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RB Ty'son Williams, BAL (1 Viewer)

ldizzle said:
Also wasn’t really his fault. OL was terrible and that was definitely a missed assignment. 
 

No coach in their right mind would design a play like that having him block Nassib
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Lamar needs to hang onto the ball

when the Raiders flooded the left and right sides, Lamar should have seen this and ran straight up the middle.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I think the reason they asked him to take a pay cut was because Jones showed well In the preseason & they wanted to save $.

To my eye, he didn’t look any worse on MNF than he did in NOLA. 

what you think is incorrect I see as opinion. My arguments aren’t “false” - you disagree with them.

And that’s ok. Good luck to you. 
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Murray was terrible in the preseason- 10 carries for 12 yards and a fumble. Multiple reports said he was slow and his performance lackluster, and his week 1 performance wasn't much better. No offense, but he looked way worse than in his heyday- he used to run a sub 4.4 40, no way does he do so now. He's lost quite a bit, and it's pretty obvious the Saints saw that as well.

You can call anything an opinion if you want to, but some are far more substantiated than others. You keep saying Williams was benched for missing a pass block. Sure, you're entitled to that opinion, but it's been pointed out to you over and over that the play happened on their last offensive play of the game, so I guess you would say that Lamar and their entire offense was benched as well. It's pretty silly.

And your characterization of the Ravens running game is entirely inaccurate. They don't ask their RBs to pass block very often (see the evidence already presented), Williams has been praised for his pass blocking by his coaches and was the only RB who did so on Monday night, and they run the ball up the middle with their RBs FAR more often then they run it to the outside. These really aren't opinions, it's clear if you watch them play, but if you still aren't convinced I suppose you could chart the plays.

Again, I've already admitted that there could be a plausible explanation for his performance and it could get better- maybe he's a bit out of shape, banged up, playing it safe, whatever. However, it's hard to believe anyone could watch him play in the preseason or in week 1 and think he's the same guy as he was. Not even close IMO.

Anyway, this doesn't mean I think Williams is going to run away with the job or Murray is going to get cut. Time will tell how it all shakes out. I just think the arguments being made are way off base, so much so that I have to assume there's a lot of bias involved.

 
humpback said:
Murray was terrible in the preseason- 10 carries for 12 yards and a fumble. Multiple reports said he was slow and his performance lackluster, and his week 1 performance wasn't much better. No offense, but he looked way worse than in his heyday- he used to run a sub 4.4 40, no way does he do so now. He's lost quite a bit, and it's pretty obvious the Saints saw that as well.

You can call anything an opinion if you want to, but some are far more substantiated than others. You keep saying Williams was benched for missing a pass block. Sure, you're entitled to that opinion, but it's been pointed out to you over and over that the play happened on their last offensive play of the game, so I guess you would say that Lamar and their entire offense was benched as well. It's pretty silly.

And your characterization of the Ravens running game is entirely inaccurate. They don't ask their RBs to pass block very often (see the evidence already presented), Williams has been praised for his pass blocking by his coaches and was the only RB who did so on Monday night, and they run the ball up the middle with their RBs FAR more often then they run it to the outside. These really aren't opinions, it's clear if you watch them play, but if you still aren't convinced I suppose you could chart the plays.

Again, I've already admitted that there could be a plausible explanation for his performance and it could get better- maybe he's a bit out of shape, banged up, playing it safe, whatever. However, it's hard to believe anyone could watch him play in the preseason or in week 1 and think he's the same guy as he was. Not even close IMO.

Anyway, this doesn't mean I think Williams is going to run away with the job or Murray is going to get cut. Time will tell how it all shakes out. I just think the arguments being made are way off base, so much so that I have to assume there's a lot of bias involved.
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No bias. Just saying what I’m seeing and sharing an opinion. Thanks for your feedback. 

He looked just like he’s always looked to my layman’s eye on MNF & I rostered him for years; but I’ll conceded that I’m not as keen of an observer as you are. I’m just an unfrozen caveman. 

I didn’t see Murray at all in the preseason, but 10 carries sure seems like a really small sample size to me compared to his excellent career where as recently as last year he averaged 4.5 ypc, his highest average yardage since his sophomore season. 

But again, what do I, a simple caveman know? Your world frightens and confuses me.  

Anyway, you have your opinions, and that’s totally ok. Thanks for sharing them with me. 

Have a great rest of your weekend.👍🏼

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
No bias. Just saying what I’m seeing and sharing an opinion. Thanks for your feedback. 

He looked just like he’s always looked to my layman’s eye on MNF & I rostered him for years; but I’ll conceded that I’m not as keen of an observer as you are. I’m just an unfrozen caveman. 

