*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (1 Viewer)

[the moops]

Man, it must be nice to be a Laker fan sometimes.

I still can't figure out what the #### Orlando was thinking. So these are the draft picks they thought could turn around their franchise?

- A protected 2017 first rounder and a conditional 2015 second rounder from the Lakers

-A protected 2014 first rounder from the Nuggets (the worst of their own and the Knicks pick) and a 2013 second-round pick from the Nuggets

- A protected 2013 first rounder from Sixers

So one first rounder in 2013, one in 2014 and one in 2017 (plus a 2013 second rounder and a 2015 second rounder).

None of those first rounders are likely to be much better than a pick in the 20s.

 

[Balco]

Man, it must be nice to be a Laker fan sometimes.I still can't figure out what the #### Orlando was thinking. So these are the draft picks they thought could turn around their franchise?- A protected 2017 first rounder and a conditional 2015 second rounder from the Lakers-A protected 2014 first rounder from the Nuggets (the worst of their own and the Knicks pick) and a 2013 second-round pick from the Nuggets - A protected 2013 first rounder from SixersSo one first rounder in 2013, one in 2014 and one in 2017 (plus a 2013 second rounder and a 2015 second rounder).None of those first rounders are likely to be much better than a pick in the 20s.

Horrible deal. I like Affalo as a spare part on a playoff team, but as the centerpiece for Howard? I would much rather have Brook Lopez or Andrew Bynum (they could have had either) And the first rounders are garbage. It is going to take years for the Magic to sniff the playoffs. They need another Shaq or Dwight to be available when they secure the # 1 pick the next couple of years.

 

[thecatch]

Affalo has a bad contract but I'd still rather be paying him 7 mill than be stuck paying brook Lopez 15 over the next 4 years.

 

[Balco]

Affalo has a bad contract but I'd still rather be paying him 7 mill than be stuck paying brook Lopez 15 over the next 4 years.

Why? SO I am assuming you liked what the Magic got better than the Nets offer?

 

[Premier]

Affalo has a bad contract but I'd still rather be paying him 7 mill than be stuck paying brook Lopez 15 over the next 4 years.

Why? SO I am assuming you liked what the Magic got better than the Nets offer?

Because Brook Lopez is horrible. What the Magic received sucks, but I'd still rather have AA over Lopez at their contracts.

 

[Balco]

Affalo has a bad contract but I'd still rather be paying him 7 mill than be stuck paying brook Lopez 15 over the next 4 years.

Why? SO I am assuming you liked what the Magic got better than the Nets offer?

Because Brook Lopez is horrible. What the Magic received sucks, but I'd still rather have AA over Lopez at their contracts.

I think we have different definitions of horrible.

 

[Premier]

Affalo has a bad contract but I'd still rather be paying him 7 mill than be stuck paying brook Lopez 15 over the next 4 years.

Why? SO I am assuming you liked what the Magic got better than the Nets offer?

Because Brook Lopez is horrible. What the Magic received sucks, but I'd still rather have AA over Lopez at their contracts.

I think we have different definitions of horrible.

For 15M a year he's awful. If he's on a rookie contract or something we could talk. I also think AA will have pretty good value to a contender at some point.

 

[Balco]

Affalo has a bad contract but I'd still rather be paying him 7 mill than be stuck paying brook Lopez 15 over the next 4 years.

Why? SO I am assuming you liked what the Magic got better than the Nets offer?

Because Brook Lopez is horrible. What the Magic received sucks, but I'd still rather have AA over Lopez at their contracts.

I think we have different definitions of horrible.

For 15M a year he's awful. If he's on a rookie contract or something we could talk. I also think AA will have pretty good value to a contender at some point.

