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☞ Official SOPRANOS Thread (6 Viewers)

'Raider Nation said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'Raider Nation said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
Omar!
Click to expand...
You just noticed this, or are you watching the series for the first time?
Click to expand...
I don't think I've seen this episode since it originally aired.
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He should have pointed out how foolish it was for Jackie to take a stroll in the projects when there's a hit out on him.
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I assume he's who tipped them off. With the locks on his door he was into the game.
 
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'Raider Nation said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'Raider Nation said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
Omar!
Click to expand...
You just noticed this, or are you watching the series for the first time?
Click to expand...
I don't think I've seen this episode since it originally aired.
Click to expand...
He should have pointed out how foolish it was for Jackie to take a stroll in the projects when there's a hit out on him.
Click to expand...
I assume he's who tipped them off. With the locks on his door he was into the game.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, never thought much about it. Syl knew immediately that Jackie was in Boonton. It really could have been anyone.
 
Here's the thing I don't get after the past two episodes. What was all the talk about Ralphie giving Jackie a pass?....Was that just lip service (which kind of doesn't make sense as it was only between Ralphie and Tony) or was it some kind of "power struggle" thing between the two that just :whoosh: over my head? Please help.

 
'Raider Nation said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'Raider Nation said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'Raider Nation said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
Omar!
Click to expand...
You just noticed this, or are you watching the series for the first time?
Click to expand...
I don't think I've seen this episode since it originally aired.
Click to expand...
He should have pointed out how foolish it was for Jackie to take a stroll in the projects when there's a hit out on him.
Click to expand...
I assume he's who tipped them off. With the locks on his door he was into the game.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, never thought much about it. Syl knew immediately that Jackie was in Boonton. It really could have been anyone.
Click to expand...
I think he knew because Omar told him. Jackie and his "crew" were a bunch of idiots and would be totally ignorant as to who syl etc were connected with.
 
'Thunderlips said:
Here's the thing I don't get after the past two episodes. What was all the talk about Ralphie giving Jackie a pass?....Was that just lip service (which kind of doesn't make sense as it was only between Ralphie and Tony) or was it some kind of "power struggle" thing between the two that just :whoosh: over my head? Please help.
Click to expand...
A little weird to me as well. I think tony didn't want the guilt of making the decision to kill him and wanted to avoid looking weak as well. So instead either ralphie looks weak for not wacking him for robbing his game or he kills his woman's son and gets the guilt. The problem, howver, is ralphie is a total sociopath who had no feelings for Ro or Jackie really.
 
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'Thunderlips said:
Here's the thing I don't get after the past two episodes. What was all the talk about Ralphie giving Jackie a pass?....Was that just lip service (which kind of doesn't make sense as it was only between Ralphie and Tony) or was it some kind of "power struggle" thing between the two that just :whoosh: over my head? Please help.
Click to expand...
A little weird to me as well. I think tony didn't want the guilt of making the decision to kill him and wanted to avoid looking weak as well. So instead either ralphie looks weak for not wacking him for robbing his game or he kills his woman's son and gets the guilt. The problem, howver, is ralphie is a total sociopath who had no feelings for Ro or Jackie really.
Click to expand...
there is also something in Tony's tone in that scene. He is almost mocking Ralphie for getting into the situation he is in.
 
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'Thunderlips said:
Here's the thing I don't get after the past two episodes. What was all the talk about Ralphie giving Jackie a pass?....Was that just lip service (which kind of doesn't make sense as it was only between Ralphie and Tony) or was it some kind of "power struggle" thing between the two that just :whoosh: over my head? Please help.
Click to expand...
A little weird to me as well. I think tony didn't want the guilt of making the decision to kill him and wanted to avoid looking weak as well. So instead either ralphie looks weak for not wacking him for robbing his game or he kills his woman's son and gets the guilt. The problem, howver, is ralphie is a total sociopath who had no feelings for Ro or Jackie really.
Click to expand...
I would agree that it is mostly about Tony trying to abdicate responsibility. Similar to the Vito thing. Plus his panic attacks. A lot of the show is about him dealing with all this responsibility that maybe he never really wanted (or at least couldn't totally deal with).
 
