Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
wadegarrett

**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****

Recommended Posts

Just now, Chickenwang said:

4 carries to browns RB in first half.  Someone please make a change 

brutal.  they act like they’re running a 2 minute drill the whole game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Learn from mistakes? I think not. Another turnover on opponents side of field turns into 3 passes, negative yardage, and a punt. But I’m sure we can muster something up to defend it in here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn’t see the game today, saw Njoku’s terrible stat line which was expected, but can anyone tell me a rough percentage of snaps he played today?

Debating him next week, although idk if Kitchens is smart enough to know AZ gets annihilated by tight ends. 
 

TIA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Chickenwang said:

4 carries to browns RB in first half.  Someone please make a change 

I saw the stat line for Chubb at half, was shocked!! Had to check if he was hurt. Guy is like a stronger faster Marshawn Lynch, feed him the ####### ball and good things will happen! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Bobcat10 said:

Learn from mistakes? I think not. Another turnover on opponents side of field turns into 3 passes, negative yardage, and a punt. But I’m sure we can muster something up to defend it in here.

Cowboys and Browns are similar teams.   The offenses have talented players but don't feel like they are playing well.   Coaching and play calling are weak.  

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey we won!!!! :unsure:

This team hates ####### prosperity, just can not have a good solid victory without some kind of bull#### controversy. And don't get me wrong, it was far from a good solid win but that's another discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Worst rush defense in the league belongs to? 

Which team has the league leading rusher?

Quote

Cleveland Browns 27, Cincinnati Bengals 19

The Browns defeated the Bengals once they remembered they boast the NFL's leading rusher and were facing the league's worst run defense. After getting only three carries in the first half 

Bill Belichick explains how advice from Sun Tzu's 'The Art of War' helped build the Patriots dynasty Tyler Lauletta Dec 5, 2019,

Quote

...  Belichick explained that his philosophy came back to that of "The Art of War," and in the process, made coaching football sound much easier than it looks.

"You can go all the way back to a few hundred years B.C., Sun Tzu, 'The Art of War.' Attack weaknesses, utilize strengths and figure out what the strengths are on your team. There are some things you have to protect. Find the weaknesses of your opponent, and attack.

You can't win a war by digging a hole. You gotta attack. You have to figure out where you want to attack, how you want to attack, and that changes week to week and game to game."

 

Edited by Bracie Smathers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been reading articles on their totally inept offensive game plans and play calling. Makes me wonder what Jon Kitna would say if he was there at the start of the season. Probably what he said to the idiots in Detroit. “He left the meeting room one day, and he told the coaches and the whole team that we’re not gonna win a game if we go into the season with [this] system. They lost 'em all.

Fire em all, pay Norv Turner whatever he wants to be the OC and bring in some HC that can work with Norv. Enough of this stupid gimmick BS and so called young, green as grass with stupid ideas, HCs. Norv has a backup outperforming Baker and outside of McCaffrey he has weaker weapons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Hey we won!!!! :unsure:

This team hates ####### prosperity, just can not have a good solid victory without some kind of bull#### controversy. And don't get me wrong, it was far from a good solid win but that's another discussion.

Like I said last week, we're entering agenda pushing season. There's going to be leaks. There will probably be a flood after the next loss, but there will still be more between now and then. Where does each leak stem from? and why is that source pushing it out there? Those are the questions to ask yourselves. The only thing I didn't like about post game yesterday is the Browns making Baker walk back what he said in the presser.

Yesterday was a frustrating watch, but I think we all need to remind ourselves who is actually playing on defense right now. We had just 52 snaps on offense and we were sitting on only 39 going into the final drive. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bracie Smathers said:

This kept getting hammered away at yesterday, but there's some key context missing here. The Bungles ineptness defending the run is inflated by their first 5 games. Since then?

Ingram: 13-52

Fournette: 29-131

Gurley: 10-44

Ingram: 9-34

Jacobs: 23-112

Snell: 21-98

Bell: 10-32

Also, on a per play basis (and sacks + turnovers) the Bungles pass defense is 31st in the league. Over that same stretch of games:

Andrews: 6-99

Westbrook: 6-103 

Kupp 7-220

Brown: 4-80

Williams: 4-82

Washington: 3-98

Anderson: 7-101

Point is: the Bungles are just bad on defense. Run or pass. Should the Browns have leaned on the run more early? I think so, but the vitriol about it as it was happening while not surprising is laced in hyperbole.

