The Man With No Name
Footballguy
The Giants were able to get Beckham the ball often even though they only had 1 winning season with him. The Browns can't get him the ball for some reason. And that reason is Kitchens/Monken
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Cleveland Browns (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter wadegarrett
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Yep - I refused to put a number to it because I think it's silly in this league, but if you told me we'd be blown out twice, lose two games featuring 3rd string QB's, be held under 20 points (at least) seven times, the league's worst red zone offense, Mayfield would have 9 INT's in the first 6 games, Beckham would only have 2 TD's, and our star DE would be suspended for the season for something that happened between the lines I'd have gone cross eyed.
rockaction
Footballguy
If I were a fan, I can't see how I wouldn't be worried right now about what's going on with all of 6'1", 2 something of one of the Browns.
Mayfield has just looked bad against his admittedly brutal schedule (which can only really be talked about in retrospect and after normalization of stats done by groups like Football Outsiders, etc.). But it's not the numbers that are lying. He aesthetically doesn't look ready to play whenever he creates any athletic motion. It's poor.
My both awe and complete repulsion over Good Mayfield/Bad Mayfield should be noted whenever anyone thinks I'm looking just to bash him. I'm really not - it's been a step back for him this year.
Mayfield has just looked bad against his admittedly brutal schedule (which can only really be talked about in retrospect and after normalization of stats done by groups like Football Outsiders, etc.). But it's not the numbers that are lying. He aesthetically doesn't look ready to play whenever he creates any athletic motion. It's poor.
My both awe and complete repulsion over Good Mayfield/Bad Mayfield should be noted whenever anyone thinks I'm looking just to bash him. I'm really not - it's been a step back for him this year.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
I'm not worried. He was awful at the beginning of the season, tough schedule or not. He didn't prepare properly for the season. He's made corrections and played substantially better of late, but when you regress as much as he did you're not going to suddenly revert back to the previous developmental curve. It's a slow crawl back up. He's on the way back up and given how he's approached every other offseason in his career I have no reason to expect a repeat of this last one. I think he starts off next season closer to where he finished the last one - and where I think he'll finish in this one.
daveR
Footballguy
Bracie, review the second half play-by-play, taking note of the score and down & distance. THEN, tell me that they were barely used.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
No thanks. We kicked the FG to get within a TD and got the interception with plenty of time to score. Make your case why Hue//err Freddie didn't use his best weapons.
Last year Dorsey gave the offense Baker and Nick Chubb but Hue and Haley decided to use Carlos Hyde over Nick Chubb and then after Dorsey traded Hyde Haley still refused to use Nick even though it was obvious who should have been starting. Exit Hue AND Haley.
This year the best weapons are Nick and Kareem and Landry. That screams personnel beginning with 2, as in 21 (two RBs and 1 TE with 2 WRs) or 22 (2 RBs 2 TEs 1 WR) or 20 (2 RBs O TEs and 3 WRs). We lack depth at WR and don't have great TEs but we have great RBs and one can be split wide or used in the slot and has shown he's more than just an effective lead blocker.
Last year when Hue and Haley got fired Kitchens found his niche as an OC and Williams took control as the HC. He is the only Browns HC, this version with a winning record. Gregg did ok. He had LESS talent than Freddie and did ok and had a winning record.
But this year's record is due to Dorsey? What the what? Now you assign me homework to make some argument about how logical Kitchens has been using proper personnel?
I have never been interested in arguments about one or two specific plays that people engage in after a loss. I don't know who went off and spent reams and reams of pages arguing over some game script but it was dreadfully boring. So no. Not interested going down that road.
We have one of the most talented offensive skill position rosters in the league yet rank 18 in offensive yards and 21st in points scored and can't score in the RZ to save our lives. We just lost to a team with a Duck at QB and 2nd string WRs and a 3rd string RB, without their Pro Bowl C and they scored 20 points. Maybe if Freddie had Duck and Pittsburgh's 2nd string WRs and 3rd string RB then ... or if Tomlin and his OC had Baker and Odell and Landry and Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt he would not have been able to produce 20 points.
beer 30
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
DiannaVerified account @diannaESPN
Spoke to Steeler players about Mike Tomlin. Players on defense pointed to the adjustments made at half. They said he “straight up went high school football coach and drew up how they were going to defend Cleveland “ since they Browns showing a different look. “He saved the game”
2:06 PM - 1 Dec 2019
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DiannaVerified account @diannaESPN Dec 1
I waited for Coach Tomlin after the locker room closed to ask him about these adjustments and what his player said about him...he wouldn’t tell me anything except he’s got great, great players. He smiled when I told him they said he saved the game.
