What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Cleveland Browns (1 Viewer)

BEREA: Former Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar had some harsh comments for the St. Louis Rams’ receivers and third-string quarterback Kellen Clemens during Thursday night’s preseason game at FirstEnergy Stadium. On Saturday, Kosar received severe backlash from Rams coach Jeff Fisher and Sports Illustrated’s Peter King.

Kosar worked the telecast as an analyst for WKYC (Channel 3) alongside play-by-play announcer Jim Donovan. On multiple occasions throughout the broadcast, Kosar called the Rams’ receivers “horrible.” He later said, “I can see why Sam [bradford] has been struggling watching how bad these receivers are.” At one point, Donovan asked, “What if some of their parents are watching?” Kosar replied, “I’d be embarrassed.”

Kosar went on to say he wanted to make sure he wasn’t a friend of Rams wide receivers coach Ray Sherman, because he wasn’t doing well either.

In the fourth quarter, Donovan told a story of how Clemens signed an autograph for Pope Benedict XVI. Kosar joked, “Bless me Father for I have sinned. I have to watch him the whole fourth quarter.”

Fisher fired back on Saturday.

“First off, let me say this: The Cleveland Browns organization is a first-class organization from top to bottom and it has been that for years and years and years,” Fisher said during a news conference. “I guess I’m a little disappointed — I feel bad for them — that they had someone doing the broadcast feel the need to speak that way about players, specifically on our team and coaches for that matter. I’m just surprised that Bernie has such a lack of respect for players and for this game.

“So, to be honest with you, I lost a lot of respect for him. ... It’s highly unlikely that he knew anything about our football team but felt the need to make those comments.”

When asked about what Kosar said about Clemens, Fisher again blasted him.

“Again, Bernie’s got his issues — they’re well documented,” he said. “Kellen played well.”

Clemens told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that his family met the pope, but he didn’t sign an autograph for him. He also addressed Kosar’s criticism.

“He gave us a lot of great examples throughout his career of what it’s like to play quarterback, and how to do it at a high level,” Clemens said. “Unfortunately, he also gave us a couple of examples in his commentating career of what not to do.”

King, a senior writer for Sports Illustrated, tweeted some pointed questions about Kosar Saturday night.

“My question for Kosar after comments in Cle-StL preseason game: Were you drinking? Good guy. But waaay over the top here,” King tweeted. King later added, “If Kosar’s judgment has been impacted by concussions, then the Browns should be heavily criticized for putting him on a 3-hr telecast. ... Don’t go saying, ‘Bernie doesn’t know what he’s saying because of concussions.’ Doesn’t work that way. If you’re on air, you’re responsible.”

The Browns are reviewing the situation, a team spokesman said.

Helping each other

Browns cornerback Joe Haden has had a strong showing so far in training camp, making life tough for receivers Greg Little and Josh Gordon and intercepting several of quarterback Brandon Weeden’s passes.

Haden intercepted two Weeden passes on Saturday. The first came on a deep ball to Gordon that was slightly underthrown. The second was on an out route to wide receiver Davone Bess. Haden jumped the route for an easy interception, and had it been an actual game, he would have taken it back for a touchdown.

Each time Haden gets the best of him, Weeden asks questions. And when Weeden beats Haden on a route, the roles are reversed.

“Weeden comes to me every time I get an interception,” Haden said. “He’ll come right up to me and ask me, ‘Joe, what did you see? What could I do differently? What did you see in that route?’ ... Just letting him know that stuff. And then the same thing, I go up to Weeden, ‘Did you see me? Did you know I was going to jump this route? How did you beat me? Was I looking at you?’ I just like asking him stuff and he comes up to me asking what I saw.”

Haden said the coaching staff has given him some freedom in practice to be aggressive and go after passes with gusto. It’s been working so far.

“I’m in practice now and my coach, he just lets me see what I can get away with, just trying to jump routes and just playing what I see,” Haden said. “I like the way our coach is coaching me and letting me see what I can get away with in practice to move it along to the games.”

Haden reiterated that he wants to become an elite cornerback in the NFL this season. He’s been working on his press coverage during the offseason and in practice, improving his releases when the cornerbacks need to jam the receivers at the line of scrimmage. What also could help Haden is the improvement of the defensive line and pass rush. He liked what he saw against the Rams.

“You could see it, like I was happy that everyone else got to see it, too,” Haden said. “Everybody, all of our front seven getting active so they’re really, really good. They’re really great at rushing the passer. We need to have that little example of it. We probably called two blitzes but they were still getting after the quarterback.”

Haden gushed when asked about rookie outside linebacker Barkevious Mingo and his quickness.

“He’s a freak, man,” he said. “This dude, we watch him on film ... I’m trying to figure out why he looks like he’s running so fast but he’s moving. He looks like he’s 4.4.”

The energy defensive coordinator Ray Horton brings to his defenses is well documented. One of the mantras he’s brought to Cleveland: never stop chasing the ball.

“One of our emphasis this year is getting our D-line to the ball,” defensive end Billy Winn said. “Getting there, pursuing and making plays. That’s just one of our emphasis, hustling on every play.”

Winn turned that message into a big hit Thursday night when he leveled Rams running back Daryl Richardson. Winn was originally out of position but recovered to make the play.