The only sequence that pissed me off was when we got the ball at midfield late in the 2nd quarter the immediately starting trying deep shots. That habit must get beaten out of Freddie if he's back next year. The second drive also sucked, but I think that was on Baker; not the coaches. I thought the offense played well otherwise.

Edited by MAC_32
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Bobcat10 said:

Learn from mistakes? I think not. Another turnover on opponents side of field turns into 3 passes, negative yardage, and a punt. But I’m sure we can muster something up to defend it in here.

No, that sequence was awful.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, MAC_32 said:

This kept getting hammered away at yesterday, but there's some key context missing here. The Bungles ineptness defending the run is inflated by their first 5 games. Since then?

Ingram: 13-52

Fournette: 29-131

Gurley: 10-44

Ingram: 9-34

Jacobs: 23-112

Snell: 21-98

Bell: 10-32

Also, on a per play basis (and sacks) the Bungles pass defense is 31st in the league. Over that same stretch of games:

Andrews: 6-99

Westbrook: 6-103 

Kupp 7-220

Brown: 4-80

Williams: 4-82

Washington: 3-98

Anderson: 7-101

Point is: the Bungles are just bad on defense. Run or pass. Should the Browns have leaned on the run more early? I think so, but the vitriol about it as it was happening while not surprising is laced in hyperbole.

The only sequence that pissed me off was when we got the ball at midfield late in the 2nd quarter the immediately starting trying deep shots. That habit must get beaten out of Freddie if he's back next year. The second drive also sucked, but I think that was on Baker; not the coaches. I thought the offense played well otherwise.

They struggled when we ran in the second half.

Baker is making questionable decisions when he's got a wide open RB with a head of steam going vertical but makes the decision to try for the longer pattern with the WR going out of bounds.  He's missing the backside of most plays as he puts on blinders.  

Many reasons to lean on the strength of the run game even before we put on the pads

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

It's not the first time Belichick has discussed Sun Tzu as an inspiration.

In 2017, Belichick told CNBC's Suzy Welch that the Patriots had one sign in the team's locker room a quote from Sun Tzu that read: "Every battle is won before it is fought."

It's a fitting mantra for the franchise, given the team's reputation for preparedness, and ability to adjust on the fly.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

Point is: the Bungles are just bad on defense. Run or pass. Should the Browns have leaned on the run more early? I think so, but the vitriol about it as it was happening while not surprising is laced in hyperbole.

The only sequence that pissed me off was when we got the ball at midfield late in the 2nd quarter the immediately starting trying deep shots. That habit must get beaten out of Freddie if he's back next year. The second drive also sucked, but I think that was on Baker; not the coaches. I thought the offense played well otherwise.

Along with the OL can not or refuses to pass block. Everything points to running the ball on this team and the HC/OC refuse to. I think that's where the frustration comes from. Of course they run but it's the lack of situational awareness that compounds the problem. When logic dictates you run the ball, we are chucking it deep. Doesn't make any sense.

1 hour ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Baker is making questionable decisions when he's got a wide open RB with a head of steam going vertical but makes the decision to try for the longer pattern with the WR going out of bounds.  He's missing the backside of most plays as he puts on blinders.  

Many reasons to lean on the strength of the run game even before we put on the pads

The unwillingness to dump off to one of our RB's becomes more & more painful every week as we continue to see both of them shine every time they touch the ball. Watch Tom Brady, he is the king of the dump off. I think part of it Baker wanting to hit the home run every play, part of it is coaches/management saying we have Jarvis Landry and Odell Beckem Jr. - get them the ball and part of it is a coach trying to figure it out & is a little pass happy. How many carries did Chubb have yesterday? 15? and he had what? 106 yards rushing? C'mon man

Dorsey traded away Hyde last year when the coach wouldn't play Chubb. I gotta think at some point he makes a call to Freddie and strongly recommends running the football more than 24 times split between the two RB's.

28 minutes ago, lod001 said:

What happened to stuff like this, specifically at the 1:54 mark. That is not taught, you learn that yourself. Watch 57 bite hard on that fake.

Instead it's this: garbage. 

Baker has regressed, his OL was bad last year but got better. His OL this year is bad and getting worse. I think leaning more on the run, taking some pressure off the QB and beating people up is the way to go but, and it's just speculation on my part, Baker is playing hurt. Not hurt enough to not play and frankly we don't have another option anyhow but there is something off with him this year. And lets be real, he needs to commit to an offseason where the focus is football.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have the first clue (shaddup!) why they chose to pass-first in the first half, but Jim Donovan called it during his pre-game show.   

