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Cleveland Browns (13 Viewers)

Thought this was intesting and may have been missed here.

From the Colin Kaepernick thread:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=668316&page=33

Bracie Smathers said:
GordonGekko said:
Rumor I'm hearing floating around the league the past few days is that if the draft shakes out

1 Bortles

2 Manziel ( via trade)

3 Bridgewater

That Cleveland is open to trading for Kaepernick for the 4th overall pick as anchors in a much larger trade package. That they rate him higher now that they would any prospect in the current draft if the top three QB1 draft options are off the board.

From what I'm hearing, elements in the 49ers front office are far far from sold on Kaepernick and would use the 4th on Sammy Watkins and would hope to grab Garrapolo in Round 2/3 and sign a stopgap QB1 veteran.

This would be seen as a win/win for both teams

- Cleveland would be a dual threat QB1 further in the development track to be tutored by Kyle Shanahan and make best use of the primes of Josh Gordon, Jordan Cameron and Joe Thomas

- Settling in a QB1 would allow Mike Pettine to concentrate on the defense

- SF would trade in a QB1 they don't think is worth 17 million a year for two cost controlled rookies, one that Harbaugh is high on and will ease the tension some by letting him grab a guy he wants for QB1 and Sammy Watkins would be, hopefully, the true WR#1 they want to pair with Boldin, plus open up the cap space needed to try to keep that offensive line together.
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OK, I'll bite.

Where is this coming from?

The reason I ask is because it makes bizzaro-sense on many levels.

SF can sign someone like Luke McCowan short-term and draft a rook in the second round and develop them and not have to pony-up $20 million a year for a guy who isn't clicking on 60% of his passing attempts especially if they have reservations because I'm sure they are crunching the numbers and have looked around the league and see teams with highly paid QBs who are pressed-up against the salary cap every year.

Also for the Browns, Kap makes sense. They'd simply draft someone but it doesn't look like anyone of the top-three/four QBs in this draft are worthy so paying the pick and the dollars for Kap makes sense.

So where are these rumors coming from?
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so, trade kaep to get a WR and hope some veteran stop gap gets you through till garrapalo is ready, or throw Garrapalo out there?

why not keep kaep, draft garrapalo, and see what Kaep does this season?

I am just not buying that after three NFC championship appearance s and a super bowl appearance they are gonna trade Kaep for a rookie WR and roll the dice on Matt Shaub or some such cast off

 
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Gordon Gecco replied, its lengthy but the bottom line is the money and basically SF won't pay it so Kap will walk and they'll only get a compensentory late 3rd round pick in exchange and they see making a deal right now the highest price that they can command.

Also I am lsitening to Cleveland Browns Daily right now and guess what?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmnnnnnnnnnn right now, live on Cleveland Browns Daily they are talking about Jimmy Garrapollo's Pro Day and only two NFL HCs were in attendence.

One, Houston's O'brien. Makes sense if they are contemplating Jadeveon Clowney with the first pick.

The other NFL head coach who was there and who seemed very-interested according Yahoo Sports who was there was San Francisco HC Jim Harbaugh. Hmnnnnnnnn.

LINK to the program. They post the shows typically a day later so you can find this in the last half hour of the program.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/audio/Cleveland_Browns_Daily_LIVE/2a0cc2c2-5d29-4b02-ac5b-b8b07fc17475

Makes ya wonder why Harbaugh would be soo interested in Garrapollo.

Made bizzaro-sense but now it seems like dots could start being connected, like Harbaugh being one of two NFL HCs to attend Jimmy Garrappolo's Pro Day where he showed keen interest in the young man.

 
Pro Days 3/4/14:

Auburn, Buffalo, Eastern Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue, SMU

Why would Harbaugh go to any of the others? While there may be some dotted line connecting worth exploring, let's not go ape #### because Harbaugh went to see a QB. He is, after all, the best/most important QB scout in the organization. He probably hits up the important QB pro days each year.

 
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Harbaugh was interested in Garoppolo and unless he typically spends 45 minutes before a Pro Day workout begins with a prospect then he showed more interest in Jimmy than he typically shows.

----------------------------------------------

Eric Edholm@Eric_EdholmFollow

31 of 32 NFL teams spotted at Northwestern Pro Day to watch EIU's Jimmy Garoppolo. JG and Jim Harbaugh warmed up for 45 minutes together.

11:18 AM - 4 Mar 2014
Eric Edholm@Eric_EdholmFollow

So they did, and Garoppolo and Harbaugh ducked on to an off-limits-to-others part of the field and threw and talked for 45 minutes.