I didn’t see Murray at all in the preseason, but 10 carries sure seems like a really small sample size to me compared to his excellent career where as recently as last year he averaged 4.5 ypc, his highest average yardage since his sophomore season. 

But again, what do I, a simple caveman know? Your world frightens and confuses me.  

Anyway, you have your opinions, and that’s totally ok. Thanks for sharing them with me. 

Have a great rest of your weekend.👍🏼
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And yet the organization that has seen every rep decided that he was no longer good enough to be their #2 RB and took a dead cap hit in the next 2 years to let him go. And the writers who cover the team said he looked bad. Hmm, should I put more stock in an internet caveman or the Saints organization and their beat writers?

You have a great rest of your weekend as well.

 
Sitting Williams in favor of Chase Edmonds this week until further info on how they'll be using him.

 
humpback said:
Murray was terrible in the preseason- 10 carries for 12 yards and a fumble. Multiple reports said he was slow and his performance lackluster, and his week 1 performance wasn't much better. No offense, but he looked way worse than in his heyday- he used to run a sub 4.4 40, no way does he do so now. He's lost quite a bit, and it's pretty obvious the Saints saw that as well.

You can call anything an opinion if you want to, but some are far more substantiated than others. You keep saying Williams was benched for missing a pass block. Sure, you're entitled to that opinion, but it's been pointed out to you over and over that the play happened on their last offensive play of the game, so I guess you would say that Lamar and their entire offense was benched as well. It's pretty silly.

And your characterization of the Ravens running game is entirely inaccurate. They don't ask their RBs to pass block very often (see the evidence already presented), Williams has been praised for his pass blocking by his coaches and was the only RB who did so on Monday night, and they run the ball up the middle with their RBs FAR more often then they run it to the outside. These really aren't opinions, it's clear if you watch them play, but if you still aren't convinced I suppose you could chart the plays.

Again, I've already admitted that there could be a plausible explanation for his performance and it could get better- maybe he's a bit out of shape, banged up, playing it safe, whatever. However, it's hard to believe anyone could watch him play in the preseason or in week 1 and think he's the same guy as he was. Not even close IMO.

Anyway, this doesn't mean I think Williams is going to run away with the job or Murray is going to get cut. Time will tell how it all shakes out. I just think the arguments being made are way off base, so much so that I have to assume there's a lot of bias involved.
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Preseason stats means nothing in these cases 

 
I think right now the Ravens aren't concerned about finding a playmaker at RB. Lamar is their playmaker. They want a running back who is reliable. A guy who can pass block, and hold on to the ball. A guy who knows where to be on offense. They don't trust Williams as of yet. I think it was similar to Dobbins last year. Hopefully he improves and gains trust as we go along just like Dobbins did and he'll get more and more touches.

 
Judge Smails said:
Preseason stats means nothing in these cases 
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Seriously. In 2020 Murray had his best YPC (4.5 on 146 carries) since his rookie season (5.2 on just 82 carries), he’s missed 1 game in 4 seasons, and he’s had an almost identical carry total  the last 3 seasons. He’s also been a capable receiver out of the backfield, with 22/26, 34/43 & 23/26 the last 3 seasons, respectively. 

Yet based on 10 meaningless preseason carries, folks are sticking  a fork in him? 🤔 

Seems like some might be seeing Murray through Williams colored glasses. 

To my untrained eye, in that MNF game, Murray looked the same as he has the last several years, & IMO he’s the favorite for production in the Ravens backfield based on experience.

If Williams comes out swinging & takes the job, dominating carries & snap count, I will heartily eat crow right here in this very topic, but I just don’t see it happening. 

These two players are not alike. Williams looked quick, sure. He has that “shot out of a cannon” burst of a young RB. 

But Murray looks like an NFL running back who’s played in an elite offense for many years. While he wasn’t touched on his TD run, he sure did find the blocks to get there. Some running backs woulda run right into the blockers on that play. That play was more difficult than Murray made it look, and he’s done it for years. 

Speed is a good thing. But it isn’t everything. 

Should be a fun game SNF.  I will continue to hope that I’m wrong here purely for the sake of Williams shareholders. Best of luck to you all, and to everyone tomorrow.  :hifive:

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
No bias. Just saying what I’m seeing and sharing an opinion. Thanks for your feedback. 

He looked just like he’s always looked to my layman’s eye on MNF & I rostered him for years; but I’ll conceded that I’m not as keen of an observer as you are. I’m just an unfrozen caveman. 

I didn’t see Murray at all in the preseason, but 10 carries sure seems like a really small sample size to me compared to his excellent career where as recently as last year he averaged 4.5 ypc, his highest average yardage since his sophomore season. 

But again, what do I, a simple caveman know? Your world frightens and confuses me.  

Anyway, you have your opinions, and that’s totally ok. Thanks for sharing them with me. 

