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wadegarrett

**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****

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Farmer said they already have multiple draft boards, so the combine interviews and workouts will should eventually get them to one. Interested to what the real height of Manziel is and the other qb's for that matter.

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I want to think that Farmer making the decisions rather than Banner increases the chance that we keep Mack and/or Ward. Any indication might hope might be true?

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I want to think that Farmer making the decisions rather than Banner increases the chance that we keep Mack and/or Ward. Any indication might hope might be true?

we now have a chance to retain Mack.

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They're undeniably better w/o Lombardi and Banner, but what a freaking mess of an organization.

The Dolphins & Browns are the biggest jokes in the league I can ever remember at any one point in time.

Edited by Craig_MiamiFL

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@RapSheet: On Mike Pettine: Farmer wasnt in the interview, Pettine wasnt his choice. Farmer may have preferred an innovator like Stoops or Malzahn

Will Pettine eventually report to Farmer?

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3 coaches and GMs in 14 months.......................................................

See....you can't have that and expect to build an identity, or even skeleten of an identity when you clean house like that willy nilly. Hit the reset button too many times and you take it all the way back to expansion level. Sure, there's some holdover talent in Cleveland, but the owner has already tried to defend his franchise as not dysfunctional. What other franchise owners have to go out to the press and basically say "we're not clowns!". Haslem already alluded to the fact coaches and players don't view Cleveland as an attractive spot to land. There's been too much damage done over a short time to say the damage is a mere flesh wound.

I agree fully with Gordon Gekko that this is 5 year rebuild, and that's optimistic really. If Haslem keeps Farmer and builds around Pettine and his staff and if they somehow hit if off despite Farmer not being in on the interview of Pettine. If the scouting department can stay in place for a few years and build some rapport with the coaching staff and GM. If Haslem gets his legal affairs in order. If the Browns somehow find a franchise QB, either on the roster, in the draft, or free agency. If Haslem can keep from meddling with the vision of Farmer's plan to operate the franchise. If all that happens, it still takes a good 5 years to get where Browns fans want them to be. Sorry if that's a bucket of ice water. I didn't like the news either when it was explained to me as a Raider fan coming off of back to back 8-8 seasons. We are entering year 3 of what I believe is a 5 year plan. And that might even be optimistic honestly.

This is going to take some time.

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As I said before, the "4-5 years away" things makes no sense. EVERY team in the NFL is a QB and a couple good draft picks away from being a contender. EVERY team. Which means EVERY team is potentially 1-2 years away.

It might seem some teams are 4-5 years away, but think about that. Think of every team you say that about. How many of the current good players on that team will be good players 5 years from now? MAYBE a couple.

As for the Browns, who knows. They could have a QB and be competing in 2015, or keep things as-is and not compete again for like 40 years.

I get the "perception" of the 4-5 years away mentality because we have needs and it takes time to fill those needs since you only get so many draft picks, and young players need time to improve, but that isn't reality. Teams have gone from bad to good basically over night. See Kansas City, and they did it with a pretty mediocre QB. And some teams have gone from great to horrible with one injury, see the Packers.

Another funny thing, people keep saying we have had these problems because of ownership. One owner was totally hands off. This owner seems pretty opposite of that. Same results. I think the biggest problem is that the best GMs won't even dream of coming here. Maybe Ozzie will come hang with us for a few years at the end of his career as a GM, who knows. Maybe we do need another owner change though. Prison could speed that along.

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The browns now are nowhere near as bad of shape as the raiders were three years ago. Leadership, coaching, and poor qb play have doomed us. If this is the right coaching staff and leadership and these guys find the qb we will take off in year two.

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The browns now are nowhere near as bad of shape as the raiders were three years ago. Leadership, coaching, and poor qb play have doomed us. If this is the right coaching staff and leadership and these guys find the qb we will take off in year two.

This argument of "we suck less than you" is pretty silly. You win the boobie prize!.... Happy?

Moving on, your franchise is a dumpster fire as long as your federal indicted owner is still controlling things. Sad, but it is what it is.

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The browns now are nowhere near as bad of shape as the raiders were three years ago. Leadership, coaching, and poor qb play have doomed us. If this is the right coaching staff and leadership and these guys find the qb we will take off in year two.

This argument of "we suck less than you" is pretty silly. You win the boobie prize!.... Happy?

Moving on, your franchise is a dumpster fire as long as your federal indicted owner is still controlling things. Sad, but it is what it is.

He is talking in terms of the actual talent on the team. I dont care how good your owner and coaches are, if you have no talent you can't win. And this team definitely has more talent than the Raiders did, and do.