12:08 PM - 4 Mar 2014
Eric Edholm@Eric_EdholmFollow

Jimmy Garoppolo on how Jim Harbaugh mini-workout came together: "He saw me, introduced himself and said, 'Wanna throw a little?'"

12:06 PM - 4 Mar 2014

Eric Edholm@Eric_EdholmFollow

One last Harbaugh nugget on Garoppolo: He watched several of his games over 4 years. Also: "I enjoyed following him through [this] year."

12:18 PM - 4 Mar 2014

 
GordonGekko said:
B-Deep said:
so, trade kaep to get a WR and hope some veteran stop gap gets you through till garrapalo is ready, or throw Garrapalo out there?

why not keep kaep, draft garrapalo, and see what Kaep does this season?

I am just not buying that after three NFC championship appearance s and a super bowl appearance they are gonna trade Kaep for a rookie WR and roll the dice on Matt Shaub or some such cast off
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First, it's entirely possible that the 49ers will do exactly that, draft another young QB1 prospect and let Kaepernick play out the string. No where anywhere and at any point did I guarantee any type of trade.

Second, you keep referring to Sammy Watkins as "some rookie WR" He is the consensus best WR prospect in what is considered a very deep draft class. It is very RARE for a franchise in the position of the 49ers ( Strong recent streak of winning and more likely to pick in the bottom of the first round consistently) to get a player from the Top 5 pool of the draft. Look at what the Falcons paid to get Julio Jones and what Seattle paid to get Percy Harvin. The 49ers would be getting a top shelf WR#1 prospect at a COST CONTROLLED 4 years.

Third, I'm making no assertion that this is the right move for the Browns, if it ever did come to fruition. Here's the Brown's current reality, like it or not. If the Browns draft a rookie QB1 prospect this draft, he will likely not reach his potential, whatever it is, until his third year in the league. Yes, some of the more recent young QB1s have had some great rookie success, but is that the exception or the rule? By that time, Joe Thomas is not the same player he is in 2014. And you don't know what will happen to Jordan Cameron and/or Josh Gordon then. But right now, those players are in their PRIME. Kaepernick will be entering his fourth year, already acclimated to the league, trained by Jim Harbaugh, Greg Roman and Geep Chryst, playoff tested, already faced the pressure of playing in the Super Bowl and still very young.

Getting a fourth year QB1 means you are taking advantage of Gordon entering Year 3, Cameron entering Year 4 and before Thomas hits his decline phase. Also Alex Mack is a top shelf center, but he's a top shelf guy RIGHT NOW. Three years from now, that could be a different story.

The Browns aren't paying the RG3 price but then again, they don't get the upside of most of Kaepernick's cheaper cost controlled years. However they don't have to suffer through some of his growing pains as well. And the burden of a lot of his development fell onto the 49ers. Instead of getting a rookie this year, who might mesh well with Kyle Shanahan, if they have a little success, Shanahan, looking for a head coaching job, is gone. Then what happens to your rookie? Mike Pettine does not have a background in QB1 development. Getting a more ready made/more ready now guy eases a lot of those questions and burdens from the Browns.

The 49ers aren't getting the RG3 type bounty in return either, however, if they can milk a 2nd round pick into some cheap productive years and then trade him for a top shelf WR prospect or anyone else who they can pick at that slot, I would consider that a win for them in terms of resource management.

The best players the Browns have RIGHT NOW are PRIME RIGHT NOW. Waiting on a rookie to pan out, or not, costs you those valuable years for all those players. Do you think it was fun in Tampa to watch that elite defense wait year after year for Trent Dilfer or Shaun King to emerge into something? A team that could have won many ring, won one ring, because the defense simply got too old waiting for a QB1 who could do just enough to help them win.

For Haslam, that might be worth 17-18 million a year for a QB1 in what might be an overpay ( If the Browns rip up Kaepernick's year 4, he's going to have to adjust his desire for a Top 5 contract some there)

The 49ers keeping Kaepernick only invites the locker room distraction and constant questions about his contract. Again and again and again. Ask Browns fans how much the bombardment of negative media scrutiny feels like when dealing with your favorite football team.

Terrelle Pryor. Case Keenum. Mike Glennon. Josh McCown

The pro QB friendly league has shown even some very raw guys, old guys and middling prospects can, at time, throw up some decent numbers and production. The 49ers have to ask themselves the hard question.

Can I get 70 percent of what Kaepernick gave me but at 1/20th of the cost? Can I live with that? The other 19/20ths, can I use that all across the other 52 guys to help me build a winner?

Will the 30 percent more Kaepernick gives me over a cost efficient replacement, possibly, be worth the extra 12-14 million I might have to pay a year for a guy who might be a Top 15 guy, but not a Top 5 guy?

