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wadegarrett

**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****

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3 hours ago, daveR said:

Here's the reasoning...  The modern NFL has dynamic route trees.  Depending on the defense, a receiver is responsible for varying routes.  These routes are supposed to coincide to create opportunities.  When WRs run deep, the underneath routes are open for the TEs & RBs.  That space is also available for WRs to work back to.  It is very hard to make all that work unless the QB has time to throw and they are all on the same page.

Well, in these instances, there is not a single receiver inside he hash marks even remotely close to the 1st down marker. 3 WRs are 20 yards downfield and still running, the RB is way outside if even running a route and who knows where the TE(s) are. they were no where in the picture. It was a wide open middle of the field.

And there is no excuse for 3 WRs at all be running 20 yards downfield on 3rd & 7.

What do the Pats do? Run Edelman right into that open area for a 1st down.

Edited by lod001

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On 11/22/2019 at 11:18 AM, Bracie Smathers said:

I had totally forgotten about this sad story but we're going to need Chris Smith to step up.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Browns notebook: Finding his new normal after girlfriend’s death, Chris Smith prepared to step in for Myles Garrett

Mary Kay Cabot✔@MaryKayCabot

The #Browns have released DE Chris Smith, a league source tells me

9:19 AM - Dec 3, 2019

-----------------------------------

Couldn't get over the loss and it effected him on the field.:sadbanana:

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So...I don't think we're winning all 4 anyway...but, hypothetically speaking - if we win out I think it's highly probable we are a week 17 Pittsburgh loss at Baltimore away from making the playoffs. Again, don't think it's happening, but I was digging around for something to keep me engaged and it's pretty solid. Assuming we lose (at least) one of these I won't watch week 17, but I found what I needed to justify staying locked in. For now...

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1 hour ago, MAC_32 said:

So...I don't think we're winning all 4 anyway...but, hypothetically speaking - if we win out I think it's highly probable we are a week 17 Pittsburgh loss at Baltimore away from making the playoffs. Again, don't think it's happening, but I was digging around for something to keep me engaged and it's pretty solid. Assuming we lose (at least) one of these I won't watch week 17, but I found what I needed to justify staying locked in. For now...

“Soooo, you’re saying there’s a chance!! “

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1 hour ago, MAC_32 said:

So...I don't think we're winning all 4 anyway...but, hypothetically speaking - if we win out I think it's highly probable we are a week 17 Pittsburgh loss at Baltimore away from making the playoffs. Again, don't think it's happening, but I was digging around for something to keep me engaged and it's pretty solid. Assuming we lose (at least) one of these I won't watch week 17, but I found what I needed to justify staying locked in. For now...

I don't think there's a snowballs chance against Baltimore unless something changes dramatically and frankly, I've felt for a long time we are going to drop one to Cincy. It would be such a Cleveland thing to do.

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3 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

I don't think there's a snowballs chance against Baltimore unless something changes dramatically and frankly, I've felt for a long time we are going to drop one to Cincy. It would be such a Cleveland thing to do.

I think we have more than a snowball's chance against the Ravens, but nit picking aside I don't disagree with your general sentiment. I think there's a substantially greater chance of something else embarrassing happening between now and the end of the month than us winning 4 in a row. I was just shocked to see once I went digging that short of Pittsburgh winning week 17 I think 9-7 makes it...and as long as it's not just us and Tennessee at 9-7 then we will win the tiebreaker regardless of the scenario.

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14 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I think we have more than a snowball's chance against the Ravens, but nit picking aside I don't disagree with your general sentiment. I think there's a substantially greater chance of something else embarrassing happening between now and the end of the month than us winning 4 in a row. I was just shocked to see once I went digging that short of Pittsburgh winning week 17 I think 9-7 makes it...and as long as it's not just us and Tennessee at 9-7 then we will win the tiebreaker regardless of the scenario.

I'd love to see it because it would do wonders for an otherwise disappointing season just don't think we can get there from here with the way we've been performing.

The radio heads have been pimping a stat the last few days (speaking of interesting stats) about how Freddie ranks among the other first year coaches. Dude in Green Bay is crushing it but then comes Freddie at 5-7. Doesn't really mean anything but just thought it was interesting.

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8 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

I'd love to see it because it would do wonders for an otherwise disappointing season just don't think we can get there from here with the way we've been performing.

The radio heads have been pimping a stat the last few days (speaking of interesting stats) about how Freddie ranks among the other first year coaches. Dude in Green Bay is crushing it but then comes Freddie at 5-7. Doesn't really mean anything but just thought it was interesting.

All that does for me is confirm what I said about McCarthy earlier this week.

