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ESPN 30 for 30 (1 Viewer)

Doctor Detroit said:
mr roboto said:
This is really hard to believe. But watch some of those shows on CNBC or whatever (American Greed or something) and find out that these kinds of scams (not to this level) happen more than you think.
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I watch that show quite a bit, but never seen anything at this level. This is a North American Professional Sports franchise!!! :lmao:
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Agreed. But the sheer gall that Spano displayed and the complete lack of due diligence exhibited by NHL and the other owner are the hallmark of many scams.
 
Doctor Detroit said:
wazoo11 said:
Why was fleet bank was so persistent to give that loan away?
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The thing is, had he #### the $17 million first payment, it might have been a good loan. I mean it sounds like the guy might have blown it on cocaine and whores, but he might have actually paid them back.
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By the sound of it if he was able to come up with the $17M he could have sold the team a year later and pocketed $30M.

 
The Ref said:
Doctor Detroit said:
wazoo11 said:
Why was fleet bank was so persistent to give that loan away?
Click to expand...
The thing is, had he #### the $17 million first payment, it might have been a good loan. I mean it sounds like the guy might have blown it on cocaine and whores, but he might have actually paid them back.
Click to expand...
By the sound of it if he was able to come up with the $17M he could have sold the team a year later and pocketed $30M.
Click to expand...
Seems to me, and maybe I'm wrong, that he could have pulled this off with a little more due diligence. He knew Roger Staubach and people like that, I don't see how hard it would be at the point he was at to get five to ten people to take a part ownership. Then you roll that cable contract, concessions and ticket sales into subsequent payments. Dunno, I think he was damn close to at leat dragging it out a few years.

 
Grew up on Long Island. Been an Isles fan for... well, far, far too long. Not going to profess to be as rabid about them as the Giants or Mets, but there was no team that represented the blue collar glory days of Strong Island more than the Isles. Gilles and Clark and Co. would frequent the Diner I grew up going to. Nystrom runs in the same circles as my (no longer blue collar) parents - and is just a really solid guy.

Happened to be on the West Coast today with my boss, about 30 years my elder, grabbing a couple drinks across from the hotel. Low and behold, I see this thing start at the bar one a few of the many TVs and realize its not a promo - its on. So we get closed captioned, and were literally mesmerized by the next hour. Growing up in this era, and then watching this debacle of a debacle's debacle while in San Fukcindeno, CA was especially poignent.

My boss knew a bunch of the (older) guys who were interviewed / mentioned. Owner of the Garden City Hotel. Rosenberg, a few others. I just remember reading Newsday, before the internet became the realm of truth, and watching this once valiant ship go down in flames.

A sadly perfect ending, I might add.

 
I'd say this would never happen again but the Devils situation was not dissimilar. Vanderbeek is legitimately wealthy but basically when his partners wanted to buy him out he didn't have enough $. He played kick the can trying to shore up financing for 2+ years before the NHL finally said enough - thankfully they found a billionaire to buy the team but in a lot of ways it's not clear they really learned their lesson.

-QG

 
Doctor Detroit said:
The Ref said:
Doctor Detroit said:
wazoo11 said:
Why was fleet bank was so persistent to give that loan away?
Click to expand...
The thing is, had he #### the $17 million first payment, it might have been a good loan. I mean it sounds like the guy might have blown it on cocaine and whores, but he might have actually paid them back.
Click to expand...
By the sound of it if he was able to come up with the $17M he could have sold the team a year later and pocketed $30M.
Click to expand...
Seems to me, and maybe I'm wrong, that he could have pulled this off with a little more due diligence. He knew Roger Staubach and people like that, I don't see how hard it would be at the point he was at to get five to ten people to take a part ownership. Then you roll that cable contract, concessions and ticket sales into subsequent payments. Dunno, I think he was damn close to at leat dragging it out a few years.
Click to expand...
But here is the real kick in the pants. Lets say he does manage to sell off/beg/borrow/steal $17M and he makes the first payment. If he pulls that off there is nothing anyone can say. The deal is closed lock stock and barrel. Now a year passes and now what? Even if he doesn't come up with the next $17M whats the NHL going to say then? They dont want to hear it and they certainly dont want a public circus. I mean the old owner would be pissed and no doubt there would be a lawsuit about the 4X$17M still left. But it's not like anyone can take the team away at that point.

