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wadegarrett

**** CLEVELAND BROWNS THREAD ****

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It's amazing how fast things can change. This is Michael Lombardi right before the 2012 draft:

1. I believe the safest pick in the draft -- beyond Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III -- is Alabama running back Trent Richardson. He's a blue-chip player and has all the skills to quickly establish himself as a top-five player at his position. Forget the nonsense about not taking backs early -- everyone would love the chance to get this guy.

More than a season of mediocre (at best) performance has a way of doing that. Congrats Browns' fans -- brilliant move for the team IMO.

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i'm going to listen to Holmgren, who had his chance to fix this #### show and failed? riiiighttt...

Mike, if you're so ####### smart why did they go 14-34 when you were there?

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I am shocked that the Browns didn't receive more in compenstion.

meanwhile the rest of the world is shocked that they were able to get a 1st round pick for an unproven RB. The Jets got a mid 1st and a 3rd/4th for Revis, a top player at a premier position.

Only one of those guys was coming off of a bad ACL tear.
exactly. Revis would've cost at least 2 firsts of he was fully healthy.

RBs just aren't valued much in real football.

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i'm going to listen to Holmgren, who had his chance to fix this #### show and failed? riiiighttt...

Mike, if you're so ####### smart why did they go 14-34 when you were there?

:goodposting:

Also, I think I'd take the trio of Hoyer, Gordon and McGahee over Weeden, Little and TRich. I think the offense is going to be better this week than the past 2 weeks. Any other Browns fans leaning that way?

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i'm going to listen to Holmgren, who had his chance to fix this #### show and failed? riiiighttt...

Mike, if you're so ####### smart why did they go 14-34 when you were there?

if they go 7-41 with the new guys mike will look like a genius

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i'm going to listen to Holmgren, who had his chance to fix this #### show and failed? riiiighttt...

Mike, if you're so ####### smart why did they go 14-34 when you were there?

if they go 7-41 with the new guys mike will look like a genius
always a possibility in Cleveland.

genius is a strong word though.

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i'm going to listen to Holmgren, who had his chance to fix this #### show and failed? riiiighttt...

Mike, if you're so ####### smart why did they go 14-34 when you were there?

if they go 7-41 with the new guys mike will look like a genius

:goodposting:

If that happens this new management better get the #### out of town, and fast. Especially after this trade.

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Also, I think I'd take the trio of Hoyer, Gordon and McGahee over Weeden, Little and TRich. I think the offense is going to be better this week than the past 2 weeks. Any other Browns fans leaning that way?

No. I must be a few bottles behind you.

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It's amazing how fast things can change. This is Michael Lombardi right before the 2012 draft:

1. I believe the safest pick in the draft -- beyond Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III -- is Alabama running back Trent Richardson. He's a blue-chip player and has all the skills to quickly establish himself as a top-five player at his position. Forget the nonsense about not taking backs early -- everyone would love the chance to get this guy.

More than a season of mediocre (at best) performance has a way of doing that. Congrats Browns' fans -- brilliant move for the team IMO.

That's true....and also the quote above does not define "early" as it is used.

Didn't he go on record during or right after the draft on NFLN basically saying he would NOT have taken Richardson or Weeden, or traded up for either one? So those words sorta contradict this pre-draft blurb.

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Former Cleveland Brown LB and current Fox football analyst Scott Fujita's take on the T-Rich trade.

Um, verrrrrrrrrrry interesting take from a guy who isn' sitting on the outside looking-in trying to figure out the motivation to move Richardson. Scott played with Trent last year. He knows him as a team mate and he gives an intersting take.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/trent-richardson-trade-is-not-what-it-seems-browns-fans-092013

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Former Cleveland Brown LB and current Fox football analyst Scott Fujita's take on the T-Rich trade.