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Spoke to Steeler players about Mike Tomlin. Players on defense pointed to the adjustments made at half. They said he “straight up went high school football coach and drew up how they were going to defend Cleveland “ since they Browns showing a different look. “He saved the game”
2:06 PM - 1 Dec 2019
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DiannaVerified account @diannaESPN Dec 1
I waited for Coach Tomlin after the locker room closed to ask him about these adjustments and what his player said about him...he wouldn’t tell me anything except he’s got great, great players. He smiled when I told him they said he saved the game.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
I think there may be some weight to this argument. Also with the lack of play action. The rest of the criticisms don't make a whole lot of sense once applied to what's happening in the actual games though.
Peak
Footballguy
I don't see Dorsey pulling the trigger on FK unless he goes 1-3 or 0-4. Dorsey knew going into this season he'll be dealing with a 1st time HC. There's going to be a learning curve. I don't think anyone expected this big of a learning curve. I think if FK had a seasoned OC (or ex-HC type of Assistant), his learning curve would've been shorter. (No, I don't count Wilks as that seasoned ex-HC type). When the season is over, I expect to see Monken shown the door and replaced with someone more seasoned. I think FK needs that Seasoned guy in his ear to help him learn from his mistakes. Someone to take him aside and let him know when he missed something, or why this isn't working. FK is missing that right now and trying to learn on his own. He's in over his head. Last year he had GW to help with that part of the load, leaving FK to call plays and work with Baker. I think FK needs that seasoned OC (ex-HC type) to help FK grow. If that doesn't happen this off-season, I'm not sure we'll see much better than 8-8, 9-7 next year.
daveR
Footballguy
Alright, since you're to lazy to support your own assertions, I'll break it down. Including kick-offs, the Browns had 33 plays. 5 were negative; 4 sacks 1 penalty. 7 were throws to WRs. 5 were kicks. 4 throws went to TEs. 12 plays went to Chubb/Hunt.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Wow. You really wanna do this, ok.
Cleveland Browns had 5 possessions in the 2nd half of the game. All ended on negative passing plays. Even the FG ended after a sack.
First possession after the half:
2nd & 20 at PIT 48
(4:49 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked at CLV 44 for -8 yards (B.Dupree). FUMBLES (B.Dupree) [B.Dupree], RECOVERED by PIT-C.Heyward at CLV 46. C.Heyward to CLV 46 for no gain (W.Teller).
Second possession after the half:
3rd & 7 at CLE 21
(12:58 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked at CLV 20 for -1 yards (C.Sutton).
Third possession after the half:
3rd & 10 at PIT 14
(8:15 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked at PIT 16 for -2 yards (sack split by C.Heyward and B.Dupree).
Fourth possession after the half:
3rd & 10 at PIT 30
(6:28 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked at PIT 38 for -8 yards (J.Hargrave).
Fifth and final possession after the half:
2nd & 5 at CLE 40
(1:06 - 4th) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass deep right intended for J.Landry INTERCEPTED by J.Haden at PIT 38. J.Haden to CLV 46 for 16 yards.
===========================
What can you conclude from the above? Note the only TD scored by the offense was when Chubb and Hunt dominated that possession and Hunt scored the TD.
You wanna blame Dorsey?
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Yeah. I don't want to do this but now lets break it down further shall we since you wanna go there.
First possession final three plays from first down to fourth down negative passing play.
1st & 10 at PIT 38
(5:26 - 3rd) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short right to N.Chubb. Coverage by 55-Bush, Pressure by 98-Williams.
2nd & 10 at PIT 38
(5:25 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short right to J.Landry to PIT 34 for 4 yards (J.Haden). PENALTY on CLV-C.Hubbard, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 38 - No Play.
2nd & 20 at PIT 48
(4:49 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked ... you can look up to see the rest of the play.
Second possession final three plays from first to fourth.
1st & 10 at CLE 18
(13:42 - 4th) (Shotgun) N.Chubb left guard to CLV 21 for 3 yards (T.Alualu, J.Hargrave).
2nd & 7 at CLE 21
(13:04 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short right to D.Harris. Coverage by 55-Bush.
3rd & 7 at CLE 21
(12:58 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked ... See above...
Third possession yadda yadda yadda...
