Galileo
Footballguy
Wow. Freddie just seems to have had his head in the sand. https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1211450375909367809
oof.If there is a front office re-allignment then first year coach options may be on the table.
Interestingly, Mary Kay Cabot and Dan Labbe writing for Cleveland.com threw together a list of candidates, and Lincoln is not on it. I respect Mary Kay, but I am not putting much stock in this speculative list. Jim Harbaugh is on this list. If that were to come to fruition, I will supply everyone with pitchforks and lead the charge on Haslam's office.With the firing coming so quickly I gotta think they want the jump on going after Lincoln. But seeing how three NFL loves to recycle guys that got fired somewhere else, I wouldn't be surprised if they go after Mike McCartHy.
I had to laugh to see and be reminded that ShurmurWas once the HC here and Shurmur likely gets fired tomorrow.
i will pay for the pitchforks if you handle the logistics.Interestingly, Mary Kay Cabot and Dan Labbe writing for Cleveland.com threw together a list of candidates, and Lincoln is not on it. I respect Mary Kay, but I am not putting much stock in this speculative list. Jim Harbaugh is on this list. If that were to come to fruition, I will supply everyone with pitchforks and lead the charge on Haslam's office.
Interesting read from a day ago about some front office power struggles...If there is a front office re-allignment then first year coach options may be on the table.
Well, if we let Dee call the shots (from the same article above)...McDaniels blew chunks with the Broncos and left Indy at the alter. Why the hell would we want him?
(Pro Football Network) also included some other scenarios, indicating that several scenarios are on the table following the team’s finale against the Cincinnati Bengals at Paul Brown Stadium.
• Dee Haslam has thrown herself into the mix, and is advocating for Patriots’ offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels to get the gig.
I'll start by saying I KNOW you know your Browns and I'll defer so this is more question than poking a bear but...if your list is nothing but retread HCs who have all been fired and flamed out and ran their courses, what are you gaining by NOT giving an inexperienced guy a chance? They all start somewhere a d they can't all be bad likeKitchens (which I agree, Freddie was obviously in way over his head).Jeremy FowlerVerified account @JFowlerESPN
Freddie Kitchens’ firing was about his 6-10 record, but that record spawned from what sources say was an unorganized approach to game-week prep. Kitchens was inexperienced, and it showed in virtually every way.
5:36 PM - 29 Dec 2019
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Coaching matters. The main arguments that lead to Kitchens hiring were, he wasn't Greg Williams who all the decision makers disliked, he was riding the whirlwind of Baker and the offense, continuity and the 'assumed' continued rise of Baker's learning curve.
No G-Will, no whirlwind, we don't want continuity of another 10 loss season, no improvement but a glaring lowering of Baker's learning curve.
Freddie was in over his head. Nice guy but not an NFL HC.
McDaniels blew chunks with the Broncos and left Indy at the alter. Why the hell would we want him?
McCarthy 'rumored' to have a list of demands. No, trust is earned.
Rivera would take control but his system doesn't fit our personnel.
I think the clear best option is Gary Kubiak. Head coaching experience, AFNC coaching experience, his scheme fits our personnel, former player, won a Super Bowl as a coach, participated in 7 SBs, he left due to health concerns but he's back and he's doing well enough with the Vikings to prove he hasn't lost it.
No to inexperienced HCs learning on the fly.
Eliminating anyone because they don't check a particular box is (almost) always a mistake.I'll start by saying I KNOW you know your Browns and I'll defer so this is more question than poking a bear but...if your list is nothing but retread HCs who have all been fired and flamed out and ran their courses, what are you gaining by NOT giving an inexperienced guy a chance?
but they will do it.Eliminating anyone because they don't check a particular box is (almost) always a mistake.
The Haslam's being terrible decision makers doesnt make what I said not true.but they will do it.
lol, didn’t say that you were not correct.The Haslam's being terrible decision makers doesnt make what I said not true.
