bostonfred
Footballguy
It was the beginning of sequence of events for obj that led to him being traded for a seemingly below market value deal.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
WR Tyreek Hill, MIA (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter amnesiac
- Start date
Football Jones
Footballguy
How much (if any) his value drops depends on the circumstances/details.
It's simply an an unknown right now until we get more info.
It's simply an an unknown right now until we get more info.
I'll keep it simple and define total vindication so no grey area.
No charges filed. Child Protection services comes back with no findings indicating he did anything. NFL will investigate no matter what at this point and they choose to not suspend after they investigate. That's what I mean.
Football Jones
Footballguy
I don't even see how we can discuss anything definitive right now. We can guess, but nothing more.
The range of outcomes is enormous. Anywhere from it's substantiated the kid fell off the monkey bars to Hill got pissed & broke his arm.
The range of outcomes is enormous. Anywhere from it's substantiated the kid fell off the monkey bars to Hill got pissed & broke his arm.
Last edited by a moderator:
NJ
Footballguy
My personal opinion is even if all of that happens, you are still going to have people in dynasty leagues that are tainted by this situation and are not willing to pay as much for him going forward as they would have been a month ago. Maybe 2-3 years down the line if he's still putting up top WR numbers his value gets back to where it was a month ago, but it's going to take a while IMHO.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
That makes no sense in the context of what is being discussed here. We aren't talking about the perception NFL teams have of a player's value - we are talking about a player's fantasy football value. Obviously there is some correlation, but you are conflating two different concepts.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I did. You are still confused.
A chain of events that includes a player being traded to another team could impact a player's fantasy value, even if his real life NFL value was unaffected.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I don't think his request is all that ridiculous.
Ray Lewis was involved in an investigation where a buddy took the blame for him killing a guy.
According to MFG in 2000 his ADP was pick 41.13
The following year, after winning superbowl mvp, his ADP was 56.83. weird...
Your turn
Ray Lewis was involved in an investigation where a buddy took the blame for him killing a guy.
According to MFG in 2000 his ADP was pick 41.13
The following year, after winning superbowl mvp, his ADP was 56.83. weird...
Your turn
What a tired argument. No one can cite an actual example. I guess if the argument has turned into one person out there in some league somewhere is going to devalue Hill then ok whatever.
I'd even bring up Elliot and he actually got suspended. It's extremely hard for me to look at his current dynasty value in my leagues or in ADP data and conclude he has lost any value. But again I guess if we are going to play the someone out there somewhere in some league that just might devalue him so be it. You all win. Whatever.
I'd even bring up Elliot and he actually got suspended. It's extremely hard for me to look at his current dynasty value in my leagues or in ADP data and conclude he has lost any value. But again I guess if we are going to play the someone out there somewhere in some league that just might devalue him so be it. You all win. Whatever.
steveski
Footballguy
I have someone dangling 1.3 out there for him from me and it's getting harder and harder to resist. Sometimes I want to say, grab it and run before he's worth nothing. On the other hand, it's almost guaranteed that the 1.3 will never be a Tyreek Hill and is even a good chance will be a complete bust.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
What part of my reply saying that it had nothing to do with him being traded still confuses you?
Interseptopus
Footballguy
could be marquis brown, who could very well be a round 1 target for KC of they have to move on from tyreek...
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I agree that it isn't super compelling when nobody can offer an example. And you are right - Elliott's value at this point doesn't seem remotely harmed by his past incident.
I don't play IDP, did not play dynasty in 2000 so a lot I'm not familiar with here to compare or offer any other reasons why he fell but based on what you are showing me here but seems like a pretty good example to me.
bostonfred
Footballguy
This is literally exactly what happened to obj. Do you seriously not notice the difference in media coverage between his second year in the league and now? Do you not see any correlation at all between that change and him being on a new team?
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
So any new news? Last thing I see is that he’s being investigated for two separate incidents now.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I just cited two guys whose value changed this offseason after being "totally exonerated" and you decided they aren't "actual examples".
You're arguing about whether people will think something with people who think it, and you're the sole judge of all examples that contradict your viewpoint. Spoiler alert, you appear to think they're all wrong.
If you want to be productive, maybe try saying something like "i understand some people will downgrade him at first, even if he's exonerated, but i think they'll forgive him pretty quickly when he starts producing" or "his trade value might be down for a while but his production won't and this is a great buying opportunity".
You don't have to "win" the argument by demanding examples and declaring them "so wrong". That sounds more like an owner who is defending a player he can't trade than an impartial observer giving his honest opinion on a player.