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30 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I think we have more than a snowball's chance against the Ravens, but nit picking aside I don't disagree with your general sentiment. I think there's a substantially greater chance of something else embarrassing happening between now and the end of the month than us winning 4 in a row. I was just shocked to see once I went digging that short of Pittsburgh winning week 17 I think 9-7 makes it...and as long as it's not just us and Tennessee at 9-7 then we will win the tiebreaker regardless of the scenario.

Pittsburgh could still afford to lose to Baltimore as long as they take care of business against the Cardinals, Jets and Bills (at home).  Are these projections assuming Pittsburgh is losing to Buffalo as well?

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3 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

Pittsburgh could still afford to lose to Baltimore as long as they take care of business against the Cardinals, Jets and Bills (at home).  Are these projections assuming Pittsburgh is losing to Buffalo as well?

I think you lose one of those three. Couldn't tell you which one, but I'd be surprised if you win them all. I was wary Duck may be a step up from Rudolph (he clearly was), but asking him to lead the offense to enough points in each to win three in a row? And, yes, I get the team was winning despite Mason sucking. If the defense goes unconscious again they certainly could no matter what Duck does. All that just strikes me as a tall ask when looking at a 3 game sample.

What really opened my eyes was Tennessee's schedule - @ OAK, v. HOU, v. NO, @ HOU. Woof.

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1 minute ago, MAC_32 said:

I think you lose one of those three. Couldn't tell you which one, but I'd be surprised if you win them all. I was wary Duck may be a step up from Rudolph (he clearly was), but asking him to lead the offense to enough points in each to win three in a row? And, yes, I get the team was winning despite Mason sucking. If the defense goes unconscious again they certainly could no matter what Duck does. All that just strikes me as a tall ask when looking at a 3 game sample.

What really opened my eyes was Tennessee's schedule - @ OAK, v. HOU, v. NO, @ HOU. Woof.

Yup you’re probably right.  In all honesty, I don’t really have complete confidence in any of the games that the Steelers have left.  They could lose any and I wouldn’t be surprised.  However, as has been mentioned here, it also wouldn’t completely shock me to see the Bengals beat the Browns.  That’s the state of the NFL.   Very few elite teams.

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13 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I think you lose one of those three. Couldn't tell you which one, but I'd be surprised if you win them all. I was wary Duck may be a step up from Rudolph (he clearly was), but asking him to lead the offense to enough points in each to win three in a row? And, yes, I get the team was winning despite Mason sucking. If the defense goes unconscious again they certainly could no matter what Duck does. All that just strikes me as a tall ask when looking at a 3 game sample.

What really opened my eyes was Tennessee's schedule - @ OAK, v. HOU, v. NO, @ HOU. Woof.

I think Tennessee has a good chance to split with Houston, and maybe sweep them. Tennessee's offense is playing really good right now and should be able to score on Houston's defense.

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Exchange w/Browns fan and Bloom.

---------------------------------------------------------

CO-47‏ @SadFactory 18h18 hours ago

I don't think they did anywhere near enough to try and slow down the rush.

Didn't move Baker out the pocket, not much pa from under center, draws, their screen game sucks...

Sigmund Bloom‏ @SigmundBloom 18h18 hours ago

kitchens is overmatched he's not really even in the game, yup

--------------------------------------------------------

Not much PA as Chubb/Hunt were barely used in 2nd half.  Another puzzling decision.

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i could see them losing to Arizona.  they are awful on the road.  
 

they’ve beaten the Ravens and Jets on the road this season.  Baltimore looks like a complete fluke game now.  

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2 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

i could see them losing to Arizona.  they are awful on the road.  
 

they’ve beaten the Ravens and Jets on the road this season.  Baltimore looks like a complete fluke game now.  

K1 has a hamstring injury.  He was a late add to the injury list last week listed as QUESTIONABLE and had his worst game of the year so he still may be nursing that injury which clearly effected him last Sunday.

We had Myles and Olivier healthy in the first game.  HUGE.

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1 hour ago, amnesiac said:

i could see them losing to Arizona.  they are awful on the road.  
 

they’ve beaten the Ravens and Jets on the road this season.  Baltimore looks like a complete fluke game now.  

As a Ravens fan, I wouldn't say it was a fluke. I'd say the Browns destroyed a very inept defense that has undergone one of the more amazing in-season transformations I've seen. Of their top 6 DBs from the first game, only 2 remain in the same position, with Baltimore adding Marcus Peters (trade) and Jimmy Smith (return from injury) at CB and moving Brandon Carr from starting CB to dime safety. Also their premier run stuffer, Brandon Williams, was an unexpected late scratch that day. 

