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...and what you guys are mentioning is why I try not to drill down too much into specific poor play calls. The Saints scored 48 yesterday and Payton still had several gaffes midstream. Ask every fanbase what they think about their team's play calling and they'll say it sucks. And I only write that with a little hyperbole.
You're right, I did this a couple of games ago breaking down the run game. After the game is over you sit there and scream why didn't we run the ball more? Then you look at the stats and it was almost exactly how you broke it down, between Chubb/Hunt, they touched the ball about 50% of the plays. It just doesn't seem that way during real time because the runs are sprinkled in here & there with the occasional dump off or screen. I want to see them come out for a 15 play sustained drive and run the ball 12 times. And then do it again...and again...and again. I haven't seen any of that or they do it once (opening drive of the second half) then go away from it when the game situation dictates that you should be grinding it out on the ground, eating up the clock and beating down the worst defense in the league.There are points being made I agree with, but there are things that keep getting cited that lack context that matters. Kinda like the Cincy run d thing I mentioned earlier.
*You mention Chubb only getting 15 carries...but that was almost a third of the snaps.
*You insinuate the overall lack of usage from the RB's, but they were the intended ball carrier/target on 28 of the 51 plays.
*There were eight plays of 3rd & 5 or longer, the team was 5-8 w/one td and one int in those situations without using Chubb/Hunt on any of them (I'm not counting the last one against Chubb for what I think should be obvious reasons)
*So, in non third and long's Chubb/Hunt were the intended ball carrier/target on 27 of those 42 plays. And we're complaining about their lack of usage?
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So there's part of me that wishes others would focus more specifically on the types of plays calls or the general situational criticism you threw up there (I agree btw), but then @lod001 brings up that Landry play in New England (again). The play call was fine. You can see how it would work on the back side. The problem with the play is no one can explain what the hell Bitonio was doing on the play. I missed it in real-time, but after someone else mentioned it in here and I went back and watched it again...what. the. hell. So, yeah - if you just watch Baker, Landry, and Guy on that play it looks mind numbingly stupid. But if you look at how Guy was there in the first place it all makes sense. But we criticize Freddie for it.
This is true, and drives me a little nuts. But there are certain basic imbalances that sometimes happen when a coach tries to bring his system to bear on a team and that system doesn't fit. Then, even a basic fan can be excused for questioning the direction and aim of the calls. But yeah, I 'd sort of agree with you about your general statement.
He does stupid #### but he has Brees there to dig him out of the hole he created. You can do that when you have arguably the greatest passer in the history of the NFL. It's still stupid and he can get away with it until he gets to the playoffs. Then you are playing the best of the best and the stupid crap can cost you a game.
Yeah, what @lod001 brought up earlier about last year...that contributed to my optimism going into this year. What this team did to Cincy in the first half of that game wasn't a product of the opponent; that was all Browns. And it wasn't the only time last season either.
I haven't understood this part of your lament either, and it took a lot of digging to bring it to voice. If he is the mastermind behind last year's success, what on earth is going on with the playcylling? I understand OC's have their own autonomy but it would seem to be that if a) he resurrected the offense in a specific way and to his liking and b) had his choice of coaches, this is especially baffling.
You know more about the team than I do but I really question the capabilities of Monken. I think he's simply dumb. Someone has put in these dumb plays and i'm gonna go back to the 3rd & 7 run 3 WRs down the field 20+ yards from the left hash mark to the right side of the right hash mark. Not only were they running way past the 1st down marker, they were all closely grouped together as well. If they had not shown the replay from a distance you would have thought, 'well, must be great coverage'. No the WRs were still running downfield well past the 1st down marker when Mayfield was sacked. There was no one to throw to because they all ran 20+ yard routes. No defense required. When the announcers, former players, may have been Troy Aikman, are questioning the logic, there's a problem. Mayfield doesn't yet have the experience to say, hell no we aren't running that play. The play caller did all the work by giving Mayfield no chance of succeeding.
The biggest problem is the trifecta of suck that is the head of the Browns beat in our local media are notorious narrative pusher's and (most of) the rest are too big of homer's to take anything they say or insinuate with a large grain of salt. If what I've heard is true it's not favorable for the Browns and leaves you angrier with Dorsey than Freddie, but still mad at both. But what I've heard is all third hand. So, how much of it is fact and how much of it is (mis)interpretation?
I think I get what you're insinuating and given the progression of events as laid out:The biggest problem is the trifecta of suck that is the head of the Browns beat in our local media are notorious narrative pusher's and (most of) the rest are too big of homer's to take anything they say or insinuate with a large grain of salt. If what I've heard is true it's not favorable for the Browns and leaves you angrier with Dorsey than Freddie, but still mad at both. But what I've heard is all third hand. So, how much of it is fact and how much of it is (mis)interpretation?
That's why I'm more concerned about leaks and actions over the next month than anything else.
Same in Philadelphia. I talked about dumping Tucker in the kicking thread for this exact reason. I'd rather stream guys going against teams that stink than have Tucker or Elliott every week. I think the numbers would bear that out. It's just laziness not to stream them these days.
I think you did well.