“Initially, I had reached on the play, but I was able to fight back across and I saw the guy,” Winn said. “He was headed for the hole.”

It would have been the biggest hit of the night if not for nose tackle Ishmaa’ily Kitchen, who, like Winn, chased down a ball carrier from behind to deliver a bone-crushing hit. Kitchen actually knocked Rams wide receiver Brian Quick’s helmet off.

It’s commonly said some players need to get hit once before they can really “wake up” for a game. Winn wants to be on the other side of that big blow.

“You’re going out there and you’re trying to wake people up,” Winn said. “We want to be the ones laying the wood out there. You’ve already got to be awake already when you hit that field playing defense.”

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns-notebook-bernie-kosar-blasted-by-rams-coach-jeff-fisher-for-comments-during-preseason-game-1.420280?localLinksEnabled=false
I can't think of a much better name for a nose tackle than Kitchen. :football:

I really liked the part about how Haden and Weeden are communicating and trying to make each other better.

I wonder if Kosar loses his commentator job. Personally I like his frankness even if he is a bit :crazy:

 
I wonder if Kosar loses his commentator job. Personally I like his frankness even if he is a bit :crazy:
Kosar is a fantastic color analyst. He doesn't go easy on anyone but I felt he was a bit harsh on Clemmons. However his barbs were directed at both teams, basically anyone who screwed up.

If you get Kosar you understand he was agitated because the defense's of both teams were in simple press-man most plays which means a QB who can make very simple-basic reads should have been licking their chops and would isntatly make the read and go over-the-top but obviously the QBs weren't given free reign to improvise like that.

Now a guy lke BK, who may have been thee-best NFL QB at reading defenses and picking them apart, watching that was like a chess master watching two bad checker players and it was HYSTERICAL to hear his commentary from that perspective. He was obviously agitated and quite frankly, if you know that about BK and GET-IT you would find his comments HYSTERICAL and not get your panties in a bunch like Jeff Fisher.

Now lets go and take a look at good ole Jeffy and what he did last year.

He took the deal with Washington over Cleveland for the rights to draft QB Robert Griffin III where the Fisher King took a LOWER first-round draft pick, eschewed getting an EXTRA first-round pick LAST YEAR and he also turned his nose up at getting a HIGHER second-round pick LAST YEAR. Add JEFFY got the 22nd pick in the first round this year from Washington where the Browns held the 6th pick in the draft but JEFFY took the deal with Washington and everyone was patting him on the a$$ and telling him what a good boy he was, yeah right.

Jeff Fisher made the deal with his BUDDY Mike Shanahan over the Browns who came back wtih a BETTER counter offer than what they got from Washington and JEFFY'S reply was that even though the Browns got the counter offer in long before the draft, he claimed the Browns didn't get that offer in in a timely manner so he went with Mike Shanahan's offer.

Say again?

No one called out JEFFY last year when JEFFY SCREWED UP. He got lower picks last year and he got a pick that was 16 spots LOWER than the Browns pick this year. Oh and this year don't forget that the Rams had to TRADE-UP to get WR Tavon Austin so the price he took was signifcatnly less than what he turned his nose up at the Browns because he simply could have taken Austin without giving up EXTRA picks this year.

Oh but don't let the cold hard facts of JEFFY FISHER distract you from Bernie Kosar's hysterical comments during the first preseason game because JEFFY got mad.

 
Now lets go and take a look at good ole Jeffy and what he did last year.

He took the deal with Washington over Cleveland for the rights to draft QB Robert Griffin III where the Fisher King took a LOWER first-round draft pick, eschewed getting an EXTRA first-round pick LAST YEAR and he also turned his nose up at getting a HIGHER second-round pick LAST YEAR. Add JEFFY got the 22nd pick in the first round this year from Washington where the Browns held the 6th pick in the draft but JEFFY took the deal with Washington and everyone was patting him on the ### and telling him what a good boy he was, yeah right.

Jeff Fisher made the deal with his BUDDY Mike Shanahan over the Browns who came back wtih a BETTER counter offer than what they got from Washington and JEFFY'S reply was that even though the Browns got the counter offer in long before the draft, he claimed the Browns didn't get that offer in in a timely manner so he went with Mike Shanahan's offer.

Say again?

No one called out JEFFY last year when JEFFY SCREWED UP. He got lower picks last year and he got a pick that was 16 spots LOWER than the Browns pick this year. Oh and this year don't forget that the Rams had to TRADE-UP to get WR Tavon Austin so the price he took was signifcatnly less than what he turned his nose up at the Browns because he simply could have taken Austin without giving up EXTRA picks this year.

Oh but don't let the cold hard facts of JEFFY FISHER distract you from Bernie Kosar's hysterical comments during the first preseason game because JEFFY got mad.
I think the reason nobody criticizes Fisher is that nobody believes Holmgren's claim that the Browns offer was just as good or better than the Redskins.

 
I think the reason nobody criticizes Fisher is that nobody believes Holmgren's claim that the Browns offer was just as good or better than the Redskins.
I don't like what Holmgren did with his opportunity in Cleveland but he was truly pissed that the Rams turned down his offer.