"And who gives a #### what people say behind your back that they don't have the balls to say to your face." One of the best lines Tony Soprano ever uttered.

 
Here's the thing I don't get after the past two episodes. What was all the talk about Ralphie giving Jackie a pass?....Was that just lip service (which kind of doesn't make sense as it was only between Ralphie and Tony) or was it some kind of "power struggle" thing between the two that just :whoosh: over my head? Please help.
Click to expand...
A little weird to me as well. I think tony didn't want the guilt of making the decision to kill him and wanted to avoid looking weak as well. So instead either ralphie looks weak for not wacking him for robbing his game or he kills his woman's son and gets the guilt. The problem, howver, is ralphie is a total sociopath who had no feelings for Ro or Jackie really.
Click to expand...
I think while Tony may have struggled with the thought initially, in the end he wanted JJ dead....so he manipulated Ralpie to kill him, while using a front that he would understand either way.
 
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'gump said:
Here's the thing I don't get after the past two episodes. What was all the talk about Ralphie giving Jackie a pass?....Was that just lip service (which kind of doesn't make sense as it was only between Ralphie and Tony) or was it some kind of "power struggle" thing between the two that just :whoosh: over my head? Please help.
Click to expand...
A little weird to me as well. I think tony didn't want the guilt of making the decision to kill him and wanted to avoid looking weak as well. So instead either ralphie looks weak for not wacking him for robbing his game or he kills his woman's son and gets the guilt. The problem, howver, is ralphie is a total sociopath who had no feelings for Ro or Jackie really.
Click to expand...
I think while Tony may have struggled with the thought initially, in the end he wanted JJ dead....so he manipulated Ralpie to kill him, while using a front that he would understand either way.
Click to expand...
I agree that by the end it seemed Tony was manipulating Ralphie in such a way as to eliminate Jackie.
 
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'gump said:
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
'Thunderlips said:
Here's the thing I don't get after the past two episodes. What was all the talk about Ralphie giving Jackie a pass?....Was that just lip service (which kind of doesn't make sense as it was only between Ralphie and Tony) or was it some kind of "power struggle" thing between the two that just :whoosh: over my head? Please help.
Click to expand...
A little weird to me as well. I think tony didn't want the guilt of making the decision to kill him and wanted to avoid looking weak as well. So instead either ralphie looks weak for not wacking him for robbing his game or he kills his woman's son and gets the guilt. The problem, howver, is ralphie is a total sociopath who had no feelings for Ro or Jackie really.
Click to expand...
I think while Tony may have struggled with the thought initially, in the end he wanted JJ dead....so he manipulated Ralpie to kill him, while using a front that he would understand either way.
Click to expand...
I agree that by the end it seemed Tony was manipulating Ralphie in such a way as to eliminate Jackie.
Click to expand...
There's so much going on with Tony and Ralphie's conversations about Jackie. Ultimately, it seems clear that Tony is using the Jackie incident to fill Ralhpie with doubt and to show him as being weak.
 
'Thunderlips said:
Here's the thing I don't get after the past two episodes. What was all the talk about Ralphie giving Jackie a pass?....Was that just lip service (which kind of doesn't make sense as it was only between Ralphie and Tony) or was it some kind of "power struggle" thing between the two that just :whoosh: over my head? Please help.
Click to expand...
My take is Tony is playing to Ralphie's ego. Obviously Ralphie doesn't care about JJ or what JJ did. Ralphie only cares about showing the other guys he has the power to spare a guy who robbed/shot other guys in the crew. The added bonus for Ralphie comes from showing JJ that like JJ's dad, he's also a powerful guy. Tony knows Ralphie deciding to give JJ a pass won't sit well with anyone and could very well mean the end of Ralph. Tony likes the $$ Ralph brings in but otherwise detests him. Tony doesn't give a #### about JJ either. For Tony, the morsel of caring about JJ because he was Jackie's kid went out the window the second he screwed it up on the Meadow front. Both Tony and Ralphie only care about how they can use the JJ situation to get what they want (Ralphie: being perceived as powerful/Tony: making things miserable for Ralphie).ETA: Ralphie eventually realizes that his ego trip is a pipe dream and has JJ killed. Tony continues to use JJ even after his death. Immediately using the death as a parenting tool for AJ ("You see?") and even in the funeral parlor with Paulie to get him off his back. Tony's immediate reaction to hearing JJ's been killed can be seen as shock that JJ is dead but I say it was more he was shocked that Ralphie had the brains to see that was a no-win situation along with the lack of compassion it took to kill his GF's kid. Tony uses everyone and everyone is always unwitting being used by Tony but not Ralphie. Another reason in a long list of reasons Tony despises him and probably fears him. You also see Johnny Sac working Paulie in another scene there. It's all about the users and the people they use. Even Carmela uses JJ's death as a tool against Meadow which Meadow immediately calls BS on. Great stuff.
 
