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Cleveland Browns (9 Viewers)

Bracie Smathers said:
Callaway had no clue that Reid was approaching from the back right side.

He saw Breshard take out the DB directly behind him and then took a peak to his back left and visibly looked down to double check the ball was in the opposite hand literally RIGHT BEFORE Reid got to him.  

He had no clue and actually made the right directional change and was holding the ball in the proper hand based on the information he had at the time since he had no clue Reid was coming up fast to his back right.

If he hadn't run 76 yards and then had to trot back to the huddle and then run another 60 yards then I don't think Reid has a chance in heck to be in position to catch him.  
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I think he knew he was there as it looks like he leans into Reid to take the brunt of the hit right before he gets hit. Could be wrong.

 
9 teams currently have a worse record than the Browns. 

if the draft were today, they’d be picking 11th. 

this is better than 0-16 for sure.  

 
Mary Kay Cabot‏Verified account @MaryKayCabot

Reporter: Baker, did you wake up feeling dangerous this morning? Baker: I think you know the answer to that

1:51 PM - 9 Dec 2018 from Cleveland, OH

------------------------------------------------------------------

Danger Man

 
amnesiac said:
9 teams currently have a worse record than the Browns. 

if the draft were today, they’d be picking 11th. 

this is better than 0-16 for sure.  
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More wins than 2014, 2015 & 2016 combined.

Even if they lost their remaining games, 2018 is already the second best season of the last 11 (2007 was their last winning season.)

 
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amnesiac said:
crazy. 
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If only Hue was cut loose sooner, or we had a decent kicker the first couple of games.  We would seriously be talking about playoffs right now with this team.  That is crazy!

I like the role of playoff spoiler - that suits this team this year, I think.  Let them keep learning how to win and damper other's spirits the rest of the season. 

Beat up on a weak Denver squad.

Send Marvin Lewis on his way and let the Hue Dysfunctional Tour really begin after they trounce Cincy

Play spoiler to Baltimore's hopes of a surprising run to end the year

This team could possibly win out and be 8-7-1 with their first winning season, as well as the most wins in a season, since 2007!

 
Peak said:
If only Hue was cut loose sooner, or we had a decent kicker the first couple of games.  We would seriously be talking about playoffs right now with this team.  That is crazy!

I like the role of playoff spoiler - that suits this team this year, I think.  Let them keep learning how to win and damper other's spirits the rest of the season. 

Beat up on a weak Denver squad.

Send Marvin Lewis on his way and let the Hue Dysfunctional Tour really begin after they trounce Cincy

Play spoiler to Baltimore's hopes of a surprising run to end the year

This team could possibly win out and be 8-7-1 with their first winning season, as well as the most wins in a season, since 2007!
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The way PIT & BAL are going, 8-7-1 could win the div.

 
The other piece to consider, since 2000, only 6 teams went 1-15 or 0-16 in the NFL.  Of those 6 teams, only one returned the following year with a winning record.

Year Team Record Next Season
2017 Browns 0-16 8-7-1 (if they win out)
2009 Rams 1-15 7-9
2008 Lions 0-16 2-14
2007 Dolphins 1-15 11-5
2001 Panthers 1-15 7-7
2000 Chargers 1-15 5-11


The Dolphins quick turn around came on the hands of the "new" wildcat formations with Pennington and Ronnie Brown.  They drafted a LT (Jake Long) to help solidfy the line and keep Pennington on his feet.  Their creativity helped turn things around quickly, but they weren't able to sustain.

Cleveland has somewhat organically created their growth and have a great chance to sustain and continue to flourish.  Great young powerhouse team in the making, IMO.

 
daveR said:
The way PIT & BAL are going, 8-7-1 could win the div.
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It's certainly possible looking at upcoming schedules that we could still have a shot at the division going into Week 17.  But we'd then need Hue's Driskel's to go into Pittsburgh and win.

 
Division is mathematically possible but improbable.

Pittsburgh owns tie breaker and have 7 wins meaning they would have to lose-out which seems improbable since they have the Bengals at home for the finale.