1st & 10 at PIT 14
(8:27 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short right to D.Harris. Coverage by 34-Te. Edmunds, Pressure by 97-Heyward.
2nd & 10 at PIT 14
(8:19 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short middle to D.Harris.
3rd & 10 at PIT 14
(8:15 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked...
Fourth...
1st & 10 at PIT 30
(7:18 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete deep left to J.Landry (M.Hilton).
2nd & 10 at PIT 30
(7:11 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short right to K.Hunt to PIT 30 for no gain (Te.Edmunds).
3rd & 10 at PIT 30
(6:28 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked ...
Fifth and final possession.
1st & 10 at CLE 35
(1:36 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short left to K.Hunt to CLV 40 for 5 yards (M.Barron).
2nd & 5 at CLE 40
(1:06 - 4th) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass deep right intended for J.Landry INTERCEPTED ...
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Kitchens didn't start at third and long. He dug himself a hole.
daveR
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
daveR
Footballguy
I gotta think so, to some extent. Dorsey added a lot of talent, but it's tough to make the O work behind a patchwork OL. I don't know that it was a reasonable goal to fix everything at once, but he did bring us up to NFL caliber overall. So, yeah, everybody's responsible. Expectations were through the roof.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Again. The GM acquires talent.
The coach, coaches. A HC who insists on being HC/OC is responsible for coaching and play calling so Freddie Kitchens is responsible. The reason why Tomlin smiled and made the comment about Freddie having lots of talented players is because he beat him with less talent, i.e. he is the better coach.
“He can take his’n and beat your’n, or take your’n and beat his’n” (Bum Phillips quote about Chuck Noll)
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
It's like people don't even look at the schedule. I remember thinking that even if they are as good as some think they will be, that first half schedule is so brutal that it might not show up in their record until the second half when the schedule lightens up quite a bit.
Mayfied has been a lot better since their bye week at not turning the ball over, but he's been under 200 passing yards in three of the six games despite having 30+ pass attempts in every game. He is not yet a QB who can carry the offense all by himself and win games, and he doesn't need to be. They need to rely on Chubb and Hunt as much as possible.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
You are absolutely right. Good call.
For the yunguns who aren't aware of Bum, here's a true treat. I knew I always liked Freddie Kitchens. He is the closest thing to Bum Phillips I've seen in the NFL so I am pulling for him.
Go to 2:15 for the Don Shula quote
>>>> Video of Bum Phillips a true NFL  character Chickenwang
Footballguy
Bracie taking some flack in here. Lifetime Browns fan here. I can't stand watching this anemic offense. You can put the blame on Freddie and the OC for the garbage playcalling. You can also put the blame on Baker for not getting rid of the football. Guy has been hesitant all year to throw it past 15 yards. No clue why. Offensive line hasn't been that bad. Route running, development of plays? Something isn't jiving this year.
Why do we have the number 1 leading rusher if the line is so bad? Hunt looks awesome. I'd have both backs in on every single play. Run run run the football right down the field like Duce Staley used to rumble down the field. Back and forth, Chubb, Hunt, Chubb, etc. And let them have a lead blocker. This team needs a fullback. What comes off a great running game? Play action. Why don't we see more PC? Cuz Freddie is a dip####.
To me, this team needs Gregg williams back. Only for the accountability and discipline. Comes down to respect. Quit the showboating, letting everyone know you got a first down BS. Quit the overdramatic celebrations and get your ### back to the huddle. Fall starts? Offside jumps from Myles? Cheap head shots like Randall? Bench these bastards. Don't wear the correct shoes? If you have the "all about you " attitude then find a new team.
Pound the football. Playaction to your super star WRs. Game over
Why do we have the number 1 leading rusher if the line is so bad? Hunt looks awesome. I'd have both backs in on every single play. Run run run the football right down the field like Duce Staley used to rumble down the field. Back and forth, Chubb, Hunt, Chubb, etc. And let them have a lead blocker. This team needs a fullback. What comes off a great running game? Play action. Why don't we see more PC? Cuz Freddie is a dip####.
To me, this team needs Gregg williams back. Only for the accountability and discipline. Comes down to respect. Quit the showboating, letting everyone know you got a first down BS. Quit the overdramatic celebrations and get your ### back to the huddle. Fall starts? Offside jumps from Myles? Cheap head shots like Randall? Bench these bastards. Don't wear the correct shoes? If you have the "all about you " attitude then find a new team.