Don't forget GM Tom Heckertt was either in the hospital or had just gotten out of the hospital last year for what was rumored to be a severe heart condition. He missed the Senior Bowl AND the Indy Combine and THAT is when Washington made their offer when Tom Heckertt was dealing with a severe illness and Holmgren was hand-tied but even if you don't believe we didn't make a counter offer, I do and I believe it was just as the RAMS said.

THEY, the RAMS said we didn't get our offer in to them in a timely manner. THEY never said a jot about our offer not matching the exact same draft picks that they got from Washington.

I'm not sure why you or anyone would try to cover JEFFY'S butt by claiming we didn't counter with the same package of draft picks which were better and when Fisher openly has embraced Mike Shanahan so that connection isn't and has never been questioned, its a fact.

Its much easier to see that it was a buddy-buddy deal by JEFFY and Mike Shanahan where JEFFY took lower offer from his buddy. If you doubt Fisher would do something like that then take a look at what he did with his defensive coordinator situation this off-season with the whole Rob Ryan fiasco that blew up in his face when it was well-known that Jeff Fisher got his NFL coaching start from Rob and Rex's father Buddy Ryan and everyone was saying he hired Rob due to long-standing loyalty to Buddy Ryan.

JEFFY has shown his loyaltry stripes in far more damning ways than the buddy-buddy deal he made with Mike Shanahan over the better counter he got from the Browns.

 
Do you realize that calling Jeff Fisher JEFFY over and over and over again makes you sound like an impetuous child throwing a temper tantrum?

The Rams didn't want a counter offer, the instructions were specific: throw your very best offer on the table by the deadline, we're taking the best one. You get one shot. The Browns didn't do that, they ####ed out and waited to see how high the Redskins were willing to go. Then they #####ed about it out of sour grapes after the fact, spouting off about their invalid, late offer.

If you think Fisher would take a MUCH lower offer for that draft pick because of a friendship with Shanahan, you're a child in denial. If anything, because of that friendship Shanahan had with Fisher, he knew when he said you get ONE shot at making your best offer before the draft, he was serious. And the Redskins operated under those rules, and gave their best offer.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
They knew Heckertt was severely ill and that was the reason why Washington made their offer at THAT TIME, when our GM was bed ridden.

Anyone with a brain or an ounce of empathy would have made an exception but JEFFY and too damn bad if you don't like it when i call him JEFFY because I don't like him and your right I am pissed at him for turning his nose up at making the best and most reasonable deal that he received so he could make a handshake deal with his buddy just as Holmgren accused him off and where everyone said, oh its just sour grapes and let JEFFY off the hook.

He's got no right to go after Kosar or anyone from the Browns. Screw him and the horse he road into town on.

 
They knew Heckertt was severely ill and that was the reason why Washington made their offer at THAT TIME, when our GM was bed ridden.

Anyone with a brain or an ounce of empathy would have made an exception but JEFFY and too damn bad if you don't like it when i call him JEFFY because I don't like him and your right I am pissed at him for turning his nose up at making the best and most reasonable deal that he received so he could make a handshake deal with his buddy just as Holmgren accused him off and where everyone said, oh its just sour grapes and let JEFFY off the hook.

He's got no right to go after Kosar or anyone from the Browns. Screw him and the horse he road into town on.
This is obviously not going to be a rational conversation, but I'll try. I did come into your thread, after all.

Washington did not choose to make an offer at that time, or for that reason. It was WELL known that the Redskins and Browns were interested in that pick, so there was no need to wait until the draft. There was already a de-facto bidding war for the pick, so they made a decision.

The Rams wanted to make the unusual pre-draft deal because it would allow them to plan better, knowing exactly what their resources were and where they'd be drafting from. They did not want to make a draft day trade, they decided when they wanted to deal and they gave a deadline.

It was NOT a buddy buddy handshake deal. It was known that there was a deadline to make their best offer, and only ONE team followed those instructions properly, took it seriously, and did as was asked by the Rams so the Rams could get on with their draft planning. The Browns tried to get cute and undercut the Skins offer after they knew what it was. That's not what the deal with the Rams was, and Shanahan knew Fisher wouldn't take kindly to that kind of game playing. So he didn't try.

 
This is obviously not going to be a rational conversation, but I'll try. I did come into your thread, after all.

Washington did not choose to make an offer at that time, or for that reason. It was WELL known that the Redskins and Browns were interested in that pick, so there was no need to wait until the draft. There was already a de-facto bidding war for the pick, so they made a decision.

The Rams wanted to make the unusual pre-draft deal because it would allow them to plan better, knowing exactly what their resources were and where they'd be drafting from. They did not want to make a draft day trade, they decided when they wanted to deal and they gave a deadline.

It was NOT a buddy buddy handshake deal. It was known that there was a deadline to make their best offer, and only ONE team followed those instructions properly, took it seriously, and did as was asked by the Rams so the Rams could get on with their draft planning. The Browns tried to get cute and undercut the Skins offer after they knew what it was. That's not what the deal with the Rams was, and Shanahan knew Fisher wouldn't take kindly to that kind of game playing. So he didn't try.
You are more than welcome to drop into any thread, this isn't an exclusive club.

The Browns and Washington had standing offers on the table.

