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***OFFICIAL 'The Walking Dead' TV Series Thread*** (5 Viewers)

'boubucarow said:
'Jayrok said:
'boubucarow said:
'Jayrok said:
I don't think Shane froze when the girl came out. I think it had more to do with the conversation Shane had with Rick's wife. He told her Rick wasn't equipped to live in this new world, much less lead the group. Rick shooting the girl not only proved to his own group (especially Shane) that he is, after all, ready to live and lead them in this new world, and that he is ready to move on. He got closure on the girl because he felt it was his fault she got lost in the first place. But he also showed Hershel that he is prepared to treat walkers the same way, regardless of personal ties or affiliation with his group. Hershel viewed them as sick family members/friends. Rick had to shoot the girl, because if Shane had done it, the question of Rick's leadership would have remained an issue. But I have no doubt that Shane or Daryl would have shot the girl before she had a chance to hurt anyone else. But Rick needed to do it.
Click to expand...
The person that Shane professes to be, the person that is needed to survive their environment, and the person that Rick is incapable of being would have shot zombie Sophie in a split second just like all the rest of them. There was no purpose in allowing her to "live" for even a second longer except that everyone hesitated to pull the trigger. And everyone additional second she was "alive" would increase the torture for the group. It wasn't until Shane and everyone else hesitated that Rick stepped up to do what needed to be done. If you are implying that Shane hesitated solely so Rick could affirm his leadership, I don't see that at all.
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I'm not saying that Shane turned to look at Rick as if to say "your call". But I believe it was written to allow Rick to step up and make the call. As far as Shane, I don't think he ducked away from shooting her. If he had shot her the second she came out, it wouldn't have made for a season ending scene. I guess I'm saying that I don't believe the writer's intent was to show that Shane was all talk and no action, but more that Rick was the only person in that group that had to shoot the girl.
Click to expand...
I agree that it was written to allow Rick to step up. But I also think that Shane building up to take over the leadership role during the entire episode was a set up for him to fail as that leader. The scene was as much about Shane as it was Rick.
Click to expand...
I think that's a pretty interesting issue.Did Shane shy away from shooting the Sophia? I have a hard time imagining that. I don't doubt for a minute that he personally had a problem doing it.I can only think of 2 reasons he might've:1-He knew it would come off a bit too savage if he did it. If he knew that he was already starting to be viewed as out of control, it was a tactical move.2-Is it possible he doesn't want to be the leader?Still have no idea why Shane didn't do it. I know why the writers had Rick do it (more dramatic and establishes his leadership). I just don't know why Shane allowed it.
 
I think Shane couldn't bring himself to shoot a little girl that he knew. I think he was stunned to see her and froze in the moment. I don't think he was incapable of shooting her - he clearly doesn't have a problem pulling the trigger. But I think seeing Sophia caught him and everyone else by such surprise they couldn't function. Rick was the only one who was able to push through the shock and do what had to be done.

I also agree the moment was set up by the writers to compare and contrast Rick/Shane as leaders. That's been a recurring theme the entire series but it's really being driven home this season.