We would have to win-out.  We need to beat Denver in Denver and Mayfield is only 1-4 on the road and would be playing on a short week.  Tough but then he also has to beat the Ravens in Balltimore.

Baltimore would have to lose 2 of their final 3 games and they have Tampa Bay this week.

Division doesn't seem likely and the Wild Card is even more convoluted.

Playoffs are much more likely next year and we 'hopefully' can add a few more pieces this offseason.

No matter what happens we've got the quarterback and will be in it going forward.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Division is mathematically possible but improbable.

Pittsburgh owns tie breaker and have 7 wins meaning they would have to lose-out which seems improbable since they have the Bengals at home for the finale.

We would have to win-out.  We need to beat Denver in Denver and Mayfield is only 1-4 on the road and would be playing on a short week.  Tough but then he also has to beat the Ravens in Balltimore.

Baltimore would have to lose 2 of their final 3 games and they have Tampa Bay this week.

Division doesn't seem likely and the Wild Card is even more convoluted.

Playoffs are much more likely next year and we 'hopefully' can add a few more pieces this offseason.

No matter what happens we've got the quarterback and will be in it going forward.
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I agree with the bolded, but the below scenario is very real.

CLE > DEN, CLE > CIN

PIT < NE, PIT < NO

BAL > TB, BAL < SD

That'd set it up for CLE and CIN wins week 17 to earn a spot.  But we'll be under dogs right fully so and the Steelers will be massive favorites.

I think Tennessee/Indy is the wildcard problem.  Both need to go 1-2, as do all the other 7-6 teams, but they play each other week 17.  So one of them needs to lose two in a row while the other splits then the team that lost two in a row must win the finale.  Looking at their schedules that doesn't look like a good bet.  I think there's a good chance the others go 1-2 or worse, but one of those teams is going to finish at least 2-1.

 
Peak said:
If only Hue was cut loose sooner
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In other words, it doesn't usually work out when you force a coach onto a new GM.

It's amazing Hue (and maybe Haley, but end of day the buck falls on Hue and I think this was part of the discord), being a QB whisperer and all, didn't start giving Baker more reps and a legit shot at starting earlier in the camp/preseason.  I also wonder how much Buddy Boy had to do with this because he's the one who spent a 3rd on Taylor.  

Sure, hindsight is 20-20 and all that, but it's a very fair criticism considering Hue was the coach and was at all the practices, film sessions, etc....things that we are not privy to, although did see some insight during HK.  Seems to easily be Hue's biggest blunder of everything he stunk at or said....and most of us probably came to this conclusion weeks ago.

 
MAC_32 said:
It's certainly possible looking at upcoming schedules that we could still have a shot at the division going into Week 17.  But we'd then need Hue's Driskel's to go into Pittsburgh and win.
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Although clearly an inferior team, it wouldn't surprise me, as the Bengals tend to luck into a few late wins at the end of the season to justify bringing back Marvin Lewis.   They played the Chargers awfully close yesterday.   As a Bengals fan, it pains me to say it, but again, it wouldn't surprise me.  They seem to lose and win both in disappointing fashion.  I can't help but being impressed by watching the Browns resurgence with Baker at the helm, albeit with a dose of jealousy.   He's a fun qb to watch sling it and with a few pieces of the puzzle around him, he looks to be trending to be a stud qb going forward.  

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
I am not a Browns fan, but I am seriously considering investing in a PSL/season ticket holder for the Browns.  I think a new era begins now.  IMO, they just drafted the top QB and CB along with an upgrade on the O Line and a RB who could be tops in this class.  I'd be pumped to be a Browns fan right now.  
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@Soulfly3 - I am now the proud owner of season tickets in section 349!  Let me know if you have any friends/family needing tickets next season since I'm in Chicago and will not go to many games. I think me and my son will road trip for at least one game, however.  Go Browns! I'm still a Bear fan but Browns are my next favorite team.