Heckertt was ill and didn't make it to the Combine after missing the Senior Bowl, he was in the hospital but the club publically said it would not comment on his illness or condition but rumor mill chured out a severe heart condition which would make sense considering the time line and how serious it was for an NFL GM to miss both the Senior Bowl and the Combine.

Mike was gravely ill.

Washington did INCREASE their offer to add in the extra pick and when St. Louis put in the stipulation that they had set an arbitrary deadline which would obviously help out JEFFY'S buddy Mike Shanahan when everyone knew Heckertt was ill.

Why make that timeline stipulation weeks before the draft when he had TWO TEAMS fighting to move up? Especially when one GM was ill and very reasonably would want or need time just to recuperate and get his best offer on the table.

And why in the heck would Holmgren be soo angry and come out with the fact that the Browns made a counter off and the Rams reply was, too bad too late?

Too late weeks before the draft? When the competing GM who had already made an offer and was interested and was responsible for getting that counter offer in was obviously ill and bed ridden?

Holmgren made his accusation and everyone did say it was sour grapes and let JEFFY off the hook.

Oh and the Browns not only were making offers to move-up with the Rams they also offered their first round pick, fourth overall, for QB Sam Bradford so the Rams could have come away from last year's draft with both QB RG III AND RB Trent Richardson and quite frankly the rams probably would have gotten the Browns other first round pick from last year, 22nd to really come away with a bounty.

JEFFY got props for the deal he made but no one has really grilled him for the deals he thumbed his nose at but now he decides to rip into Bernie Kosar who has had blood drained from his brain and who suffers from slurred speech and who does go off the handle and is heavy handed in his comments.

Words VS. truly stupid GM moves.

Words VS. RG III AND T-Rich and ???

I don't give JEFFY any room to rip into Bernie Kosar.

You got your QB, good for you but don't try to sway me that JEFFY had to get his answer in at some arbirtrary time-line and that the Browns never made a counter that surpassed what he got from Washington.

We'll disagree on that one but you're more than welcome anytime to drop in an add your two cents but I've had my say on that one.

 
It wasn't tactful, but he was right. The rams were mostly embarrassing in that game.
BK's comments in a vaccum would seem harsh but they weren't made in a vaccum. His POV was as an agitated former NFL QB who took shots at all of the QBs on both sides for not being aggressive enough and failing to go deep however he praised Rams QB Sam Bradford when he did. He openly and efussively praised Sam Bradford on the deep pass he connected on and said something like 'That was a thing of beauty, that's what you want your QB doing.' or something along those lines. He is an unabashed cheerleader for the QB and aggressive play calling, that is what he is all about, loving the passing game and he rips into anything that doesn't mesh with an aggressive passing game.

Fisher was probably cornerned by the press with the comments from Kosar when he made his retort but he was probably not in the most pleasant disposition because his team had just lost and they did not look good and I think he was mad at new Browns DC Ray Horton who did not play vanilla defense and was dialing up the heat all game long.

The Browns actually pulled their first string defense early while the Rams kept their first unit offense on the field into the second quarter, after Cleveland yanked their starters so it was the Browns second-team D who primarily faced the Rams first unit offense but Horton was calling blitzes all game long however that is because its a new and complicated defense and this is the only time those second stringers got long looks and very likely needed the work.

Fisher was probably cornered when he made his retort but his team had just lost and they did not look good in many aspects of play, WR, RB fumbled on fourth offensive snap and turned it over, defensive breakdowns couldn't stop the Browns first string offense, special teams, BUT one other thing he probably was not pleased with was the Browns DC Ray Horton kept dialing up the heat all game long.

"The first game is never an indication of where you're at, because there's so many different things going on," Fisher said. "We had one period to prepare for them, and that's certainly not enough considering what they were doing defensively."
TRead more





here: http://www.bnd.com/2013/08/08/2735399/weeden-sharp-browns-blast-rams.html#storylink=cpy
Clemmons laughed off BK's comments but Fisher felt he was attacking his guys and when Kosar took a jab at his WR coach I think Jeff felt he had to fire back at BK. He should realize he's making millions of dollars while on the other side BK lost evertything, his family, wife, and declared bankruptcy before he found out he had been suffering from the brain damage from many hits he took in his career. People have to be forgiving with former NFL players who suffer from brain damage and are in constant pain, it has effected everthing about him.

After his diagnosis and treatment where he had blood drained from his brain he is begining to put his life back in order. He was hired by the Browns organization, he is with a nice lady, and I think he provides one hell of an entertaining and informative color commentary, the best I have heard.

 
Totallyaagree about bernie, his frustration stemmed from his style of qb play. The rams backups played awful against a vanilla defense. The first unit wrs made Bradford look bad. He ripped them. Good for him.

 
This is obviously not going to be a rational conversation, but I'll try. I did come into your thread, after all.

Washington did not choose to make an offer at that time, or for that reason. It was WELL known that the Redskins and Browns were interested in that pick, so there was no need to wait until the draft. There was already a de-facto bidding war for the pick, so they made a decision.

The Rams wanted to make the unusual pre-draft deal because it would allow them to plan better, knowing exactly what their resources were and where they'd be drafting from. They did not want to make a draft day trade, they decided when they wanted to deal and they gave a deadline.

