value.

For $6 mill/year, you can get real NBA players. Guys that can really help.

Maybe Bennett will become that and not showing up fat to summer league is a good start (his career highlight so far), but the road from Bennett in 2013-14 to useful NBA player is a long one and far from guaranteed.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Bennett's PER was almost lower than his salary (6.9PER > $5.3M). Wonder how many times that has happened...

Kobe's will definitely be lower

Gerald Wallace got under by .1 last year.

NY/BKN players (Amare, JJ, Deron)

Boozer

ETA:

Hibbert

 

[fantasycurse42]

I love how Bennett's $19MM over the next 3 years "isn't bad" but Kevin Martin's $22MM over the same period is an albatross.

I get how he's young and can improve but he was HORRIBLE last year. I haven't given up on him yet and agree he could be a rotation big, this just strikes me as funny.

Bennetts are team options after this year though.

See? You're already trying to get rid of him!

Hey if my biggest sports dilemma is whether my team ends up with Kevin Love or Andrew Wiggins (or both!) I'm a happy fan.

There is no way they end up with both IMO.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I love how Bennett's $19MM over the next 3 years "isn't bad" but Kevin Martin's $22MM over the same period is an albatross.

I get how he's young and can improve but he was HORRIBLE last year. I haven't given up on him yet and agree he could be a rotation big, this just strikes me as funny.

Bennetts are team options after this year though.

See? You're already trying to get rid of him!

Hey if my biggest sports dilemma is whether my team ends up with Kevin Love or Andrew Wiggins (or both!) I'm a happy fan.

Yeah, I envy you.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

I love how Bennett's $19MM over the next 3 years "isn't bad" but Kevin Martin's $22MM over the same period is an albatross.

I get how he's young and can improve but he was HORRIBLE last year. I haven't given up on him yet and agree he could be a rotation big, this just strikes me as funny.

Bennetts are team options after this year though.

See? You're already trying to get rid of him!

Hey if my biggest sports dilemma is whether my team ends up with Kevin Love or Andrew Wiggins (or both!) I'm a happy fan.

Yeah, I envy you.

Rumors that Philly likes Waiters. Maybe they take him and Martin/Barea, Wolves get Thad, Bennett, Wiggins and/or picks.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

SHERIDAN BOMB

Chris Sheridan ‏@sheridanhoops 1m

EXCLUSIVE: #Bulls have offered Taj Gibson, Nikola Mirotic and Doug McDermott to #Twolves for K.Love, per NBA source.

 

[Premier]

PER less than salary is a fun game.

 

[rodg12]

SHERIDAN BOMB

Chris Sheridan ‏@sheridanhoops 1m

EXCLUSIVE: #Bulls have offered Taj Gibson, Nikola Mirotic and Doug McDermott to #Twolves for K.Love, per NBA source.

Whoa. That probably gets it done.

 

[Frostillicus]

I've reached the point where it's either Wiggins or I'll hate the trade. That's probably not good.

 

[pollardsvision]

I've reached the point where it's either Wiggins or I'll hate the trade. That's probably not good.

There's enough content floating around the innerwebs to convince yourself Mirotic is the next Dirk (moreso than all the other "next Dirk's"). There's also people thinking McDermott tearing up the D-League matters more than the nothing it should.

You won't have to reach too far to talk yourself into it, if it comes to it.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I've reached the point where it's either Wiggins or I'll hate the trade. That's probably not good.

They're going to get value for Love. There is enough interest where the best offer will be solid.

 

[Frostillicus]

I've reached the point where it's either Wiggins or I'll hate the trade. That's probably not good.

There's enough content floating around the innerwebs to convince yourself Mirotic is the next Dirk (moreso than all the other "next Dirk's"). There's also people thinking McDermott tearing up the D-League matters more than the nothing it should.

You won't have to reach too far to talk yourself into it, if it comes to it.

That's good to know. I'm sure I can become #1 fan of Nikola Mirotic if I have to.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

SHERIDAN BOMB

Chris Sheridan ‏@sheridanhoops 1m

EXCLUSIVE: #Bulls have offered Taj Gibson, Nikola Mirotic and Doug McDermott to #Twolves for K.Love, per NBA source.

Whoa. That probably gets it done.

It's a solid consolation prize at least. GB bidding wars.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Will Cleveland have the space to sign Love next year outright anyway?

No. They'd essentially have to make a similar trade to what they are now offering to clear cap space.

And at that point Minnesota has no leverage as love goes to a team with space and no trade, or there is a sign and trade with Cavs. Right?

 

[thecatch]

I love how Bennett's $19MM over the next 3 years "isn't bad" but Kevin Martin's $22MM over the same period is an albatross.

I get how he's young and can improve but he was HORRIBLE last year. I haven't given up on him yet and agree he could be a rotation big, this just strikes me as funny.

He may be overpaid, certainly, but I think he will turn out to be an NBA player. That's it - I'm not saying he's a super valuable asset by any stretch.

 

[thecatch]

Bennett's PER was almost lower than his salary (6.9PER > $5.3M). Wonder how many times that has happened...

Kobe's will definitely be lower

Gerald Wallace got under by .1 last year.