If you look at the defensive snap counts from Week 4 to what they will likely be in Week 16, the only Ravens who will be in the top 11 for both games will be: Marlon Humphrey, Earl Thomas, Matthew Judon, and maybe Brandon Carr (though he'll be playing a lot less than the 67 snaps he played on Sept. 29). Otherwise, there's been a complete makeover. And a Baltimore defense that in Weeks 2-4 gave up passing totals of 329 (AZ), 363 (KC) and 337 (CLE) has allowed an average of 192 per game since.

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18 minutes ago, The_Man said:

As a Ravens fan, I wouldn't say it was a fluke. I'd say the Browns destroyed a very inept defense that has undergone one of the more amazing in-season transformations I've seen. Of their top 6 DBs from the first game, only 2 remain in the same position, with Baltimore adding Marcus Peters (trade) and Jimmy Smith (return from injury) at CB and moving Brandon Carr from starting CB to dime safety. Also their premier run stuffer, Brandon Williams, was an unexpected late scratch that day. 

If you look at the defensive snap counts from Week 4 to what they will likely be in Week 16, the only Ravens who will be in the top 11 for both games will be: Marlon Humphrey, Earl Thomas, Matthew Judon, and maybe Brandon Carr (though he'll be playing a lot less than the 67 snaps he played on Sept. 29). Otherwise, there's been a complete makeover. And a Baltimore defense that in Weeks 2-4 gave up passing totals of 329 (AZ), 363 (KC) and 337 (CLE) has allowed an average of 192 per game since.

Hence my point yesterday, the Browns don't have a snowballs chance in this game.

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1 hour ago, The_Man said:

As a Ravens fan, I wouldn't say it was a fluke. I'd say the Browns destroyed a very inept defense that has undergone one of the more amazing in-season transformations I've seen. Of their top 6 DBs from the first game, only 2 remain in the same position, with Baltimore adding Marcus Peters (trade) and Jimmy Smith (return from injury) at CB and moving Brandon Carr from starting CB to dime safety. Also their premier run stuffer, Brandon Williams, was an unexpected late scratch that day. 

If you look at the defensive snap counts from Week 4 to what they will likely be in Week 16, the only Ravens who will be in the top 11 for both games will be: Marlon Humphrey, Earl Thomas, Matthew Judon, and maybe Brandon Carr (though he'll be playing a lot less than the 67 snaps he played on Sept. 29). Otherwise, there's been a complete makeover. And a Baltimore defense that in Weeks 2-4 gave up passing totals of 329 (AZ), 363 (KC) and 337 (CLE) has allowed an average of 192 per game since.

I would agree with this.  The Baltimore team you are seeing now is world's apart from the one that lost to Cleveland and nearly lost in OT to Pittsburgh.   

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https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/after-pedestrian-outing-versus-steelers-odell-beckham-jr-seems-destined-for-forgettable-first-season-in-cleveland-film-review.html

 

is Beckham injured?

 

is Kitchens just this inept?

 

what the heck is going on with this team?

 

i just can’t wrap my head around it, and i had relatively modest expectations for this year.  

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9 hours ago, amnesiac said:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/after-pedestrian-outing-versus-steelers-odell-beckham-jr-seems-destined-for-forgettable-first-season-in-cleveland-film-review.html

 

is Beckham injured?

 

is Kitchens just this inept?

 

what the heck is going on with this team?

 

i just can’t wrap my head around it, and i had relatively modest expectations for this year.  

If you had modest expectations for the year I think you're going to get it.   They may not have looked good doing it but they''ll likely finish 7-9 or 8-8 which is about the best you could hope for from a rookie head coach with dubious qualifications.

The hype surrounding the team was off the charts though.  My in-laws are all Browns fans and they were expecting 12-4 at worst, the division title and legitimate shot at the Super Bowl.  A lot of national sportswriters were buying into the hype too.

I think the Browns are going to be in mix for the AFC North for the foreseeable future but they should consider firing Kitchens and getting a better head coach.

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9 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

If you had modest expectations for the year I think you're going to get it.   They may not have looked good doing it but they''ll likely finish 7-9 or 8-8 which is about the best you could hope for from a rookie head coach with dubious qualifications.

The hype surrounding the team was off the charts though.  My in-laws are all Browns fans and they were expecting 12-4 at worst, the division title and legitimate shot at the Super Bowl.  A lot of national sportswriters were buying into the hype too.

I think the Browns are going to be in mix for the AFC North for the foreseeable future but they should consider firing Kitchens and getting a better head coach.

i was expecting for something like 9-7, 8-8.  
 

but the way they’ve gone about getting there has definitely been strange to say the least.  
 

did anyone really think Beckham would only have 2 TDs?

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The Giants were able to get Beckham the ball often even though they only had 1 winning season with him. The Browns can't get him the ball for some reason. And that reason is  Kitchens/Monken

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30 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

but the way they’ve gone about getting there has definitely been strange to say the least.  