Pound the football. Playaction to your super star WRs. Game over
Bobcat10
Footballguy
OLine, as a unit, can't pass block for crap. Mostly because the tackles are massive holes on this team. I think most of the time when people are tearing this unit apart, they're mostly referring to pass pro.Chickenwang said:
I've been all about the rest of what you're preaching here. I don't think Bracie and I have been on the same page either for half a decade. Once Hunt came back, got his legs and eased in a bit (which was pretty quick), we should have been running even more. Hunt's carries are 4-6-8-7 since returning. That includes a 3 game winning streak and another game we should have controlled with 40+ carries especially after getting up 10-0.
rockaction
Footballguy
What were Landry and Beckham doing being all over each others' space last week? I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing that in the highlights.
This a talented but wildly errant team.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
In the preseason OBJ missed three games with a hip pointer.
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Dan Graziano✔@DanGrazianoESPN
Browns WR Odell Beckham Jr. sat out the team portion of practice Wednesday with what I am told is a hip pointer. Team is not concerned about a long-term absence. Odell attended practice and took part in individual drills. Possible he gets back in team stuff tomorrow, not certain.
5:22 PM - Aug 14, 2019
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A hip pointer is a deep bruise to the ridge of bone on the upper outside of your hip, called the iliac crest. It’s often a result of a direct blow to the hip or a hard fall.
Hip pointer symptoms include pain and tenderness. Recovery from the injury usually involves taking a break from activity until it heals...
...shocking concerns leading up to camp to ESPN’s Josina Anderson.
“While OBJ told me he is feeling really good coming into this year — and I want to emphasis he said he was feeling really good — he also told me this quote which I thought was interesting,” Anderson said, before reading off the quote. “‘Getting through this year is something I’m going to have to work on every day because my left leg is doing all the work compared to my right. That’s why I’ve had all those injuries on the right side.”‘...
...“Odell told me his goal coming into training camp is obviously to get better with the team, but from his body standpoint, to focus on achieving more balance with his lower body and to attain an equilibrium,” Anderson said.
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I don't know if the sports hernia is a compensatory injury or not but he is dealing with that and has put off surgery till the offseason to deal with that.
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Browns WR Odell Beckham playing through sports hernia
The FO knows what he's been dealing with.
We should see a completely different OBJ next year IMHO.
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Dan Graziano✔@DanGrazianoESPN
Browns WR Odell Beckham Jr. sat out the team portion of practice Wednesday with what I am told is a hip pointer. Team is not concerned about a long-term absence. Odell attended practice and took part in individual drills. Possible he gets back in team stuff tomorrow, not certain.
5:22 PM - Aug 14, 2019
------------------------------------
A hip pointer is a deep bruise to the ridge of bone on the upper outside of your hip, called the iliac crest. It’s often a result of a direct blow to the hip or a hard fall.
Hip pointer symptoms include pain and tenderness. Recovery from the injury usually involves taking a break from activity until it heals...
...shocking concerns leading up to camp to ESPN’s Josina Anderson.
“While OBJ told me he is feeling really good coming into this year — and I want to emphasis he said he was feeling really good — he also told me this quote which I thought was interesting,” Anderson said, before reading off the quote. “‘Getting through this year is something I’m going to have to work on every day because my left leg is doing all the work compared to my right. That’s why I’ve had all those injuries on the right side.”‘...
...“Odell told me his goal coming into training camp is obviously to get better with the team, but from his body standpoint, to focus on achieving more balance with his lower body and to attain an equilibrium,” Anderson said.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know if the sports hernia is a compensatory injury or not but he is dealing with that and has put off surgery till the offseason to deal with that.
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Browns WR Odell Beckham playing through sports hernia
Makes sense why Baker and OBJ connection never really materialized. We only caught a fleeting glimpse.
The FO knows what he's been dealing with.
We should see a completely different OBJ next year IMHO.
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
Glazer: Odell has asked to be traded
According to NFL insider Jay Glazer, Beckham has reached out to coaches and players saying that he wants to be traded from the Browns.
According to NFL insider Jay Glazer, Beckham has reached out to coaches and players saying that he wants to be traded from the Browns.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Chickenwang
Footballguy
4 carries to browns RB in first half. Someone please make a change
amnesiac
beer is good
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Didn’t see the game today, saw Njoku’s terrible stat line which was expected, but can anyone tell me a rough percentage of snaps he played today?
Debating him next week, although idk if Kitchens is smart enough to know AZ gets annihilated by tight ends.