2 years??If you’re McCarthy or Rivera you are only taking this job if you get 5 years and are the highest paid HC in the game.
The only option I can see is a first timer who doesn’t knew he’s fired after 2 years.
Just using the average. Freddie improved the team how much in 2 years? He couldn’t last as long as Hue!2 years??
If the Depo power play is legit then I think Andrew Berry/Kevin Stefanski is an option and the fanbase's collective heads would explode. And if it isn't then others of similar ilk may be. But I think Depo is only signing on if he is given full control.also, TBH, i have NO idea who they should hire.
just throwing out my 2 cents on what direction they will go, now that they have fired Kitchens.
The team isn't getting blown up, nor should it.my guess is that Dorsey has some egg on his face, but has done well enough to get one more hire.
he will go the safe route this time.
if they fire Dorsey it is another full rebuild.
that would be terrible. see the numbers i posted earlier about the Browns records over the years. they’ve had their best two years in a decade.
i know that’s not saying much, but to blow it up again at this point would be a huge mistake.
shouldn’t. but anything is possible at this point.The team isn't getting blown up, nor should it.
Their may be a Kyle Shanahan out their, possibly Greg Roman but the team just rolled the dice with that sort of gamble and Roman built his rep on a unique scheme that doesn't fit this team at all. I like the SF DC but look what he's got to work with. We don't have four first round picks on our D-Line.I'll start by saying I KNOW you know your Browns and I'll defer so this is more question than poking a bear but...if your list is nothing but retread HCs who have all been fired and flamed out and ran their courses, what are you gaining by NOT giving an inexperienced guy a chance? They all start somewhere a d they can't all be bad likeKitchens (which I agree, Freddie was obviously in way over his head).
But not all rookie HCs will be in over their heads. Some of these guys will be ok IF a team gives them the opportunity.
I mean, look no farther tha. Your own back yard. Belichick WAS experienced in the NFL,yet wasn't good enough in the short run for the Browns as a HC. He needed time. I only bring this up to illustrate that with experience or not, it's a moving Target. I look at Kitchens and think it's as clear as Hue Jackson...never gonna happen. Move on. But I look at another guy, like, say, the niners DZc and I could see a scenario where he might flame out if he was given a HC gig next year, but he looks like,e a guy that could grow with experience and be a good one.
Kubiak, I just don't know. I think the Texans should have achieved much more when he was there. I think he would be a place holder for you.
I think Larry O and Vernon are back. Hard to base their play on the fact that they were the only constant starters for most of the season with rookies and guys off the street playing next to them (outside of Richardson).Roster-wise, what does everyone think will happen? Defensively is where I think we see the most change. We gave up 30+ points in our last 3 games and the DL was poor, getting pushed off the line and no pass rush to really speak of. We basically had Richardson, Ogunjobi and 2 guys off the street after Myles got suspended.
I think:
are all gone. I like Schobert but am 50/50 on him coming back since he's not a Dorsey pick.
- Randall
- Obgunjobi
- Kirksey
- Vernon
Re Scho, it's tough to dismiss the Sashi guy angle. If Dorsey is still in control of the 53 anyway.Peak said:I think Larry O and Vernon are back. Hard to base their play on the fact that they were the only constant starters for most of the season with rookies and guys off the street playing next to them (outside of Richardson).
Joe is a shell game they are playing. They should pay the guy and move on to the next one. Unless he's asking for the moon, I don't understand why he's not re-signed yet.
Just think if he would have had a Hall of Fame head coach also helping him out?Per Schefter: Browns sent formal request to Patriots to interview McDaniels
Rumors around the net are that this interest is very real - from both sides. McDaniels is said to be very interested in CLE, and Dee Haslam has always been high on McDaniels. Depending on the process and FO structure (changes pending?), this could really happen.