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I think part of the issue between Tony and Ralphie with the JJ issue was that Tony never wanted to make Ralphie the captain of the crew, but he was forced into doing it. He hated listening to Ralphie ##### and moan for so long about wanting to be captain and being passed over, so once he had to make Ralphie the captain he enjoyed putting Ralphie in a no-win situation. I think Tony really enjoyed forcing Ralphie to make the decision on how to handle JJ while Ralphie kept trying to defer the decision to Tony.

 
I'm late to the party on the last page here, but re: the Tony/Ralphie/JJ dynamic, it was clear to me that Tony did not want to have to plainly verbalize the order to whack his best friend's kid, whom he vowed to look after when Jackie, Sr. got sick. Instead, he manipulated Ralph into "making the decision" on his own. Remember, Tony tells him [paraphrasing] "Whatever happens, Ralph... whatever happens... you cannot blame yourself."

Why would Ralphie feel he's BLAME-worthy for sparing the kid's life? (Answering to the guys who got shot is another matter).

He would only feel that particular emotion after ordering his death. Tony clearly told Ralph to kill Jackie Jr. without actually saying it.

 
'Raider Nation said:
I'm late to the party on the last page here, but re: the Tony/Ralphie/JJ dynamic, it was clear to me that Tony did not want to have to plainly verbalize the order to whack his best friend's kid, whom he vowed to look after when Jackie, Sr. got sick. Instead, he manipulated Ralph into "making the decision" on his own. Remember, Tony tells him [paraphrasing] "Whatever happens, Ralph... whatever happens... you cannot blame yourself."

Why would Ralphie feel he's BLAME-worthy for sparing the kid's life? (Answering to the guys who got shot is another matter).

He would only feel that particular emotion after ordering his death. Tony clearly told Ralph to kill Jackie Jr. without actually saying it.
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Well he also said that ralphie took Jackie under his wing and schooled him best he could. So he could be blaming himself for Jackie doing something idiotic causing people to get shot and bringing things to this point regardless if what decision was made.
 
Amy memory is failing me on some of these episodes I haven't seen in years.Did we determine at some point that the cop Chrissie killed was his dads killer, or did Tony just need him out of the way and also wanted to push Chris.

 
'gump said:
Did we determine at some point that the cop Chrissie killed was his dads killer, or did Tony just need him out of the way and also wanted to push Chris.
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He did it. The look on the cop's face when Chris identifies himself is telling, and then when we get the wide shot of the house as Chris is about to gun him down, you can hear the cop yell, "I'm sorry!"
 
'Ghost Rider said:
'gump said:
Did we determine at some point that the cop Chrissie killed was his dads killer, or did Tony just need him out of the way and also wanted to push Chris.
Click to expand...
He did it. The look on the cop's face when Chris identifies himself is telling, and then when we get the wide shot of the house as Chris is about to gun him down, you can hear the cop yell, "I'm sorry!"
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:goodposting: T was being honest. Haydu outlived his usefulness the minute he retired.
 
So not only is the Columbus episode bad because of the Columbus crap, but we also get ralphie taking it up the ### AND the start of furio and carm being interested in each other.

 
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