Yep - I refused to put a number to it because I think it's silly in this league, but if you told me we'd be blown out twice, lose two games featuring 3rd string QB's, be held under 20 points (at least) seven times, the league's worst red zone offense, Mayfield would have 9 INT's in the first 6 games, Beckham would only have 2 TD's, and our star DE would be suspended for the season for something that happened between the lines I'd have gone cross eyed.

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If I were a fan, I can't see how I wouldn't be worried right now about what's going on with all of 6'1", 2 something of one of the Browns.

Mayfield has just looked bad against his admittedly brutal schedule (which can only really be talked about in retrospect and after normalization of stats done by groups like Football Outsiders, etc.). But it's not the numbers that are lying. He aesthetically doesn't look ready to play whenever he creates any athletic motion. It's poor.   

My both awe and complete repulsion over Good Mayfield/Bad Mayfield should be noted whenever anyone thinks I'm looking just to bash him. I'm really not - it's been a step back for him this year. 

Edited by rockaction

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2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

If I were a fan, I can't see how I wouldn't be worried right now about what's going on with all of 6'1", 2 something of one of the Browns.

Mayfield has just looked bad against his admittedly brutal schedule (which can only really be talked about in retrospect and after normalization of stats done by groups like Football Outsiders, etc.). But it's not the numbers that are lying. He aesthetically doesn't look ready to play whenever he creates any athletic motion. It's poor.   

My both awe and complete repulsion over Good Mayfield/Bad Mayfield should be noted whenever anyone thinks I'm looking just to bash him. I'm really not - it's been a step back for him this year. 

I'm not worried. He was awful at the beginning of the season, tough schedule or not. He didn't prepare properly for the season. He's made corrections and played substantially better of late, but when you regress as much as he did you're not going to suddenly revert back to the previous developmental curve. It's a slow crawl back up. He's on the way back up and given how he's approached every other offseason in his career I have no reason to expect a repeat of this last one. I think he starts off next season closer to where he finished the last one - and where I think he'll finish in this one.

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20 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Exchange w/Browns fan and Bloom.

---------------------------------------------------------

CO-47‏ @SadFactory 18h18 hours ago

I don't think they did anywhere near enough to try and slow down the rush.

Didn't move Baker out the pocket, not much pa from under center, draws, their screen game sucks...

Sigmund Bloom‏ @SigmundBloom 18h18 hours ago

kitchens is overmatched he's not really even in the game, yup

--------------------------------------------------------

Not much PA as Chubb/Hunt were barely used in 2nd half.  Another puzzling decision.

Bracie, review the second half play-by-play, taking note of the score and down & distance.  THEN, tell me that they were barely used.

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2 hours ago, daveR said:

Bracie, review the second half play-by-play, taking note of the score and down & distance.  THEN, tell me that they were barely used.

No thanks.  We kicked the FG to get within a TD and got the interception with plenty of time to score.  Make your case why Hue//err Freddie didn't use his best  weapons.

Last year Dorsey gave the offense Baker and Nick Chubb but Hue and Haley decided to use Carlos Hyde over Nick Chubb and then after Dorsey traded Hyde Haley still refused to use Nick even though it was obvious who should have been starting.  Exit Hue AND Haley.

This year the best weapons are Nick and Kareem and Landry.  That screams personnel beginning with 2, as in 21 (two RBs  and 1 TE with 2 WRs) or 22 (2 RBs 2 TEs 1 WR) or 20 (2 RBs O TEs and 3 WRs).  We lack depth at WR and don't have great TEs but we have great RBs and one can be split wide or used in the slot and has shown he's more than just an effective lead blocker.  

Last year when Hue and  Haley got fired Kitchens found his niche as an OC and Williams took control as the HC.  He is the only Browns HC, this version with a winning record.  Gregg did ok.  He had LESS talent than Freddie and did ok and had a winning record.  

But this year's record is due to Dorsey?   What the what?  Now you assign me homework to make some argument about how logical Kitchens has been using proper personnel?  

I have never been interested in arguments about one or two specific plays that people engage in after a loss.  I don't know who went off and spent reams and reams of pages arguing over some game script but it was dreadfully boring.  So no.  Not interested going down that road.

We have one of the most talented offensive skill position rosters in the league yet rank 18 in offensive yards and 21st in points scored and can't score in the RZ to save our lives.  We just lost to a team with a Duck at QB and 2nd string WRs and a 3rd string RB, without their Pro Bowl C and they scored 20 points.  Maybe if Freddie had Duck and  Pittsburgh's 2nd string WRs and 3rd string RB then ... or if Tomlin and his OC had Baker and Odell and Landry and  Nick Chubb and  Kareem Hunt he would not have been able to produce 20 points.  