I misread. I thought you were saying Lopez was awful. He is a top 5 center in the NBA, IMO. Didn't realize you were stating his contract was awful. Coming off injury, he is definitely overpaid, but the going rate for average centers is 10 mil per. And he is an above average center.I just think the Magic have had a horrid offseason, and might have given out the most ridiculous contract of the offseason to Jameer Nelson. And took back $$$ in the Howard deal in Harrington.

 

[Premier]

Magic have had a horrendous offseason. No argument.

The Jameer contract was weird, but they have to pay somebody. Not a lot of money on the 2014 cap right now.

 

[Kev4029]

Affalo has a bad contract but I'd still rather be paying him 7 mill than be stuck paying brook Lopez 15 over the next 4 years.

Why? SO I am assuming you liked what the Magic got better than the Nets offer?

Because Brook Lopez is horrible. What the Magic received sucks, but I'd still rather have AA over Lopez at their contracts.

I think we have different definitions of horrible.

For 15M a year he's awful. If he's on a rookie contract or something we could talk. I also think AA will have pretty good value to a contender at some point.

Lopez's contract is awful but it wouldn't hurt them, especially if they could have gotten rid of some of the other terrible contracts in the process. Having one max contract as a team is trying to rebuild from the ground up won't clog up their cap. I don't think we are ever going to see a team hit home runs with 4/5 draft picks like the Thunder ever again, so to build a team similar to the Thunder you would need to at least the barebones of a franchise and the hardest position to find is a center. You can try to justify the trade all you want but the Magic really ####ed it up. At best they'll have 3 or 4 nice role players from this trade in 3 or 4 years when they are ready for the playoffs again.

 

[Premier]

You can try to justify the trade all you want but the Magic really ####ed it up.

I've said at least 8 times in this thread that it was a terrible trade for the Magic. Please read.

 

[Kev4029]

You can try to justify the trade all you want but the Magic really ####ed it up.

I've said at least 8 times in this thread that it was a terrible trade for the Magic. Please read.

And then the next post you say that Afflalo is some sort of excellent asset or Lopez blows. The Magic couldn't have possibly ####ed this up worse.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Magic have had a horrendous offseason. No argument. The Jameer contract was weird, but they have to pay somebody. Not a lot of money on the 2014 cap right now.

Should have dealt Howard for Bynum last offseason, and forced LA to take Turk as well (LA would have done it). Instead, the Magic wasted a year "going for it" and ended up with a poo-poo platter and couldn't get rid of Hedo's deal. Just plain awful.

 

[Balco]

Magic have had a horrendous offseason. No argument. The Jameer contract was weird, but they have to pay somebody. Not a lot of money on the 2014 cap right now.

Should have dealt Howard for Bynum last offseason, and forced LA to take Turk as well (LA would have done it). Instead, the Magic wasted a year "going for it" and ended up with a poo-poo platter and couldn't get rid of Hedo's deal. Just plain awful.

I guess I don't understand why they wouldn't do Bynum for Howard straight up? Bynum was the most valuable piece traded for Howard, and he went to the Sixers. Just odd.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I hope brook Lopez is an all star this year and Howard misses 2/3 of the season.

 

[Premier]

You can try to justify the trade all you want but the Magic really ####ed it up.

I've said at least 8 times in this thread that it was a terrible trade for the Magic. Please read.

And then the next post you say that Afflalo is some sort of excellent asset or Lopez blows. The Magic couldn't have possibly ####ed this up worse.

Never once said Afflalo is an excellent asset. Just that the Magic will try to flip him later and probably will get something halfway decent in return. That's hardly preposterous. Why don't you attempt to ####ing read what people type, instead of just making #### up in your head?

 

[Premier]

Magic have had a horrendous offseason. No argument. The Jameer contract was weird, but they have to pay somebody. Not a lot of money on the 2014 cap right now.

Should have dealt Howard for Bynum last offseason, and forced LA to take Turk as well (LA would have done it). Instead, the Magic wasted a year "going for it" and ended up with a poo-poo platter and couldn't get rid of Hedo's deal. Just plain awful.