I last checked about an hour ago and heard nothing. You've been uncovering a few twitter gems so you probably already found some of the stuff I did. A writer for the KC Star who contributed for the story did a radio interview and said he thinks he will be charged. Did not say that means he thinks he is guilty or will be found guilty but he thinks he is going to be charged and you can tell he has more info than he has shared so it's pretty concerning. I'm guessing you already knew that since that was hours ago.
Don't really see those examples as valid and don't need you to give me message board instructions either.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I did see that. There’s been a couple guys who seem to insinuate that there’s more that’s not known. I don’t know if they’re trying to make themselves relevant or if there really is.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
It's so easy to be a "reporter" and say you think he will be charged because "there is so much more not being reported"... there are practically no consequences for being wrong on that. it's what today's "reporters" do. Just make up a source if you dont have one.
That being said, I think he will be charged because we arent getting the full story yet
You'd think if they were all sitting on something that it would leak somewhere but I know you and both have been digging up info on twitter and anywhere we can find for a few days now and the more I read and more info I gather it just keeps sounding worse and really have found no info on the positive side for him. What I once thought was positive, like the boys IG photo that did not show a broken arm and his name not being on the second report have long been explained away.
Really about the saving grace with respect to there being more info out that we don't know is I assume the Chiefs are investigating and if they know this info and they've not cut him yet that is about my positive and that's a stretch.
kutta
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Meno, if everyone in this thread thinks he loses value regardless of the outcome of this particular incident, then it's a pretty good chance he loses value. How much? Hard to tell since it only takes one person to make a pick or a trade, but at this point I would call it a "fact" he at least loses some value.
Needing examples is pointless and helps nothing. There doesn't need to be any examples for this to be a fact.
I for one will never value him the same. If he is totally innocent then he is apparently in an unstable family situation where things can go south at any time.
Needing examples is pointless and helps nothing. There doesn't need to be any examples for this to be a fact.
I for one will never value him the same. If he is totally innocent then he is apparently in an unstable family situation where things can go south at any time.
So if it turns out the boy broke his arm playing and it was a neighbor that called in the reports that still means he is in an unstable family situation? Not sure I follow that line of logic and that in an nutshell is why people can't see clear to how his value will be if this turns out to be nothing.
I've said all I can say on this subject and will let it rest. I only hope we get a chance to see how this turns out for his value if this does in fact turn out to be nothing but I'm pretty pessimistic on that outcome.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
The only logic that needs to be followed is that people are saying they wont value him the same. That is all that actually matters
Gandalf
Footballguy
This is exactly right. Value of any player is the price others are willing to pay for that player
Last edited by a moderator:
amnesiac
beer is good
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I don't play IDP but Reuben Foster was recently cleared of all charges. What is his value like in IDP right now?
The examples thing is kind of silly though because there's not any examples in either direction. We're treading new ground here. Regardless I would be amazingly shocked if people weren't spooked by this enough to lower Hill's value even if nothing comes of it. I can only speak for myself here but even if they announce tomorrow that no charges are being filed against Hill there is absolutely a 0% chance that I'd be willing to pay anything close to what I would have paid to acquire him 2 weeks ago.
The examples thing is kind of silly though because there's not any examples in either direction. We're treading new ground here. Regardless I would be amazingly shocked if people weren't spooked by this enough to lower Hill's value even if nothing comes of it. I can only speak for myself here but even if they announce tomorrow that no charges are being filed against Hill there is absolutely a 0% chance that I'd be willing to pay anything close to what I would have paid to acquire him 2 weeks ago.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
You need to step back into the real world.
A guy who admitted to beating his pregnant wife and now has been accused of breaking his child’s arm. You think he’ll be a first round dynasty pick next year? I don’t believe you actually think that. Time to quit trolling. There’s no way that happens unless there’s video proof of him not doing it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Looks like I missed 10-cent beer night.
trader jake
Footballguy
skinfanjon
Footballguy
Just dealt him for Damien and Mike Williams.
:(
:(
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I went to school with a girl who broke both her arms falling from the monkey bars.
Last edited by a moderator:
Year and a half if this situation turns out this way IMO. People will be wary of TMZ finding something and putting it out there like Hunt who seemed in the clear until the video got out. You know they have got their dogs on this right now trying to get whatever they can. Once he’s thrown up stupid numbers with Mahomes again, many will forget. The last of those holding out will want to see him get thru another offseason with no bad news and see if the Chiefs give him the big extension.
But this is a total hypothetical since we have no idea what’s going to happen.
matuski
Footballguy
You have multiple fantasy football players here informing you that this has affected his value.
That is proof of in and of itself of the logic you are having a hard time following.
matttyl
Footballguy
His value here is absolutely affected. Look, I get that every situation is different, but we have a lot of very recent examples of player's off the field issues ending up affecting their value.