Talk is that he has matured/grown/learned from his past mistakes and really taken the steps to being a top candidate again. It helps that he's had Tom Brady in his corner, but he is pushing the right buttons in NE (aside from yesterday's collapse to MIA). The IND backout was said to be due to Org Structure issues and lack of transparency over Luck's injury status. McDaniels will want more control than what Dorsey may be willing to give up. But if Dorsey is moved to a VP of Football Ops role, then that would pave the way for either Elliot Wolf to step in as GM, or for McD to bring in his own GM guy (Ceasario?, Berry?).
Wilks coached the Panthers under Rivera to the Super Bowl.On a sidenote....
Per Allbright, if/when Rivera takes the Redskins HC job, he is expected to name Wilks as his DC. So that's a bonus.
That would be part of the maturity angle and "learning from his mistakes".Just think if he would have had a Hall of Fame head coach also helping him out?
Failure away from the comfort of a Hall of Fame quarterback AND HOF HC?
We saw what it looked like away from the softest coaching nest in possibly NFL history when he crashed and burned in Denver. We've seen the New England coaching tree wither many times but Josh McDaniels want more control? The guy who drafted Tim Tebo wants control?
So you're going to hang your hat on that one game? This stellar defense that couldn't close out a game against some of the worst offensive teams in the NFL over the last month?We saw the brilliant game plan against the Ravens when the entire secondary was out and how the entire team took a hit when Myles got suspended.
Box score from yesterday. This is what Wilks had to work with.So you're going to hang your hat on that one game? This stellar defense that couldn't close out a game against some of the worst offensive teams in the NFL over the last month?
There were more times than naught where I sat there scratching my head wondering why the soft coverage. When he "coached" up this ragtag group of players one week only to watch them fall apart the next week. He didn't impress me as much as he has you, apparently.
And take a step back and look at how many games each of those played in. These aren't new guys that just showed up at the gate on Sunday and Wilks said "sure! go get a uniform!"Box score from yesterday. This is what Wilks had to work with.
Many wanted to give Freddy more time to mature and grow because ya know, he never was a head coach and had less than one year as a coordinator. Should we give him Hue Jackson years to learn?That would be part of the maturity angle and "learning from his mistakes".
As far as the NE tree, things have been looking up for it lately. Consider Bill O'Brien, Brian Flores, and Mike Vrabel - the latest branches on the tree that seem to be blooming quite well away from NE.
I'm not a McDaniels fan by any means, but it would be quite the misconception to consider someone can't learn from past mistakes. There has to be a reason BB was willing to take McDaniels back in NE after he failed in DEN and STL. I have to think he's been humbled and learned/grown from past mistakes.
The rookie HC was also an enormous problem right. That HC put the entire team in the weeds with his terrible play calling and lack of understanding of how to manage a game.And take a step back and look at how many games each of those played in. These aren't new guys that just showed up at the gate on Sunday and Wilks said "sure! go get a uniform!"
Majority of guys you've listed have played in multiple games this season. They have been with the ORG since training camps (a few on the practice squad) with the exception of Bryan Cox, who was added in early November, I believe. Some of these "no names" contributed in those games where the defense was stout, but only to fall off the next week. These aren't new players, and Sunday wasn't their first time on the field. Let's not over-exaggerate the scenario.
I'll admit he hasn't had the roster he thought he was getting when he took the job. But #### happens. You roll with it and play to your player's strengths. Unfortunately, Wilks' MO has been to pigeon hole players into his scheme, instead of making the adjustments and playing to their strengths. That is the only way I can explain the up and down defense all year. This was also the same reason he was oustered from AZ.
Yeah, Dorsey can't pick a head coach, don't look at Andy Reid or the fact he chose correctly with G-Will over Haley for interim HC. His ONLY HC selection was Kitchens so he doesn't know how to pick a HC. Leave that to Dee Haslam. Her record is spotless.The depth Dorsey provided Wilks with was garbage and the starting unit more holes than we believed 4 months ago. He has square peg-round hole issues, but overall I wouldn't look at his performance and call it a failure. If the square peg-round hole is that great of an issue with you then I think that falls more on Dorsey. He gave Wilks the personnel, so if it wasnt a fit then why are you hiring him?