 
Bobcat10 said:
It's amazing Hue (and maybe Haley, but end of day the buck falls on Hue and I think this was part of the discord), being a QB whisperer and all, didn't start giving Baker more reps and a legit shot at starting earlier in the camp/preseason.  I also wonder how much Buddy Boy had to do with this because he's the one who spent a 3rd on Taylor.  

Sure, hindsight is 20-20 and all that, but it's a very fair criticism considering Hue was the coach and was at all the practices, film sessions, etc....things that we are not privy to, although did see some insight during HK.  Seems to easily be Hue's biggest blunder of everything he stunk at or said....and most of us probably came to this conclusion weeks ago.
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This is what frustrates me the most, the kid didn't just start zipping the rock like that in game 4 when he took over the team. He did it all throughout preseason & training camp. His game play is so much better than what they had on the field how does a field full of coaches and advisors all agree to say nope, kid's gonna sit come hell or high water. And i don't discount your comment about Dorsey, I think that is absolutely a real possibility.

Just frustrating but in the end, no matter how much Hue or Haley or even Dorsey hamstrung the organization with that decision, the right move was made and the ship is heading in the right direction now. VIVA LA BAKER!

 
As a Ravens fan, I am very happy for you guys. While it was nice to pencil in 2 wins (almost) every year, I'd much rather have another fun and winning team to face in the division. With the Bengals seemingly facing a steep decline, and questions swirling in both Pittsburgh and Baltimore, I think the Browns are a definite contender for the Division next year.

Even this year, stranger things have happened .... Though it's hard to imagine the Bengals betting Pittsburgh if that's a must-win for the Steelers. My thought is that the Steelers lose their next two, the Ravens go 1-1, and then Baltimore needs to beat the Browns in Week 17 to win the Division. And I could see that game going either way.

 
beer 30 said:
This is what frustrates me the most, the kid didn't just start zipping the rock like that in game 4 when he took over the team. He did it all throughout preseason & training camp. His game play is so much better than what they had on the field how does a field full of coaches and advisors all agree to say nope, kid's gonna sit come hell or high water. And i don't discount your comment about Dorsey, I think that is absolutely a real possibility.

Just frustrating but in the end, no matter how much Hue or Haley or even Dorsey hamstrung the organization with that decision, the right move was made and the ship is heading in the right direction now. VIVA LA BAKER!
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Dorsey doesn't decide who plays on gameday.  He gave the chefs the ingredients.  It was up to them how to use them.  They asked for a useful veteran in the room.  Dorsey knowing he couldn't get a quality free agent traded for one.  It's up to the coaches to then evaluate July and August and make the decisions that are in the best interest of the team.  Unfortunately Coach Cancer decided in March that Tyrod was the guy and later cited optics for why no audible was ever considered.  Is that fact?  Beats me, can't believe a word that ever comes of his mouth.  Can only evaluate his actions.  But his actions don't dispute that story.  Like @Bobcat10 said, Baker wasn't getting reps with the ones.  The decision was made and we're going forward no matter what evidence may or may not lead us on a different course.  Which almost poetically describes Captain Sabotage's reign of error here.  Promote him, Cincy.

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
@Soulfly3 - I am now the proud owner of season tickets in section 349!  Let me know if you have any friends/family needing tickets next season since I'm in Chicago and will not go to many games. I think me and my son will road trip for at least one game, however.  Go Browns! I'm still a Bear fan but Browns are my next favorite team.
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Ill definitely be needing a pair next season

 
It wouldn't be a Browns thread in December if we weren't talking about the draft.  Now to be fair, with the way this team is playing, I'm happy to say I have not looked at any QB prospects for the 2019 draft!  We have found our QB1 folks, and I am simply enjoying every game and how this team is playing to care about next year too much.

With that said, if the Draft were to be held today, the Browns would be picking 13th overall.  If they can finish out 3-0, then they could fall down to the late teens in picks (16-18).  This is fantastic news to me!  I have no idea who would be available between 13-20, and I do not care right now.  Just thought I'd share for those who are into the draft process.