It was NOT a buddy buddy handshake deal. It was known that there was a deadline to make their best offer, and only ONE team followed those instructions properly, took it seriously, and did as was asked by the Rams so the Rams could get on with their draft planning. The Browns tried to get cute and undercut the Skins offer after they knew what it was. That's not what the deal with the Rams was, and Shanahan knew Fisher wouldn't take kindly to that kind of game playing. So he didn't try.
You are more than welcome to drop into any thread, this isn't an exclusive club.The Browns and Washington had standing offers on the table.

Heckertt was ill and didn't make it to the Combine after missing the Senior Bowl, he was in the hospital but the club publically said it would not comment on his illness or condition but rumor mill chured out a severe heart condition which would make sense considering the time line and how serious it was for an NFL GM to miss both the Senior Bowl and the Combine.

Mike was gravely ill.

Washington did INCREASE their offer to add in the extra pick and when St. Louis put in the stipulation that they had set an arbitrary deadline which would obviously help out JEFFY'S buddy Mike Shanahan when everyone knew Heckertt was ill.

Why make that timeline stipulation weeks before the draft when he had TWO TEAMS fighting to move up? Especially when one GM was ill and very reasonably would want or need time just to recuperate and get his best offer on the table.

And why in the heck would Holmgren be soo angry and come out with the fact that the Browns made a counter off and the Rams reply was, too bad too late?

Too late weeks before the draft? When the competing GM who had already made an offer and was interested and was responsible for getting that counter offer in was obviously ill and bed ridden?

Holmgren made his accusation and everyone did say it was sour grapes and let JEFFY off the hook.

Oh and the Browns not only were making offers to move-up with the Rams they also offered their first round pick, fourth overall, for QB Sam Bradford so the Rams could have come away from last year's draft with both QB RG III AND RB Trent Richardson and quite frankly the rams probably would have gotten the Browns other first round pick from last year, 22nd to really come away with a bounty.

JEFFY got props for the deal he made but no one has really grilled him for the deals he thumbed his nose at but now he decides to rip into Bernie Kosar who has had blood drained from his brain and who suffers from slurred speech and who does go off the handle and is heavy handed in his comments.

Words VS. truly stupid GM moves.

Words VS. RG III AND T-Rich and ???

I don't give JEFFY any room to rip into Bernie Kosar.

You got your QB, good for you but don't try to sway me that JEFFY had to get his answer in at some arbirtrary time-line and that the Browns never made a counter that surpassed what he got from Washington.

We'll disagree on that one but you're more than welcome anytime to drop in an add your two cents but I've had my say on that one.
Occam's razor: the simplest explanation is almost always the true explanation.Either Fischer and Shanny conspired against the browns and Washington coordinated its underhanded attack to take advantage of Heckert's being in the hospital, with the 'behind closed door wink wink handshake' approval of Fischer that Washington would get the pick no matter how good the Browns offer was (which would be to the absolute detriment of the team he works for)...

Or the Browns simply couldn't get their act together in a timely enough fashion for the Rams, and Holmgren got all cry baby whiny pants about it.

Which explanation is more likely? Yours (and apparently BK's.. I didn't see the commentary) theory is interesting and ripe with intrigue and drama, but it's more than likely B. S.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
In a meaningless preseason game, when you suggest the family of players on the field should be embarrassed, you have gone too far.

If Kosar wan't such a sympathetic figure, he'd be a joke.

 
Occam's razor: the simplest explanation is almost always the true explanation.
Yes, the simpllest explanation is almost always the true explanation, err unless it isn't.

Signed, the flat earth theory that was the easiest explanation for milleniums and is still believed by some who accept the easiest explanation is almost always the true explanation..

 
Occam's razor: the simplest explanation is almost always the true explanation.
Yes, the simpllest explanation is almost always the true explanation, err unless it isn't.Signed, the flat earth theory that was the easiest explanation for milleniums and is still believed by some who accept the easiest explanation is almost always the true explanation..
Sorry to derail the thread...

No one ever really believed the earth was flat. That's a myth. Look out onto the ocean at a ship coming to shore on the horizon. You see the top if the sail before the rest of the boat. That's all it takes to know the earth is round.

Carry on.

 
In a meaningless preseason game, when you suggest the family of players on the field should be embarrassed, you have gone too far.

If Kosar wan't such a sympathetic figure, he'd be a joke.
Zippy, go peddle your pin head takes someplace where you're not considered a joke.

These are the words of Bernie Kosar as the color analyst who dropped more football knowledge than the turds you constantly dish as takes on this board.

Bernie Kosar: "You could see the Browns, showing blitz there. Sam Bradford, going into his fourth year, should be able to easily read that that was a bluff on the blitz by the way the safety and the cornerbacks. Safety was way off, cornerbacks had outside techniques on both outside receivers. The linemen were fooled, as they usually are."

Bernie Kosar: "Both defensive coaches, and this is for the first preseason game, won't be like this in the regular season. You can very easily read these coverages, so both Brandon [Weeden] and Sam Bradford should have a very good feel before the snap as to what the coverage is and where your open receiver could be."