I would steer clear of any Rookie HC candidates. Aside from Freddie, these have never really worked in our favor. Was the Butch Davis the last one that did well? Then he had serious medical issues...so I guess Cleveland broke him.The rookie HC was also an enormous problem right. That HC put the entire team in the weeds with his terrible play calling and lack of understanding of how to manage a game.
Who knows how he'll look outside of his 2nd stint in NE. Did he grow/mature having more time under BB? That NE offense is decimated, yet his offensive play calling helped keep the ball moving and the team scoring. Tom wasn't drawing up those plays in the dirt, but he definitely helped make them successful. Again, not a McDaniels fan, but a lot of smoke coming out of CLE with him being in the middle of it.McDaniels looked really good with a HOF QB and HOF HC. He'll have that here right?
Not a full tear down coming. But they’ve been dismantling parts of it all season. Parts that I thought had a chance to contribute this year and some that I thought would be around for a while.MAC_32 said:The team isn't getting blown up, nor should it.
From my understanding Harbaugh is the guy who pushed in all of the chips to go with Roman's system but Roman came up with it. He had/has Lamar but it was/is a brilliant scheme. I give Harbs a lot of credit too since you need a HC to recognize value and understand how to leverage it. I noticed how much resources the Ravens put into Roman/Lamar and was really curious to see how it turned out. Better than even the most die hard Rat fan could imagine. Not just the scheme, the GM got on board and got personnel to bet the house on that scheme.Latest HC Request....
Per Schefter, Cleveland has requested to interview Greg Roman
Not sure how I feel on this one. He's creative offensively for sure, but it never appears to be sustainable. Is it because he leaves for the next job? Ryan was great, then regressed. Kapernick was great, then he left. Tyrod was great, then he left. Lamar is his latest project, and it looks like the same trend. Will Lamar regress if he leaves? Does his scheme fit Baker's talents? Can Roman build around Baker's strengths?
Worth interviewing as he's had success as an OC in many places.
Tom Brady has played at an elevated level for so long that Freddie could call plays and he would make him look great. Now that Tom Terrific is showing signs of age that offense hasn't looked as good. The personnel wasn't nearly good with the supporting cast but he had a HOF QB and HQ who knows how to manage games better than anyone. The HOF QB took a hometown discount and veteran FAs fall over themselves to sign with NE and quite frankly the refs show a lot of favoritism to that team/HC.Who knows how he'll look outside of his 2nd stint in NE. Did he grow/mature having more time under BB? That NE offense is decimated, yet his offensive play calling helped keep the ball moving and the team scoring. Tom wasn't drawing up those plays in the dirt, but he definitely helped make them successful. Again, not a McDaniels fan, but a lot of smoke coming out of CLE with him being in the middle of it.
If there is front office re-allignment then I expect a focus on glue. The core of this team presents a good starting point. There is no foundation though. That's what I'd expect out of this offseason if someone other than Dorsey controls the roster.Not a full tear down coming. But they’ve been dismantling parts of it all season. Parts that I thought had a chance to contribute this year and some that I thought would be around for a while.
I thought you guys were discussing Dorsey tearing it down. Carry on.If there is front office re-allignment then I expect a focus on glue. The core of this team presents a good starting point. There is no foundation though. That's what I'd expect out of this offseason if someone other than Dorsey controls the roster.
Nah, that was if there is front office changes. I am skeptical about what Dorsey may do if he retains control of the 53 though. Because it may be the opposite of a tear down. GM's with warm seats have a tendency to make short sighted decisions at the expense of long term sustainability.I thought you guys were discussing Dorsey tearing it down. Carry on.