Do you think the 49ers WANT to trade a young QB1 prospect they've invested in? But look at the real situation. Pay him what he wants and cripple the rest of your roster for it or get into a protracted media battle with him where odds are you will end up having to cut him or trade him for less than you'd like anyway? If they were going to pay him what he wanted, they would have already. The only answer now is how is he going to leave? On terms better for the 49ers or on terms less than better for the 49ers?

The 49er are like a kid who goes to his prom and realizes no matter what he does, his date is not putting out for him. She's not even going to blow him. It's off the table. The only thing left is to decide what kind of alcohol he's going to have to get drunk after he drops her off at home and rolls with his boys afterwards. He doesn't get to choose to get laid, he gets to choose how to get drunk. That's the 49ers right now. It's not about what they want, it's about making the best of what the situation gives them now.

Again, I never guaranteed this will happen, it's a possibility like a thousand others that float around the league's inner circles before the draft. I am however explaining why it's not as unfeasible as some might make it seem.
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Bloom paying you by the word?

 
I think bernie kosar coming out of retirement is more likely than the niners trading Kaep to the browns this season

 
DQ to the Colts 4yr/22M with 11 guaranteed. Reunited with TRich n Chud.

 
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B-Deep said:
I think bernie kosar coming out of retirement is more likely than the niners trading Kaep to the browns this season
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Less than one-day old:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=149&f=4409&t=12709914

Posted: Yesterday 5:22 PM

Bernie Kosar is Working for the BearsDon't know if anybody caught this, but last Monday on The Really Big Show, Tony Rizzo said Bernie Kosar was helping his friend Mark Trestman and the Bears scout players for this year's draft. Rizzo said Kosar would prefer to help the Browns, but they haven't ask for his help in any capacity.
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Trestman and Kosar have known each other since the 1980s.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/12/a_cleveland_browns_coaching_ca.html
BEREA, Ohio – Marc Trestman, the coaching nomad who’s developed quarterbacks from the shores of South Beach to the French-speaking province of Quebec, spent a short, but productive two years in Cleveland.

He made a pair of playoff appearances with the Browns in 1988-89, learned about mental toughness from Bernie Kosar...
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Bracie Smathers said:
B-Deep said:
I think bernie kosar coming out of retirement is more likely than the niners trading Kaep to the browns this season
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Less than one-day old:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=149&f=4409&t=12709914

Posted: Yesterday 5:22 PM

Bernie Kosar is Working for the BearsDon't know if anybody caught this, but last Monday on The Really Big Show, Tony Rizzo said Bernie Kosar was helping his friend Mark Trestman and the Bears scout players for this year's draft. Rizzo said Kosar would prefer to help the Browns, but they haven't ask for his help in any capacity.
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Trestman and Kosar have known each other since the 1980s.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/12/a_cleveland_browns_coaching_ca.html
BEREA, Ohio – Marc Trestman, the coaching nomad who’s developed quarterbacks from the shores of South Beach to the French-speaking province of Quebec, spent a short, but productive two years in Cleveland.

He made a pair of playoff appearances with the Browns in 1988-89, learned about mental toughness from Bernie Kosar...
Click to expand...
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For a fraction of a second I thought you were going to link us to Bernie coming out of retirement.

 
Lol. Well said.

Reminds me of when I was at work. I work on a psych ward. One of my psychotic patients predicted the lotto numbers using his belt buckle, and the son of a gun got all but one number.

 
Faust said:
Bill Parcells acting as courtesy consultant with Browns
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WTF? That's weird. No doubt Parcells is the man but what's up with him talking to Bridgewater rather than Farmer? I understand you want a guy of Parcells' magnitude helping but I generally don't understand what a "courtesy consultants" function is when the article stated they "won't be taking his advice on any prospect." I respect the teamwork angle but I guess I don't know how they'll use the information. I'm not knocking this, I think it's good if they trust in Farmer, but I'd be more confident if it were Ray working in conjunction with Parcells rather than an owner that thusfar, in my opinion, hasn't shown much of a football prowess other than hiring Farmer.

(Disclosure: I'm biased because I know Ray personally from growing up with him but I think most people would agree if they are in the "know" that Ray was generally considered the top type personnel man of his age bracket, the new young stud in the front office world. Heck, he's 40ish only and he's already a GM after spending his 20's as a player and then having to work his way from the ground up in the scouting world in his 30's. His rapid ascension is perhaps historically unrivaled.)

 
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Bracie Smathers said:
Post combine, Grossi updates his mock.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=29261

Tony Grossi's Mock Draft 2.0: One change among Browns' two picksFeb 28, 2014 -- 6:00am

... Our mocks will stop at the Browns’ second choice at No. 26 until our full first-round projection on Draft Day, May 8.