My guess is if he does come up with the first $17M he finds a way to come up with the $17M each year. Even if he has to sell off parts of the team and he is only left with 20%.... thats not bad for nothing.

 
The Ref said:
Doctor Detroit said:
The Ref said:
Doctor Detroit said:
wazoo11 said:
Why was fleet bank was so persistent to give that loan away?
Click to expand...
The thing is, had he #### the $17 million first payment, it might have been a good loan. I mean it sounds like the guy might have blown it on cocaine and whores, but he might have actually paid them back.
Click to expand...
By the sound of it if he was able to come up with the $17M he could have sold the team a year later and pocketed $30M.
Click to expand...
Seems to me, and maybe I'm wrong, that he could have pulled this off with a little more due diligence. He knew Roger Staubach and people like that, I don't see how hard it would be at the point he was at to get five to ten people to take a part ownership. Then you roll that cable contract, concessions and ticket sales into subsequent payments. Dunno, I think he was damn close to at leat dragging it out a few years.
Click to expand...
But here is the real kick in the pants. Lets say he does manage to sell off/beg/borrow/steal $17M and he makes the first payment. If he pulls that off there is nothing anyone can say. The deal is closed lock stock and barrel. Now a year passes and now what? Even if he doesn't come up with the next $17M whats the NHL going to say then? They dont want to hear it and they certainly dont want a public circus. I mean the old owner would be pissed and no doubt there would be a lawsuit about the 4X$17M still left. But it's not like anyone can take the team away at that point.
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting that there's a scenario that this guy could have paid $17M of a $85M deal and still keep the team?

That seems very, very unlikely. The NHL would have several remedies, even if none of them would be a public relations coup.

 
Amazing that we're watching one of the last years when tennis was a primo sport. There's been no one to come along on the US side and match Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi. It was also around this time when boxing started to really fade, too.

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
Raider Nation said:
Anyone else watching this? It's very interesting.
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It was very good, Connors is a weird dude. He has a new book where he outs Chrissy Evert for having an abortion when they were dating. Guy didn't even have the courtesy of discussing it with her ahead of time.
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I believe the word you meant to use there was a*****e.

Great documentary. Connors really was and probably still is a horse's a** but he was a terrific player and that 91 US Open was one of the greatest of all time because of his run.

 
Not sure what I thought about the fact that Krickstein has never talked to Connors since the loss in 1991. Makes you wonder how much of "friends" they really were because nobody is that much of a #####.

I think what best describes him was when said "People say I am still an ##### but I am a happy #####" :lol:

 
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I nearly fell out of my seat when they said Connors and Krickstein haven't spoken since that match. How do you go from being friends to never speaking again after sharing something that epic?

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
The Ref said:
Doctor Detroit said:
The Ref said:
Doctor Detroit said:
wazoo11 said:
Why was fleet bank was so persistent to give that loan away?
Click to expand...
The thing is, had he #### the $17 million first payment, it might have been a good loan. I mean it sounds like the guy might have blown it on cocaine and whores, but he might have actually paid them back.
Click to expand...
By the sound of it if he was able to come up with the $17M he could have sold the team a year later and pocketed $30M.
Click to expand...
Seems to me, and maybe I'm wrong, that he could have pulled this off with a little more due diligence. He knew Roger Staubach and people like that, I don't see how hard it would be at the point he was at to get five to ten people to take a part ownership. Then you roll that cable contract, concessions and ticket sales into subsequent payments. Dunno, I think he was damn close to at leat dragging it out a few years.
Click to expand...
But here is the real kick in the pants. Lets say he does manage to sell off/beg/borrow/steal $17M and he makes the first payment. If he pulls that off there is nothing anyone can say. The deal is closed lock stock and barrel. Now a year passes and now what? Even if he doesn't come up with the next $17M whats the NHL going to say then? They dont want to hear it and they certainly dont want a public circus. I mean the old owner would be pissed and no doubt there would be a lawsuit about the 4X$17M still left. But it's not like anyone can take the team away at that point.
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting that there's a scenario that this guy could have paid $17M of a $85M deal and still keep the team?