Monken. We don’t need more 5-yard plays. Who needs more 5-yard plays? How can we be explosive? That’s what the game is about, man. People like big plays. I like big plays.
This is why him in 2019 was always an awful idea. Just like it was when we hired Mangini immediately after he got fired. The Bills hiring Ryan right after he got fired. And what the Jets are going through right now with hiring Gase immediately after he got fired. The retread coach angle can work, but they need time to breathe. Once re-assessment is done they may return and repeat the same mistakes that led to their previous demise, but they're in a position in which they can legitimately grow and learn from their mistakes.
This & that -- usual stuff mostly -- but then he & Deek were addressing the game plan and he said (this quote from memory), "I have a feeling they're gonna come out throwing & screw it up." Deek responded with, "Right. Why run against the 32nd ranked run D?" I thought it was an absurd thing to suggest, but he was right. SMDH
Yep. He has a hand in it. The other thing that plays a part is Baker. He's confident that he can make every throw, hit every window. He will often take that shot on his first read, which also alleviates any concerns with pass protection. IMO, improve the pass pro & things will fall into place.
Jimmy has a habit of being glib and dropping facetious comments.
"We don’t need more 5-yard plays. Who needs more 5-yard plays? How can we be explosive? That’s what the game is about, man. People like big plays. I like big plays."
We 'might' get rookie OT Drew Forbes back before the end of the season but DORSEY'S trade for Wyatt Teller is looking good.
He was one of the reasons we lost to the Steelers, but since it doesn't fit your Dorsey is great narrative let's ignore that game because it's not convenient for what you want to believe and instead focus on only this game.PFF CLE Browns @PFF_Browns
#Browns RG Wyatt Teller made our Team of the Week for his performance against the #Bengals. He allowed no pressures in 29 pass blocking snaps, en route to an 88.2 pass blocking grade, tying him with Joel Bitonio for 3rd among 74 qualifying WK14 guards
7:17 AM - 10 Dec 2019
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My only game is the Browns winning. I want us to do whatever maximizes the chances of that happening for a sustained period of time. Everything else is just noise.Your hate Dorsey game - strong.
Yes, I am driven by accountability. For example when a right guard has a great game he deserves credit for it. He also deserves criticism when he has a poor game. Unless it doesn't fit your preconceived bias anyway.
Keeping accountable? Agendas?
Making stuff up is agenda fitting.
You brought him up. Don't get mad at me for correcting your cherry picking.
This is the most important piece...and I think he got the guy. There's also a whole lot more to being a good GM than identifying the franchise QB.
There have been a lot more transactions than just those 5 - I may take this post more seriously if you unpack all of them and not just your cherry picking.
As I have said multiple times before if Freddie gets whacked then he's earned it. That action alone does not leave me thinking any more optimistically about 2020 though.
Explain your case against Dorsey. You admit he got the franchise now what is the reason why he's the problem and not Freddie because that is what you have said but failed to make any case. You won't even say why just because you say so which is not a case.
Jesus, Tony.
Your inability to read is second only to...
...your hypocrisy.
Bad take guy strikes again. How many pages will your ego allow this time? Dorsey is responsible?
Since I don't like wasting time repeating myself here's a sample from literally the last two weeks when I am clearly just tossing blanket statements without substance criticizing Dorsey. The problem is more nuanced than Dorsey. It's more nuanced than Freddie. I think the problems start with Dorsey. Where do they go from there? I don't know. If you pretend to know then I think you already decided your destination and no facts to the contrary will sway you.
I am shocked that you sought out the 9 words that fit your preconceived bias and ignored the other 567.
Oh yeah. Unprecedented talent. Peppers. I was supposed to pat you on the butt for that?
Browns gave up 1 sack in the first game. Above average. 5 in the 2nd. Below average
I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or disputing something. Pressures can be just as destructive as sacks. It was not a good day for the tackles.
It frustrates me because I don't even think of myself as pro-Freddie. I'm not sure exactly where I am on him, but I see both positives (parallel's to the good traits of Pettine and Butch) and negatives (the bad trait's of Farmer and Shurmur). It's just clear how anti-Freddie everyone is - and they have seemingly been there since October (or sooner). It appears they're taking that negative bias and just fitting what's happened since to that narrative. So I find myself constantly defending him...even though I'm not sure I actually believe it. It's...weird.beer 30 said:I love it when we eat our own
I hear you. I look at some of the stuff he does and think wtf? But then I try to temper my thoughts with first year HC, overall record not bad (just not what we expected) so I step back and think how do we fix this. I'm not sure who's responsible for the game plan but whoever it is needs to have a sit down at the end of the year and made to throw away whatever book they are working out of. Whether that's Freddie or Monken or a combination, whatever they are doing, stop it. If that means the OC goes and you get somebody else in to take the play calling off Freddie's table, so be it.
>>> Ross Tucker "I'd be shocked if they brought Freddie Kitchens back."Ross Tucker goes on to say he wouldn't be surprised if we didn't reach out to Ron's people to express an interest but doesn't think we'd fire Freddie with three games left. He speaks of issues with Baker and OBJ hinting a disciplined HC would not have allowed unnecessary distractions.