1. Houston: QB Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M

He still makes the most sense for a team that lacks offensive toughness.

2. St. Louis: WR Sammy Watkins, Clemson

They’re going nowhere until they score some points.

3. Jacksonville: DE Jadeveon Clowney, South Carolina

Coach Gus Bradley can build the team around this disrupter.

4. Cleveland: QB Blake Bortles, Central Florida

Contrary to popular opinion, no need to rush him in. Remember Carson Palmer?

5. Oakland: QB Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville

Future coach Jim Harbaugh would benefit. Wait, what?

6. Atlanta: OT Greg Robinson, Auburn

The Falcons would be ecstatic with this scenario.

7. Tampa Bay: LB Khalil Mack, Buffalo

Coach Lovie Smith puts his stamp on new team.

8. Minnesota: LB Anthony Barr, UCLA

Coach Mike Zimmer will maximize him in revamped defense.

9. Buffalo: OT Jake Matthews, Texas A&M

Ex-line coach Doug Marrone can’t resist.

10. Detroit: CB Darqueze Dennard, Michigan State

How could they bypass local product who fills biggest need?

11. Tennessee: WR Mike Evans, Texas A&M

Another team that doesn’t score enough points to be competitive.

12. N.Y. Giants: OT Taylor Lewan, Michigan

Eli Manning needs help up front.

13. St. Louis: OT Zack Martin, Notre Dame

A run on linemen throws Rams into semi-panic.

14. Chicago: DT Timmy Jernigan, Florida State

Defensive line is a must.

15. Pittsburgh: WR Marqise Lee, Southern California

Steelers have not shied from fast, smaller receivers.

16. Dallas: DT Aaron Donald, Pittsburgh

Superb Combine workouts have pushed him up the board.

17. Baltimore: TE Eric Ebron, North Carolina

Joe Flacco would love this selection.

18. NY Jets: WR Kelvin Benjamin, Florida State

They would have several worthy receivers to choose from.

19. Miami: CB Justin Gilbert, Oklahoma State

Run on offensive tackles leaves them turning to another need.

20. Arizona: OT Cyrus Kouandjio, Alabama

This may be a reach, but they need a tackle badly.

21. Green Bay: DT Louis Nix, Notre Dame

Packers defense needs an overhaul.

22. Philadelphia: FS Calvin Pryor, Louisville

Nice match of talent and need.

23. Kansas City: WR Odell Beckham Jr., Louisiana State

He would fill out Chiefs offense and complement Dwayne Bowe.

24. Cincinnati: DE Kony Early, Missouri

Bengals do a good job of stocking up on defensive front seven.

25. San Diego: CB Jason Verrett, Texas Christian

His Combine performance pushed his stock up.

26. Cleveland: ILB C.J. Mosley, Alabama

Mike Pettine wants to get faster at this position.
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Click to expand...
Updated Grossi mock for this week.

LINK:

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=29521

 
my YouTube highlight reels review of Watkins:

very comfortable and smooth catching the ball. can hand catch away from the body. doesn't trap the ball, but does catch the ball very close to the body at times.

has plenty of speed.

seems to be able to work through contact.

couldn't tell how his route running was from the videos i saw, he was often behind the defender.

very good at tracking the ball in the air and making adjustments.

good moves to make defenders miss.

overall looks every bit the part of an NFL reciever.

i wouldn't mind at all if he ends up lining up opposite Gordon, but i do wonder if he's a luxury the Browns don't necessarily need and if they would be better off with a different position.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Saint said:
So what do you all think of Carr as the possible late first rd pick?
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I like Garoppolo in the 2nd a hundred times more.
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Cecil Lammey interviewed Matt Waldman yesterday on his ESPN radio show and Waldman doesn't like Garopollo, calls him a 'Barbi-doll' type of QB who checks off the boxes on a 1950's NFL checklist that is outdated but that some teams still use.

Interesting stuff here.

He lists QB Teddy Bridgewater as his top QB from this draft class even though he lacks prototypical size/arm-strength. My top QB from this class has always been Teddy and I'm pretty sure he was Banner's guy but with Farmer now making the football calls, well. Ray is a rookie NFL GM. Rookie NFL GM's have historically been hesitant to use their top picks on QBs but if Teddy is sitting there I would take him.

In any case here is Lammey and Waldman's take from yesterday.