Unfortunately for all of us, doesn't mean anything until there is a competent QB and coach.

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the good news as i see it is haslam is a new owner, if things go well he may do fine, and if he settles in he may do fine. Jerry Jones is established and has a son who is probably just as dellusional, so there's not much hope in Dallas.

Plus there's always the chance Haslam goes to jail and has to sell the team, i don;t think jerry is going to jail.

Haslam is on the phone right now with Jerry trying to get Tony Romo.

Tony Romo will be a Brown, what do you say now mister?

Then they get Peyton Manning also.

Should I start fitting you for a Browns jersey?

lol

if they get Manning start fitting me for a noose!

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The browns now are nowhere near as bad of shape as the raiders were three years ago. Leadership, coaching, and poor qb play have doomed us. If this is the right coaching staff and leadership and these guys find the qb we will take off in year two.

This argument of "we suck less than you" is pretty silly. You win the boobie prize!.... Happy?

Moving on, your franchise is a dumpster fire as long as your federal indicted owner is still controlling things. Sad, but it is what it is.

He is talking in terms of the actual talent on the team. I dont care how good your owner and coaches are, if you have no talent you can't win. And this team definitely has more talent than the Raiders did, and do.

Unfortunately for all of us, doesn't mean anything until there is a competent QB and coach.

The last part is especially true. No doubt there's more core talent on the Browns than the Raiders. I am not attempting to compare them on that level. But what's really important is organizational stablity. In that regard, I consider the Raiders in better shape going forward than the Browns. And I would not trade your 6 probowlers for your dysnfunctionality at the top of your organization. Talent without leadership goes nowhere.

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Why The Browns Blew Up The Franchise … Again

"To call the Browns a circus would be an insult to circuses." - Peter King

king clearly needs to come here and be educated:

The latest Browns’ shakeup handed the GM job to a man, Ray Farmer, who wasn’t a part of the four-man team interviewing potential head coaches. Farmer also becomes the de facto head of football operations, since Banner won’t be replaced. In the most incredible news of the day, it was announced Farmer had been signed to a four-year contract. If you believe Farmer will be the Browns’ GM for four years, you’ll also believe Haslam’s going to name the downtown stadium after Art Modell.

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The last part is especially true. No doubt there's more core talent on the Browns than the Raiders. I am not attempting to compare them on that level. But what's really important is organizational stablity. In that regard, I consider the Raiders in better shape going forward than the Browns. And I would not trade your 6 probowlers for your dysnfunctionality at the top of your organization. Talent without leadership goes nowhere.

Well, some of our leadership just improved with addition by subtraction.

We'll see you in the AFC championship in 4-5 years........ :nerd:

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Haslam was paired with former Eagles president Banner, who wore out his welcome in Philadelphia after a long tenure with owner Jeffrey Lurie and coach Andy Reid. The headstrong Banner was looking to run a franchise on his own, and Haslam decided to take him on as day-to-day steward. Haslam disputes the commonly held view that his partnership with Banner was an arranged marriage, because he said he interviewed him and chose him; Banner, he said, was forced on him by no one.

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lol

king says Haslam wanted Schiano

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Just curious regarding the Banner being forced on Haslam thing.

How could that even be possible? I don't think it is true, but let's say for sh-its and giggles that it is. HOW does that happen?

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The browns now are nowhere near as bad of shape as the raiders were three years ago. Leadership, coaching, and poor qb play have doomed us. If this is the right coaching staff and leadership and these guys find the qb we will take off in year two.

This argument of "we suck less than you" is pretty silly. You win the boobie prize!.... Happy?

Moving on, your franchise is a dumpster fire as long as your federal indicted owner is still controlling things. Sad, but it is what it is.

wasn't my point, my point was the narrative you drew between the two organizations is wrong.

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Ya know, maybe my homer glasses are on, but I sure see a striking difference between Farmer and Banner. Farmer comes across as a guy that is easy to work with and adaptable. Just listen to some of the things he said (and yes, it was a press conference where the "right" things are usually said). Nothing could be further from the truth about Banner and his style. Wonder if he's still cracking Stooges jokes. I'd also bet Pettine was doing back flips yesterday.

And Farmer was doing exactly what he should have been doing during the interview process, scouting and prepping for the draft. It was said yesterday that he did some background work regarding the candidates and was in constant communication with the interview team. Does anyone really believe Farmer was not directly in Jimmy's ear about what was being said about the Browns during gossip fest week at the Senior Bowl? The best thing that happened was NOT having Farmer with Jimmy/Banner/Lombardi during this process IMO. I could totally see Farmer telling Jimmy he can work with Pettine and straighten this ship.