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14 hours ago, amnesiac said:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/after-pedestrian-outing-versus-steelers-odell-beckham-jr-seems-destined-for-forgettable-first-season-in-cleveland-film-review.html

is Beckham injured? Has been all season. His hip I think, injured it in pre-season remember? Never healed, he even said then it was going to be a season long thing

is Kitchens just this inept? Possibly but I don't think so

what the heck is going on with this team? Lots of variables, think they listened to the press pre-season, by their own admission didn't put in the off season work they should have, no depth at OL, questionable defensive schemes, first year HC learning on the fly

i just can’t wrap my head around it, and i had relatively modest expectations for this year.  

Just MHO

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Dianna‏Verified account @diannaESPN

Spoke to Steeler players about Mike Tomlin. Players on defense pointed to the adjustments made at half. They said he “straight up went high school football coach and drew up how they were going to defend Cleveland “ since they Browns showing a different look. “He saved the game”

2:06 PM - 1 Dec 2019

----------------------------------

Dianna‏Verified account @diannaESPN Dec 1

I waited for Coach Tomlin after the locker room closed to ask him about these adjustments and what his player said about him...he wouldn’t tell me anything except he’s got great, great players. He smiled when I told him they said he saved the game.

----------------------------------

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Makes you wonder when the Browns keep starting fast and then fade as the game goes on.  

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1 hour ago, amnesiac said:

Makes you wonder when the Browns keep starting fast and then fade as the game goes on.  

I think there may be some weight to this argument. Also with the lack of play action. The rest of the criticisms don't make a whole lot of sense once applied to what's happening in the actual games though. 

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I don't see Dorsey pulling the trigger on FK unless he goes 1-3 or 0-4.   Dorsey knew going into this season he'll be dealing with a 1st time HC.  There's going to be a learning curve.  I don't think anyone expected this big of a learning curve.  I think if FK had a seasoned OC (or ex-HC type of Assistant), his learning curve would've been shorter.  (No, I don't count Wilks as that seasoned ex-HC type).  When the season is over, I expect to see Monken shown the door and replaced with someone more seasoned.  I think FK needs that Seasoned guy in his ear to help him learn from his mistakes.  Someone to take him aside and let him know when he missed something, or why this isn't working.  FK is missing that right now and trying to learn on his own.  He's in over his head.  Last year he had GW to help with that part of the load, leaving FK to call plays and work with Baker.  I think FK needs that seasoned OC (ex-HC type) to help FK grow.  If that doesn't happen this off-season, I'm not sure we'll see much better than 8-8, 9-7 next year.

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5 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

No thanks.  We kicked the FG to get within a TD and got the interception with plenty of time to score.  Make your case why Hue//err Freddie didn't use his best  weapons.

Last year Dorsey gave the offense Baker and Nick Chubb but Hue and Haley decided to use Carlos Hyde over Nick Chubb and then after Dorsey traded Hyde Haley still refused to use Nick even though it was obvious who should have been starting.  Exit Hue AND Haley.

This year the best weapons are Nick and Kareem and Landry.  That screams personnel beginning with 2, as in 21 (two RBs  and 1 TE with 2 WRs) or 22 (2 RBs 2 TEs 1 WR) or 20 (2 RBs O TEs and 3 WRs).  We lack depth at WR and don't have great TEs but we have great RBs and one can be split wide or used in the slot and has shown he's more than just an effective lead blocker.  

Last year when Hue and  Haley got fired Kitchens found his niche as an OC and Williams took control as the HC.  He is the only Browns HC, this version with a winning record.  Gregg did ok.  He had LESS talent than Freddie and did ok and had a winning record.  

But this year's record is due to Dorsey?   What the what?  Now you assign me homework to make some argument about how logical Kitchens has been using proper personnel?  

I have never been interested in arguments about one or two specific plays that people engage in after a loss.  I don't know who went off and spent reams and reams of pages arguing over some game script but it was dreadfully boring.  So no.  Not interested going down that road.

We have one of the most talented offensive skill position rosters in the league yet rank 18 in offensive yards and 21st in points scored and can't score in the RZ to save our lives.  We just lost to a team with a Duck at QB and 2nd string WRs and a 3rd string RB, without their Pro Bowl C and they scored 20 points.  Maybe if Freddie had Duck and  Pittsburgh's 2nd string WRs and 3rd string RB then ... or if Tomlin and his OC had Baker and Odell and Landry and  Nick Chubb and  Kareem Hunt he would not have been able to produce 20 points.  