Agree that the O-line is worse than last year in pass protection.  What scares me just as much is the lack of pass rush by our DL.  Zero vs the Bengals!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, daveR said:

I don't have the first clue (shaddup!) why they chose to pass-first in the first half, but Jim Donovan called it during his pre-game show.   

Agree that the O-line is worse than last year in pass protection.  What scares me just as much is the lack of pass rush by our DL.  Zero vs the Bengals!

I mean, did you see who is playing? It's literally just Chad Thomas and Bryan Cox at end, the latter of which was signed off the street less than a month ago. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, beer 30 said:

Baker has regressed, his OL was bad last year but got better. His OL this year is bad and getting worse. I think leaning more on the run, taking some pressure off the QB and beating people up is the way to go but, and it's just speculation on my part, Baker is playing hurt. Not hurt enough to not play and frankly we don't have another option anyhow but there is something off with him this year. And lets be real, he needs to commit to an offseason where the focus is football.

Maybe they should quit designing stupid plays, (not that they are the only one), that get 0-2 yards max. Baltimore drew up one of the dumbest yet. Lamar Jackson as the only receiver and a direct snap to Ingram. Of course it went no where even with their top 5 OL. WTH is Ingram gonna do? Pass it? Just flat out dumb.

The 'trickery' is a miserable failure. Bill Walsh has got to be rolling over in his grave. Give me a quick slant and like you said, dump offs to the RB, when you have a bad OL. Once that starts going, you free up deeper passes. You don't free up deeper passes when you run some stupid play where the QB flips it to a WR running sideways and gets 2 yards. The other team is just laughing at you.

  • Laughing 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Maybe they should quit designing stupid plays, (not that they are the only one), that get 0-2 yards max. Baltimore drew up one of the dumbest yet. Lamar Jackson as the only receiver and a direct snap to Ingram. Of course it went no where even with their top 5 OL. WTH is Ingram gonna do? Pass it? Just flat out dumb.

The 'trickery' is a miserable failure. Bill Walsh has got to be rolling over in his grave. Give me a quick slant and like you said, dump offs to the RB, when you have a bad OL. Once that starts going, you free up deeper passes. You don't free up deeper passes when you run some stupid play where the QB flips it to a WR running sideways and gets 2 yards. The other team is just laughing at you.

Freddie certainly has his fair share of 'over thinking it' plays. They ran a screen to Landry that worked perfectly but man it took forever to develop. Any team not named Cincinnati and I think that play gets blown up before before you get in a 3 count. I don't recall any other during the game but I'm sure there were others.

The most frustrating thing, to me, is we are going against one of the worst teams in the league. You have the ability to run on every single team in the league. No one has shut down Chubb let alone Chubb/Hunt. Why not exert dominance from the get go, run a long, sustained, heavy run drive down their throat and have your way with them? Instead we #### around and up until pretty late in the game, leave the door open for them to win. Just don't get it.

I said last week we will lose one to Cincy, I really thought I jinxed them yesterday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, beer 30 said:

Along with the OL can not or refuses to pass block. Everything points to running the ball on this team and the HC/OC refuse to. I think that's where the frustration comes from. Of course they run but it's the lack of situational awareness that compounds the problem. When logic dictates you run the ball, we are chucking it deep. Doesn't make any sense.

The unwillingness to dump off to one of our RB's becomes more & more painful every week as we continue to see both of them shine every time they touch the ball. Watch Tom Brady, he is the king of the dump off. I think part of it Baker wanting to hit the home run every play, part of it is coaches/management saying we have Jarvis Landry and Odell Beckem Jr. - get them the ball and part of it is a coach trying to figure it out & is a little pass happy. How many carries did Chubb have yesterday? 15? and he had what? 106 yards rushing? C'mon man

Dorsey traded away Hyde last year when the coach wouldn't play Chubb. I gotta think at some point he makes a call to Freddie and strongly recommends running the football more than 24 times split between the two RB's.

Baker has regressed, his OL was bad last year but got better. His OL this year is bad and getting worse. I think leaning more on the run, taking some pressure off the QB and beating people up is the way to go but, and it's just speculation on my part, Baker is playing hurt. Not hurt enough to not play and frankly we don't have another option anyhow but there is something off with him this year. And lets be real, he needs to commit to an offseason where the focus is football.