 
'pollardsvision said:
'boubucarow said:
'Jayrok said:
'boubucarow said:
'Jayrok said:
I don't think Shane froze when the girl came out. I think it had more to do with the conversation Shane had with Rick's wife. He told her Rick wasn't equipped to live in this new world, much less lead the group. Rick shooting the girl not only proved to his own group (especially Shane) that he is, after all, ready to live and lead them in this new world, and that he is ready to move on. He got closure on the girl because he felt it was his fault she got lost in the first place. But he also showed Hershel that he is prepared to treat walkers the same way, regardless of personal ties or affiliation with his group. Hershel viewed them as sick family members/friends. Rick had to shoot the girl, because if Shane had done it, the question of Rick's leadership would have remained an issue. But I have no doubt that Shane or Daryl would have shot the girl before she had a chance to hurt anyone else. But Rick needed to do it.
Click to expand...
The person that Shane professes to be, the person that is needed to survive their environment, and the person that Rick is incapable of being would have shot zombie Sophie in a split second just like all the rest of them. There was no purpose in allowing her to "live" for even a second longer except that everyone hesitated to pull the trigger. And everyone additional second she was "alive" would increase the torture for the group. It wasn't until Shane and everyone else hesitated that Rick stepped up to do what needed to be done. If you are implying that Shane hesitated solely so Rick could affirm his leadership, I don't see that at all.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying that Shane turned to look at Rick as if to say "your call". But I believe it was written to allow Rick to step up and make the call. As far as Shane, I don't think he ducked away from shooting her. If he had shot her the second she came out, it wouldn't have made for a season ending scene. I guess I'm saying that I don't believe the writer's intent was to show that Shane was all talk and no action, but more that Rick was the only person in that group that had to shoot the girl.
Click to expand...
I agree that it was written to allow Rick to step up. But I also think that Shane building up to take over the leadership role during the entire episode was a set up for him to fail as that leader. The scene was as much about Shane as it was Rick.
Click to expand...
I think that's a pretty interesting issue.Did Shane shy away from shooting the Sophia? I have a hard time imagining that. I don't doubt for a minute that he personally had a problem doing it.I can only think of 2 reasons he might've:1-He knew it would come off a bit too savage if he did it. If he knew that he was already starting to be viewed as out of control, it was a tactical move.2-Is it possible he doesn't want to be the leader?Still have no idea why Shane didn't do it. I know why the writers had Rick do it (more dramatic and establishes his leadership). I just don't know why Shane allowed it.
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I think option 1 is closer. He knew Dale was on to him in some respect. Maybe he didn't want to make a scene in front of the girl's mom, then have everyone hate him for it. Rick stepped up. But I don't think that means that shane would not have.
 
Maybe Shane had emptied his clip and in that time Rick took care of it.

I don't see this as a big deal, the writers want to continue the conflict for leader. If Shane had shot her then it would be more like Shane took over. Rick shooting her has me thinking Rick is now more along with doing whatever it takes.

Either way, I don't think anyone 'froze' but after days of searching for a girl and then seeing her zombie lurch out of a barn after shooting a dozen zombies I'd probably pause for a second and think holyshizzle.

Edit- Ispelling mistakes.

 
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'gmbacm said:
Gotta say i didnt expect to see sophia in the barn. Seems obvious that hershel must have known it was her, but leaves the issue of why he didnt say something sooner if he wanted them to leave.
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Yeah she is still alive after 90 issues of the comic I think.As far as Rick's 'leadership' qualities go (as far as I can remember from comic);

They really haven't made it clear in the show but in the comics Rick is ONLY concerned w/Lori and Carl's safety (sometimes at the expense of EVERYONE else). He made a TON of bad decisions that led to a lot of deaths in the comic. Nothing good ever really happens for the survivors in the comic either. Seems like only recently has Rick figured out that by keeping the group alive, he improves he and Carl's chances. Shane still being alive changes a TON of stuff too.
I thought Shane was going to pound dale into the swamp in that scene. I guess Shane can take him out any time he wants.

 
'boubucarow said:
'Jayrok said:
'boubucarow said:
'Jayrok said:
I don't think Shane froze when the girl came out. I think it had more to do with the conversation Shane had with Rick's wife. He told her Rick wasn't equipped to live in this new world, much less lead the group. Rick shooting the girl not only proved to his own group (especially Shane) that he is, after all, ready to live and lead them in this new world, and that he is ready to move on. He got closure on the girl because he felt it was his fault she got lost in the first place. But he also showed Hershel that he is prepared to treat walkers the same way, regardless of personal ties or affiliation with his group. Hershel viewed them as sick family members/friends. Rick had to shoot the girl, because if Shane had done it, the question of Rick's leadership would have remained an issue. But I have no doubt that Shane or Daryl would have shot the girl before she had a chance to hurt anyone else. But Rick needed to do it.
Click to expand...
The person that Shane professes to be, the person that is needed to survive their environment, and the person that Rick is incapable of being would have shot zombie Sophie in a split second just like all the rest of them. There was no purpose in allowing her to "live" for even a second longer except that everyone hesitated to pull the trigger. And everyone additional second she was "alive" would increase the torture for the group. It wasn't until Shane and everyone else hesitated that Rick stepped up to do what needed to be done. If you are implying that Shane hesitated solely so Rick could affirm his leadership, I don't see that at all.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying that Shane turned to look at Rick as if to say "your call". But I believe it was written to allow Rick to step up and make the call. As far as Shane, I don't think he ducked away from shooting her. If he had shot her the second she came out, it wouldn't have made for a season ending scene. I guess I'm saying that I don't believe the writer's intent was to show that Shane was all talk and no action, but more that Rick was the only person in that group that had to shoot the girl.
Click to expand...
I agree that it was written to allow Rick to step up. But I also think that Shane building up to take over the leadership role during the entire episode was a set up for him to fail as that leader. The scene was as much about Shane as it was Rick.
Click to expand...
Good point. Shane went out of his way (or was written as such) to make it known how he felt about being in survivor mode. How he talked to the blonde during her weapons training is evidence of that. He was shouting at her to not hesitate, etc. I can see that as a build up over the episodes to show that he was a shoot now, ask questions later kind of guy. Then at the last scene, he saw the girl differently than a regular zombie. I can see that. I still don't think Shane turned into a coward, though. Or that he simply couldn't bring himself to pull the trigger. It was Rick's moment.
 