Have a great rest of your weekend.👍🏼
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RIP Keerock. 

 
KC gave up 4 TDs to RBs last week. Sounds like there is plenty to go around.

if Bal get behind will they want the explosiveness. Will they start out with time sucking drives?

 
Sarlakticacid said:
KC gave up 4 TDs to RBs last week. Sounds like there is plenty to go around.

if Bal get behind will they want the explosiveness. Will they start out with time sucking drives?
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The best way to beat Mahomes is to keep him on the sidelines. If I’m Baltimore I run the ball as much as possible. 

 
houston said:
Have him in multiple leagues and have very low expectations this week. Like 8-30 and 1 catch for 5 yards low. Hope I’m wrong. 
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That's kind of how I'm leaning towards a well.  Maybe even less carries.  I see his value as a stash for later in the season.

Oh well here comes another 20 points on my bench.

 
houston said:
Have him in multiple leagues and have very low expectations this week. Like 8-30 and 1 catch for 5 yards low. Hope I’m wrong. 
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1 catch?  Really?

I am calling 
11 - 55  and 5 catches for 39 yards

with a decent chance score

 
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He had a whopping 3 catches in week one, and I expect him to play less, so yes I’ll stick to 1 catch and hope to be proven wrong. 

 
Judge Smails said:
Preseason stats means nothing in these cases 
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I tend to agree and don't pay much attention to them generally, although fumbles are never good. I only brought it up as a counter to the argument that he wasn't cut due to performance. Both Freeman and Murray had terrible preseason stats and Jones Jr. had good stats- Freeman and Murray were cut and Jones became the #2 RB.

When the stats align with what people in the know have been seeing and reporting all preseason it probably isn't a complete coincidence.

 
Have him starting over Davis and Javonte in one full ppr and him over JRob and Dillon in a half. Tampa and Denver run D is the main (and Urban Meyer’s weird decisions week 1) reason. People really think Williams is only touching the ball a handful of times this week?

 
Sam Quentin said:
1 catch?  Really?

I am calling 
11 - 55  and 5 catches for 39 yards

with a decent chance score
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His range of outcomes is wide IMO, but 5 catches would be very surprising. The Ravens just don't utilize their RBs in the passing game much, combined they only averaged ~3 catches per game last year and no one had 5 in one game.

Double said:
Have him starting over Davis and Javonte in one full ppr and him over JRob and Dillon in a half. Tampa and Denver run D is the main (and Urban Meyer’s weird decisions week 1) reason. People really think Williams is only touching the ball a handful of times this week?
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I don't think so, but it's certainly possible.

 
humpback said:
His range of outcomes is wide IMO, but 5 catches would be very surprising. The Ravens just don't utilize their RBs in the passing game much, combined they only averaged ~3 catches per game last year and no one had 5 in one game.

I don't think so, but it's certainly possible.
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Staley and Villenueva were getting destroyed last week,  IIRC, PFF had them the 64th and 65th worst performing tackles in Week One.  If BAL is going to mitigate poor T play.....they're going to have to shed past expectations and dink and dunk to mitigate any O Line ineffectiveness.  Averaging 5 catches is too much for their O over the course of a ful season......but I could see them throwing alot more to the RBS (Freeman and Bell are historically good catching RBs, Williams is supposed to be a good catching RB and Murray can do it with a modicum of effectiveness) in the next few games to help right their ship. Heck, with Brown ailing and Batemen out...it's not like they have a plethora of talent at the WR position to throw to right now anyway.  

 
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humpback said:
I tend to agree and don't pay much attention to them generally, although fumbles are never good. I only brought it up as a counter to the argument that he wasn't cut due to performance.
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Wait what? You agree that preseason stats are meaningless, and you only brought up a completely irrelevant tiny sample size of 10 preseason snaps to show that he had a poor performance to counter the argument that he wasn’t cut for poor performance?

that seems wildly contradictory. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Wait what? You agree that preseason stats are meaningless, and you only brought up a completely irrelevant tiny sample size of 10 preseason snaps to show that he had a poor performance to counter the argument that he wasn’t cut for poor performance?

that seems wildly contradictory. 
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Lol whatever dude, keep thinking that Murray looks as good as he ever has and the Ravens have their RBs do completely different things than they actually do. It's almost like you're trying to be wrong, but you're entitled to your opinion. 