NY/BKN players (Amare, JJ, Deron)

Boozer

ETA:

Hibbert

John Salmons was close last year.

 

[sporthenry]

Will Cleveland have the space to sign Love next year outright anyway?

No. They'd essentially have to make a similar trade to what they are now offering to clear cap space.

And at that point Minnesota has no leverage as love goes to a team with space and no trade, or there is a sign and trade with Cavs. Right?

Correct. Love doesn't gain much of anything by doing a S&T. So the Cavs could move someone for picks, release Bennett or just trade them to the Wolves if they wanted. Not like previous where Love got more money via S&T.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Will Cleveland have the space to sign Love next year outright anyway?

No. They'd essentially have to make a similar trade to what they are now offering to clear cap space.

And at that point Minnesota has no leverage as love goes to a team with space and no trade, or there is a sign and trade with Cavs. Right?

Correct. Love doesn't gain much of anything by doing a S&T. So the Cavs could move someone for picks, release Bennett or just trade them to the Wolves if they wanted. Not like previous where Love got more money via S&T.

Right, but what would happen is that Love would get traded elsewhere in this scenario.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Bennett's PER was almost lower than his salary (6.9PER > $5.3M). Wonder how many times that has happened...

Kobe's will definitely be lower

Gerald Wallace got under by .1 last year.

NY/BKN players (Amare, JJ, Deron)

Boozer

ETA:

Hibbert

John Salmons was close last year.

Howard (under in 2013), Gay, Jefferson and Prince were each within 1 last season.

Granger was under.

ETA: Perkins was way under.

 

[Joe Summer]

Bennett's PER was almost lower than his salary (6.9PER > $5.3M). Wonder how many times that has happened...

Kobe's will definitely be lower

Gerald Wallace got under by .1 last year.

NY/BKN players (Amare, JJ, Deron)

Boozer

ETA:

Hibbert

Raef LaFrentz the last 3 years of his career.edit: and Steve Francis in 2008. Both players were on Portland's roster that year BTW. That was about $50 million in wasted money.

 

[mcintyre1]

SHERIDAN BOMB

Chris Sheridan ‏@sheridanhoops 1m

EXCLUSIVE: #Bulls have offered Taj Gibson, Nikola Mirotic and Doug McDermott to #Twolves for K.Love, per NBA source.

Whoa. That probably gets it done.

I'd much rather have that than Wiggins + Bennett. Taj gives us a dependable vet to hold down the PF spot next to Pek while Mirotic and Dougy McBuckets get their feet under them in the NBA. Plus we've already got Mirotic's countryman in Pek, will make the transition easier, I'd think. Heck, that team doesn't even really have a lot of holes in it.

Rubio/Barea/Shved

Martin/Lavine/Bud

Brewer/Bud/Bazz/McBuckets

Gibson/Mirotic/Dieng/McBuckets

Pek/Dieng/Turiaf

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

SHERIDAN BOMB

Chris Sheridan ‏@sheridanhoops 1m

EXCLUSIVE: #Bulls have offered Taj Gibson, Nikola Mirotic and Doug McDermott to #Twolves for K.Love, per NBA source.

Nice offer.

Sounds like they upped their pre-draft offer from Snell to Mirotic. McDermott looked tremendous in summer league. (And by tremendous I don't mean score 28 points on 27 shots)

 

[Timmay]

SHERIDAN BOMB

Chris Sheridan ‏@sheridanhoops 1m

EXCLUSIVE: #Bulls have offered Taj Gibson, Nikola Mirotic and Doug McDermott to #Twolves for K.Love, per NBA source.

Whoa. That probably gets it done.

I'd much rather have that than Wiggins + Bennett. Taj gives us a dependable vet to hold down the PF spot next to Pek while Mirotic and Dougy McBuckets get their feet under them in the NBA. Plus we've already got Mirotic's countryman in Pek, will make the transition easier, I'd think. Heck, that team doesn't even really have a lot of holes in it.

Rubio/Barea/Shved

Martin/Lavine/Bud

Brewer/Bud/Bazz/McBuckets

Gibson/Mirotic/Dieng/McBuckets

Pek/Dieng/Turiaf

Mirotic is from Spain. Might help Rubio.

 

[Frostillicus]

I just watched the DraftExpress video of Mirotic set to really dramatic music and I'm now convinced he's Dirk 2.0.

 

[mcintyre1]

SHERIDAN BOMB

Chris Sheridan ‏@sheridanhoops 1m

EXCLUSIVE: #Bulls have offered Taj Gibson, Nikola Mirotic and Doug McDermott to #Twolves for K.Love, per NBA source.

Whoa. That probably gets it done.

I'd much rather have that than Wiggins + Bennett. Taj gives us a dependable vet to hold down the PF spot next to Pek while Mirotic and Dougy McBuckets get their feet under them in the NBA. Plus we've already got Mirotic's countryman in Pek, will make the transition easier, I'd think. Heck, that team doesn't even really have a lot of holes in it.