Um, verrrrrrrrrrry interesting take from a guy who isn' sitting on the outside looking-in trying to figure out the motivation to move Richardson. Scott played with Trent last year. He knows him as a team mate and he gives an intersting take.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/trent-richardson-trade-is-not-what-it-seems-browns-fans-092013

very interesting indeed.

i've heard he's a good kid in general.

but... you gotta wonder.

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Former Cleveland Brown LB and current Fox football analyst Scott Fujita's take on the T-Rich trade.

Um, verrrrrrrrrrry interesting take from a guy who isn' sitting on the outside looking-in trying to figure out the motivation to move Richardson. Scott played with Trent last year. He knows him as a team mate and he gives an intersting take.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/trent-richardson-trade-is-not-what-it-seems-browns-fans-092013

Wow! Scotty Fajita hatin' on Trent. I wonder if he has any connection to Lombardi...

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The check collector chimes in:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/23745639/mike-holmgren-rips-browns-wouldve-quit-after-trent-richardson-trade

Holmgren rips Browns for Richardson trade, says he would have quit

By Will Brinson | NFL Writer

September 20, 2013 8:03 am ET

The outrage surrounding the Trent Richardson trade -- Cleveland sent him to Indy for a first-round pick -- has been strong. Go ahead and add Mike Holmgren to the list of people who don't like it.

Holmgren, who actually drafted Richardson No. 3 overall in 2012, said if he was coaching the Browns they would've had to "fire me" after the deal they made.

"I struggled with it,'' Holmgren said on Sports Radio KJR via Cleveland.com. "Philosophically, if I am the coach and someone came in anywhere and did that, I'd say 'OK, fire me, or I'm going to quit. Or we're going to both go into the owner and talk about this and the we'll see who's still standing."

There's some obvious bias here, of course. Holmgren loves Richardson. He made him the Browns top-overall pick out of Alabama two years ago. He believes Richardson is too "valuable" and that the Browns aren't improving their team for 2013 by moving him to the Colts.

"How do you make your team better by trading your best player?'' he said. "He's the best offensive player. He's a valuable, valuable guy.''

In fact, Holmgren's beef appears to be the same thing Browns fans have been screaming about for 48 hours: he thinks trading Richardson amounts to tanking.

"To me, they're putting all their eggs for next season,'' said Holmgren. "They started off 0-2, they couldn't score any points, I think it was a little bit of a knee-jerk reaction. There's a little bit of a 'what's going on?' I don't know this for sure but I can sense it."

But what about the pick coming back? Well, Holmgren makes an interesting point on that. He believes the Colts selection will be somewhere in the 23 or 24 range (I'm dubious it's that high, but we'll see) and notes that to move up and get a quarterback is a pretty tough thing to do.

"Indianapolis is probably going to have a pretty good year, so that pick is probably going to be 23, 24, right in there," Holmgren said. "And to package something [to move up in the draft], we couldn't package our 4 and our 7 for [Robert Griffin III] last year and we had more ammunition."

Well, the Browns could have packaged enough to move up and get RG3. The Rams ended up doing a deal with the Redskins who gave up three first-round picks. Cleveland wasn't willing to get in on that, but they had their shot. (And would you trade Richardson, Barkevious Mingo and a first-round pick for RG3? Last year you wouldn't have hesitated.)

It's irrelevant now because Richardson is gone. The only thing is to wait and see how the new-look Colts fare. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the judgment on this deal will revolve around where Indy's pick lands in the first round come 2014.

Um, #### you Mike. Thanks for nothing

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Anybody have Shawn Lauvao news? :)

Think McGahee with Shawn Lauvao will be better than T-Rich withOUT Shawn Lauvao (from a fantasy football perspective)?

Edited by Sinners

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Fujita grasping at straws. Dude is "not buying in" b/c he wears headphones?

Reeks of trying to rationalize the trade to deflate the public outcry.

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Anybody else getting the impression they are highlighting Gordon like for an audition? He won't finish the season in a Browns uniform. He might not finish the game knowing Banner's desire to rid himself of all things old regime.