 
Thunderlips said:
Staley and Villenueva were getting destroyed last week,  IIRC, PFF had them the 64th and 65th worst performing tackles in Week One.  If BAL is going to mitigate poor T play.....they're going to have to shed past expectations and dink and dunk to mitigate any O Line ineffectiveness.  Averaging 5 catches is too much for their O over the course of a ful season......but I could see them throwing alot more to the RBS (Freeman and Bell are historically good catching RBs, Williams is supposed to be a good catching RB and Murray can do it with a modicum of effectiveness) in the next few games to help right their ship. Heck, with Brown ailing and Batemen out...it's not like they have a plethora of talent at the WR position to throw to right now anyway.  
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Yep, they were brutal, and I don't disagree with the premise, it's just not something that they have incorporated much (partly because Lamar isn't particularly good at it). I think they'd much prefer to run it down their throats, but we'll see whether that works.

Like you said, all of their RBs are decent at catching the ball, so even if they do target them more as a group it would still be surprising if any one of them ended up with 5 catches. Not out of the realm of possibility, but not something I would predict.

 
humpback said:
Lol whatever dude, keep thinking that Murray looks as good as he ever has and the Ravens have their RBs do completely different things than they actually do. It's almost like you're trying to be wrong, but you're entitled to your opinion. 
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So you were being wildly contradictory but won’t admit it. 

and yet you call me out as being wrong. 

Got it. 
👍🏼

 
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“NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Ravens could "roll with the hot hand" for their backfield in Week 2 against the Chiefs.

He noted that Ty'Son Williams, Devonta Freeman, and Latavius Murray "should all see carries." The addition of Freeman turns this backfield into a trio and could make all three backs useless for fantasy purposes. Murray and Williams split the carries in Week 1. Williams totaled 65 yards and a touchdown on nine carries and looked like the more explosive back of the two in his debut. However, he also missed a crucial pass-block late in the game that resulted in a Lamar Jackson fumble. Williams is a risky but viable FLEX option this week while Freeman and Murray can be left on the bench for now.”

the “hot hand” approach. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
So you were being wildly contradictory but won’t admit it. 

and yet you call out as being wrong. 

Got it. 
👍🏼
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I love you both. Both good posters. But this conversation is going in circles. Maybe take it to the private chat or both just realize it’s not going to be “won” on an Internet forum.

I keep popping in here thinking I might catch some Ty’son news.

 
VikingFrog said:
I love you both. Both good posters. But this conversation is going in circles. Maybe take it to the private chat or both just realize it’s not going to be “won” on an Internet forum.

I keep popping in here thinking I might catch some Ty’son news.
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All good. Good luck with Ty’son. 

 
Ugh, I think Williams wins in a "hot hand" scenario just because of his burst.   Now I'm triple guessing myself,  There's no way I pick the right guy for my flex spot this week.  Going to lose to Gano kicking 5 fgs.

 
wgoldsph said:
Ugh, I think Williams wins in a "hot hand" scenario just because of his burst.   Now I'm triple guessing myself,  There's no way I pick the right guy for my flex spot this week.  Going to lose to Gano kicking 5 fgs.
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Have both and am avoiding for now.  Gaskin it is in flex.  But I would agree Ty’son is the upside pick.

 
wgoldsph said:
Ugh, I think Williams wins in a "hot hand" scenario just because of his burst.   Now I'm triple guessing myself,  There's no way I pick the right guy for my flex spot this week.  Going to lose to Gano kicking 5 fgs.
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I think it’s coachspeak & all the RBs will vulture carries from each other.

Was Freeman activated to the starting roster? 

Brutal you faced Gano - he’s a FA in my league. Just a monster day. That’s some bad luck. 

I hope ya pick the right guy. Who are your other options? 

 
VikingFrog said:
All good.

And I’m a sick person. I traded away Ty’son after game one, so I’m just in here second guessing everything in my team and life.

So…. Bad Luck with Ty’son I guess.
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Or good, if he’s in a RB quagmire. 

I was happy I got something I needed for him after game 1, so no ragrets.
 

Giggity

 
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VikingFrog said:
All good.

And I’m a sick person. I traded away Ty’son after game one, so I’m just in here second guessing everything in my team and life.

So…. Bad Luck with Ty’son I guess.
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No way to tell how this things will shake out. Injury Bug ultimately decides everything at the RB position... it's what brought Ty Williams to relevance, and what put a stable of re-tread runners around him... much yet to be determined.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
“NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Ravens could "roll with the hot hand" for their backfield in Week 2 against the Chiefs.

He noted that Ty'Son Williams, Devonta Freeman, and Latavius Murray "should all see carries." The addition of Freeman turns this backfield into a trio and could make all three backs useless for fantasy purposes. Murray and Williams split the carries in Week 1. Williams totaled 65 yards and a touchdown on nine carries and looked like the more explosive back of the two in his debut. However, he also missed a crucial pass-block late in the game that resulted in a Lamar Jackson fumble. Williams is a risky but viable FLEX option this week while Freeman and Murray can be left on the bench for now.”

the “hot hand” approach. 
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“Hot hand” favors Williams…

 
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