There are points being made I agree with, but there are things that keep getting cited that lack context that matters. Kinda like the Cincy run d thing I mentioned earlier.

*You mention Chubb only getting 15 carries...but that was almost a third of the snaps. 

*You insinuate the overall lack of usage from the RB's, but they were the intended ball carrier/target on 28 of the 51 plays.

*There were eight plays of 3rd & 5 or longer, the team was 5-8 w/one td and one int in those situations without using Chubb/Hunt on any of them (I'm not counting the last one against Chubb for what I think should be obvious reasons)

*So, in non third and long's Chubb/Hunt were the intended ball carrier/target on 27 of those 42 plays. And we're complaining about their lack of usage?

---

So there's part of me that wishes others would focus more specifically on the types of plays calls or the general situational criticism you threw up there (I agree btw), but then @lod001 brings up that Landry play in New England (again). The play call was fine. You can see how it would work on the back side. The problem with the play is no one can explain what the hell Bitonio was doing on the play. I missed it in real-time, but after someone else mentioned it in here and I went back and watched it again...what. the. hell. So, yeah - if you just watch Baker, Landry, and Guy on that play it looks mind numbingly stupid. But if you look at how Guy was there in the first place it all makes sense. But we criticize Freddie for it. :mellow:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, lod001 said:

The other team is just laughing at you.

Houston brought a play like that successfully to bear during the New England game. It was Hopkins on a pitch to Watson. 

It looked completely stupid, almost got Deshaun killed, but hey, it was a TD from the five so who's complaining?

I can't believe these guys sometimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Houston brought a play like that successfully to bear during the New England game. It was Hopkins on a pitch to Watson. 

It looked completely stupid, almost got Deshaun killed, but hey, it was a TD from the five so who's complaining?

I can't believe these guys sometimes.

...and what you guys are mentioning is why I try not to drill down too much into specific poor play calls. The Saints scored 48 yesterday and Payton still had several gaffes midstream. Ask every fanbase what they think about their team's play calling and they'll say it sucks. And I only write that with a little hyperbole.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

There are points being made I agree with, but there are things that keep getting cited that lack context that matters. Kinda like the Cincy run d thing I mentioned earlier.

*You mention Chubb only getting 15 carries...but that was almost a third of the snaps. 

*You insinuate the overall lack of usage from the RB's, but they were the intended ball carrier/target on 28 of the 51 plays.

*There were eight plays of 3rd & 5 or longer, the team was 5-8 w/one td and one int in those situations without using Chubb/Hunt on any of them (I'm not counting the last one against Chubb for what I think should be obvious reasons)

*So, in non third and long's Chubb/Hunt were the intended ball carrier/target on 27 of those 42 plays. And we're complaining about their lack of usage?

---

So there's part of me that wishes others would focus more specifically on the types of plays calls or the general situational criticism you threw up there (I agree btw), but then @lod001 brings up that Landry play in New England (again). The play call was fine. You can see how it would work on the back side. The problem with the play is no one can explain what the hell Bitonio was doing on the play. I missed it in real-time, but after someone else mentioned it in here and I went back and watched it again...what. the. hell. So, yeah - if you just watch Baker, Landry, and Guy on that play it looks mind numbingly stupid. But if you look at how Guy was there in the first place it all makes sense. But we criticize Freddie for it. :mellow:

You're right, I did this a couple of games ago breaking down the run game. After the game is over you sit there and scream why didn't we run the ball more? Then you look at the stats and it was almost exactly how you broke it down, between Chubb/Hunt, they touched the ball about 50% of the plays. It just doesn't seem that way during real time because the runs are sprinkled in here & there with the occasional dump off or screen. I want to see them come out for a 15 play sustained drive and run the ball 12 times. And then do it again...and again...and again. I haven't seen any of that or they do it once (opening drive of the second half) then go away from it when the game situation dictates that you should be grinding it out on the ground, eating up the clock and beating down the worst defense in the league.

Instead we try to throw with a QB that is struggling in his sophomore season behind an OL that has not proven they can pass pro in 13 game this season while trying to force balls to a WR that his been hurt since training camp.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

. Ask every fanbase what they think about their team's play calling and they'll say it sucks. And I only write that with a little hyperbole.

This is true, and drives me a little nuts. But there are certain basic imbalances that sometimes happen when a coach tries to bring his system to bear on a team and that system doesn't fit. Then, even a basic fan can be excused for questioning the direction and aim of the calls. But yeah, I 'd sort of agree with you about your general statement.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

5 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

...and what you guys are mentioning is why I try not to drill down too much into specific poor play calls. The Saints scored 48 yesterday and Payton still had several gaffes midstream. Ask every fanbase what they think about their team's play calling and they'll say it sucks. And I only write that with a little hyperbole.