I guess I don't understand why they wouldn't do Bynum for Howard straight up? Bynum was the most valuable piece traded for Howard, and he went to the Sixers. Just odd.

According to the Magic beat guys, they hate his knees. I still would have rather had him than this deal, but whatever.

 

[timschochet]

Question for you, Premier, putting aside the details of what finally went down- in your opinion, was the loss of Howard inevitable? Or could the Magic have made some specific move in the last 2-3 years which would have convinced him to stick around?

 

[Premier]

Magic have had a horrendous offseason. No argument. The Jameer contract was weird, but they have to pay somebody. Not a lot of money on the 2014 cap right now.

Should have dealt Howard for Bynum last offseason, and forced LA to take Turk as well (LA would have done it). Instead, the Magic wasted a year "going for it" and ended up with a poo-poo platter and couldn't get rid of Hedo's deal. Just plain awful.

The Magic could have done this deal last week. What are you talking about?

 

[Premier]

Question for you, Premier, putting aside the details of what finally went down- in your opinion, was the loss of Howard inevitable? Or could the Magic have made some specific move in the last 2-3 years which would have convinced him to stick around?

I doubt it. From everything I've read, Dan Fegan has been in his ear about going the big city route.

 

[Zigg]

Magic have had a horrendous offseason. No argument. The Jameer contract was weird, but they have to pay somebody. Not a lot of money on the 2014 cap right now.

Should have dealt Howard for Bynum last offseason, and forced LA to take Turk as well (LA would have done it). Instead, the Magic wasted a year "going for it" and ended up with a poo-poo platter and couldn't get rid of Hedo's deal. Just plain awful.

I guess I don't understand why they wouldn't do Bynum for Howard straight up? Bynum was the most valuable piece traded for Howard, and he went to the Sixers. Just odd.

According to the Magic beat guys, they hate his knees. I still would have rather had him than this deal, but whatever.

Unless you like Bynum, there's no reason to acquire anything that makes you mediocre. Might as well do it right and be terrible, no point getting players that are going to keep you out of the bottom 3.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

The magic lucked into drafting the best veneers of their generation twice. Wasted both of them. Got nothing for both of them. Odds they get another game changing player for a third time isn't good.

 

[Premier]

Magic have had a horrendous offseason. No argument. The Jameer contract was weird, but they have to pay somebody. Not a lot of money on the 2014 cap right now.

Should have dealt Howard for Bynum last offseason, and forced LA to take Turk as well (LA would have done it). Instead, the Magic wasted a year "going for it" and ended up with a poo-poo platter and couldn't get rid of Hedo's deal. Just plain awful.

I guess I don't understand why they wouldn't do Bynum for Howard straight up? Bynum was the most valuable piece traded for Howard, and he went to the Sixers. Just odd.

According to the Magic beat guys, they hate his knees. I still would have rather had him than this deal, but whatever.

Unless you like Bynum, there's no reason to acquire anything that makes you mediocre. Might as well do it right and be terrible, no point getting players that are going to keep you out of the bottom 3.

This is exactly their thinking.

 

[Premier]

The magic lucked into drafting the best veneers of their generation twice. Wasted both of them. Got nothing for both of them. Odds they get another game changing player for a third time isn't good.

They also got Penny's first 4 years which were tremendous. Based off their history, the only thing they have been lucky with is the lottery.

 

[Balco]

Magic have had a horrendous offseason. No argument. The Jameer contract was weird, but they have to pay somebody. Not a lot of money on the 2014 cap right now.

Should have dealt Howard for Bynum last offseason, and forced LA to take Turk as well (LA would have done it). Instead, the Magic wasted a year "going for it" and ended up with a poo-poo platter and couldn't get rid of Hedo's deal. Just plain awful.

I guess I don't understand why they wouldn't do Bynum for Howard straight up? Bynum was the most valuable piece traded for Howard, and he went to the Sixers. Just odd.