The Whisenhunt details coming out just puts further proof on what Banner was doing since he's been here and why he needed to go. From the King article:

When Whisenhunt entered the room this year for the interview, he was one of the hottest commodities on the head-coaching market, and the Browns were very interested in him.
Whisenhunt said, “Why didn’t you guys hire me last year?’’
The Browns’ CEO who was in both interviews, Joe Banner, told Whisenhunt he didn’t think the staff he was putting together at the time was “a championship coaching staff.”
Whisenhunt, one NFL source said, was peeved that a man who had never coached and who’d been involved in football mainly on the business side would sit in judgment of his potential coaches.
“Who are you to tell me what makes up a championship coaching staff?” Whisenhunt said, with an edge in his voice.

It's hard to fault Jimmy for not doing this when the Chud decision was made IMO. Piecing together things we've heard/seen, it's Banner and Lombardi saying again we're gonna go out and strike gold...instead they kept striking out, like the year before, and turning more people off in the process. Regardless of who ultimately put the hammer down on Chud, it's a blessing it happened because Banner and Lombardi needed to go. It didn't go down conventionally, but as many keep saying we're better today than we were on Monday...and it's a helluva lot better than having to do this after the draft or during/after next season. I wouldn't necessarily be saying that if somebody other than Farmer was taking the reigns from a personnel standpoint.

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I think them leaving is probably a good ting, like the one article said had it happened with chud it would have been seemed better. This could be a new start that gets them going in the right direction. I am just not willing to say the problems were all Banner and Lombardi, because i have yet to see Haslam make one football decision that has worked out, or that he has stuck with. Let's not give him a pas based on conspiracy theories and conjecture. As King pointed out, Haslam stressed continuity and this organization has had none. That being said Haslam SAYS he has recognized this, he is a new owner and is learning, and if he sees his mistakes and learns there's no reason he cannot be a great owner

This concerns me though:

“In my business career, most of the mistakes I’ve made come from not moving quickly enough when you know there’s a tough decision to be made. The easy thing to do here would be to stay doing what you’re doing, even when you feel like you need to change course.’’

I am not saying that is wrong, I am saying balancing that with knowing the importance of continuity is tricky.

The proof will be in the pudding going forward. Based on what I have seen I expect more quick triggers, but that may not be the case. IF these are the right people and if he gives them time this could all work out for the best and just be remembered as the "crazy first couple of years". Browns fans do have hope here, but i'll deny every saying this if you mention it to anyone! I personally love the factory of sadness and don't ever want it to change :)

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Ya know, maybe my homer glasses are on, but I sure see a striking difference between Farmer and Banner. Farmer comes across as a guy that is easy to work with and adaptable. Just listen to some of the things he said (and yes, it was a press conference where the "right" things are usually said). Nothing could be further from the truth about Banner and his style. Wonder if he's still cracking Stooges jokes. I'd also bet Pettine was doing back flips yesterday.

And Farmer was doing exactly what he should have been doing during the interview process, scouting and prepping for the draft. It was said yesterday that he did some background work regarding the candidates and was in constant communication with the interview team. Does anyone really believe Farmer was not directly in Jimmy's ear about what was being said about the Browns during gossip fest week at the Senior Bowl? The best thing that happened was NOT having Farmer with Jimmy/Banner/Lombardi during this process IMO. I could totally see Farmer telling Jimmy he can work with Pettine and straighten this ship.

The Whisenhunt details coming out just puts further proof on what Banner was doing since he's been here and why he needed to go. From the King article:

When Whisenhunt entered the room this year for the interview, he was one of the hottest commodities on the head-coaching market, and the Browns were very interested in him.
Whisenhunt said, “Why didn’t you guys hire me last year?’’
The Browns’ CEO who was in both interviews, Joe Banner, told Whisenhunt he didn’t think the staff he was putting together at the time was “a championship coaching staff.”
Whisenhunt, one NFL source said, was peeved that a man who had never coached and who’d been involved in football mainly on the business side would sit in judgment of his potential coaches.
“Who are you to tell me what makes up a championship coaching staff?” Whisenhunt said, with an edge in his voice.

It's hard to fault Jimmy for not doing this when the Chud decision was made IMO. Piecing together things we've heard/seen, it's Banner and Lombardi saying again we're gonna go out and strike gold...instead they kept striking out, like the year before, and turning more people off in the process. Regardless of who ultimately put the hammer down on Chud, it's a blessing it happened because Banner and Lombardi needed to go. It didn't go down conventionally, but as many keep saying we're better today than we were on Monday...and it's a helluva lot better than having to do this after the draft or during/after next season. I wouldn't necessarily be saying that if somebody other than Farmer was taking the reigns from a personnel standpoint.