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Rotoworld:

Appearing on Sunday NFL Countdown, ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the Browns plan to pursue Texans free-agent-to-be Ben Tate in the offseason.

Tate is going to get paid by someone. After trading Trent Richardson away earlier this week, the Browns' running back of the future isn't on the roster. Willis McGahee is just a 2013 stop-gap, while Bobby Rainey and Chris Ogbonnaya are pure backups. Tate is averaging 8.2 YPC on 18 attempts this season. The Texans may not let him get away with Arian Foster showing signs of decline.

Related: Browns

Sep 22 - 11:07 AM

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Anybody else getting the impression they are highlighting Gordon like for an audition? He won't finish the season in a Browns uniform. He might not finish the game knowing Banner's desire to rid himself of all things old regime.

No, the guy is a legit WR. If they trade him, it will because they want to cash in before he has more off the field issues.

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Rotoworld:

Appearing on Sunday NFL Countdown, ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the Browns plan to pursue Texans free-agent-to-be Ben Tate in the offseason.

Tate is going to get paid by someone. After trading Trent Richardson away earlier this week, the Browns' running back of the future isn't on the roster. Willis McGahee is just a 2013 stop-gap, while Bobby Rainey and Chris Ogbonnaya are pure backups. Tate is averaging 8.2 YPC on 18 attempts this season. The Texans may not let him get away with Arian Foster showing signs of decline.

Related: Browns

Sep 22 - 11:07 AM

Can he be tagged?

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Fujita grasping at straws. Dude is "not buying in" b/c he wears headphones?

Reeks of trying to rationalize the trade to deflate the public outcry.

He owes that to the Browns? You're grasping, imo. I think it's just his opinion.

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Also, I think I'd take the trio of Hoyer, Gordon and McGahee over Weeden, Little and TRich. I think the offense is going to be better this week than the past 2 weeks. Any other Browns fans leaning that way?

No. I must be a few bottles behind you.

How about now?

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congrats to browns...

looking like jordan cameron won't be getting traded any time soon...

TEs don't have 3 TD games too often...

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Banner obviously screwed up by not trading Cameron and Gordon at halftime.

These silly wins must stop if we are going to get the number 1 pick.

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also Jordan Cameron, wow.

how exciting that this position has become a big part of the modern NFL and the Browns appear to have a great one.

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Also, I think I'd take the trio of Hoyer, Gordon and McGahee over Weeden, Little and TRich. I think the offense is going to be better this week than the past 2 weeks. Any other Browns fans leaning that way?

No. I must be a few bottles behind you.

How about now?

McGahee had 8 carries for 9 yards.

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As soon as they traded Trich everyone was on the block automatically from other team's perspectives. More than half the league probably inquired about certain players.

A Gordon trade comes down to the pipe IMO. He's really gifted on the field and it shows.

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Shredding the fat off that offense, they knew what they were doing.

Cleveland is going 8-8, their lines are too good for them to be 2-14 worthy. This is gonna be hillarious if Chud can win even 6 games with these Qbs and offense.

Maybe they trade Chud in a couple weeks, Tampa Bay likes to trade for coaches.

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I'm happy for you Cleveland fans. Congrats!

That being said, Cleveland would be INSANE to even consider trading Gordon or Cameron. That would be a shame.

I don't think Hoyer is the answer, I just think Minnesota stinks. I think this team wins 5-7 games, finishes with a top ten pick and doesn't get Bridgewater.

I think Gordon obviously opened the gameplan up, and Hoyer looks like he is better able to take advantage of it than Weeden.

I still think losing Richardson is a mistake and that they could really be something if they had him too.

But this might be one of those trades that works out great for both teams.

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Browns trying for pick number one and can't even do that right. Even when they win, they lose.

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looks a lot better than Weeden to me.

thoughts?

absolutely, helps that the bar was so low to start though.

That was a fun afternoon.

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Anybody else getting the impression they are highlighting Gordon like for an audition? He won't finish the season in a Browns uniform. He might not finish the game knowing Banner's desire to rid himself of all things old regime.