I don't think Shane or anyone else freezing in that moment made them a coward. I just think it pointed out that Shane isn't the leader he thinks he is. Then again, I'm not convinced Shane has any real intention to lead. I think he just wants to take certain things and be done with it.

 
Was Sophia the first person Shane knew before they became a walker? If so, that may have explained his hesitation at the barn.

'Charlie Frown said:
I thought Shane was going to pound dale into the swamp in that scene. I guess Shane can take him out any time he wants.
Click to expand...
The reprobate Shane is just waiting until he thinks he can get away with it. He's pond scum.
 
The spoiler tags regarding the comics probably aren't even neccessary at this point. In fact, it might provoke further discussion of the show in relation to the comics without them. :shrug:

Either way is fine though imo. I can see why people wouldn't want to know what happens in the comics regarding future happenings in the show, but that has pretty much proved pointless thus far.

 
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'boubucarow said:
'Jayrok said:
'boubucarow said:
'Jayrok said:
I don't think Shane froze when the girl came out. I think it had more to do with the conversation Shane had with Rick's wife. He told her Rick wasn't equipped to live in this new world, much less lead the group. Rick shooting the girl not only proved to his own group (especially Shane) that he is, after all, ready to live and lead them in this new world, and that he is ready to move on. He got closure on the girl because he felt it was his fault she got lost in the first place. But he also showed Hershel that he is prepared to treat walkers the same way, regardless of personal ties or affiliation with his group. Hershel viewed them as sick family members/friends. Rick had to shoot the girl, because if Shane had done it, the question of Rick's leadership would have remained an issue. But I have no doubt that Shane or Daryl would have shot the girl before she had a chance to hurt anyone else. But Rick needed to do it.
Click to expand...
The person that Shane professes to be, the person that is needed to survive their environment, and the person that Rick is incapable of being would have shot zombie Sophie in a split second just like all the rest of them. There was no purpose in allowing her to "live" for even a second longer except that everyone hesitated to pull the trigger. And everyone additional second she was "alive" would increase the torture for the group. It wasn't until Shane and everyone else hesitated that Rick stepped up to do what needed to be done. If you are implying that Shane hesitated solely so Rick could affirm his leadership, I don't see that at all.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying that Shane turned to look at Rick as if to say "your call". But I believe it was written to allow Rick to step up and make the call. As far as Shane, I don't think he ducked away from shooting her. If he had shot her the second she came out, it wouldn't have made for a season ending scene. I guess I'm saying that I don't believe the writer's intent was to show that Shane was all talk and no action, but more that Rick was the only person in that group that had to shoot the girl.
Click to expand...
I agree that it was written to allow Rick to step up. But I also think that Shane building up to take over the leadership role during the entire episode was a set up for him to fail as that leader. The scene was as much about Shane as it was Rick.
Click to expand...
This
 
'Copeman said:
The spoiler tags regarding the comics probably aren't even neccessary at this point. In fact, it might provoke further discussion of the show in relation to the comics without them. :shrug:Either way is fine though imo. I can see why people wouldn't want to know what happens in the comics regarding future happenings in the show, but that has pretty much proved pointless thus far.
Click to expand...
How do you figure? They've gone away from the comics in a LOT of ways, but if you didn't read them and had read some of the spoilers this season, much of the mystery of Herschel's farm would have been ruined.
And if they do anything with the prison/Governor/Michonne/etc. that would be ruined as well, talking about it.
 