Pick Current record Wk15 Wk16 Wk17
1 San Francisco (3-10) SEA CHI @LAR
2 Arizona (3-10) @ATL LAR @SEA
3 Oakland (3-10) @CIN DEN @KC
4 Atlanta (4-9) ARI @CAR @TB
5 New York Jets (4-9) HOU GB @NE
6 Buffalo (4-9) DEN @NE MIA
7 Jacksonville (4-9) WSH @MIA @HOU
8 Tampa Bay (5-8) @BAL @DAL ATL
9 Detroit (5-8) @BUF MIN @GB
10 New York Giants (5-8) TEN @IND DAL
11 Cincinnati (5-8) OAK @CLE @PIT
12 Green Bay (5-7-1) @CHI @NYJ DET
13 Cleveland (5-7-1) @DEN CIN @BAL
14 Washington (6-7) @JAX @TEN PHI
15 Carolina (6-7) NO ATL @NO
16 Philadelphia (6-7) @LAR HOU @WSH
17 Denver (6-7) CLE @OAK LAC
18 Miami (7-6) @MIN JAX @BUF
19 Indianapolis (7-6)  DAL NYG @TEN
20 Tennessee (7-6) @NYG WSH IND
21 Minnesota (6-6-1) MIA @DET CHI
22 Baltimore (7-6) TB @LAC CLE
23 Pittsburgh (7-5-1) NE @NO CIN
24 Dallas (8-5) @IND TB @NYG
25 Seattle (8-5) @SF KC ARI
26 Chicago (9-4)  GB @SF @MIN
27 Houston (10-3) @NYJ @PHI JAX
28 LA Chargers (10-3) @KC BAL @DEN
29 New England (9-4) @PIT BUF NYJ
30 New Orleans (11-2) @CAR PIT CAR
31 Kansas City (11-2) LAC @SEA OAK
32 Los Angeles Rams (11-2) PHI @ARI SF


These last few weeks are going to be fun.  There will be a fight for the #1 pick that we will not be a part of, for the first time in many years.  Finally...so this is what rooting for a winning NFL team feels like?!?!  I kind of like it.   :thumbup:

 
Peak said:
It wouldn't be a Browns thread in December if we weren't talking about the draft.  Now to be fair, with the way this team is playing, I'm happy to say I have not looked at any QB prospects for the 2019 draft!  We have found our QB1 folks, and I am simply enjoying every game and how this team is playing to care about next year too much.

With that said, if the Draft were to be held today, the Browns would be picking 13th overall.  If they can finish out 3-0, then they could fall down to the late teens in picks (16-18).  This is fantastic news to me!  I have no idea who would be available between 13-20, and I do not care right now.  Just thought I'd share for those who are into the draft proces

These last few weeks are going to be fun.  There will be a fight for the #1 pick that we will not be a part of, for the first time in many years.  Finally...so this is what rooting for a winning NFL team feels like?!?!  I kind of like it.   :thumbup:
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Its great to have a 'competitive', not winning yet team BUT...

We've lost to every top team we've faced this season and Baker owns a 1-4 road record which tells us what?

We might be competitive but we're not a winning team and we have trouble with the top teams and we haven't shown that we can consistently win on the road which basically tells us.

We have a few holes yet to fill and the best way to fill those holes is in the draft.

This draft is deep on the D-Line and we could really use a starting DT who can collapse the pocket and rush the passer.

We can use a playmaker at the WR position and can always use depth at DB and O-Line and the last two years we've had injuries at the LB position we we could use a solid backup and we have one of the worst special team units in the league.

Bottom line.  We should all be interested in next year's draft because we need a few more pieces to beat the top teams and just break even on the road and to hurt the opposition instead of ourselves with special team play because we've all seen special teams hurt us and cost us this year.

 
While there is no surprise with that post (timing, way it was written, full of...), I don't think he meant Baker is 1-4 on the road against top teams.  

I'm just waiting for the BS to update me on how Des has been grading out since we stopped getting them around week 3.