Bernie Kosar: "You can get away with this in preseason. That's man coverage -- in the NFL in the regular season, that guy is going to be tight on him, not typically letting the back get free like that. But, like D'Qwell had pass protection there, in man coverage, everybody just runs off. So if [Jackson] misses him, it's clear sailing to the second level of running."

Bernie Kosar: "Yeah, definitely a fumble, as I was trying to say before the break, to see the overhead view, they're basically on the left hash, and into the boundary they put all of the receivers. In the NFL, every defensive guy is going to scrape and run right to that. That has no chance of success."

Bernie Kosar: "That was actually a running play to the left. This is eye contact between the quarterback and the receiver. When you have a defensive back off 8-10 yards like that on your receiver, you can get the ball up and down to him quick before the linemen get down field and the refs call illegal man downfield on the running back."

Bernie Kosar: "Also here, notice that Barnidge is in. He comes over with Chud from Carolina. He's probably one of the better blocking tight ends that we have. And, Jordan Cameron drops that ball (brief laugh) in the red zone. Now he's not in the game and Barnidge is."

Bernie Kosar: "That was the formation I was just complaining about with St. Louis. But here, you see Coach [Norv] Turner calls it the way you're supposed to -- the ball is on the left hash, you have all the receivers to the right. St. Louis is thinking the ball is going to be coming to the right, then you do a little playaction pass screen back to the right side, catches St. Louis undisciplined in the rush lanes. That's why you see a big play like that."

Bernie Kosar: "Nice timing on just a basic crossing route here. You can see St. Louis and Coach Fisher's a man-coverage, pressure team. They've been playing a lot of base cover-3 today, they just don't have the discipline and structure to play zone coverage and blow the slot flat coverage lane. Cameron's able to catch the ball, and not only catch it, but turn it up and make a big play."

Bernie Kosar: "Just basic cover-3, only rushing four. Horrible job by the offensive line, and a BEAUTIFUL throw by Sam Bradford under pressure. "

Jim Donovan: "Do you like Bradford?"

Bernie Kosar: "I like that play right there. I haven't seen enough of him. He's really at the crossroads of his career. Does he take that next step to get into the level that his athleticism says he should be?"

Bernie Kosar: "Again, nice job by Bradford standing in there. I really think that he didn't overthrow him, and that Austin has to make that catch in the NFL. And I see why Sam's been struggling watching how bad these receivers are for him. Those are two outstanding throws, those last two."

Bernie Kosar: "There's going to be a lot of grumpy defensive coaches here. That's just base cover-3, that's a zone coverage. There should be a weak safety in the middle of the field there. Beautiful throw by Sam Bradford there, that's awesome."

Bernie Kosar: "Sam had the guy wide open in the flat for the easy touchdown. He purposely throws this high to get it over the linebacker's head. This is perfect accuracy. I loved watching him throw the ball, that was a fantastic series. That'll be the last we see of Sam tonight."

THIS is the reason why Fisher and Peter 'have another piece of cake tubby' King jumped on BK. He was OBVIOUSLY not serious and was laughing as he said the following.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jim Donovan: "Davis, throwing, incomplete, off the hands of his intended receiver, Nick Johnson, who was free out over the 35-yard line. St. Louis will have to give the ball back on a punt."

Bernie Kosar: "Yeah, a blitz to the top of the screen. It's actually not a bad throw...these St. Louis receivers are horrible. That's a drop there on the out-and-up on the go. The guy does his break four yards in front of the DB."

Jim Donovan: (laughing) "What if some of their parents are watching?"

Bernie Kosar: "(laughing with him) I would be embarrassed."

Bernie Kosar: "I'm checking through the itinerary of guys and coaches to see who the receivers coach is, to make sure I don't know who this guy is, because he's not doing very good either."

Bernie Kosar: "I'm going to trade any amount of money I get to announce these games for a telestrator. For that read (laughing) to be thrown into double coverage like that, I mean that's blatantly man underneath, safety over the top. No good coordinator wants that on film that that's how you coach things."

Jim Donovan: "(laughing) Now if you're a good boy the rest of the night, maybe we'll get the telestrator."

Bernie Kosar: "(laughing) I won't be because the next quarterback in [Clemons], me and him haven't done too well with each other too."

Jim Donovan: "Kellen Clemons is in at quarterback."

Bernie Kosar: "I've been waiting for this one all day. The last time I was a bad boy and I was punished (laughing) to watch him play quarterback, was the day Brett Favre was traded to the New York Jets. The Jets were playing the Browns in the preseason game. Kellen Clemons was supposed to be their starting quarterback and I saw why they traded for Brett Favre."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Somebody call the PC Police and make a federal case of those words. Oh wait, they already have.

More BK.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bernie Kosar: "I'm not trying to be a homer to take care of our quarterback here. This young receiver's been doing a nice job in camp on the outside routes. Here he is coming out of a six route, coming out of a square in, he came out, but he didn't get out of it sharply. Actually, Brian Hoyer's pass was perfect if the receiver runs the route the way an NFL receiver is supposed to run routes."

Bernie Kosar: [pre-snap] "They've got press coverage outside. St. Louis hasn't taken advantage of it all day." [QB turns and hands the ball off] "And they still don't."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can read the rest here.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2013/8/11/4611368/browns-bernie-kosar-the-real-representation-of-his-commentary-against

 
Bracie, take your meds, there was no conspiracy behind that trade.

the Browns just didn't get it done. it happens.