Alright, since you're to lazy to support your own assertions, I'll break it down.  Including kick-offs, the Browns had 33 plays.  5 were negative; 4 sacks 1 penalty.  7 were throws to WRs.  5 were kicks.  4 throws went to TEs.  12 plays went to Chubb/Hunt.

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37 minutes ago, daveR said:

Alright, since you're to lazy to support your own assertions, I'll break it down.  Including kick-offs, the Browns had 33 plays.  5 were negative; 4 sacks 1 penalty.  7 were throws to WRs.  5 were kicks.  4 throws went to TEs.  12 plays went to Chubb/Hunt.

Wow.  You really wanna do this, ok.

Cleveland Browns had 5 possessions in the 2nd half of the game.  All ended on negative passing plays.  Even the FG ended after a sack.

First possession after the half:

2nd & 20 at PIT 48

(4:49 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked at CLV 44 for -8 yards (B.Dupree). FUMBLES (B.Dupree) [B.Dupree], RECOVERED by PIT-C.Heyward at CLV 46. C.Heyward to CLV 46 for no gain (W.Teller).

Second possession after the half:

3rd & 7 at CLE 21

(12:58 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked at CLV 20 for -1 yards (C.Sutton).

Third possession after the half:

3rd & 10 at PIT 14

(8:15 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked at PIT 16 for -2 yards (sack split by C.Heyward and B.Dupree).

Fourth possession after the half:

3rd & 10 at PIT 30

(6:28 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked at PIT 38 for -8 yards (J.Hargrave).

Fifth and final possession after the half:

2nd & 5 at CLE 40

(1:06 - 4th) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass deep right intended for J.Landry INTERCEPTED by J.Haden at PIT 38. J.Haden to CLV 46 for 16 yards.

===========================

What can you conclude from the above?  Note the only TD scored by the offense was when Chubb and Hunt dominated that possession and Hunt scored the TD.  

You wanna blame Dorsey?  

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So you wanted them to run the ball on 2nd & 20, 3rd & 7, 3rd & 10, 3rd & 10, and 2nd & 5 from their own end of the field with no timeouts and a minute left in the game.

Oooooooooooooo-kay.

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Just now, MAC_32 said:

So you wanted them to run the ball on 2nd & 20, 3rd & 7, 3rd & 10, 3rd & 10, and 2nd & 5 from their own end of the field with no timeouts and a minute left in the game.

Oooooooooooooo-kay.

Yeah.  I don't want to do this but now lets break it down further shall we since you wanna go there.

First possession final three plays from first down to fourth down negative passing play.

1st & 10 at PIT 38

(5:26 - 3rd) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short right to N.Chubb. Coverage by 55-Bush, Pressure by 98-Williams.

2nd & 10 at PIT 38

(5:25 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short right to J.Landry to PIT 34 for 4 yards (J.Haden). PENALTY on CLV-C.Hubbard, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 38 - No Play.

2nd & 20 at PIT 48

(4:49 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked ... you can look up to see the rest of the play.

Second possession final three plays from first to fourth.

1st & 10 at CLE 18

(13:42 - 4th) (Shotgun) N.Chubb left guard to CLV 21 for 3 yards (T.Alualu, J.Hargrave).

2nd & 7 at CLE 21

(13:04 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short right to D.Harris. Coverage by 55-Bush.

3rd & 7 at CLE 21

(12:58 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked ... See above...

Third possession yadda yadda yadda...

1st & 10 at PIT 14

(8:27 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short right to D.Harris. Coverage by 34-Te. Edmunds, Pressure by 97-Heyward.

2nd & 10 at PIT 14

(8:19 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short middle to D.Harris.

3rd & 10 at PIT 14

(8:15 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked...

Fourth...

1st & 10 at PIT 30

(7:18 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete deep left to J.Landry (M.Hilton).

2nd & 10 at PIT 30

(7:11 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short right to K.Hunt to PIT 30 for no gain (Te.Edmunds).

3rd & 10 at PIT 30

(6:28 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked ...

Fifth and final possession.

1st & 10 at CLE 35

(1:36 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short left to K.Hunt to CLV 40 for 5 yards (M.Barron).

2nd & 5 at CLE 40

(1:06 - 4th) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass deep right intended for J.Landry INTERCEPTED ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kitchens didn't start at third and long.  He dug himself a hole.  

 

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The first 2nd & 10 worked. It got called back due to a bs holding penalty.

The 2nd & 7 was dumb.

The second 2nd & 10 was dropped.

Edmonds made a great play on the third 2nd & 10. He doesn't make it and Hunt probably scores.

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26 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Yeah.  I don't want to do this but now lets break it down further shall we since you wanna go there.

First possession final three plays from first down to fourth down negative passing play.