 
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Bobcat10 said:
I'm just waiting for the BS to update me on how Des has been grading out since we stopped getting them around week 3.
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:lmao:

Off topic, but - the way these last few weeks have played out...it's time to update Hue's record to 2*-36-1.  Because that Jets win was all Baker.  The coaches didn't get a chance to apply their week long poison yet.  That was all instincts with no reps.  And we've been seeing that same swagger since those diseases were finally flushed away.  But with, you know...actual coaching.

 
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MAC_32 said:
We've lost to the two top teams we've played and Baker owns a 1-1 road record.
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We've  played 7 teams with winning records and won 1 game.

Baker Mayfield has started 10 games, 5 home and 5 road games.

His record at home is 3 and 2.  His road record is 1 and 4.

Since Hayley was fired back on October 29th he's played 5 games and two teams had winning records.  We didn't win either of those games.

No matter what you say,  his record on the road is 1-4.  

 
Bracie Smathers said:
We've  played 7 teams with winning records and won 1 game.

Baker Mayfield has started 10 games, 5 home and 5 road games.

His record at home is 3 and 2.  His road record is 1 and 4.

Since Hayley was fired back on October 29th he's played 5 games and two teams had winning records.  We didn't win either of those games.

No matter what you say,  his record on the road is 1-4.  
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Hi, Bracie

 
amnesiac said:
i thought firing Hue messed up the continuity?  this must be more complicated than i thought.  
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If it helps, I located a fairly scientific study done in regards to how continuity can be achieved within Cleveland.

Living with a chronic disease like Hue Dysfunction Failure (HDF) results in disruptions, losses, and setbacks in the participants’ daily lives that affect health and well-being of a team.

By using grounded theory method, we illuminate whether player’s/coach’s with HDF experience discontinuity in football life and, if so, what helps them to preserve and strengthen continuity in their daily lives. Thirteen individual interviews and one group interview with five participants, aged 22 to 28 years, were carried out. Through data collection and data analysis, we constructed three concepts that make up a model illustrating the participants’ experiences in daily life in relation to corporeality, temporality, and identity: experiences of discontinuity, recapturing approaches, and reconciliation.

The first concept, experiences of discontinuity, was constructed from the following categories: the alienated body, the disrupted time, and the threatened self. This was mainly seen in the younger player’s who have never been associated with such a disease as HDF until they joined the Cleveland Browns in 2017.  For them, this pain is all they know and it has taken a large toll on their lives to date.

The second concept, recapturing approaches, consists of categories with continuity creative constructions: repossessing the body, maintaining a façade, seizing the day, restoring the balance of time, and preserving self. These actions are intended to overcome problems and master changes in order to maintain balance in daily life through constructions that recreate normality and predictability. Many in Cleveland today are in the process of maneuvering through these stages.  As seen through videographic evidence every Sunday, many player’s/coach’s having suffered with HDF and now beginning to see what life can be like once this affliction is cured.

The third concept, reconciliation, was constructed from three categories: feel normal, set to adjust, and be positioned. These categories describe how the player’s/coach’s minimize their experiences of discontinuity by recapturing approaches in order to reconcile with various changes and maintain continuity in daily life. This may come in many forms, including but not limited to, sustaining a winning record or introduction to a new support system of coach’s not afflicted with HDF.

Our findings provide a fresh perspective on continuity that may contribute to the development of significant interventions in continuity of care for persons with HDF. However, continuity requires that those in the Browns organization support each player’s/coach’s ability to manage change, reorientation, and adjustment to the new situation in order to make it easier for the patient to create and continue living their daily lives as they desire, in a winning atmosphere.
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amnesiac said:
i thought firing Hue messed up the continuity?  this must be more complicated than i thought.  
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Yeah.  I can see that, but IMO they are still running the same offense and defense with the same terminology.  They are building on the same foundation.  

ETA:  They are looking good and I concede that the coaching changes, at a minimum, brought "a breath of fresh air".  Kitchens has brought innovation to the offense.  (Additional keys include a new LT and RB.  On defense, it's great to have Schobert back calling signals!)  Enjoying these new Browns!!!

 
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