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Cleveland Browns (12 Viewers)

I have a hard time putting much blame on someone who never should have been hired for his position.  

Freddie was horrific all year in every way, but the fault goes to who hired him.  He had zero business being a head coach.   MAYBE a coordinator.

 
I have a hard time putting much blame on someone who never should have been hired for his position.  

Freddie was horrific all year in every way, but the fault goes to who hired him.  He had zero business being a head coach.   MAYBE a coordinator.
Sashi was part of the team that hired the worst coach in NFL history and he failed landing a franchise QB.  Sashi had 24 draft picks in two years.  Only Joe Schobert, Myles Garrett, David Njoku, Larry Ogunjobi are left.  4 first round picks, 2 second round picks, 4 third round picks, 5 fourth round picks, 5 fifth round picks, 1 sixth round pick, and 3 seventh round picks.  The team had a 1-31 record under Sashi worst in NFL history and he failed to land a franchise QB when John Dorsey leap frogged him to get Pat MaHomes.

Coaches are responsible for coaching not the GM but lets look at Dorsey's record with HCs.

Dorsey hired Andy Reid in KC and hired the correct interim HC in Greg Williams instead of Haley.   Dorsey got rid of the worst HC in NFL history but owners sign off on any GM or HC hire so lets look at the Haslam's record of hiring HCs.

  • Rob Chudzinski  
  • Mike Pettine 
  • Hue Jackson 
  • *Gregg Williams interim head coach
  • Freddie Kitchens
They inherited Pat Shumur so that isn't on them.  

 
@lod001 's boy Monken already in full blown leak mode. I'm not sure we'll ever really know how much influence he had, so grain of salt that until after he's established himself somewhere else again. There's some game script narrative to tie to though. 

 
Sashi was part of the team that hired the worst coach in NFL history and he failed landing a franchise QB.  Sashi had 24 draft picks in two years.  Only Joe Schobert, Myles Garrett, David Njoku, Larry Ogunjobi are left.  4 first round picks, 2 second round picks, 4 third round picks, 5 fourth round picks, 5 fifth round picks, 1 sixth round pick, and 3 seventh round picks.  The team had a 1-31 record under Sashi worst in NFL history and he failed to land a franchise QB when John Dorsey leap frogged him to get Pat MaHomes.

Coaches are responsible for coaching not the GM but lets look at Dorsey's record with HCs.

Dorsey hired Andy Reid in KC and hired the correct interim HC in Greg Williams instead of Haley.   Dorsey got rid of the worst HC in NFL history but owners sign off on any GM or HC hire so lets look at the Haslam's record of hiring HCs.

  • Rob Chudzinski  
  • Mike Pettine 
  • Hue Jackson 
  • *Gregg Williams interim head coach
  • Freddie Kitchens
They inherited Pat Shumur so that isn't on them.  
I have no idea what you are trying to say

 
Interesting take from Brent Sobleski:

Most logical options at this point (I think):

President: Paul DePodesta,

General Manager: Nick Caserio or Dave Zeigler, Head Coach: Josh McDaniels, OC: O'Connell or Schuplinski, DC: Gannon

-OR-

GM: Andrew Berry, HC Kevin Stefanski, OC/AHC: Mike McDaniel or Matt LaFleur, DC: ?
I think you’re right. Let’s hope at least...

Maybe McCarthy has a place in this list too. I’ve seen some conflicting stuff regarding the Wolf and McCarthy relationship though. No idea what to believe. 

 
The Haslems did everything fans and media wanted during the last go around...hire a GM that’s done it before/has a track record, let that GM make the roster decisions/draft picks, and leave the choice of coach to that GM. Yet here they are today being massacred in this town yet again for doing exactly what they should have done the last few days. 

None of that is is directed at anyone in here, I’ve barely read the posts today. Just going by what I’m seeing and hearing. 