According to the Magic beat guys, they hate his knees. I still would have rather had him than this deal, but whatever.

Unless you like Bynum, there's no reason to acquire anything that makes you mediocre. Might as well do it right and be terrible, no point getting players that are going to keep you out of the bottom 3.

Have you seen that roster? Bynum alone won't make them mediocre. They would still challenge for worst record in the league. But Bynum is a big piece on a playoff contender. Affalo is not.

 

[thecatch]

You can try to justify the trade all you want but the Magic really ####ed it up.

I've said at least 8 times in this thread that it was a terrible trade for the Magic. Please read.

And then the next post you say that Afflalo is some sort of excellent asset or Lopez blows. The Magic couldn't have possibly ####ed this up worse.

Never once said Afflalo is an excellent asset. Just that the Magic will try to flip him later and probably will get something halfway decent in return. That's hardly preposterous. Why don't you attempt to ####ing read what people type, instead of just making #### up in your head?

His head is still spinning going from justifying the Afflalo and Harrington deals for the last X months to treating them now like there were cancerous. Can't wait to hear about how bad the McGee deal is if they find a sucker to take it off their hands next year.

 

[datonn]

All the talk about the Lakers, the Magic...when all folks like me care about are the Minnesota Timberwolves and their International Men of Mystery...lol

Yeah baby, yeah!

 

[ivnabru]

I also think this concern about the Lakers not having enough shooters is overstated. Howard frees up Gasol to shoot from 10-15 feet, frees up Kobe to shoot from 15-20 feet, and Nash is a very good shooter as well. Jamison REALLY improves scoring from the bench. No NBA team is perfect. Last year's champions are lacking a center and a point guard. I think this Laker team is pretty complete, and on paper should be the favorites to win it all.

Unfortunately, I think I agree. : ( This feels an awful lot like when the Lakers got Shaq, then Gasol. Really no way around the fact that they have had the best front court for years, now it's even better. If the whole Odom thing didn't happen it would be even worse.

Interesting to think how the Lakers match up to their biggest rivals.OKC has Perk who slows down Howard or at least did before the knee injury. They have a PG who will score a million on Nash and a SG who can keep Kobe honest and playing defense. They have another big man in Serge to slow down Gasol and Durant doesn't have to waste much energy defensively. I think OKC matches up pretty well with LA although I'd still give LA the advantage in a series due to having 4 top 20 guys and a top 3 in Howard.Miami makes Kobe and Gasol play D but let Howard roam and Chalmers might not be able to exploit Nash's D as bad as he needs to. Although he has become a decent scorer. Allen means Kobe never gets a defensive break since he'll have to stay on the backup too which might slow down his offense. James is by far the best guy in the league right now, but he doesn't have nearly around him as the Lakers. This reminds me a lot of the Boston teams that just had too many players to get beaten by a star or even a couple stars. I think I'd give LA a pretty good advantage here.Honestly I don't see any other threats to LA I think OKC is built the best to take them out. But unless we see some real age from Nash and a bit more age from Kobe and Gasol I don't see how this team gets beaten. I bet LA with their age will limit minutes enough that we see OKC with the 1 seed. Which means LA might have to play SA again (if SA wasn't a fluke last year).

 

[pollardsvision]

I also think this concern about the Lakers not having enough shooters is overstated. Howard frees up Gasol to shoot from 10-15 feet, frees up Kobe to shoot from 15-20 feet, and Nash is a very good shooter as well. Jamison REALLY improves scoring from the bench.

No NBA team is perfect. Last year's champions are lacking a center and a point guard. I think this Laker team is pretty complete, and on paper should be the favorites to win it all.

Unfortunately, I think I agree. : ( This feels an awful lot like when the Lakers got Shaq, then Gasol. Really no way around the fact that they have had the best front court for years, now it's even better.

If the whole Odom thing didn't happen it would be even worse.