He does stupid #### but he has Brees there to dig him out of the hole he created. You can do that when you have arguably the greatest passer in the history of the NFL. It's still stupid and he can get away with it until he gets to the playoffs. Then you are playing the best of the best and the stupid crap can cost you a game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, lod001 said:

 

He does stupid #### but he has Brees there to dig him out of the hole he created. You can do that when you have arguably the greatest passer in the history of the NFL. It's still stupid and he can get away with it until he gets to the playoffs. Then you are playing the best of the best and the stupid crap can cost you a game.

Or the refs can cost you the game.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, rockaction said:

This is true, and drives me a little nuts. But there are certain basic imbalances that sometimes happen when a coach tries to bring his system to bear on a team and that system doesn't fit. Then, even a basic fan can be excused for questioning the direction and aim of the calls. But yeah, I 'd sort of agree with you about your general statement.  

Yeah, what @lod001 brought up earlier about last year...that contributed to my optimism going into this year. What this team did to Cincy in the first half of that game wasn't a product of the opponent; that was all Browns. And it wasn't the only time last season either.

Then what we've seen this year has not involved any of those same passing game concepts. I'm left sitting on my couch...bar stool...section 113...saying/screaming, the ####? But I'm also thinking what transpired to get us to this point. If we're going with this vertical passing offense then why are we taking unnecessary risks at right guard? and if we are not addressing tackle then why aren't we prioritizing blocking tight ends? So I wouldn't dismiss what's going on schematically all being on Freddie, it just doesn't seem all that likely. The lack of in-game adjustments certainly falls on him, but I keep coming back to...he recognized the team's weaknesses last year and schemed around them...so why isn't it happening this year? It makes no sense.

There are obviously other problems, but schematically I think that's the problem that needs fixed, whatever it is. We just don't know enough not being inside that building to specifically identify the source of the problem. It's why I won't bury my head in my hands if he gets canned. If he's really what's causing those problems then so be it. I'm just skeptical of who the proposed solution may be. So I hope the problem is something else and whatever it is gets fixed - I'll be more optimistic about 2020 if that's the case.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

[ ]...what we've seen this year has not involved any of those same passing game concepts. I'm left sitting on my couch...bar stool...section 113...saying/screaming, the ####? But I'm also thinking what transpired to get us to this point. If we're going with this vertical passing offense then why are we taking unnecessary risks at right guard? and if we are not addressing tackle then why aren't we prioritizing blocking tight ends? So I wouldn't dismiss what's going on schematically all being on Freddie, it just doesn't seem all that likely. The lack of in-game adjustments certainly falls on him, but I keep coming back to...he recognized the team's weaknesses last year and schemed around them...so why isn't it happening this year? It makes no sense.

...[w]e just don't know enough not being inside that building to specifically identify the source of the problem

I haven't understood this part of your lament either, and it took a lot of digging to bring it to voice. If he is the mastermind behind last year's success, what on earth is going on with the playcylling? I understand OC's have their own autonomy but it would seem to be that if a) he resurrected the offense in a specific way and to his liking and b) had his choice of coaches, this is especially baffling. 

It brings me to the bolded. I certainly don't and if homers and sourced people definitely don't, then all you're left with is confusion. 

Edited by rockaction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Yeah, what @lod001 brought up earlier about last year...that contributed to my optimism going into this year. What this team did to Cincy in the first half of that game wasn't a product of the opponent; that was all Browns. And it wasn't the only time last season either.

Then what we've seen this year has not involved any of those same passing game concepts. I'm left sitting on my couch...bar stool...section 113...saying/screaming, the ####? But I'm also thinking what transpired to get us to this point. If we're going with this vertical passing offense then why are we taking unnecessary risks at right guard? and if we are not addressing tackle then why aren't we prioritizing blocking tight ends? So I wouldn't dismiss what's going on schematically all being on Freddie, it just doesn't seem all that likely. The lack of in-game adjustments certainly falls on him, but I keep coming back to...he recognized the team's weaknesses last year and schemed around them...so why isn't it happening this year? It makes no sense.