TIA
Debating him next week, although idk if Kitchens is smart enough to know AZ gets annihilated by tight ends.
TIA
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I saw the stat line for Chubb at half, was shocked!! Had to check if he was hurt. Guy is like a stronger faster Marshawn Lynch, feed him the ####### ball and good things will happen!
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Cowboys and Browns are similar teams. The offenses have talented players but don't feel like they are playing well. Coaching and play calling are weak.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Worst rush defense in the league belongs to?
- >>> NFL Team Total Defense Stats 2019 RUSHING
- >>>> NFL Player Rushing Stats 2019 Rushing Stats - All NFL RK NAME
Bill Belichick explains how advice from Sun Tzu's 'The Art of War' helped build the Patriots dynasty Tyler Lauletta Dec 5, 2019,
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I've been reading articles on their totally inept offensive game plans and play calling. Makes me wonder what Jon Kitna would say if he was there at the start of the season. Probably what he said to the idiots in Detroit. “He left the meeting room one day, and he told the coaches and the whole team that we’re not gonna win a game if we go into the season with [this] system. They lost 'em all.
Fire em all, pay Norv Turner whatever he wants to be the OC and bring in some HC that can work with Norv. Enough of this stupid gimmick BS and so called young, green as grass with stupid ideas, HCs. Norv has a backup outperforming Baker and outside of McCaffrey he has weaker weapons.
Fire em all, pay Norv Turner whatever he wants to be the OC and bring in some HC that can work with Norv. Enough of this stupid gimmick BS and so called young, green as grass with stupid ideas, HCs. Norv has a backup outperforming Baker and outside of McCaffrey he has weaker weapons.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Like I said last week, we're entering agenda pushing season. There's going to be leaks. There will probably be a flood after the next loss, but there will still be more between now and then. Where does each leak stem from? and why is that source pushing it out there? Those are the questions to ask yourselves. The only thing I didn't like about post game yesterday is the Browns making Baker walk back what he said in the presser.Hey we won!!!!
This team hates ####### prosperity, just can not have a good solid victory without some kind of bull#### controversy. And don't get me wrong, it was far from a good solid win but that's another discussion.
Yesterday was a frustrating watch, but I think we all need to remind ourselves who is actually playing on defense right now. We had just 52 snaps on offense and we were sitting on only 39 going into the final drive.
MAC_32
Footballguy
This kept getting hammered away at yesterday, but there's some key context missing here. The Bungles ineptness defending the run is inflated by their first 5 games. Since then?
Ingram: 13-52
Fournette: 29-131
Gurley: 10-44
Ingram: 9-34
Jacobs: 23-112
Snell: 21-98
Bell: 10-32
Also, on a per play basis (and sacks + turnovers) the Bungles pass defense is 31st in the league. Over that same stretch of games:
Andrews: 6-99
Westbrook: 6-103
Kupp 7-220
Brown: 4-80
Williams: 4-82
Washington: 3-98
Anderson: 7-101
Point is: the Bungles are just bad on defense. Run or pass. Should the Browns have leaned on the run more early? I think so, but the vitriol about it as it was happening while not surprising is laced in hyperbole.
The only sequence that pissed me off was when we got the ball at midfield late in the 2nd quarter the immediately starting trying deep shots. That habit must get beaten out of Freddie if he's back next year. The second drive also sucked, but I think that was on Baker; not the coaches. I thought the offense played well otherwise.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
They struggled when we ran in the second half.
Baker is making questionable decisions when he's got a wide open RB with a head of steam going vertical but makes the decision to try for the longer pattern with the WR going out of bounds. He's missing the backside of most plays as he puts on blinders.
Many reasons to lean on the strength of the run game even before we put on the pads
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It's not the first time Belichick has discussed Sun Tzu as an inspiration.
In 2017, Belichick told CNBC's Suzy Welch that the Patriots had one sign in the team's locker room a quote from Sun Tzu that read: "Every battle is won before it is fought."
It's a fitting mantra for the franchise, given the team's reputation for preparedness, and ability to adjust on the fly.
beer 30
Footballguy
Along with the OL can not or refuses to pass block. Everything points to running the ball on this team and the HC/OC refuse to. I think that's where the frustration comes from. Of course they run but it's the lack of situational awareness that compounds the problem. When logic dictates you run the ball, we are chucking it deep. Doesn't make any sense.