Interesting to think how the Lakers match up to their biggest rivals.OKC has Perk who slows down Howard or at least did before the knee injury. They have a PG who will score a million on Nash and a SG who can keep Kobe honest and playing defense. They have another big man in Serge to slow down Gasol and Durant doesn't have to waste much energy defensively. I think OKC matches up pretty well with LA although I'd still give LA the advantage in a series due to having 4 top 20 guys and a top 3 in Howard.

Miami makes Kobe and Gasol play D but let Howard roam and Chalmers might not be able to exploit Nash's D as bad as he needs to. Although he has become a decent scorer. Allen means Kobe never gets a defensive break since he'll have to stay on the backup too which might slow down his offense. James is by far the best guy in the league right now, but he doesn't have nearly around him as the Lakers. This reminds me a lot of the Boston teams that just had too many players to get beaten by a star or even a couple stars. I think I'd give LA a pretty good advantage here.

Honestly I don't see any other threats to LA I think OKC is built the best to take them out. But unless we see some real age from Nash and a bit more age from Kobe and Gasol I don't see how this team gets beaten. I bet LA with their age will limit minutes enough that we see OKC with the 1 seed. Which means LA might have to play SA again (if SA wasn't a fluke last year).

Maybe the last 15 years have been a fluke?

 

[Kev4029]

His head is still spinning going from justifying the Afflalo and Harrington deals for the last X months to treating them now like there were cancerous. Can't wait to hear about how bad the McGee deal is if they find a sucker to take it off their hands next year.

I've been pretty consistent with my view of all of these players. They are all overpaid but they all fit well with the Nuggets.Here is what I said about the Harrington deal at the time:

That joe johnson contract is terrible, hawks will regret that for years. The harrington contract wasn't a great deal for the guy but the final two years are only half guaranteed, and he fills a need that the nuggets had to fill and he was the last decent big available for the mid level. At worst, again, harrington will be as bad as miller in 4 or 5 years, at least the nuggets will get a few years of production before he turns into a brad miller sort of talent.

Here is what I said about Afflalo:

So Arron Afflalo at 5/43... I don't get it, hes not an $8.6m player and I feel like they just bid against themselves.Oh well, the Nuggets should be fighting for a home playoff series this year as they go deep again this year and have a chance to grab some of their FAs in China mid season.

And for the record, here is what I said about McGee:

JaVale McGee gets 4/$44m, fully guaranteed.

More that I would have liked the Nuggets to pay him but with the way bigs were getting paid I think it was below market value. If they can stay healthy next year, I think the Nuggets will have home court in the first round.

 

[thecatch]

His head is still spinning going from justifying the Afflalo and Harrington deals for the last X months to treating them now like there were cancerous. Can't wait to hear about how bad the McGee deal is if they find a sucker to take it off their hands next year.

I've been pretty consistent with my view of all of these players. They are all overpaid but they all fit well with the Nuggets.Here is what I said about the Harrington deal at the time:

That joe johnson contract is terrible, hawks will regret that for years. The harrington contract wasn't a great deal for the guy but the final two years are only half guaranteed, and he fills a need that the nuggets had to fill and he was the last decent big available for the mid level. At worst, again, harrington will be as bad as miller in 4 or 5 years, at least the nuggets will get a few years of production before he turns into a brad miller sort of talent.

Here is what I said about Afflalo:

So Arron Afflalo at 5/43... I don't get it, hes not an $8.6m player and I feel like they just bid against themselves.Oh well, the Nuggets should be fighting for a home playoff series this year as they go deep again this year and have a chance to grab some of their FAs in China mid season.

And for the record, here is what I said about McGee:

JaVale McGee gets 4/$44m, fully guaranteed.

More that I would have liked the Nuggets to pay him but with the way bigs were getting paid I think it was below market value. If they can stay healthy next year, I think the Nuggets will have home court in the first round.