 
The Haslems did everything fans and media wanted during the last go around...hire a GM that’s done it before/has a track record, let that GM make the roster decisions/draft picks, and leave the choice of coach to that GM. Yet here they are today being massacred in this town yet again for doing exactly what they should have done the last few days. 

None of that is is directed at anyone in here, I’ve barely read the posts today. Just going by what I’m seeing and hearing. 
Start reading this thread starting here.

Everyone acts like running a team is so easy. Just pick a good GM who picks a good coach and WHAMMO, Super Bowl! Plenty of experts and a whole lot of fans thought the Browns were geniuses. A year later when things went bad and experts are tsk-tsking and the fans are ripping management and ownership.

 
Start reading this thread starting here.

Everyone acts like running a team is so easy. Just pick a good GM who picks a good coach and WHAMMO, Super Bowl! Plenty of experts and a whole lot of fans thought the Browns were geniuses. A year later when things went bad and experts are tsk-tsking and the fans are ripping management and ownership.
Even good GMs make bad decisions.

Dorsey screwed up so bad hiring a coach who deserved it less than any coach ever that he was fired.  

Literally nothing in Kitchen's resume should have had anyone consider him as a head coach.  Nothing.  

I think Haslam picked a good GM, then that GM picked the worst possible head coach candidate in a year where the team was actually supposed to be good.  Like for real good, not just blind fan good.

 
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@lod001 's boy Monken already in full blown leak mode. I'm not sure we'll ever really know how much influence he had, so grain of salt that until after he's established himself somewhere else again. There's some game script narrative to tie to though. 
"Who needs 5 yards plays". “I like having fun,’’ Monken said. “I don’t know why it has to feel like such drudgery all the time. I just don’t. I’ve never understood that. I want a fight song. We don’t have a fight song."

Seriously???? That was after the Bucs hired this clown. This guy is pee wee football level.

 
"Who needs 5 yards plays". “I like having fun,’’ Monken said. “I don’t know why it has to feel like such drudgery all the time. I just don’t. I’ve never understood that. I want a fight song. We don’t have a fight song."

Seriously???? That was after the Bucs hired this clown. This guy is pee wee football level.
I maybe mistaken but wasn't it Dorsey who also picked Kitchen's coordinators as well?

 
 CLE - WR Jarvis Landry facing potential lengthy recovery

Source: Akron Beacon Journal - Nate Ulrich

Cleveland Browns WR Jarvis Landry (hip) told reporters Monday, Dec. 30, that a timetable for his return from hip surgery would be six to eight months, making surgery a 'last resort.'

[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ FOOTBALLGUYS VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]

Landry was able to play banged up for most of the 2019 season. Surgery is a last resort, and the veteran will have to determine what's best for him in the near future. Any sort of surgery in January would have him out of action until training camp at the earliest.

 
I like the idea of Josh McD getting another opportunity. I am assuming (perhaps I shouldn’t) he would have learned and grown from his Denver experiences. I don’t want a first time head coach learning on the job. 
Should Josh McDaniels get anther head coaching job?

The Sports Show with Woody Paige and Les Shapiro

Les Shapiro and Mike Pritchard talk about former Broncos player Josh McDaniels and if he should get anther head coaching job on The Sports Show on Dec. 30, 2014.

----

Les Shapiro is a local Denver sports reporter who covered the Broncos.  Pritch played for Josh.

Some quotes:  Les - Should Josh get another chance?

Pritch - (makes a pained exhale and notices his gut reaction and explains it in an apologetic way)  Oh that right there,  that reaction.   Would I consider it?  For an X's and O's standpoint yes but it takes more than that...   If I need a culture guy, a locker room guy, a guy my players can believe in?  (pursing his lips in an avoidance manner as he is shaking his head no as he says) I just don't know if he's the guy.

.. I would have a structure in place where he wouldn't have the sort of power that he would think he would have.  He cannot think that he has a lot of power.  If he thinks that then you'll have the same thing happen that happened here...