Hunt is the obvious one - and that one happened so quickly he went from obvious first round to no one wanting to touch him at all.
AB had that issue with throwing furniture out of a window, along with other issues, and then a team change. He was still producing on the field like he always had been, but his value is definitely lower now that it was a year ago (and I think still would be if he were still on the Steelers).
Zeke's value dropped with his off the field issues and all that drama of a potential suspension looming for what seemed like forever. Still a top producer on the field, and his value now (a year or two later) is back up to where it had been before.
I know Ingram changed teams, and that was a huge impact on his value, but his off the field PED suspension last year (even after the suspension was served) harmed his value greatly. I get that he was getting older, but people saw that PED suspension and knew that the next one would be much worse if he were busted - and I view this situation like that even if Hill does walk away without suspension or additional legal problems. It's something that will always be there with him.
Can I bring up Josh Gordon? His off the field stuff totally rocked his value, even though when on the field he was fine and even the #1 overall WR one year when he missed two games.
It's 2019 - off the field stuff is a huge concern with players now. For a myriad of reasons - family issues, drug issues, just being a general d bag, social media drama, PEDs, pulling a woman's top down in a parade, child rearing drama, so on. Heck, I even take pause when I hear that a player gets a speeding ticket where they are doing 100+ MPH.
Hunt is the obvious one - and that one happened so quickly he went from obvious first round to no one wanting to touch him at all.
AB had that issue with throwing furniture out of a window, along with other issues, and then a team change. He was still producing on the field like he always had been, but his value is definitely lower now that it was a year ago (and I think still would be if he were still on the Steelers).
Zeke's value dropped with his off the field issues and all that drama of a potential suspension looming for what seemed like forever. Still a top producer on the field, and his value now (a year or two later) is back up to where it had been before.
I know Ingram changed teams, and that was a huge impact on his value, but his off the field PED suspension last year (even after the suspension was served) harmed his value greatly. I get that he was getting older, but people saw that PED suspension and knew that the next one would be much worse if he were busted - and I view this situation like that even if Hill does walk away without suspension or additional legal problems. It's something that will always be there with him.
Can I bring up Josh Gordon? His off the field stuff totally rocked his value, even though when on the field he was fine and even the #1 overall WR one year when he missed two games.
It's 2019 - off the field stuff is a huge concern with players now. For a myriad of reasons - family issues, drug issues, just being a general d bag, social media drama, PEDs, pulling a woman's top down in a parade, child rearing drama, so on. Heck, I even take pause when I hear that a player gets a speeding ticket where they are doing 100+ MPH.
wakelawyer
Footballguy
Care to share a list of guys that have been accused but there were no charges and no suspension? It's a very small list. Which gives credence to the possibility that charges or a suspension will follow here.
The player that comes to mind is Dez Bryant and the Walmart video. He was accused, wasn't charged, and wasn't suspended. But his ADP took a hit.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
And you need to step off your pedestal. Some people won't drop his value if this all remains unsubstantiated. I am one of those people along with Meno. He hasn't even been accused with any credibility. He hasn't been charged. He's being investigated. That's it. If I called your local PD and told them I thought you were abusing some child or elderly person or whatever they would investigate that too. It doesn't mean anything yet. I hope nothing comes of this but people do drop his value anyway. I will happily take him at a discount.
Obviously if something does come out, like real evidence of some kind, or the NFL takes action on their own, then of course that changes things. But most rational people won't just automatically drop a guy's value when there's nothing to substantiate the story.
In this situation. You either believe or disbelieve the story.
I would think looking at trades trades that are happening, that not many will buy for pre story value. You might be willing to take the risk, that all will be fine and pay a very good price but less than 2 weeks ago. Or you think he is guilty and try to get a decent price as his price can go lower. I think a lot are in this category by the prices I am seeing. Someone might come out way ahead but this could be Josh Gordon again. Where is his value now after being astronomical a few years ago.
I don’t own Hill and have never been a huge fan as too many low games with the huge games but would want bargain basement price to have on my team. All about risk aversion now on Hill. I wonder what Hank and Meno would pay. I think both look like astute owners who if they think, Hill won’t be greatly affected would still try to get for less than 2 weeks ago. Take advantage of the situation. I find it highly unlikely that many would pay top 5 WR price today. Certainly not seeing it in the trade thread
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
They have been discussing his value should nothing come to pass (exonerated) - both would admit that right now with the risk involved his value has taken a hit.
Milkman
Footballguy
His past behavior substantiates this story to a degree. Coupled with all the whispers about his anger problems. I'd say he's a decent underdog to get out of all this.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I think the hammer drops soon on him. My only hesitation on that feeling is I would think the Chiefs would have been a little more aggressive in signing someone at the wide receiver position by now.
Similar threads