If you spent 1/10th of the time actually reading cappy's posts as you did finding these quotes, we wouldn't be having this exchange.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Hypothetical question:

You can clone all of the players from the 2012 Olympic team, and have them play an NBA schedule for the 2012-2013 season. They're clones, so when the Olympic team faces OKC, each side has a Westbrook, Durant, Harden, etc. No players who missed the games b/c of injury (Rose, Wade, Howard, etc.), just the 12 that went to London. They also don't play in a particular conference, so they play 3 games against most teams, and 2 against a few. Let's also say for travel purposes they play in Kansas City, middle of the country, and have a league-average homecourt bump. How many games would that team win? I have a guess, but I'll let some other people take a swing first.

What about Spain, given the same circumstances?

 

[Premier]

Are they motivated to dominate?

I don't see how any NBA team could even scratch a win out.

I think Spain would go 42-40ish. Guard play would get then slaughtered over a long year.

 

[ivnabru]

I also think this concern about the Lakers not having enough shooters is overstated. Howard frees up Gasol to shoot from 10-15 feet, frees up Kobe to shoot from 15-20 feet, and Nash is a very good shooter as well. Jamison REALLY improves scoring from the bench.

No NBA team is perfect. Last year's champions are lacking a center and a point guard. I think this Laker team is pretty complete, and on paper should be the favorites to win it all.

Unfortunately, I think I agree. : ( This feels an awful lot like when the Lakers got Shaq, then Gasol. Really no way around the fact that they have had the best front court for years, now it's even better.

If the whole Odom thing didn't happen it would be even worse.

Interesting to think how the Lakers match up to their biggest rivals.OKC has Perk who slows down Howard or at least did before the knee injury. They have a PG who will score a million on Nash and a SG who can keep Kobe honest and playing defense. They have another big man in Serge to slow down Gasol and Durant doesn't have to waste much energy defensively. I think OKC matches up pretty well with LA although I'd still give LA the advantage in a series due to having 4 top 20 guys and a top 3 in Howard.

Miami makes Kobe and Gasol play D but let Howard roam and Chalmers might not be able to exploit Nash's D as bad as he needs to. Although he has become a decent scorer. Allen means Kobe never gets a defensive break since he'll have to stay on the backup too which might slow down his offense. James is by far the best guy in the league right now, but he doesn't have nearly around him as the Lakers. This reminds me a lot of the Boston teams that just had too many players to get beaten by a star or even a couple stars. I think I'd give LA a pretty good advantage here.

Honestly I don't see any other threats to LA I think OKC is built the best to take them out. But unless we see some real age from Nash and a bit more age from Kobe and Gasol I don't see how this team gets beaten. I bet LA with their age will limit minutes enough that we see OKC with the 1 seed. Which means LA might have to play SA again (if SA wasn't a fluke last year).

Maybe the last 15 years have been a fluke?

They haven't won a title in quite some time and their 3 stars are 30, 35 and 36. I think there's a very good possibility last year was a fluke. A very good team who will make the playoffs and host a round but isn't a serious contender.

 

[ivnabru]

Hypothetical question: You can clone all of the players from the 2012 Olympic team, and have them play an NBA schedule for the 2012-2013 season. They're clones, so when the Olympic team faces OKC, each side has a Westbrook, Durant, Harden, etc. No players who missed the games b/c of injury (Rose, Wade, Howard, etc.), just the 12 that went to London. They also don't play in a particular conference, so they play 3 games against most teams, and 2 against a few. Let's also say for travel purposes they play in Kansas City, middle of the country, and have a league-average homecourt bump. How many games would that team win? I have a guess, but I'll let some other people take a swing first.What about Spain, given the same circumstances?