The unwillingness to dump off to one of our RB's becomes more & more painful every week as we continue to see both of them shine every time they touch the ball. Watch Tom Brady, he is the king of the dump off. I think part of it Baker wanting to hit the home run every play, part of it is coaches/management saying we have Jarvis Landry and Odell Beckem Jr. - get them the ball and part of it is a coach trying to figure it out & is a little pass happy. How many carries did Chubb have yesterday? 15? and he had what? 106 yards rushing? C'mon man
Dorsey traded away Hyde last year when the coach wouldn't play Chubb. I gotta think at some point he makes a call to Freddie and strongly recommends running the football more than 24 times split between the two RB's.
Baker has regressed, his OL was bad last year but got better. His OL this year is bad and getting worse. I think leaning more on the run, taking some pressure off the QB and beating people up is the way to go but, and it's just speculation on my part, Baker is playing hurt. Not hurt enough to not play and frankly we don't have another option anyhow but there is something off with him this year. And lets be real, he needs to commit to an offseason where the focus is football.
daveR
Footballguy
I don't have the first clue (shaddup!) why they chose to pass-first in the first half, but Jim Donovan called it during his pre-game show.
Agree that the O-line is worse than last year in pass protection. What scares me just as much is the lack of pass rush by our DL. Zero vs the Bengals!
Agree that the O-line is worse than last year in pass protection. What scares me just as much is the lack of pass rush by our DL. Zero vs the Bengals!
MAC_32
Footballguy
I mean, did you see who is playing? It's literally just Chad Thomas and Bryan Cox at end, the latter of which was signed off the street less than a month ago.
Maybe they should quit designing stupid plays, (not that they are the only one), that get 0-2 yards max. Baltimore drew up one of the dumbest yet. Lamar Jackson as the only receiver and a direct snap to Ingram. Of course it went no where even with their top 5 OL. WTH is Ingram gonna do? Pass it? Just flat out dumb.
The 'trickery' is a miserable failure. Bill Walsh has got to be rolling over in his grave. Give me a quick slant and like you said, dump offs to the RB, when you have a bad OL. Once that starts going, you free up deeper passes. You don't free up deeper passes when you run some stupid play where the QB flips it to a WR running sideways and gets 2 yards. The other team is just laughing at you.
beer 30
Footballguy
Freddie certainly has his fair share of 'over thinking it' plays. They ran a screen to Landry that worked perfectly but man it took forever to develop. Any team not named Cincinnati and I think that play gets blown up before before you get in a 3 count. I don't recall any other during the game but I'm sure there were others.
The most frustrating thing, to me, is we are going against one of the worst teams in the league. You have the ability to run on every single team in the league. No one has shut down Chubb let alone Chubb/Hunt. Why not exert dominance from the get go, run a long, sustained, heavy run drive down their throat and have your way with them? Instead we #### around and up until pretty late in the game, leave the door open for them to win. Just don't get it.
I said last week we will lose one to Cincy, I really thought I jinxed them yesterday.
MAC_32
Footballguy
There are points being made I agree with, but there are things that keep getting cited that lack context that matters. Kinda like the Cincy run d thing I mentioned earlier.
*You mention Chubb only getting 15 carries...but that was almost a third of the snaps.
*You insinuate the overall lack of usage from the RB's, but they were the intended ball carrier/target on 28 of the 51 plays.
*There were eight plays of 3rd & 5 or longer, the team was 5-8 w/one td and one int in those situations without using Chubb/Hunt on any of them (I'm not counting the last one against Chubb for what I think should be obvious reasons)
*So, in non third and long's Chubb/Hunt were the intended ball carrier/target on 27 of those 42 plays. And we're complaining about their lack of usage?
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So there's part of me that wishes others would focus more specifically on the types of plays calls or the general situational criticism you threw up there (I agree btw), but then @lod001 brings up that Landry play in New England (again). The play call was fine. You can see how it would work on the back side. The problem with the play is no one can explain what the hell Bitonio was doing on the play. I missed it in real-time, but after someone else mentioned it in here and I went back and watched it again...what. the. hell. So, yeah - if you just watch Baker, Landry, and Guy on that play it looks mind numbingly stupid. But if you look at how Guy was there in the first place it all makes sense. But we criticize Freddie for it.
rockaction
Footballguy
Houston brought a play like that successfully to bear during the New England game. It was Hopkins on a pitch to Watson.
It looked completely stupid, almost got Deshaun killed, but hey, it was a TD from the five so who's complaining?
I can't believe these guys sometimes.