Besides, had you fired them with Chud, you may have ended up with Schiano

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You guys still on the "those guys needed to go, Haslam can control this thing" knowing that Haslam's solution was Schiano?

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The browns now are nowhere near as bad of shape as the raiders were three years ago. Leadership, coaching, and poor qb play have doomed us. If this is the right coaching staff and leadership and these guys find the qb we will take off in year two.

This argument of "we suck less than you" is pretty silly. You win the boobie prize!.... Happy?

Moving on, your franchise is a dumpster fire as long as your federal indicted owner is still controlling things. Sad, but it is what it is.

wasn't my point, my point was the narrative you drew between the two organizations is wrong.

no my point is valid. you are in year one of a five year plan. if you can't see that, you are in denial.

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lol

king says Haslam wanted Schiano

You guys still on the "those guys needed to go, Haslam can control this thing" knowing that Haslam's solution was Schiano?

Did you read the single paragraph of the article that was devoted to Schiano? If so, I'll just say I don't agree with your assessment of it. If not, I'll put it here:

Bill Belichick and Urban Meyer were strong in recommendations for fired Tampa Bay coach Greg Schiano—Belichick called twice—and here’s where I hear there was a major rift in the organization. Banner wanted nothing to do with Schiano. Haslam was intrigued with him after the over-the-top recommendation from Belichick. The group flew to Tampa to interview Schiano, and one source said Banner was cold to Schiano, not participating much in the interview. Banner likely thought Schiano would be a disastrous hire, given all the negatives in recent Cleveland history. He was probably right, but the owner was open to it, and when the owner’s open to it, the man running football operations should at least consider it.

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Haslam was paired with former Eagles president Banner, who wore out his welcome in Philadelphia after a long tenure with owner Jeffrey Lurie and coach Andy Reid. The headstrong Banner was looking to run a franchise on his own, and Haslam decided to take him on as day-to-day steward. Haslam disputes the commonly held view that his partnership with Banner was an arranged marriage, because he said he interviewed him and chose him; Banner, he said, was forced on him by no one.

Commonly held view?

How could a, ahem made-up conspiracy be a commonly held view?

Obviously it had been reported and from many sources for Haslam to come out with a public denial.

It was reported from many sources. Grove from Buffalo heard it. Grossi had said it long ago. Carrucci said it yesterday on the air. And so did Hooley on his program.

Today?

Haslam comes out in front of the story with his version.

Edited by Bracie Smathers

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This X-year plan stuff is silly. If you find a playoff level QB, you become a playoff level team. Period.

Seattle made the leap when they found Wilson.

New Orleans with Brees

Atlanta jumped from #1 pick to playoffs with Ryan

Same with Indy and Luck, and Washington with RGIII.

Dalton's regular season play makes Cinci a playoff caliber team every year

Pitt has been competitive for 10 years because of Ben despite rotating skill guys and an aging defense

Same with the Giants and Eli

and of course Brady in NE

GB didn't drop off after Favre left because they had Rodgers.

Competent coaching helps too, but the greatest coach isn't going to win the Super Bowl with a crap QB. Great QB play makes any coach look like a genius.

If the Browns or Raiders find the right QB, they will compete for a playoff spot this year. If not, see you back in the top 10 next year.

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lol

king says Haslam wanted Schiano

You guys still on the "those guys needed to go, Haslam can control this thing" knowing that Haslam's solution was Schiano?

Did you read the single paragraph of the article that was devoted to Schiano? If so, I'll just say I don't agree with your assessment of it. If not, I'll put it here:

Bill Belichick and Urban Meyer were strong in recommendations for fired Tampa Bay coach Greg Schiano—Belichick called twice—and here’s where I hear there was a major rift in the organization. Banner wanted nothing to do with Schiano. Haslam was intrigued with him after the over-the-top recommendation from Belichick. The group flew to Tampa to interview Schiano, and one source said Banner was cold to Schiano, not participating much in the interview. Banner likely thought Schiano would be a disastrous hire, given all the negatives in recent Cleveland history. He was probably right, but the owner was open to it, and when the owner’s open to it, the man running football operations should at least consider it.

ok

he did not want him, he was intrigued by him (according to this report)

that is still a red flag

Quite frankly i side with Banner here. If the owner is intrigued by a train wreck that does not mean his employees should entertain him by telling him how nice the train wreck looks

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Haslam was paired with former Eagles president Banner, who wore out his welcome in Philadelphia after a long tenure with owner Jeffrey Lurie and coach Andy Reid. The headstrong Banner was looking to run a franchise on his own, and Haslam decided to take him on as day-to-day steward. Haslam disputes the commonly held view that his partnership with Banner was an arranged marriage, because he said he interviewed him and chose him; Banner, he said, was forced on him by no one.

yes

a "belief" which the owner himself says is untrue

which is far from the fact it has been presented as, in fact i would say since this is from the horses mouth, it down right ends any conversation about it

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lol

king says Haslam wanted Schiano

You guys still on the "those guys needed to go, Haslam can control this thing" knowing that Haslam's solution was Schiano?