1st & 10 at PIT 38

(5:26 - 3rd) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short right to N.Chubb. Coverage by 55-Bush, Pressure by 98-Williams.

2nd & 10 at PIT 38

(5:25 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short right to J.Landry to PIT 34 for 4 yards (J.Haden). PENALTY on CLV-C.Hubbard, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 38 - No Play.

2nd & 20 at PIT 48

(4:49 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked ... you can look up to see the rest of the play.

Second possession final three plays from first to fourth.

1st & 10 at CLE 18

(13:42 - 4th) (Shotgun) N.Chubb left guard to CLV 21 for 3 yards (T.Alualu, J.Hargrave).

2nd & 7 at CLE 21

(13:04 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short right to D.Harris. Coverage by 55-Bush.

3rd & 7 at CLE 21

(12:58 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked ... See above...

Third possession yadda yadda yadda...

1st & 10 at PIT 14

(8:27 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short right to D.Harris. Coverage by 34-Te. Edmunds, Pressure by 97-Heyward.

2nd & 10 at PIT 14

(8:19 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete short middle to D.Harris.

3rd & 10 at PIT 14

(8:15 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked...

Fourth...

1st & 10 at PIT 30

(7:18 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass incomplete deep left to J.Landry (M.Hilton).

2nd & 10 at PIT 30

(7:11 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short right to K.Hunt to PIT 30 for no gain (Te.Edmunds).

3rd & 10 at PIT 30

(6:28 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield sacked ...

Fifth and final possession.

1st & 10 at CLE 35

(1:36 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass short left to K.Hunt to CLV 40 for 5 yards (M.Barron).

2nd & 5 at CLE 40

(1:06 - 4th) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Mayfield pass deep right intended for J.Landry INTERCEPTED ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kitchens didn't start at third and long.  He dug himself a hole.  

 

Yep.  He stood behind his play sheet & called for sacks & penalties.  

 

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1 minute ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Dorsey responsible?

I gotta think so, to some extent.  Dorsey added a lot of talent, but it's tough to make the O work behind a patchwork OL.  I don't know that it was a reasonable goal to fix everything at once, but he did bring us up to NFL caliber overall.  So, yeah,  everybody's responsible.  Expectations were through the roof.

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6 minutes ago, daveR said:

I gotta think so, to some extent.  Dorsey added a lot of talent, but it's tough to make the O work behind a patchwork OL.  I don't know that it was a reasonable goal to fix everything at once, but he did bring us up to NFL caliber overall.  So, yeah,  everybody's responsible.  Expectations were through the roof.

Again.  The GM acquires talent.

The coach, coaches.  A HC who insists on being HC/OC  is responsible for coaching and play calling so Freddie Kitchens is responsible.  The reason why Tomlin smiled and  made the comment about Freddie having lots of talented  players is because he beat him with less talent, i.e. he is the better coach.

“He can take his’n and beat your’n, or take your’n and beat his’n” (Bum Phillips quote about Chuck Noll) 

Edited by Bracie Smathers

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On 12/6/2019 at 6:41 AM, Godsbrother said:

If you had modest expectations for the year I think you're going to get it.   They may not have looked good doing it but they''ll likely finish 7-9 or 8-8 which is about the best you could hope for from a rookie head coach with dubious qualifications.

The hype surrounding the team was off the charts though.  My in-laws are all Browns fans and they were expecting 12-4 at worst, the division title and legitimate shot at the Super Bowl.  A lot of national sportswriters were buying into the hype too.

I think the Browns are going to be in mix for the AFC North for the foreseeable future but they should consider firing Kitchens and getting a better head coach.

It's like people don't even look at the schedule.  I remember thinking that even if they are as good as some think they will be, that first half schedule is so brutal that it might not show up in their record until the second half when the schedule lightens up quite a bit.  

Mayfied has been a lot better since their bye week at not turning the ball over, but he's been under 200 passing yards in three of the six games despite having 30+ pass attempts in every game.  He is not yet a QB who can carry the offense all by himself and win games, and he doesn't need to be.  They need to rely on Chubb and Hunt as much as possible. 

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2 hours ago, nightmare said:

I believe the Bum Philips quote was about D Shula.

You are absolutely right.   Good call.

For the yunguns who aren't aware of Bum, here's a true treat.  I knew I always liked Freddie Kitchens.  He is the closest thing to Bum Phillips I've seen in the NFL so I am pulling for him.

Go to 2:15 for the Don Shula quote 🎥  >>>>   Video of Bum Phillips a true NFL  character

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Bracie taking some flack in here.   Lifetime Browns fan here.  I can't stand watching this anemic offense.   You can put the blame on Freddie and the OC for the garbage playcalling.  You can also put the blame on Baker for not getting rid of the football.  Guy has been hesitant all year to throw it past 15 yards.  No clue why.  Offensive line hasn't been that bad.  Route running, development of plays?  Something isn't jiving this year.  

