bostonfred
Footballguy
It was the beginning of sequence of events for obj that led to him being traded for a seemingly below market value deal.And do you think that hurts his value today?
It was the beginning of sequence of events for obj that led to him being traded for a seemingly below market value deal.And do you think that hurts his value today?
I'll keep it simple and define total vindication so no grey area.It's already been explained numerous times that nobody is ever totally vindicated once accusations like this are made.
So wrong. If that was an issue they'd not have resigned him.It was the beginning of sequence of events for obj that led to him being traded for a seemingly below market value deal.
My personal opinion is even if all of that happens, you are still going to have people in dynasty leagues that are tainted by this situation and are not willing to pay as much for him going forward as they would have been a month ago. Maybe 2-3 years down the line if he's still putting up top WR numbers his value gets back to where it was a month ago, but it's going to take a while IMHO.I'll keep it simple and define total vindication so no grey area.
No charges filed. Child Protection services comes back with no findings indicating he did anything. NFL will investigate no matter what at this point and they choose to not suspend after they investigate. That's what I mean.
That makes no sense in the context of what is being discussed here. We aren't talking about the perception NFL teams have of a player's value - we are talking about a player's fantasy football value. Obviously there is some correlation, but you are conflating two different concepts.So wrong. If that was an issue they'd not have resigned him.
I’d suggest not insulting the intelligence of others in the future.So wrong. If that was an issue they'd not have resigned him.
You might want to double check the message I was responding to.That makes no sense in the context of what is being discussed here. We aren't talking about the perception NFL teams have of a player's value - we are talking about a player's fantasy football value. Obviously there is some correlation, but you are conflating two different concepts.
I did. You are still confused.You might want to double check the message I was responding to.
If Hill didn’t break his arm who did? I haven’t been keeping up with all the details.My personal opinion is even if all of that happens, you are still going to have people in dynasty leagues that are tainted by this situation and are not willing to pay as much for him going forward as they would have been a month ago. Maybe 2-3 years down the line if he's still putting up top WR numbers his value gets back to where it was a month ago, but it's going to take a while IMHO.
He fell from monkey barsIf Hill didn’t break his arm who did? I haven’t been keeping up with all the details.
What part of my reply saying that it had nothing to do with him being traded still confuses you?I did. You are still confused.
A chain of events that includes a player being traded to another team could impact a player's fantasy value, even if his real life NFL value was unaffected.
could be marquis brown, who could very well be a round 1 target for KC of they have to move on from tyreek...I have someone dangling 1.3 out there for him from me and it's getting harder and harder to resist. Sometimes I want to say, grab it and run before he's worth nothing. On the other hand, it's almost guaranteed that the 1.3 will never be a Tyreek Hill and is even a good chance will be a complete bust.
I agree that it isn't super compelling when nobody can offer an example. And you are right - Elliott's value at this point doesn't seem remotely harmed by his past incident.What a tired argument. No one can cite an actual example. I guess if the argument has turned into one person out there in some league somewhere is going to devalue Hill then ok whatever.
I'd even bring up Elliot and he actually got suspended.
I don't play IDP, did not play dynasty in 2000 so a lot I'm not familiar with here to compare or offer any other reasons why he fell but based on what you are showing me here but seems like a pretty good example to me.I don't think his request is all that ridiculous.
Ray Lewis was involved in an investigation where a buddy took the blame for him killing a guy.
According to MFG in 2000 his ADP was pick 41.13
The following year, after winning superbowl mvp, his ADP was 56.83. weird...
Your turn
This is literally exactly what happened to obj. Do you seriously not notice the difference in media coverage between his second year in the league and now? Do you not see any correlation at all between that change and him being on a new team?He will be under intense scrutiny from the media and fans and right or wrong there will be people who believe he is guilty and mess with him. Media coverage will be unflattering. His teammates will be asked a million questions about his temperament. Any sideline blow up or complaining will be overanalyzed to death.
I just cited two guys whose value changed this offseason after being "totally exonerated" and you decided they aren't "actual examples".What a tired argument. No one can cite an actual example.
I last checked about an hour ago and heard nothing. You've been uncovering a few twitter gems so you probably already found some of the stuff I did. A writer for the KC Star who contributed for the story did a radio interview and said he thinks he will be charged. Did not say that means he thinks he is guilty or will be found guilty but he thinks he is going to be charged and you can tell he has more info than he has shared so it's pretty concerning. I'm guessing you already knew that since that was hours ago.So any new news? Last thing I see is that he’s being investigated for two separate incidents now.
Don't really see those examples as valid and don't need you to give me message board instructions either.I just cited two guys whose value changed this offseason after being "totally exonerated" and you decided they aren't "actual examples".
I did see that. There’s been a couple guys who seem to insinuate that there’s more that’s not known. I don’t know if they’re trying to make themselves relevant or if there really is.I last checked about an hour ago and heard nothing. You've been uncovering a few twitter gems so you probably already found some of the stuff I did. A writer for the KC Star who contributed for the story did a radio interview and said he thinks he will be charged. Did not say that means he thinks he is guilty or will be found guilty but he thinks he is going to be charged and you can tell he has more info than he has shared so it's pretty concerning. I'm guessing you already knew that since that was hours ago.