Did you read the single paragraph of the article that was devoted to Schiano? If so, I'll just say I don't agree with your assessment of it. If not, I'll put it here:

Bill Belichick and Urban Meyer were strong in recommendations for fired Tampa Bay coach Greg Schiano—Belichick called twice—and here’s where I hear there was a major rift in the organization. Banner wanted nothing to do with Schiano. Haslam was intrigued with him after the over-the-top recommendation from Belichick. The group flew to Tampa to interview Schiano, and one source said Banner was cold to Schiano, not participating much in the interview. Banner likely thought Schiano would be a disastrous hire, given all the negatives in recent Cleveland history. He was probably right, but the owner was open to it, and when the owner’s open to it, the man running football operations should at least consider it.

ok

he did not want him, he was intrigued by him (according to this report)

that is still a red flag

Quite frankly i side with Banner here. If the owner is intrigued by a train wreck that does not mean his employees should entertain him by telling him how nice the train wreck looks

The bolded disturbs me just as much.

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lol

king says Haslam wanted Schiano

You guys still on the "those guys needed to go, Haslam can control this thing" knowing that Haslam's solution was Schiano?

Did you read the single paragraph of the article that was devoted to Schiano? If so, I'll just say I don't agree with your assessment of it. If not, I'll put it here:

Bill Belichick and Urban Meyer were strong in recommendations for fired Tampa Bay coach Greg Schiano—Belichick called twice—and here’s where I hear there was a major rift in the organization. Banner wanted nothing to do with Schiano. Haslam was intrigued with him after the over-the-top recommendation from Belichick. The group flew to Tampa to interview Schiano, and one source said Banner was cold to Schiano, not participating much in the interview. Banner likely thought Schiano would be a disastrous hire, given all the negatives in recent Cleveland history. He was probably right, but the owner was open to it, and when the owner’s open to it, the man running football operations should at least consider it.

ok

he did not want him, he was intrigued by him (according to this report)

that is still a red flag

Quite frankly i side with Banner here. If the owner is intrigued by a train wreck that does not mean his employees should entertain him by telling him how nice the train wreck looks

The bolded disturbs me just as much.

it sounds like banner was a tool, i don't dispute that. But i'd have a hard time sitting through a schiano interview and pretending i wanted to restart my franchise with him. Did you see tampa this season? Good lord talk about a recipe for disaster. What if it was schiano sitting there right now instead of Pettine? dear me

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lol

king says Haslam wanted Schiano

You guys still on the "those guys needed to go, Haslam can control this thing" knowing that Haslam's solution was Schiano?

Did you read the single paragraph of the article that was devoted to Schiano? If so, I'll just say I don't agree with your assessment of it. If not, I'll put it here:

Bill Belichick and Urban Meyer were strong in recommendations for fired Tampa Bay coach Greg Schiano—Belichick called twice—and here’s where I hear there was a major rift in the organization. Banner wanted nothing to do with Schiano. Haslam was intrigued with him after the over-the-top recommendation from Belichick. The group flew to Tampa to interview Schiano, and one source said Banner was cold to Schiano, not participating much in the interview. Banner likely thought Schiano would be a disastrous hire, given all the negatives in recent Cleveland history. He was probably right, but the owner was open to it, and when the owner’s open to it, the man running football operations should at least consider it.

ok

he did not want him, he was intrigued by him (according to this report)

that is still a red flag

Quite frankly i side with Banner here. If the owner is intrigued by a train wreck that does not mean his employees should entertain him by telling him how nice the train wreck looks

The bolded disturbs me just as much.

it sounds like banner was a tool, i don't dispute that. But i'd have a hard time sitting through a schiano interview and pretending i wanted to restart my franchise with him. Did you see tampa this season? Good lord talk about a recipe for disaster. What if it was schiano sitting there right now instead of Pettine? dear me

I hear ya...and hopefully he's not sitting there one year from today.