There are obviously other problems, but schematically I think that's the problem that needs fixed, whatever it is. We just don't know enough not being inside that building to specifically identify the source of the problem. It's why I won't bury my head in my hands if he gets canned. If he's really what's causing those problems then so be it. I'm just skeptical of who the proposed solution may be. So I hope the problem is something else and whatever it is gets fixed - I'll be more optimistic about 2020 if that's the case.

You know more about the team than I do but I really question the capabilities of Monken. I think he's simply dumb. Someone has put in these dumb plays and i'm gonna go back to the 3rd & 7 run 3 WRs down the field 20+ yards from the left hash mark to the right side of the right hash mark. Not only were they running way past the 1st down marker, they were all closely grouped together as well. If they had not shown the replay from a distance you would have thought, 'well, must be great coverage'. No the WRs were still running downfield well past the 1st down marker when Mayfield was sacked. There was no one to throw to because they all ran 20+ yard routes. No defense required. When the announcers, former players, may have been Troy Aikman, are questioning the logic, there's a problem. Mayfield doesn't yet have the experience to say, hell no we aren't running that play.  The play caller did all the work by giving Mayfield no chance of succeeding.

Baltimore used to be really stupid for years. One of their favorite plays was on 3rd and short, run a WR along the right sidelines 15+ yards deep and see if Flacco could hit the WR. It's ok to send a guy deep along the sidelines on 3rd and short but why do you continually throw to him? It was almost always uncatchable too.

 

Yeah, it's monken. He's gotta go. He sucks.

We don’t need more 5-yard plays. Who needs more 5-yard plays? How can we be explosive? That’s what the game is about, man. People like big plays. I like big plays.

So how do we figure out how to get big plays? In football trick plays are fun. I mean, what isn’t fun about explosive plays and throwing it down the field and guys making plays?

Bill Walsh would have one of his players stomp this clown into the ground. Trick plays are fun. What a moron.

 

Edited by lod001
  • Thinking 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I haven't understood this part of your lament either, and it took a lot of digging to bring it to voice. If he is the mastermind behind last year's success, what on earth is going on with the playcylling? I understand OC's have their own autonomy but it would seem to be that if a) he resurrected the offense in a specific way and to his liking and b) had his choice of coaches, this is especially baffling. 

It brings me to the bolded. I certainly don't and if homers and sourced people definitely don't, then all you're left with is confusion. 

The biggest problem is the trifecta of suck that is the head of the Browns beat in our local media are notorious narrative pusher's and (most of) the rest are too big of homer's to take anything they say or insinuate with a large grain of salt. If what I've heard is true it's not favorable for the Browns and leaves you angrier with Dorsey than Freddie, but still mad at both. But what I've heard is all third hand. So, how much of it is fact and how much of it is (mis)interpretation? :shrug:

That's why I'm more concerned about leaks and actions over the next month than anything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Monken is like clowns before him. Mike Martz who thrived under the perfect setup yet failed miserably everywhere else when he kept trying to do the same thing with players below HOF caliber. He was only a success when he had HOF QB, HOF RB and probably 2 eventual HOF WRs. Arians is the same. He's also all about lots of big plays but he's a failure.

As much as I despise Harbug in BALT, he's for the most part built the entire O around what his QB can do best with a brain fart of Ingram wildcat, Jackson lined up wide mixed in every so often. He's just ruined my kicker with his analytics. Kitchens/Monken are trying to do what Monken did in TB even though it was a failure. Big plays, big yards, big INTs. Big whoop, loser.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

The biggest problem is the trifecta of suck that is the head of the Browns beat in our local media are notorious narrative pusher's and (most of) the rest are too big of homer's to take anything they say or insinuate with a large grain of salt. If what I've heard is true it's not favorable for the Browns and leaves you angrier with Dorsey than Freddie, but still mad at both. But what I've heard is all third hand. So, how much of it is fact and how much of it is (mis)interpretation? :shrug:

That's why I'm more concerned about leaks and actions over the next month than anything else.

I think I get what you're insinuating and given the progression of events as laid out: 

  1. Hue fired
  2. Kitchens and Williams promoted to OC and HC specifically
  3. Offense is screamingly successful
  4. Additions made to offense as is
  5. Kitchens promoted to HC
  6. Offense looks wildly different
  7. Offense less than screamingly successful

That leaves us with two things: The GM or owner (who has supposedly voluntarily backed off) wants the offense changed or the OC hasn't had the proper quality/hierarchy control normally given to those in his position. 