Les - What people don't realize about Josh McDaniel.  He was so  disrespectful of everyone he dealt with...  I know what happened when Josh met with people behind closed doors at Dove Valley.  IT WAS NOT PRETTY EVER!  ...When you are an NFL HC people look up to you for leadership.   He couldn't handle it and handled it very-very badly...  It (his behavior) was embarrassing, it destroyed morale.  He was paranoid, he was VERY immature...   He MAY have matured, MAY HAVE...  My problem is he had so many problems of running people, an operation of 220 people...  He was soo bad at it and so destructive.  I don't know if he'll EVER become good at it...  I ABSOLUTELY would not touch him as a head coach....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For anyone wanting Josh McDaniels you have to listen to this clip, only 8 minutes but well worth it since Dee wants this guy.

It was worse than my memory and I had no clue about the things that went on behind closed doors or the fact he hated everything about being a  head coach other than Xs  and Os and was so nasty to everyone.   The redemption story is great, yippee but he only says he has changed.  We'd  be betting he has completely changed and can deal with all aspects of being a HC but  Pritchard says to keep a tight structure in place so he doesn't get MORE power.  It sounds like he wants power to elevate himself above everyone so he doesn't have to deal with anyone or that power gives him the right to abuse them.  The last thing we should give him is his own GM.  

People can change but this has disaster written all over it.

 
Should Josh McDaniels get anther head coaching job?

The Sports Show with Woody Paige and Les Shapiro

Les Shapiro and Mike Pritchard talk about former Broncos player Josh McDaniels and if he should get anther head coaching job on The Sports Show on Dec. 30, 2014.

----

Les Shapiro is a local Denver sports reporter who covered the Broncos.  Pritch played for Josh.

Some quotes:  Les - Should Josh get another chance?

Pritch - (makes a pained exhale and notices his gut reaction and explains it in an apologetic way)  Oh that right there,  that reaction.   Would I consider it?  For an X's and O's standpoint yes but it takes more than that...   If I need a culture guy, a locker room guy, a guy my players can believe in?  (pursing his lips in an avoidance manner as he is shaking his head no as he says) I just don't know if he's the guy.

.. I would have a structure in place where he wouldn't have the sort of power that he would think he would have.  He cannot think that he has a lot of power.  If he thinks that then you'll have the same thing happen that happened here...

Les - What people don't realize about Josh McDaniel.  He was so  disrespectful of everyone he dealt with...  I know what happened when Josh met with people behind closed doors at Dove Valley.  IT WAS NOT PRETTY EVER!  ...When you are an NFL HC people look up to you for leadership.   He couldn't handle it and handled it very-very badly...  It (his behavior) was embarrassing, it destroyed morale.  He was paranoid, he was VERY immature...   He MAY have matured, MAY HAVE...  My problem is he had so many problems of running people, an operation of 220 people...  He was soo bad at it and so destructive.  I don't know if he'll EVER become good at it...  I ABSOLUTELY would not touch him as a head coach....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For anyone wanting Josh McDaniels you have to listen to this clip, only 8 minutes but well worth it since Dee wants this guy.

It was worse than my memory and I had no clue about the things that went on behind closed doors or the fact he hated everything about being a  head coach other than Xs  and Os and was so nasty to everyone.   The redemption story is great, yippee but he only says he has changed.  We'd  be betting he has completely changed and can deal with all aspects of being a HC but  Pritchard says to keep a tight structure in place so he doesn't get MORE power.  It sounds like he wants power to elevate himself above everyone so he doesn't have to deal with anyone or that power gives him the right to abuse them.  The last thing we should give him is his own GM.  

People can change but this has disaster written all over it.
I either saw this article or one similar....I would think (hope) JMcD has surely learned from those mistakes. I’m still rooting for him.