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Good snapsis by Burge.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1956881-cleveland-browns-promoting-ray-farmer-was-a-much-needed-course-correction

Cleveland Browns Promoting Ray Farmer Was a Much-Needed Course Correction By Will Burge , Featured Columnist Feb 12, 2014

Amid the disaster that has been the Cleveland Browns offseason, perhaps there is finally a ray of light. Pun intended. Owner Jimmy Haslam cleaned house on Tuesday by jettisoning general manager Michael Lombardi and announcing C.E.O. Joe Banner will be stepping down.

In their place, President Alec Scheiner will assume all aspects of the Browns’ business and Ray Farmer has been promoted to general manager to oversee football operations.

From the outside looking in, it seems like a continuation of the problems that have plagued the Browns since 1999. Cleveland has been a franchise that has seen far too much turnover and the trend has not slowed.

Since Haslam bought the Browns, they are on their third coach, third general manager and second president. While some of that was assumed staff from the previous ownership, the firings were still Haslam’s.

From the outside it would seem that the Browns were rushing to conclusions after a 4-12 season where they were building for 2014 anyway. Why would Haslam run everyone out of town when they were never focused on 2013?

With the most cap space in the NFL, the Browns made minimal moves and opted to trade out of the fourth and fifth rounds of the draft last season. They already lacked a second round pick and ended up drafting just two players who contributed.

From the outside it would seem that Haslam is an over-controlling owner who is putting the blame on everyone else for his franchise’s lame-duck season. The typical billionaire who refuses to admit fault in his own hires and decisions.

“I underestimated this: It’s a learning curve to be an NFL owner,” Haslam told the media on Tuesday. “If you want to look at me as a work-in-progress, that’s fair to say or to do. I will tell you this: These are the last of the major changes that we’re going to make in the organization, but we’ll continue to, if I can use the word, ‘tinker’ with the organization to continue to find was to improve it and make it better.”

That does not sound like an owner who is unwilling to accept the blame for his actions.

“I will accept responsibility for some of the changes that have been made,” Haslam told the media on Tuesday. “There is no primer for being an NFL owner. It is a learn-on-the-go, if you will, but I think what’s really important is for everybody in this room but really much more so for our fans to understand that this ownership group, our family and this owner is committed to bringing a winner to the Browns.”

Haslam identified a major issue in his organization and acted. This is a course correction.

Despite outside perceptions, people around Cleveland are ecstatic over the moves made. Haslam got rid of two unproven front-office guys who acted as if their word was better than gold.

He then divided their responsibilities between two of the brightest and most liked young talents in NFL management. Scheiner, who worked under Jerry Jones in Dallas, is considered one of the most connected and innovative minds in the NFL.

He spearheaded the Browns' increased effort to communicate with fans and find out exactly what needs to be improved. He was the catalyst for a revamped game day experience in 2013. That aspect will only get better.

He was the leader of the movement for stadium renovations that will take place over the next two seasons. These will finally bring FirstEnergy Stadium up to NFL standards.

Those close to the team laugh at the notion that promoting Farmer is any type of step backwards. He has already been working with the team for 11 months and was the lone representative for the Browns most of Senior Bowl week.

Whether he had the title or not, Farmer was doing a lot of the duties that a general manager would assume.

Farmer’s track record is also much better than Lombardi’s. The 1990s Browns and Oakland Raiders were not a great resume for Lombardi.

Farmer was involved in the scouting and drafting of nine different Pro Bowl players between 2006 and 2012 in Kansas City. Included in that list is wide receiver Dwayne Bowe, linebacker Tamba Hali, running back Jamaal Charles and safety Eric Berry.

People in Cleveland are happy to have the duo that allowed the Browns to once again be an embarrassment by leaking the firing of head coach Rob Chudzinski to the media before the players were notified. Getting rid of a coach after one season is not a fireable offense, but the way they handled it was.

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Not to defend King (who I can't stand as a Bengals fan) or even Haslem but he didn't say that Haslem wanted Schiano - he said he was very interested in interviewing Schiano after the longest tenured coach in the NFL (who has won 3 Super Bowls) gave him an incredibly glowing review. And that Banner checked out of the interview - that he didn't even give a good faith effort. Perhaps if Banner was engaged in that interview it would not have shown so badly on him - he could've still made the case against Schiano afterwards.

Anyway, that's the impression I got - it wasn't so much not taking Schiano, it was not even giving him a fair hearing.

Anyway, how often do these backwards builds succeed? (by which I mean coach first then GM - and how often does that happen when both are in the first season?)

Is it possible Haslem figures it out (assuming the Flying J stuff doesn't force him out) - sure. The frequency of THAT happening for owners (learning from past mistakes and changing) is very very small, though.

-QG

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you are in year one of a five year plan. if you can't see that, you are in denial.

who was on the raiders three years ago and is still on the team? Who was a part of the long term plan? What was your cap and draft pick situation like?