I think the US team would win around 75. There are going to be a few special performances against them by guys like James and Durant. And there will also be times when the 3 isn't falling assuming they kept relying on it so much. The Spanish team. Probably around 50. That front court would be tough to stop.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Hypothetical question: You can clone all of the players from the 2012 Olympic team, and have them play an NBA schedule for the 2012-2013 season. They're clones, so when the Olympic team faces OKC, each side has a Westbrook, Durant, Harden, etc. No players who missed the games b/c of injury (Rose, Wade, Howard, etc.), just the 12 that went to London. They also don't play in a particular conference, so they play 3 games against most teams, and 2 against a few. Let's also say for travel purposes they play in Kansas City, middle of the country, and have a league-average homecourt bump. How many games would that team win? I have a guess, but I'll let some other people take a swing first.What about Spain, given the same circumstances?

US team doesn't lose if they show up every night but ridiculous things happen so they probably win between 78-81. Spain wins between 55-60. Great front court would dominate most teams. NBA rules would hurt them a bit.

 

[Premier]

Spain's front court is great but are you all considering the guard play and depth. They would get smoked there.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Spain's front court is great but are you all considering the guard play and depth. They would get smoked there.

Their guard play is fine. It would be about average or just slightly below for NBA. The front court being top 3 would more than make up for it.Calderon is a top 15 PG.Sada/Rodriguez would be just as useful as most backup PGs in the league.Rudy/Navarro are competent SGs. Below average but there are few good SGs in the league right now. And of course these guys have been playing with each other for years and play the same style of game which is a giant advantage.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Are they motivated to dominate?I don't see how any NBA team could even scratch a win out.

Besides the Rockets of course

 

[Major]

Are they motivated to dominate?I don't see how any NBA team could even scratch a win out.

Besides the Rockets of course

assuming Donuts recovers from that pulled hammy, then yes.

 

[Abraham]

Hennigan made comments over the weekend that, basically, the rockets signing their rookies (and thus not being able to trade them for 30 days) took them out of it. He said "what people think was available and what is actually available are two different things" and "the offer sheet being signed changed what we had to work with" (paraphrasing)

So basically, by waiting a few extra weeks pleading with dwight the magic cost themselves a better package.

 

[Premier]

Hennigan made comments over the weekend that, basically, the rockets signing their rookies (and thus not being able to trade them for 30 days) took them out of it. He said "what people think was available and what is actually available are two different things" and "the offer sheet being signed changed what we had to work with" (paraphrasing)So basically, by waiting a few extra weeks pleading with dwight the magic cost themselves a better package.

I'm not sure that's what he's saying. Seems to be implying the Rockets offer wasn't that great.

 

[Kiddnets]

Hennigan made comments over the weekend that, basically, the rockets signing their rookies (and thus not being able to trade them for 30 days) took them out of it. He said "what people think was available and what is actually available are two different things" and "the offer sheet being signed changed what we had to work with" (paraphrasing)So basically, by waiting a few extra weeks pleading with dwight the magic cost themselves a better package.

The Magic GM really did butcher this thing by stringing it out....he should have made the deal while the Nets and rockets were still able to deal and would have done much better....even if they refused to deal with the Nets having them pull out destroyed their leverage.I know Magic fans on this board stated their disdain of Lopez but I am wondering now that it is all said and done would you have preferred the Nets package of Lopez, Hump, M Brooks and 4 unprotected 1st rder plus unloading Richardson and Turk to the deal that you recd from LA? The media says its clearly a worse deal from LA but sometimes fans have different reaction.

 

[Premier]

Spain's front court is great but are you all considering the guard play and depth. They would get smoked there.

Their guard play is fine. It would be about average or just slightly below for NBA. The front court being top 3 would more than make up for it.Calderon is a top 15 PG.Sada/Rodriguez would be just as useful as most backup PGs in the league.Rudy/Navarro are competent SGs. Below average but there are few good SGs in the league right now. And of course these guys have been playing with each other for years and play the same style of game which is a giant advantage.