Rubio/Barea/Shved

Martin/Lavine/Bud

Brewer/Bud/Bazz/McBuckets

Gibson/Mirotic/Dieng/McBuckets

Pek/Dieng/Turiaf

Mirotic is from Spain. Might help Rubio.

Yeah, he lives in Spain, born in Montenegro. No idea how long ago he left there, so maybe he identifies more as Spanish.

Wolves writer:

@DarrenWolfson NBA source w/ a big stake in the #Twolves/Cavs talks verifies @sheridanhoops report: Gibson, Mirotic, McDermott on the table for Love.

 

[sporthenry]

Will Cleveland have the space to sign Love next year outright anyway?

No. They'd essentially have to make a similar trade to what they are now offering to clear cap space.

And at that point Minnesota has no leverage as love goes to a team with space and no trade, or there is a sign and trade with Cavs. Right?

Correct. Love doesn't gain much of anything by doing a S&T. So the Cavs could move someone for picks, release Bennett or just trade them to the Wolves if they wanted. Not like previous where Love got more money via S&T.

Right, but what would happen is that Love would get traded elsewhere in this scenario.

Assuming he signs with the other team. As much as people seem to think LeBron is in control of this, Love has the most control. He can dictate where he wants to go and how much he wants to screw over the team he is going to. If anything, he should learn from Melo. Say he is signing with Cleveland regardless, drive his price down, keep as many assets on the Cavs, and still go there.

 

[Premier]

That Bulls offer isn't bad. Cavs better get serious.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I just watched the DraftExpress video of Mirotic set to really dramatic music and I'm now convinced he's Dirk 2.0.

HOLY SHIT ME TOO

Except for the Dirk part.

 

[Frostillicus]

I just watched the DraftExpress video of Mirotic set to really dramatic music and I'm now convinced he's Dirk 2.0.

HOLY SHIT ME TOO

Except for the Dirk part.

The music was pretty awesome. Still on #teamwiggins

 

[Frostillicus]

That Bulls offer isn't bad. Cavs better get serious.

DELUSIONAL!

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Sam Amick @sam_amick 4 minutes ago

Even before chatter about Bulls' offer (see @Chris Sheridan), some close to situation had been saying Love would likely wind up in Chicago
ruh roh

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Royce Young @EyeOnBasketball 1 minute ago
Report: 76ers, Nuggets, Celtics among teams lining up to be third team in Love trade cbsprt.co/1mEDIM6

 

[mcintyre1]

Royce Young @EyeOnBasketball 1 minute ago
Report: 76ers, Nuggets, Celtics among teams lining up to be third team in Love trade cbsprt.co/1mEDIM6

Man, Love really has rocked some awful looking beard/hair combinations.

 

[Village Idiot]

Here's how cracked local radio idiots are:

They believe that Flip could possibly be trying to swing the following deal:

Wiggins

Bennett

a pair of first round picks

Thad Young

and they dump Kevin Martin and JJ Barea

I just yelled "OH COME ON" in my truck.

Someone posted this on a Wolves forum,

"Our starting lineup was the best in the NBA. THE BEST."

I love reading the posts from the delusional ones on both sides.

 

[Freelove]

Royce Young @EyeOnBasketball 1 minute ago
Report: 76ers, Nuggets, Celtics among teams lining up to be third team in Love trade cbsprt.co/1mEDIM6

Man, Love really has rocked some awful looking beard/hair combinations.

Yet, if the Wolves get Mirotic, they may not end up giving very much away in that department, depending on which look he chooses to rock for them.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Royce Young @EyeOnBasketball 1 minute ago
Report: 76ers, Nuggets, Celtics among teams lining up to be third team in Love trade cbsprt.co/1mEDIM6

Man, Love really has rocked some awful looking beard/hair combinations.

Yet, if the Wolves get Mirotic, they may not end up giving very much away in that department, depending on which look he chooses to rock for them.

Pro-beard

 

[pollardsvision]

I'd kind of like to see this Love to CHI thing. It could make MIN pretty interesting.

Plus, they don't really need Wiggins. He's just the next Corey Brewer.

 

[Freelove]

Royce Young @EyeOnBasketball 1 minute ago
Report: 76ers, Nuggets, Celtics among teams lining up to be third team in Love trade cbsprt.co/1mEDIM6

Man, Love really has rocked some awful looking beard/hair combinations.

Yet, if the Wolves get Mirotic, they may not end up giving very much away in that department, depending on which look he chooses to rock for them.

Pro-beard

I like a team of Euros to roll out onto the floor all bearded and damp, looking like they've just left a Turkish bathhouse.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

MOAR Sheridan:

Chris Sheridan @sheridanhoops · 11m

.@knicksdude Chicago's offer dwarfs Cleveland's, IMO. #Twolves would get 3 starters (or 2 + McBuckets) who can shoot, defend, rebound.

Chris Sheridan @sheridanhoops · 25s

.@Coach_JDJ If #TWolves go into full rebuild, they're at risk of losing Ricky Rubio. He doesn't want a rebuild. #Bulls offer fills 3 spots.
Chris Sheridan @sheridanhoops · 22s

.@chancy1993 Yes. Flip wants to win immediately. This trade would give him that chance. Same with Warriors trade if K.Thompson included.