 
I either saw this article or one similar....I would think (hope) JMcD has surely learned from those mistakes. I’m still rooting for him.
Its not an article.  I was picking out only a few quotes.  Take the time to listen to the clip.  Its only 8 minutes.  If people can't spend a few minutes passively listening to some explosive insights  into a prospective coach then we have no chance at getting someone who will succeed.  Seriously, click on the link and listen.  

EDIT:  >>>>     LINK

 
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Its not an article.  I was picking out only a few quotes.  Take the time to listen to the clip.  Its only 8 minutes.  If people can't spend a few minutes passively listening to some explosive insights  into a prospective coach then we have no chance at getting someone who will succeed.
Exactly. I mean, I know I am expecting Haslam's call any minute now where he asks what I think.

 
Exactly. I mean, I know I am expecting Haslam's call any minute now where he asks what I think.
It really is not this hard.  It isn't.  It isn't being smarter than anyone it is just not hiring the unqualified clueless or qualified jerks.  

Get a F'ng coach who can handle the job, all aspects and if they can't then put in bumpers so they can succeed but if a Freddie Kitchens insists on calling plays AS A ROOKIE HC  or a power hungry ego maniac paranoid schizo like Josh McDaniels insists on bringing in his hand picked GM then don't do it. 

 
If people can't spend a few minutes passively listening to some explosive insights  into a prospective coach then we have no chance at getting someone who will succeed.  Seriously, click on the link and listen.  

EDIT:  >>>>     LINK
😂😂😂😂

Dude, neither you, or I or anyone else on this board or any other internet board will have any influence on who our next coach is. Good work though! 

 
😂😂😂😂

Dude, neither you, or I or anyone else on this board or any other internet board will have any influence on who our next coach is. Good work though! 
Apparently that is reserved for homeless guys recommending the next QB.  Yer right.  Just make dumb passive aggressive posts and rip anyone who shares information or insight because ya know we have no voice so shut up and just make dumb jokes.  Got it.  Enriching for the mind soul and body.   Nourishing, productive, makes the person posting dumb things feel good. 

 
Apparently that is reserved for homeless guys recommending the next QB.  Yer right.  Just make dumb passive aggressive posts and rip anyone who shares information or insight because ya know we have no voice so shut up and just make dumb jokes.  Got it.  Enriching for the mind soul and body.   Nourishing, productive, makes the person posting dumb things feel good. 
Dude, relax! I’m hoping for a great 2020 and that the Browns finally get it right! All the best to you and your family! 

 
Here come the stories/leaks as @beer 30 noted with the athletic link.

How about the predraft meeting where DePodesto provided Dorsey and staff with a binder containing thousands of evaluations. After DePo Left the room, Dorsey threw the hinder in the trashcan in front of the staff and said, "now let's talk football boys".

Same source noted how Haslems found out in Dec, did some legwork to realize the toxic environment Dorsey created.

I'm reading thru others, but this sums up the relationship between the two guys the Haslems were counting on to lead this franchise.

 
Here come the stories/leaks as @beer 30 noted with the athletic link.

How about the predraft meeting where DePodesto provided Dorsey and staff with a binder containing thousands of evaluations. After DePo Left the room, Dorsey threw the hinder in the trashcan in front of the staff and said, "now let's talk football boys".

Same source noted how Haslems found out in Dec, did some legwork to realize the toxic environment Dorsey created.

I'm reading thru others, but this sums up the relationship between the two guys the Haslems were counting on to lead this franchise.
This is why I mentioned leaks last month. This stuff (and others) has been floating around, but it's obviously been unsubstantiated. Look at third hand info side eyed, but I thought dismissing it would be silly. Wait and see. Now we are seeing it and there may be more.

Freddie was just a symptom of the disease, Dorsey. 

 
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
The job title for Paul DePodesta — #Browns chief strategy officer — has not changed, but after a few days of mixed messages to candidates from the organization, DePodesta is now the one running the head coach hiring process for the Haslams, source said. Should be more directed.