Calderon/Rudy/Navarro are average NBA guard play? 2 of those guys are without teams right now.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Spain's front court is great but are you all considering the guard play and depth. They would get smoked there.

Their guard play is fine. It would be about average or just slightly below for NBA. The front court being top 3 would more than make up for it.Calderon is a top 15 PG.Sada/Rodriguez would be just as useful as most backup PGs in the league.Rudy/Navarro are competent SGs. Below average but there are few good SGs in the league right now. And of course these guys have been playing with each other for years and play the same style of game which is a giant advantage.

Calderon/Rudy/Navarro are average NBA guard play? 2 of those guys are without teams right now.

Sure. The bottom half of SGs in the league are pretty terrible so you'd lose very little by going to guys like Rudy and Navarro.

 

[Premier]

Spain's front court is great but are you all considering the guard play and depth. They would get smoked there.

Their guard play is fine. It would be about average or just slightly below for NBA. The front court being top 3 would more than make up for it.Calderon is a top 15 PG.Sada/Rodriguez would be just as useful as most backup PGs in the league.Rudy/Navarro are competent SGs. Below average but there are few good SGs in the league right now. And of course these guys have been playing with each other for years and play the same style of game which is a giant advantage.

Calderon/Rudy/Navarro are average NBA guard play? 2 of those guys are without teams right now.

Sure. The bottom half of SGs in the league are pretty terrible so you'd lose very little by going to guys like Rudy and Navarro.

So then why don't those guys have teams?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Spain's front court is great but are you all considering the guard play and depth. They would get smoked there.

Their guard play is fine. It would be about average or just slightly below for NBA. The front court being top 3 would more than make up for it.Calderon is a top 15 PG.Sada/Rodriguez would be just as useful as most backup PGs in the league.Rudy/Navarro are competent SGs. Below average but there are few good SGs in the league right now. And of course these guys have been playing with each other for years and play the same style of game which is a giant advantage.

Calderon/Rudy/Navarro are average NBA guard play? 2 of those guys are without teams right now.

Sure. The bottom half of SGs in the league are pretty terrible so you'd lose very little by going to guys like Rudy and Navarro.

So then why don't those guys have teams?

Because you can get the same production from guys on rookie deals that may have potential. Are Rudy and Navarro actively seeking deals or are they just as happy to play in Europe?

 

[Abraham]

Hennigan made comments over the weekend that, basically, the rockets signing their rookies (and thus not being able to trade them for 30 days) took them out of it. He said "what people think was available and what is actually available are two different things" and "the offer sheet being signed changed what we had to work with" (paraphrasing)So basically, by waiting a few extra weeks pleading with dwight the magic cost themselves a better package.

I'm not sure that's what he's saying. Seems to be implying the Rockets offer wasn't that great.

Correct. But the reason it wasn't that great was they were no longer able to trade any of their three drafted rookies due to signin them (which could not really wait much longer). If Orlando had dealt Howard three weeks ago then the rockets could have offered the rookies. As it is, the best Houston could do would have been Martin, the raptors lotto pick, the mavs pick, and their own 2013 first rounder.

 

[Premier]

Hennigan made comments over the weekend that, basically, the rockets signing their rookies (and thus not being able to trade them for 30 days) took them out of it. He said "what people think was available and what is actually available are two different things" and "the offer sheet being signed changed what we had to work with" (paraphrasing)So basically, by waiting a few extra weeks pleading with dwight the magic cost themselves a better package.

I'm not sure that's what he's saying. Seems to be implying the Rockets offer wasn't that great.

Correct. But the reason it wasn't that great was they were no longer able to trade any of their three drafted rookies due to signin them (which could not really wait much longer). If Orlando had dealt Howard three weeks ago then the rockets could have offered the rookies. As it is, the best Houston could do would have been Martin, the raptors lotto pick, the mavs pick, and their own 2013 first rounder.

You have no idea what the Rockets offered.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Time to let it go, Abe.