No, the guy is a legit WR. If they trade him, it will because they want to cash in before he has more off the field issues.
and his preparation.

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The separation Gordon gets is just stupid. Every time you look up, he's running all by himself.

ability is not the issue

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Also, I think I'd take the trio of Hoyer, Gordon and McGahee over Weeden, Little and TRich. I think the offense is going to be better this week than the past 2 weeks. Any other Browns fans leaning that way?

No. I must be a few bottles behind you.
How about now?
McGahee had 8 carries for 9 yards.

My initial comment wasn't limited to McGahee. I'd still take Hoyer, McGahee and Gordon over Weeden, TRich and Little.

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finding myself slightly optimistic about the rest of the season.

this weekend will be a good measure of where they're actually at.

road schedule is absolutely brutal. may not win another road game.

they could potentially win up to 5 at home though.

6-10? better than Holmgren did, anyway.

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Josh Gordon made an impact but we need to take another look and not assume he'll do what he did against Minnesota going forward. Gordon exploded back onto the scene, his first three touches he produced 99 yards and a TD.

He was targeted 19 times making 10 catches and had 1 rush. After those first three touches... On his last 17 attempts he produced 70 yards and no scores.

The Vikings D is not one of the best in the league and it could be one of weaker defenses. Defensive coordinators are going to focus on taking away or limiting Gordon going forward. They'll also be able to pick apart film on Hoyer.

The big games that Josh had and QB Brian Hoyer and TE Jordan Cameron (the special team touchdown isn't likely to happen again) could be an anomoly. We don't know if the coaches will go back to Weeden when his thumb is healed or stick with Hoyer. McGahee was signed late in the week so his poor game, 8 rushes for 9 yards, isn't indicative of what he can do so we may not see a big drop in production from what Richardson was providing but the pivit point of this season is the dynamic of WR Josh Gordon and QB Brian Hoyer.

I honestly don't see us beating the Bengals so if we lose this weekend I won't be discouraged about the rest of the season. The Bengals are strong in the front seven, they have the stud #1 WR, they have 2 talented TEs, they have an interesting rookie RB who can make big plays, their O-Line is solid, and they have talent in their defensive secondary. Add their kicker isn't nursing a sore quad. So this week they hold advantages in, defensive secondary, running back, offensive line (but Oniel Cousins did look much improved last week but this week he's got Geno Atkins on the menu so that matchup looks bad), and I'd have to give them the edge on special teams if our kicker isn't 100%.

If Gordon steps-up and develops into a consistent threat and we get healthy on the O-Line and if just get enough out of the running game to the point everything is in place then we can get a better read on whether or not Brian Hoyer can do the job at QB.

I never would have thought that Brian Hoyer could be considered as a starter but he showed enough last week where 'if the pieces are in place and he irons out the wrinkles in his game' he could be the story going forward for the team. Over 300 yards along with 3 TDs are something that Weeden hasn't done but Bri did that in his second NFL start.

IF Hoyer turns into a viable stater by the end of the year THEN with two first round picks next May the team can rapidly improve.

I think this team is more interesting than any other since the return and its due to the defensive front seven. We haven't had anything like that since the return and I love how tough Phil Taylor is playing and his nasty disposition coupled with legitimate pass rushers. I love that. Any extra hope we get on offense, like watching to see if Hoyer can develop is icing on the cake.

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The story of this season would have been the the defense hands-down but now it could wind up being QB Brian Hoyer.

Throws for 269 yards and 2 touchdowns, zero interceptions.

The two touchdown drives he engineered went 95 and 91 yards.

Impressive.

Oh and I'm sure it doesn't need to be said but I'll say it anyway.

Don't overlook the Bills on Thursday night.

They just beat Baltimore.

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Win on its way Thursday. We took them lightly last year, won't repeat the mistake.

Man if we had started hoyer instead of that bum week one...

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