So, given the "leaves you angrier with Dorsey than Freddie" you're sort of insinuating this has to do with Dorsey, this offensive change, though you're being really careful to say it. If one looks for evidence for this, one could look (my theory) at RB usage. If so successful with Chubb traditionally running the football on first and second down and brining in Hunt for third, why are they running a ton of two backfield sets? And what is up with Kareem's usage? Homers would know better than I, so I'll just say it might be confusing. Two backfield sets are especially confusing to me in a downfield offense. How do they integrate, really? Anyway, just spitballing here, but there's so much confusion about what you're doing that many things seem plausible. 

Edited by rockaction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, lod001 said:

As much as I despise Harbug in BALT, he's for the most part built the entire O around what his QB can do best with a brain fart of Ingram wildcat, Jackson lined up wide mixed in every so often. He's just ruined my kicker with his analytics

Same in Philadelphia. I talked about dumping Tucker in the kicking thread for this exact reason. I'd rather stream guys going against teams that stink than have Tucker or Elliott every week. I think the numbers would bear that out. It's just laziness not to stream them these days.  

Back on topic: Didn't like Monken in TB, but love Arians. Tampa Bay, if they sign Jameis and uprgrade in the secondary and at running back is a dangerous offensive team and defensively capable of hanging around, especially their run defense.  But that's an aside. The TB offense last year looked confusing, too. Godwin couldn't even get on the field in two-wides. That's bad.  

Edited by rockaction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I think I get what you're insinuating and given the progression of events as laid out: 

  1. Hue fired
  2. Kitchens and Williams promoted to OC and HC specifically
  3. Offense is screamingly successful
  4. Additions made to offense as is
  5. Kitchens promoted to HC
  6. Offense looks wildly different
  7. Offense less than screamingly successful

That leaves us with two things: The GM or owner (who has supposedly voluntarily backed off) wants the offense changed or the OC hasn't had the proper quality/hierarchy control normally given to those in his position. 

So, given the "leaves you angrier with Dorsey than Freddie" you're sort of insinuating this has to do with Dorsey, this offensive change, though you're being really careful to say it. If one looks for evidence for this, one could look (my theory) at RB usage. If so successful with Chubb traditionally running the football on first and second down and brining in Hunt for third, they were running a ton of two backfield sets. Two backfield sets are confusing to me in a downfield offense. How do they integrate, really? Anyway, just spitballing here, but there's so much confusion about what you're doing that many things seem plausible. 

I think you did well.

The issue I keep running into is no matter what path I wander down I still end up with questions. I think it's fair to say playing connect-the-dots  this season's problems are bigger than just Freddie. But are they correctable with him still installed as part of the solution? :shrug:

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't necessarily believe this, but to play devil's advocate for Monken - he is (allegedly) heavily involved in the creation of the game plan. Generally speaking the Browns have been successful when in the pre-game script. Once out of the script he is (allegedly) in more of an advisory role and while it's not been the case every week, generally speaking the Browns offense has not been as successful once out of the script. And Monken was (allegedly) not, specifically, a Freddie hire.

Few different path's you can go with that info.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, amnesiac said:

:loco:

I can see why you'd do that. 

Funny. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i can’t make heads or tails of any of this. 
 

the only thing that seems obvious, is that Mayfield was quick and decisive last year, in what looked to my eyes to be a short passing offense with occasional shots down the field.  
 

this year, he’s holding the ball, looks confused, and it seems like they’re trying to go deep almost every play.  
 

i don’t know how to look up the numbers to see if this is actually what is happening.  
 

i also have less than no idea WHY it is happening, if this is in fact what is happening.  
 

no idea why they are insisting on square peg - round hole at this point, but i guess egos can be a hell of a thing.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

i can’t make heads or tails of any of this. 
 

the only thing that seems obvious, is that Mayfield was quick and decisive last year, in what looked to my eyes to be a short passing offense with occasional shots down the field.  
 

this year, he’s holding the ball, looks confused, and it seems like they’re trying to go deep almost every play.  
 

i don’t know how to look up the numbers to see if this is actually what is happening.  
 

i also have less than no idea WHY it is happening, if this is in fact what is happening.  
 

no idea why they are insisting on square peg - round hole at this point, but i guess egos can be a hell of a thing.  

Coaching

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

i can’t make heads or tails of any of this. 
 

the only thing that seems obvious, is that Mayfield was quick and decisive last year, in what looked to my eyes to be a short passing offense with occasional shots down the field.  
 

this year, he’s holding the ball, looks confused, and it seems like they’re trying to go deep almost every play.  
 

i don’t know how to look up the numbers to see if this is actually what is happening.  YEP
 

i also have less than no idea WHY it is happening, if this is in fact what is happening.  
 

no idea why they are insisting on square peg - round hole at this point, but i guess egos can be a hell of a thing.  