Now answer those same questions with the browns now.

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Tom James @TribStarTJames
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Cleveland Plain-Dealer writer Mary Kay Cabot, who is a veteran on the Browns beat, thinks the team is saving the CEO job for Peyton Manning.

:lol:

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As I said before, the "4-5 years away" things makes no sense. EVERY team in the NFL is a QB and a couple good draft picks away from being a contender. EVERY team. Which means EVERY team is potentially 1-2 years away.

It might seem some teams are 4-5 years away, but think about that. Think of every team you say that about. How many of the current good players on that team will be good players 5 years from now? MAYBE a couple.

As for the Browns, who knows. They could have a QB and be competing in 2015, or keep things as-is and not compete again for like 40 years.

I get the "perception" of the 4-5 years away mentality because we have needs and it takes time to fill those needs since you only get so many draft picks, and young players need time to improve, but that isn't reality. Teams have gone from bad to good basically over night. See Kansas City, and they did it with a pretty mediocre QB. And some teams have gone from great to horrible with one injury, see the Packers.

Another funny thing, people keep saying we have had these problems because of ownership. One owner was totally hands off. This owner seems pretty opposite of that. Same results. I think the biggest problem is that the best GMs won't even dream of coming here. Maybe Ozzie will come hang with us for a few years at the end of his career as a GM, who knows. Maybe we do need another owner change though. Prison could speed that along.

How many players on SEA from before 2011, a few?

They completely turned the roster over and built a potential dynasty in three seasons. And they went to the playoffs last year, so just two years from 2011.

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This X-year plan stuff is silly. If you find a playoff level QB, you become a playoff level team. Period.

Seattle made the leap when they found Wilson.

New Orleans with Brees

Atlanta jumped from #1 pick to playoffs with Ryan

Same with Indy and Luck, and Washington with RGIII.

Dalton's regular season play makes Cinci a playoff caliber team every year

Pitt has been competitive for 10 years because of Ben despite rotating skill guys and an aging defense

Same with the Giants and Eli

and of course Brady in NE

GB didn't drop off after Favre left because they had Rodgers.

Competent coaching helps too, but the greatest coach isn't going to win the Super Bowl with a crap QB. Great QB play makes any coach look like a genius.

If the Browns or Raiders find the right QB, they will compete for a playoff spot this year. If not, see you back in the top 10 next year.

yep

they draft the right qb thhis year and they are knocking on the door, keep the faith cle fans.. pettine might be a good one as well...

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i'll keep saying it:

winning cures everything. the rest is just fluff.

i don't give a flying j if they fire the coach and gm EVERY year if it means they eventually find the right people.

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I dunno... might be because Im not from the Cleveland area... or because as a fan of the leafs, raptors and browns Im accustomed to failure...

but there's a certain charm to losing year after year. I dont love it... I dont prefer it... but it's charming in an effed up way

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Not to defend King (who I can't stand as a Bengals fan) or even Haslem but he didn't say that Haslem wanted Schiano - he said he was very interested in interviewing Schiano after the longest tenured coach in the NFL (who has won 3 Super Bowls) gave him an incredibly glowing review. And that Banner checked out of the interview - that he didn't even give a good faith effort. Perhaps if Banner was engaged in that interview it would not have shown so badly on him - he could've still made the case against Schiano afterwards.

Anyway, that's the impression I got - it wasn't so much not taking Schiano, it was not even giving him a fair hearing.

Anyway, how often do these backwards builds succeed? (by which I mean coach first then GM - and how often does that happen when both are in the first season?)

Is it possible Haslem figures it out (assuming the Flying J stuff doesn't force him out) - sure. The frequency of THAT happening for owners (learning from past mistakes and changing) is very very small, though.

-QG

I hear you, but schiano was among the biggest cluster####s of a coach i can recall in recent years. No matter what Bellicheck said I am not sure he deserved a fair hearing given what transpired in Tampa.

Bellicheck is a great coach, but it does not mean everyone he likes or touches are great coaches, and Schiano seems to have some issues at this point. I also think the Browns fan base would not have reacted well to taking a cast off from the bucs whose players seemed to have issues with him. None of which means that Banner should have acted like a d-bag in the interviews, that's not professional. But the fact that Haslam was intrigued is concerning to me.

If Haslam really has realized that he has made errors, and learned from it, then one would think that things are looking up in Brownieland

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i'll keep saying it:

winning cures everything. the rest is just fluff.

i don't give a flying j if they fire the coach and gm EVERY year if it means they eventually find the right people.

That's the rub though, stability goes a long way towards winning.

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Article from dawgpoundnation.com...