That seems very, very unlikely. The NHL would have several remedies, even if none of them would be a public relations coup.
Click to expand...
No no no.... it was a 165M deal. $80M up front from the bank and a series of 5 annual $17M payments.

If he comes up with the first $17M it buys him a year. With that year he collects the gate and ad money. He can let some expensive players go. He starts to get the benefits from the new cable deal he signed. He may have been able to push for a new stadium and attached some liquidity financing to it. It gives him 1 more year for a major sports franchise to come up with $17M a year later. That is doable.

And as history shows.... even if he couldn't come up with the second $17M payment a year later he could have sold the team for $190M and walked away with $25M in his pocket.

 
wdcrob said:
I nearly fell out of my seat when they said Connors and Krickstein haven't spoken since that match. How do you go from being friends to never speaking again after sharing something that epic?
Click to expand...
Connors' response was ridiculous. He was like "People want me to apologize (to Krickstein)." Nobody expects that. They just think it's rather odd that you wouldn't talk to someone who you used to be friends with. Makes you look like a rather gigantic d**k.

 
Is the promotion of these 30 for 30's not what they were to start? I keep on missing these. Is their a set night/time that they always run? They don't seem to run them over and over like they did. They are easy to miss. I run through the guide and I get Olberman over and over. Annoying.

 
I still don't understand why Connors hasn't spoken to Krickstein since that match in '91, since they seemed to have a pretty good relationship before the match. Was/is Connors that pissed that Krickstein got the chair umpire to call that shot down the line (across the court from the chair umpire) out, on an overrule of the linesman? If so, get over it, guy. That, and the ensuing verbal beatdown of the chair umpire, was what changed the momentum in that match in Connors' favor.

Obviously, for most of his career Connors was looked at as a d-bag, but I figured maybe he had changed as more fans came to embrace him in the twilight of his career. Boy, was I wrong. He still is, and will likely always be, a total jag.

Krickstein came off as a very likeable guy, I thought. For some reason, back in the day I thought he was a spoiled, entitled crybaby. I can't believe he's a club pro at a country club these days.

 
Daywalker said:
Is the promotion of these 30 for 30's not what they were to start? I keep on missing these. Is their a set night/time that they always run? They don't seem to run them over and over like they did. They are easy to miss. I run through the guide and I get Olberman over and over. Annoying.
Click to expand...
Agreed wholeheartedly.

 
Thought last nights was great. My parents were big tennis fans growing up so we watched a lot of tennis. I remember watching Connors run with my family that year and going crazy.

I thought Connors came off as a likeable d-bag until the end when we found out he hasn't talked to Krickstein since that match. Turns him into a real d-bag.

 
I think I'm going to buy a stage wig, beard, and ironic tee shirt collection and jstart appearing as Chuck Klosterman to make superficial sports/rock music comparisons on television

"Sugar Ray Leonard was like Peabo Bryson and Hagler was like Teddy Pendergrass."

 
lumpy19 said:
I thought Connors came off as a likeable d-bag until the end when we found out he hasn't talked to Krickstein since that match. Turns him into a real d-bag.
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Exactly what I thought. You don't have to apologize to the guy or even reach out to pick him up after you beat him. Just go about life like a normal human being.

The thing I remember most about the match was the incredible emotion. I'd just decided not to go back for my second year of grad school (v1.0), broken up with a long-term GF and had been down for a few months -- just sort of struggling to get my feet under me. Connors win was the first thing I'd gotten excited about in awhile and it sort of broke the spell.

 
Raider Nation said:
packersfan said:
JZilla said:
Klosterman and the radio guy did me in quickly here.
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Is that guy famous on the East Coast or something? My God he was brutal to listen to.
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Ferrall is a legend, folks.