Monken. We don’t need more 5-yard plays. Who needs more 5-yard plays? How can we be explosive? That’s what the game is about, man. People like big plays. I like big plays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

I'm sure some of you have seen this...but if not...

 

Mike M

This is why him in 2019 was always an awful idea. Just like it was when we hired Mangini immediately after he got fired. The Bills hiring Ryan right after he got fired. And what the Jets are going through right now with hiring Gase immediately after he got fired. The retread coach angle can work, but they need time to breathe. Once re-assessment is done they may return and repeat the same mistakes that led to their previous demise, but they're in a position in which they can legitimately grow and learn from their mistakes.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, daveR said:

I don't have the first clue (shaddup!) why they chose to pass-first in the first half, but Jim Donovan called it during his pre-game show.

Missed his pre-game. 

What did he say in the pre-game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Missed his pre-game. 

What did he say in the pre-game?

This & that -- usual stuff mostly -- but then he & Deek were addressing the game plan and he said (this quote from memory), "I have a feeling they're gonna come out throwing & screw it up."   Deek responded with, "Right.  Why run against the 32nd ranked run D?"  I thought it was an absurd thing to suggest, but he was right.  SMDH

Later, after the game, I guess Freddie was asked why they came out that way & he said that they saw some things to exploit in the pass D.  To me, that means their offensive "committee" made the plan & he went with it.  Makes me wonder who saw what and how much weight that carries versus the things we suggest (ie using your best weapons). 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, lod001 said:

Monken. We don’t need more 5-yard plays. Who needs more 5-yard plays? How can we be explosive? That’s what the game is about, man. People like big plays. I like big plays.

Yep.  He has a hand in it.  The other thing that plays a part is Baker.  He's confident that he can make every throw, hit every window.  He will often take that shot on his first read, which also alleviates any concerns with pass protection.  IMO, improve the pass pro & things  will fall into place. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, daveR said:

This & that -- usual stuff mostly -- but then he & Deek were addressing the game plan and he said (this quote from memory), "I have a feeling they're gonna come out throwing & screw it up."   Deek responded with, "Right.  Why run against the 32nd ranked run D?"  I thought it was an absurd thing to suggest, but he was right.  SMDH

Later, after the game, I guess Freddie was asked why they came out that way & he said that they saw some things to exploit in the pass D.  To me, that means their offensive "committee" made the plan & he went with it.  Makes me wonder who saw what and how much weight that carries versus the things we suggest (ie using your best weapons). 

Jimmy has a habit of being glib and dropping facetious comments.

I'm pretty sure he was joshing making an obviously mocking comment that turned out to be true.

I will say this.  

The Bengals came out in a 5-man front which basically screams 'We dare you to try and pass on us.'  We couldn't and in the second half we went run and blew up that front.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, daveR said:

This & that -- usual stuff mostly -- but then he & Deek were addressing the game plan and he said (this quote from memory), "I have a feeling they're gonna come out throwing & screw it up."   Deek responded with, "Right.  Why run against the 32nd ranked run D?"  I thought it was an absurd thing to suggest, but he was right.  SMDH

Later, after the game, I guess Freddie was asked why they came out that way & he said that they saw some things to exploit in the pass D.  To me, that means their offensive "committee" made the plan & he went with it.  Makes me wonder who saw what and how much weight that carries versus the things we suggest (ie using your best weapons). 

 

"We don’t need more 5-yard plays. Who needs more 5-yard plays? How can we be explosive? That’s what the game is about, man. People like big plays. I like big plays."

Oh yeah, this part too: "In football trick plays are fun"  Yeah is that losing fun cause your trick play killed a drive?

Monken sucks.

Edited by lod001

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PFF CLE Browns‏ @PFF_Browns

#Browns RG Wyatt Teller made our Team of the Week for his performance against the #Bengals. He allowed no pressures in 29 pass blocking snaps, en route to an 88.2 pass blocking grade, tying him with Joel Bitonio for 3rd among 74 qualifying WK14 guards

7:17 AM - 10 Dec 2019

------------------------------------

:thumbup:  We 'might' get rookie OT Drew Forbes back before the end of the season but DORSEY'S trade for Wyatt Teller is looking good.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.