 
This is why I mentioned leaks last month. This stuff (and others) has been floating around, but it's obviously been unsubstantiated. Look at third hand info side eyed, but I thought dismissing it would be silly. Wait and see. Now we are seeing it and there may be more.

Freddie was just a symptom of the disease, Dorsey. 
Sure is looking like that now. I'm trying to find links/sources, but also heard/read that Dorsey was telling Freddie who to play and who to sit, leaving Freddie to discipline players and follow through with Dorsey's demands. No wonder there was no consistency, rhyme or reason to who was starting and who wasn't.

The more I read, the more Dorsey appears as an ego maniac who did anything and everything to maintain his place of importance within the org.

 
but also heard/read that Dorsey was telling Freddie who to play and who to sit, leaving Freddie to discipline players and follow through with Dorsey's demands. No wonder there was no consistency, rhyme or reason to who was starting and who wasn't.
That's the big one I'm waiting on. When that one entered my orbit I had trouble picking my jaw up off the ground. 

 
Freddie was just a symptom of the disease, Dorsey. 
New Years movie.  When Harry Met Sally:

Jess:
Marriages don't break up on account of infidelity. It's just a symptom that something else is wrong.

Harry Burns:
Oh really? Well, that "symptom" is f***ing my wife.

-----------------

The best QB since Kosar.

The best RB duo  since Mack/Byner and Chubb is better than  Mack and Hunt is better than Byner so best since JB and Bobby Mitchell.

Disease.

Best WR duo in the history of the team.

Sashi 24 picks in two years, worst record in history of the NFL,  hired Hue Jackson.  

Not a disease.

 
So, his detractors are sniping in the last word while he has thus far remained silent.  Detractors who have accomplished exactly what?  Dorsey will be fine.  The Browns, well they will be lead by Haslem.  That's like being lead by Daniel Synder but not as good as being lead by Jerry Jones.

 
So, his detractors are sniping in the last word while he has thus far remained silent.  Detractors who have accomplished exactly what?  Dorsey will be fine.  The Browns, well they will be lead by Haslem.  That's like being lead by Daniel Synder but not as good as being lead by Jerry Jones.
I don't think anyone is claiming ownership is going to get it right. There's only reasons to believe they won't. 

 
wasn’t Haslam the one that spent 1 Million dollars on a study that concluded that the Browns should draft Bridgewater?

and then drafted Manziel?

and he’s firing Dorsey for throwing a report in the trash? 
 

this franchise is a joke. 

 
and he’s firing Dorsey for throwing a report in the trash? 
Yes he did do those things, but I know you are aware of Haslem's flaws. He hired DePo and Dorsey to bring together both worlds. A boardroom approach where he could hear from all sides and keep his knee jerk (Johnny) reactions in check 

Dorsey was fired not just for throwing away a binder, but undermining the approach that Haslem was trying to implement. Dorsey undermined DePo, his staff, and brought in a coach he could control and boss around. Dorsey wanted to he the lead dog and the smartest man in the room. All he had to do was play nicely in the sandbox, but his ego wouldn't let him. Dorsey brought this on himself. 

Haslem is now trying to bring that unified front together. He sees that DePos two HC choices are thriving elsewhere. He saw what Dorsey brought to the table which led to a disastrous season. Haslem is now working with DePo and team who are interested in working together, without the backstabbing and undermining.

Dorsey did some good things as far as bringing talent in, but he also decimated the depth, tried to marry coaches and coordinators that couldn't see eye to eye, and forced his will on everyone, including players. Freddie was a horrible coach. Freddie was a yes man to Dorsey. Dorsey pulled all the strings and it didn't work. 

I'd rather fail fast, learn and move on rather than keep the wrong people in place hoping things will change.

 
not defending Dorsey, just pointing out that Haslam is a hypocrite and doesn’t have a clue how to lead this organization.  

 

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