It's so easy to be a "reporter" and say you think he will be charged because "there is so much more not being reported"... there are practically no consequences for being wrong on that. it's what today's "reporters" do. Just make up a source if you dont have one.I did see that. There’s been a couple guys who seem to insinuate that there’s more that’s not known. I don’t know if they’re trying to make themselves relevant or if there really is.
I did see that. There’s been a couple guys who seem to insinuate that there’s more that’s not known. I don’t know if they’re trying to make themselves relevant or if there really is.
So if it turns out the boy broke his arm playing and it was a neighbor that called in the reports that still means he is in an unstable family situation? Not sure I follow that line of logic and that in an nutshell is why people can't see clear to how his value will be if this turns out to be nothing.If he is totally innocent then he is apparently in an unstable family situation where things can go south at any time.
The only logic that needs to be followed is that people are saying they wont value him the same. That is all that actually mattersSo if it turns out the boy broke his arm playing and it was a neighbor that called in the reports that still means he is in an unstable family situation? Not sure I follow that line of logic and that in an nutshell is why people can't see clear to how his value will be if this turns out to be nothing.
I've said all I can say on this subject and will let it rest. I only hope we get a chance to see how this turns out for his value if this does in fact turn out to be nothing but I'm pretty pessimistic on that outcome.
This is exactly right. Value of any player is the price others are willing to pay for that playerThe only logic that needs to be followed is that people are saying they wont value him the same. That is all that actually matters
You need to step back into the real world.What a tired argument. No one can cite an actual example. I guess if the argument has turned into one person out there in some league somewhere is going to devalue Hill then ok whatever.
I'd even bring up Elliot and he actually got suspended. It's extremely hard for me to look at his current dynasty value in my leagues or in ADP data and conclude he has lost any value. But again I guess if we are going to play the someone out there somewhere in some league that just might devalue him so be it. You all win. Whatever.
...but what if he's, you know, totally vindicated?I'm thinking KC is putting that record breaking contract in the trash, no matter what the outcome.
Agreed.What a tired argument.
I went to school with a girl who broke both her arms falling from the monkey bars.He fell from monkey bars
Year and a half if this situation turns out this way IMO. People will be wary of TMZ finding something and putting it out there like Hunt who seemed in the clear until the video got out. You know they have got their dogs on this right now trying to get whatever they can. Once he’s thrown up stupid numbers with Mahomes again, many will forget. The last of those holding out will want to see him get thru another offseason with no bad news and see if the Chiefs give him the big extension.My personal opinion is even if all of that happens, you are still going to have people in dynasty leagues that are tainted by this situation and are not willing to pay as much for him going forward as they would have been a month ago. Maybe 2-3 years down the line if he's still putting up top WR numbers his value gets back to where it was a month ago, but it's going to take a while IMHO.
You have multiple fantasy football players here informing you that this has affected his value.Not sure I follow that line of logic and that in an nutshell is why people can't see clear to how his value will be if this turns out to be nothing.
Care to share a list of guys that have been accused but there were no charges and no suspension? It's a very small list. Which gives credence to the possibility that charges or a suspension will follow here.Can anyone give me the name of a player in the NFL who was accused of something but no charges were filed and the NFL did not suspend them and that player lost dynasty value over the accusation? Just name me one player not charged or suspended who lost value due toan accusation which was shown to have no merit. Just one people. Come on, I'm sure you can all put your minds together and come up with one can't you.
And you need to step off your pedestal. Some people won't drop his value if this all remains unsubstantiated. I am one of those people along with Meno. He hasn't even been accused with any credibility. He hasn't been charged. He's being investigated. That's it. If I called your local PD and told them I thought you were abusing some child or elderly person or whatever they would investigate that too. It doesn't mean anything yet. I hope nothing comes of this but people do drop his value anyway. I will happily take him at a discount.You need to step back into the real world.
A guy who admitted to beating his pregnant wife and now has been accused of breaking his child’s arm. You think he’ll be a first round dynasty pick next year? I don’t believe you actually think that. Time to quit trolling. There’s no way that happens unless there’s video proof of him not doing it.
In this situation. You either believe or disbelieve the story.And you need to step off your pedestal. Some people won't drop his value if this all remains unsubstantiated. I am one of those people along with Meno. He hasn't even been accused with any credibility. He hasn't been charged. He's being investigated. That's it. If I called your local PD and told them I thought you were abusing some child or elderly person or whatever they would investigate that too. It doesn't mean anything yet. I hope nothing comes of this but people do drop his value anyway. I will happily take him at a discount.
Obviously if something does come out, like real evidence of some kind, or the NFL takes action on their own, then of course that changes things. But most rational people won't just automatically drop a guy's value when there's nothing to substantiate the story.
They have been discussing his value should nothing come to pass (exonerated) - both would admit that right now with the risk involved his value has taken a hit.I wonder what Hank and Meno would pay.
His past behavior substantiates this story to a degree. Coupled with all the whispers about his anger problems. I'd say he's a decent underdog to get out of all this.But most rational people won't just automatically drop a guy's value when there's nothing to substantiate the story.