Firing Mike Lombardi and Joe Banner: What really happened?

February 11, 2014 by Shawn Starr

We reported on February 4th that Mike Lombardi was rumored to be on his way out as Browns GM, we ran into a lot of flak and rebuttals. Truth be told, I had heard these rumors starting back around the same time Chud was fired, but didn’t have enough evidence or multiple sources to confirm, so we let it simmer for a while. Patiently, we let the evidence build and more sources leak out and confirm what we had been hearing.

Today, obviously, it came to a head, as in a bombshell (to those who don’t follow us, anyhow) Jimmy Haslam announced the firing of Michael Lombardi and the gradual withdrawal from operations of Joe Banner. Additionally, he announced that Ray Farmer was being promoted as the new GM, something else we mentioned as a very real probability. While it might seem sudden and dishevelled to many, this has been in the works for a long, long time. Let’s take a walk through the past then, and see how we got here.

The groundwork for all of this actually happened as part of the deal that allowed Jimmy Haslam to purchase the Cleveland Browns. As part of the deal (a non-public part of the deal, mind you), Jimmy was required by the NFL to take on Joe Banner as CEO of the franchise. This was presented by the League as a way to help Haslam transition into ownership, and give the League a voice in the Browns consistently struggling front office. Banner actually saw to the inclusion and eventual hiring of Lombardi before Chud was hired, though Lombardi was announced after Chud, to ideally help lessen the inevitable criticism over bringing Lombardi back to the Browns. Sources close to the situation then told us that Haslam was not thrilled about having Banner and Lombardi essentially forced on him, but not wanting to make enemies out of friends, he accepted the deal and bought the team.
Shortly after the purchase was announced, as you all remember, Jimmy H ran into his still on-going legal issues. This left most of the power and day to day control of the organization in the hands of Banner and Lombardi. Which, from sources in Berea, they ran a very secretive, power centric office. They alienated workers, created a borderline hostile environment, and shucked accountability for mistakes, such as the failure in last years draft and free agency. They played fast and loose with Chud, one day accusing him of failing to support players, other days demanding that he cut players (Greg Little, Shawn Laovao) to set an example. The longer this went on, the more the rumors started to leak of trouble in Berea. The Banner/Lombardi regime, however, continued to sell the story of a friendly, excited work place to the likes of Mary Kay and other beat reporters, who gladly gobbled up the stories of hope and happiness. The truth, however, would not stay hidden forever.

As the season went on, it became more and more clear that Lombardi had failed utterly in free agency and the draft the previous year, and we began to see a gradual shift where Ray Farmer had more and more sway in the personnel department. Eventually, before season’s end, Haslam had set Farmer up as the de facto head of personnel, as we saw with Farmer being the sole Browns executive present at any collegiate games and major events toward the end of the regular season and after. After Chud was fired, we heard that Lombardi was next to go. The longer the situation in Berea dragged on, the less Lombardi was included in areas where you’d normally expect to see a GM. This withdrawal was sold as Lombardi not being the face of the franchise, but investigative fans were already looking beneath the surface to see why Lombardi had suddenly vanished from the public’s eye.
The “straw that broke the camel’s back”, I’m told, was the push that Lombardi made for Josh McDaniels. We reported early that McDaniels was all but hired as the Browns next head coach, as our source close to Lombardi said that Lombardi had worked out the particulars behind the scenes before Chud was even fired. When McDaniels turned the job down, it was the last black eye that Jimmy Haslam was prepared to take due to his CEO and GM. Haslam took over the head coach search himself, and was extremely impressed by Mike Pettine. As we know, Pettine was later hired by Haslam.

That takes us up to last week, when we first reported what we could from our investigation into the rumors around Lombardi, as our source (per Shawn) said a move was likely to happen before the draft, and another independent source from Concede put the “Firing Timeline” as before the Combine. We called out that this article written by the often wrong Mary Kay Cabot was convenientlyposted the day after we broke the rumors. At this point, Haslam had already maneuvered a replacement for Lombardi (in Ray Farmer) and hand-picked his own head coach (Pettine). It was at this point that Haslam decided to liquidate Joe Banner’s position, and restructure the Browns so that the GM and Coach both had a direct line to his office, and so that he would personally oversee the day-to-day operations of the organization.

In probably the most Godfather/Game of Thrones narrative you could imagine for a football franchise, you can see how this entire tale of backdoor dealings, power struggles and behind the scenes maneuvers has led us to today, when Haslam gave the word and seized complete control of his organization. Where will this all end up? Too early to say, and I’d be lying if I said I had some clairvoyance to that end. But, I can’t help but feel like the good guys won this round.

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