Embrace it.
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Something about New Yorkers, they still love their radio guys extra schticky

The general assclownery happening in the interviews reminded me more of a VH1 special than a legit 30 for 30. Where was Michael Ian Black?

 
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JZilla said:
Raider Nation said:
packersfan said:
JZilla said:
Klosterman and the radio guy did me in quickly here.
Click to expand...
Is that guy famous on the East Coast or something? My God he was brutal to listen to.
Click to expand...
Ferrall is a legend, folks.

Embrace it.
Click to expand...
Something about New Yorkers, they still love their radio guys extra schticky

The general assclownery happening in the interviews reminded me more of a VH1 special than a legit 30 for 30. Where was Michael Ian Black?
Click to expand...
Yeah. I hate sports talk radio, but at least I understand the reasoning behind including Farrell and Mad Dog. But Richard Schickel? Klosterman? OK, Schickel was in New York. Pretty sure Klosterman was either still in college or in Fargo during that run (I know I was in college and Klosterman is my age).

I didn't hate the show, but I think a more interesting documentary would have switched roles and focused more on Krickstein. We all knew Connors was a notorious ****. What's it like to be the guy on the brink who never broke through? To be best known for someone else's triumph? Krickstein was the more interesting story to me.

 
Raider Nation said:
packersfan said:
JZilla said:
Klosterman and the radio guy did me in quickly here.
Click to expand...
Is that guy famous on the East Coast or something? My God he was brutal to listen to.
Click to expand...
Ferrall is a legend, folks.

Embrace it.
Click to expand...
I used to call into his show on KNBR all the time. I think I even made it onto his Bay Area TV show while he was shooting in the Upper Haight, being a "man on the street" interview. He remembered that when I called in a few weeks later.

Ferrall is da man. Loved his show. Most of the KNBR hosts hated him. They hated JT the Brick even more though.

 
Most people think Scotty's voice is shtick. The guy can't help the way he talks. And he tells it like it is with very little BS.

JT THE GIANTS FAN is a knob. Total shame that fraud represents "Raider Nation" on the sidelines. :rolleyes:

 
Raider Nation said:
Most people think Scotty's voice is shtick. The guy can't help the way he talks. And he tells it like it is with very little BS.

JT THE GIANTS FAN is a knob. Total shame that fraud represents "Raider Nation" on the sidelines. :rolleyes:
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You would had loved when he called himself "The Messiah of the Raider Nation!" on KNBR when Gruden started coaching there.

"Our first caller - RAIDER ROB!"

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I think Raider Rob wound up back in prison.

 
I grew up loving Conners and hating Mac. I've learned to love both, and appreciate the era that taught me tennis. Mac is clearly one of the best ever...and Conners doesn't get the credit he deserves (5 Opens).

 
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Raider Nation said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Raider Nation said:
Most people think Scotty's voice is shtick. The guy can't help the way he talks.
Click to expand...
But he can presumably choose a career other than broadcasting.

Having a voice that isn't actively unpleasant is generally considered to be part of the job.
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You won't believe this but after listening to him for a period of time I don't even notice the voice anymore.
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I believe you.

I'm just pointing out that it's hardly shocking that some people would find the voice to be a turn-off. I didn't like the guy, but as I said, I hate sports talk radio (and most sports journalism in general).

 
Put me in the "I ####### love Scotty Farrell" club. I thought his voice was annoying at first, but after a while, it just becomes a part of the experience.

Besides, I'd rather hear Scotty's voice than Fran Drescher's.

 
I thought it was great. I'm very surprised that Connors believes people think he should apologize to Krickstein for winning... Uh, I don't think anyone thinks that? I'm also surprised that Krickstein never picked up the phone either. Thought it was cool though when he said he'd like to play Connors now after the hip surgeries.. haha.

 
blend said:
I thought it was great. I'm very surprised that Connors believes people think he should apologize to Krickstein for winning... Uh, I don't think anyone thinks that? I'm also surprised that Krickstein never picked up the phone either. Thought it was cool though when he said he'd like to play Connors now after the hip surgeries.. haha.
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Don't be surprised if Jimmy doesn't find a way to pull that one out as well.

 
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