 
In a meaningless preseason game, when you suggest the family of players on the field should be embarrassed, you have gone too far.

If Kosar wan't such a sympathetic figure, he'd be a joke.
Zippy, go peddle your pin head takes someplace where you're not considered a joke.

These are the words of Bernie Kosar as the color analyst who dropped more football knowledge than the turds you constantly dish as takes on this board.
I think you might be losing it.

 
I've got to say I was actually pleased after watching the 1st pre-season game - and maybe even a little optimistic, which doesn't come easy as a browns fan. They looked well coached and as impressive as any NFL team can in their first EX game. And that was w/o TR. Hopefully they'll build on this and maybe get a truly competitive team in the next year or two.

RE: Bernie. Living in Colorado, I don't get much browns coverage, and I watched it *live* on NFLN, so I heard most of it then. And I thought it was great (and a little funny). Everything he said was justifiable (except maybe their parents should be embarrassed). And he was very complimentary of Bradford early on. Screw Fisher if he gets all riled up over that. Once you get past Bernie's voice, he really is a good color guy. Sometimes the truth hurts.

 
How are people feeling about all of the below being worth rostering this year for the Browns - can they all succeed? I'm high on all of them until I start to wonder if it's worthwhile to invest in more than any more than one.

Weeden

Gordon

Benjamin

Cameron

Richardson (well leave him out of it, obvious)

 
In a meaningless preseason game, when you suggest the family of players on the field should be embarrassed, you have gone too far.

If Kosar wan't such a sympathetic figure, he'd be a joke.
You are the biggest joke on these boards. Just awful and inane commentary that makes it seem like you are living in your own little shack in the middle of nowhere.

 
How are people feeling about all of the below being worth rostering this year for the Browns - can they all succeed? I'm high on all of them until I start to wonder if it's worthwhile to invest in more than any more than one.

Weeden

Gordon

Benjamin

Cameron

Richardson (well leave him out of it, obvious)
I might even add Little to the list as a upside late round lotto ticket. He'll be getting the off coverage (after week 3) w/ Gordon drawing the better CBs. RB Jordan is at least a handcuff, and maybe more if they can get him on the field. Norv did introduce the league to Sproles several years ago.

 
How are people feeling about all of the below being worth rostering this year for the Browns - can they all succeed? I'm high on all of them until I start to wonder if it's worthwhile to invest in more than any more than one.

Weeden

Gordon

Benjamin

Cameron

Richardson (well leave him out of it, obvious)
I'm a Benjamin owner and he's supposedly having a great camp, but it's hard to get too excited about his prospects unless you play a return man in your league. After Gordon's suspension is over, he's probably the 4th WR which will limit his snaps.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
There seems to be glimmers of hope for Brown fans. The organization seems to be "organized" and structured. They are assembling a solid D and a good oline. If some of the weapons on offense can blossom they have a chance to make some noise in their division.

 
didn't get to see the first half, but if they are truely starting to look like an NFL team, IMO you have to thank Heckert and to a lesser extent Savage before him.

 
didn't get to see the first half, but if they are truely starting to look like an NFL team, IMO you have to thank Heckert and to a lesser extent Savage before him.
coaching more important. I want to watch again to be sure but I think weeden stared down every single wr tonight. Noticed it game one too. That needs fixed.

 
didn't get to see the first half, but if they are truely starting to look like an NFL team, IMO you have to thank Heckert and to a lesser extent Savage before him.
coaching more important.I want to watch again to be sure but I think weeden stared down every single wr tonight. Noticed it game one too. That needs fixed.
That was a complaint from many Brown fans last year. These guys face VANILLA in the preseason and people get jacked up over the performances. I like what Cleveland has done but am not too knowledgeable on Weeden's progress.

 
This is obviously not going to be a rational conversation, but I'll try. I did come into your thread, after all.

Washington did not choose to make an offer at that time, or for that reason. It was WELL known that the Redskins and Browns were interested in that pick, so there was no need to wait until the draft. There was already a de-facto bidding war for the pick, so they made a decision.

The Rams wanted to make the unusual pre-draft deal because it would allow them to plan better, knowing exactly what their resources were and where they'd be drafting from. They did not want to make a draft day trade, they decided when they wanted to deal and they gave a deadline.

It was NOT a buddy buddy handshake deal. It was known that there was a deadline to make their best offer, and only ONE team followed those instructions properly, took it seriously, and did as was asked by the Rams so the Rams could get on with their draft planning. The Browns tried to get cute and undercut the Skins offer after they knew what it was. That's not what the deal with the Rams was, and Shanahan knew Fisher wouldn't take kindly to that kind of game playing. So he didn't try.
You are more than welcome to drop into any thread, this isn't an exclusive club.

The Browns and Washington had standing offers on the table.

Heckertt was ill and didn't make it to the Combine after missing the Senior Bowl, he was in the hospital but the club publically said it would not comment on his illness or condition but rumor mill chured out a severe heart condition which would make sense considering the time line and how serious it was for an NFL GM to miss both the Senior Bowl and the Combine.

Mike was gravely ill.