--------------------------------------

Mar 9 2014

2014 Volume#20a - Interview with Matt Waldman, NFL draft expert with Football Outsiders and author of the Rookie Scouting Portfolio. (#2089)

In This Episode: Cecil Lammey interviews Matt Waldman, NFL draft expert with Football Outsiders and author of the Rookie Scouting Portfolio. Topics Include - the difficulty in scouting quarterbacks, how to spot competitive greatness, why Teddy Bridgewater is the number one quarterback this year, plus more!

 
I would rather have Byrd or keep ward. I see Whitner as a slightly lessor, slightly older version of Ward, and Byrd is far better in coverage than either. Still, will be nice to have the former buckeye back in state if it happens. Not sure if his time in Buffalo coincided with that of our new head coach, but may be some familiarity with each other?

 
gandalas said:
I would rather have Byrd or keep ward. I see Whitner as a slightly lessor, slightly older version of Ward, and Byrd is far better in coverage than either. Still, will be nice to have the former buckeye back in state if it happens. Not sure if his time in Buffalo coincided with that of our new head coach, but may be some familiarity with each other?
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For all we know Byrd and Ward might be unrealistic options.

Maybe the savings between Ward and Whitner means will still make a play for Byrd? Ward/Whitner = SS and Byrd = FS.

Pettine was not with the Bills when Whitner was there, just with Byrd last year.

 
The Peter King tweet on Mack is interesting. His agent says he's confident he can structure a deal with reasonable likelihood Browns won't match. Sorta screams Mack wants out, no? Why would he say that then?

 
Bobcat10 said:
The Peter King tweet on Mack is interesting. His agent says he's confident he can structure a deal with reasonable likelihood Browns won't match. Sorta screams Mack wants out, no? Why would he say that then?
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definitely sounds like he won't sign a long term deal here.
 
Bobcat10 said:
Soulfly3 said:
When the Lions try to trade up to 4 to get Watkins, you do what?

Cuz this is going down.
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Say whaaaa?
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Firmly believe DET makes a heavy attempt to move up to 4 if Watkins is there. The romance is public now.

Too difficult for them to move top 3 imo, so if he sits at 4, theyll pressue to get watkins.

problem is, CLE wants him to, but in this crazy deep draft, they may also want hella more picks

 
Soulfly3 said:
Bobcat10 said:
Soulfly3 said:
When the Lions try to trade up to 4 to get Watkins, you do what?

Cuz this is going down.
Click to expand...
Say whaaaa?
Click to expand...
Firmly believe DET makes a heavy attempt to move up to 4 if Watkins is there. The romance is public now.

Too difficult for them to move top 3 imo, so if he sits at 4, theyll pressue to get watkins.

problem is, CLE wants him to, but in this crazy deep draft, they may also want hella more picks
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Depending on the rest of the return, I might be in favor of the move down to #10.

 
Yeah, become the Patriots. Accumulate draft picks so you have more chances of getting better than average players. And use them to move around in drafts and get who you want. Just don't miss with the early pick.

 
Charles Johnson??? Anyone else see opportunity for WR4/5?
20 team dynasty leagues, you NEED these types of players to

 
The Man With No Name said:
Yeah, become the Patriots. Accumulate draft picks so you have more chances of getting better than average players. And use them to move around in drafts and get who you want. Just don't miss with the early pick.
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Yep. The Patriots have been absolute masters of this for a long time now. Just imagine how good they would have been the last decade or so if they actually drafted well.

Hmm, a trade down to pick 10.............picks 10 and 45 are fine to me unless Clowney is there, then I think they should get more if they move down.

But if Clowney is gone, and at least one QB is gone, 10/45 would be acceptable, although they probable get a little more than that.

 
ghostguy123 said:
The Man With No Name said:
Yeah, become the Patriots. Accumulate draft picks so you have more chances of getting better than average players. And use them to move around in drafts and get who you want. Just don't miss with the early pick.
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Yep. The Patriots have been absolute masters of this for a long time now. Just imagine how good they would have been the last decade or so if they actually drafted well.

Hmm, a trade down to pick 10.............picks 10 and 45 are fine to me unless Clowney is there, then I think they should get more if they move down.

But if Clowney is gone, and at least one QB is gone, 10/45 would be acceptable, although they probable get a little more than that.
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Maybe a 2 or 3 next year as well? 10 to 4 is a pretty big jump.

At 10 you're looking at Evans or one of the CBs which would be ok with me. Maybe Mosely if they really like him. Or Mack if he slips (not likely).

 
4.............for 10, 45, and a 2015 2nd.

I would do it right now. Then try and deal a 3rd this year for another 2nd next year. Pick 83 should do it.

Color me crazy, but even for all you guys who want a QB.......................I think one of the "big 3" will be there at 10. I don't want one though

 
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