Why do we have the number 1 leading rusher if the line is so bad?  Hunt looks awesome.  I'd have both backs in on every single play.  Run run run the football right down the field like Duce Staley used to rumble down the field.  Back and forth, Chubb, Hunt, Chubb, etc.  And let them have a lead blocker.  This team needs a fullback.  What comes off a great running game?  Play action.  Why don't we see more PC?  Cuz Freddie is a dip####.   

To me, this team needs Gregg williams back.  Only for the accountability and discipline.  Comes down to respect.  Quit the showboating, letting everyone know you got a first down BS.  Quit the overdramatic celebrations and get your ### back to the huddle.  Fall starts?  Offside jumps from Myles?  Cheap head shots like Randall? Bench these bastards.  Don't wear the correct shoes?  If you have the "all about you " attitude then find a new team.  

Pound the football.  Playaction to your super star WRs.  Game over 

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5 hours ago, Chickenwang said:

Why do we have the number 1 leading rusher if the line is so bad?  Hunt looks awesome.  I'd have both backs in on every single play.  Run run run the football right down the field like Duce Staley used to rumble down the field.  Back and forth, Chubb, Hunt, Chubb, etc.  And let them have a lead blocker.  This team needs a fullback.  What comes off a great running game?  Play action.  Why don't we see more PC?  Cuz Freddie is a dip####.   

Pound the football.  Playaction to your super star WRs.  Game over 

OLine, as a unit, can't pass block for crap.  Mostly because the tackles are massive holes on this team.  I think most of the time when people are tearing this unit apart, they're mostly referring to pass pro. 

I've been all about the rest of what you're preaching here.  I don't think Bracie and I have been on the same page either for half a decade.  Once Hunt came back, got his legs and eased in a bit (which was pretty quick), we should have been running even more.  Hunt's carries are 4-6-8-7 since returning.  That includes a 3 game winning streak and another game we should have controlled with 40+ carries especially after getting up 10-0.

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On 12/2/2019 at 2:57 PM, lod001 said:

Well, in these instances, there is not a single receiver inside he hash marks even remotely close to the 1st down marker. 3 WRs are 20 yards downfield and still running, the RB is way outside if even running a route and who knows where the TE(s) are. they were no where in the picture. It was a wide open middle of the field.

And there is no excuse for 3 WRs at all be running 20 yards downfield on 3rd & 7.

What do the Pats do? Run Edelman right into that open area for a 1st down.

What were Landry and Beckham doing being all over each others' space last week? I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing that in the highlights.

This a talented but wildly errant team. 

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In the preseason OBJ missed three games with a hip pointer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dan Graziano✔@DanGrazianoESPN

Browns WR Odell Beckham Jr. sat out the team portion of practice Wednesday with what I am told is a hip pointer. Team is not concerned about a long-term absence. Odell attended practice and took part in individual drills. Possible he gets back in team stuff tomorrow, not certain.

5:22 PM - Aug 14, 2019

------------------------------------

A hip pointer is a deep bruise to the ridge of bone on the upper outside of your hip, called the iliac crest. It’s often a result of a direct blow to the hip or a hard fall.

Hip pointer symptoms include pain and tenderness. Recovery from the injury usually involves taking a break from activity until it heals...

...shocking concerns leading up to camp to ESPN’s Josina Anderson.

“While OBJ told me he is feeling really good coming into this year — and I want to emphasis he said he was feeling really good — he also told me this quote which I thought was interesting,” Anderson said, before reading off the quote. “‘Getting through this year is something I’m going to have to work on every day because my left leg is doing all the work compared to my right. That’s why I’ve had all those injuries on the right side.”‘...

...“Odell told me his goal coming into training camp is obviously to get better with the team, but from his body standpoint, to focus on achieving more balance with his lower body and to attain an equilibrium,” Anderson said.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know if the sports hernia is a compensatory injury or not but he is dealing with that and has put off surgery till the offseason to deal with that.

------

Browns WR Odell Beckham playing through sports hernia

Quote

 

...Beckham has been playing through a serious and often painful sports hernia injury, sources say, one that will necessitate surgery in the offseason. He hasn't missed a game yet, but he has been battling.

The ailment robs him of practice time and is one of the main culprits as to why Beckham and quarterback Baker Mayfield aren't always on the same page.

 

Makes sense why Baker and OBJ connection never really materialized.  We only caught a fleeting glimpse.

The FO knows what he's been dealing with.  

We should see a completely different OBJ next year IMHO.

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