Washington did INCREASE their offer to add in the extra pick and when St. Louis put in the stipulation that they had set an arbitrary deadline which would obviously help out JEFFY'S buddy Mike Shanahan when everyone knew Heckertt was ill.

Why make that timeline stipulation weeks before the draft when he had TWO TEAMS fighting to move up? Especially when one GM was ill and very reasonably would want or need time just to recuperate and get his best offer on the table.

And why in the heck would Holmgren be soo angry and come out with the fact that the Browns made a counter off and the Rams reply was, too bad too late?

Too late weeks before the draft? When the competing GM who had already made an offer and was interested and was responsible for getting that counter offer in was obviously ill and bed ridden?

Holmgren made his accusation and everyone did say it was sour grapes and let JEFFY off the hook.

Oh and the Browns not only were making offers to move-up with the Rams they also offered their first round pick, fourth overall, for QB Sam Bradford so the Rams could have come away from last year's draft with both QB RG III AND RB Trent Richardson and quite frankly the rams probably would have gotten the Browns other first round pick from last year, 22nd to really come away with a bounty.

JEFFY got props for the deal he made but no one has really grilled him for the deals he thumbed his nose at but now he decides to rip into Bernie Kosar who has had blood drained from his brain and who suffers from slurred speech and who does go off the handle and is heavy handed in his comments.

Words VS. truly stupid GM moves.

Words VS. RG III AND T-Rich and ???

I don't give JEFFY any room to rip into Bernie Kosar.

You got your QB, good for you but don't try to sway me that JEFFY had to get his answer in at some arbirtrary time-line and that the Browns never made a counter that surpassed what he got from Washington.

We'll disagree on that one but you're more than welcome anytime to drop in an add your two cents but I've had my say on that one.
peter king in his MMQB from that time addressed this, skip down to last section (on this page - 2), titled one clarification... seems pretty straightforward to me...

king went over a scenario in which it made sense for the rams to get redskins and browns best possible offer in a one shot sealed bid auction...

you are aware it was a sealed bid, right? that isn't in dispute? than if redskins made best offer, and browns tried to top it later, and snead reneged on his promise to redskins, that would make him a liar, tarnished his reputation, and possibly make future trades more difficult, with the entire league...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/03/19/signings/1.html

another report from that time, by PFT... one question they have, how was anybody to know if offer made by browns was better, since he didn't reveal their offer at time of complaint?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/16/holmgren-gripes-about-griffin-trade/

the most gaping hole in your analysis about JEFFY is the complete, wanton disregard for the fact that maybe the redskins did better (and thus your contention that rams got lower first round pick in 2013 than they WOULD HAVE if they made deal with browns - i think it came out later that browns would not have been including 2014 first like redskins, so 2014 part of equation would be moot) BECAUSE of RGIII... if browns had got him instead, maybe THEY would have done better, and thus rams would have gotten a lower first in 2013 than the one browns had WITHOUT RGIII... and presumably the redskins wouldn't have fared as well as they did WITH RGIII... in such an alternate, parallel NFL tradescape universe, than some WAS fans might have berated and lambasted JEFFY for how foolish he was to forsake the package that included future first rounders that surely would have been higher and better... :)

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Zac Jackson (@FSOhioZJackson) tweeted at 10:50 PM on Thu, Aug 15, 2013:

Mingo - bruised lung, overnight in hospital. Per Chud. Dion Lewis fractured fibula. #Browns

So Mingo with a bruised lung too.

 
I think I ask this every preseason, but are we SURE Bernie isn't boozing it up in the booth like Bob Uecker in Major League? :lol:
How long has he been affiliated with the Browns now? Of course he's boozing it up.
:thumbup:

The DET-CLE replay is on NFLN right now if anyone cares.
Fudge. Too late for the DVR and I am stuck at work. Someone else, watch Weeden's eyes and make sure I'm not crazy. I swear they never left his target on any plays and he made zero good throws under pressure. I want to watch again and hope I'm wrong though. Happy to see his feet actually moving in the pocket some though.

 
Someone else did the work for me, see below

http://nflphilosophy.com/nfl-preseason-week-2-notes-detroit-lions-at-cleveland-browns/

Brandon Weeden’s most critical issue as a QB is that he stares down his receivers with great frequency. He needs to master the art of eye manipulation and he could become a very good QB in the NFL. Weeden’s tendency to stare down receivers will be the main reason for most of his interceptions.
His string of tweets and photos at the end tell a good story.

 
FWIW the tweets are breaking down his first throw. It was the most noticeable on that throw. After that he was not as obvious.

 
That's good news, they were razor thin at guard. Anyone know anything about the guy they traded for?

Somehow I have stacked my dynasty team with Browns. Trich, Weeden, and Little. I need my head examined.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Moffitt started 6 games for Seattle in 2012, 9 in 2011

Moffitt was drafted number 75 overall by the Seattle Seahawks in the 2011 NFL Draft. During the live ESPN coverage of the draft, Moffitt was termed "unathletic" and "a reach" by ESPN analyst Todd McShay.[citation needed] Moffitt started nine games in the 2011 season before being injured in the week-13 game against the Baltimore Ravens.[7]

Moffitt was traded to the Cleveland Browns on August 19, 2013.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top