'kentric said:
Best episode to date. Seems the show is getting better as it goes along. I fall in the "surprised about Sophie" crew. It will make a nice story line for the next episode. Did Hershel know she was in there. If so, I can see Shane being awefully pissed off that the old man knew it and still let the others go out searching for Sophie and risking their lives.I don't read too much in Shane not taking out Sophie. To me Sophie didn't look too bad. She was easily recogniseable and wasn't chewed up at all. It looks like they just took a step back seeing her and she sure as hell didn't appear to eager to get lunch. I mean, I've seen zombies with no legs move faster than her.
Click to expand...
Being that:a) Herschel didn't want them there in the first placeb) He would have loved for them to move on up the road, andc) He didn't want them to know that there were Walkers in the barn to begin with;I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that that theory is off the mark.
 
'roadkill1292 said:
Was Sophia the first person Shane knew before they became a walker? If so, that may have explained his hesitation at the barn.

'Charlie Frown said:
I thought Shane was going to pound dale into the swamp in that scene. I guess Shane can take him out any time he wants.
Click to expand...
The reprobate Shane is just waiting until he thinks he can get away with it. He's pond scum.
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There have two other in the group that have become infected. Amy who was Andra's sister that shane knew and then there was another guy in the group that was dropped off on the side of the road on the way to the CDC - I forget his name. Both of these people Shane knew, but I do not think they had the impact that seeing Sophia. Shane is a coward. He can shoot all of Hershel's friends and family and smile while doing it, but when facing with shooting one of their own he is taken a back. The key here is that Shane is such an emotionally bleak person that he could not feel empathy for how Hershel felt about those in the barn.
 
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'Sconch said:
'roadkill1292 said:
Was Sophia the first person Shane knew before they became a walker? If so, that may have explained his hesitation at the barn.

'Charlie Frown said:
I thought Shane was going to pound dale into the swamp in that scene. I guess Shane can take him out any time he wants.
Click to expand...
The reprobate Shane is just waiting until he thinks he can get away with it. He's pond scum.
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:lmao: Drop the remote and slowly walk away.
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THIS IS IMPORTANT, DAMMIT!!11!!
 
'ConnSKINS26 said:
'Copeman said:
The spoiler tags regarding the comics probably aren't even neccessary at this point. In fact, it might provoke further discussion of the show in relation to the comics without them. :shrug:

Either way is fine though imo. I can see why people wouldn't want to know what happens in the comics regarding future happenings in the show, but that has pretty much proved pointless thus far.
Click to expand...
How do you figure? They've gone away from the comics in a LOT of ways, but if you didn't read them and had read some of the spoilers this season, much of the mystery of Herschel's farm would have been ruined.
And if they do anything with the prison/Governor/Michonne/etc. that would be ruined as well, talking about it.
Click to expand...
Meh. Whatever. Wouldn't matter to me. Would provoke alot more discussion though. Just thought I'd bring it up since much between the two are different and there is no telling what will happen/change between the two.As you said in your spoiler..."IF they do".

 
'ConnSKINS26 said:
'Copeman said:
The spoiler tags regarding the comics probably aren't even neccessary at this point. In fact, it might provoke further discussion of the show in relation to the comics without them. :shrug:Either way is fine though imo. I can see why people wouldn't want to know what happens in the comics regarding future happenings in the show, but that has pretty much proved pointless thus far.
Click to expand...
How do you figure? They've gone away from the comics in a LOT of ways, but if you didn't read them and had read some of the spoilers this season, much of the mystery of Herschel's farm would have been ruined.
And if they do anything with the prison/Governor/Michonne/etc. that would be ruined as well, talking about it.
Click to expand...
Agree (although I didn't look at the spoiler tag).Move that into another thread if you don't want to spoiler tag everything. Lots of us watch the show without wanting to know what is upcoming per the comics.
 
In the Talking Dead they revealed that the final scene was shot two different ways. One as it was shown on TV and the other was shot as Sophia coming out looking like human Sophia. But only to those that knew her. In other words, they were trying to show the emotions of killing someone they knew and how it would emotionally effect them. Even as they showed it, they revealed that the bite on her neck was harder to see and the blood ran down her back to make her look as fresh as possible. Clearly the writers were trying to show how hard it was to kill one of their own. Even Shane paused. He probably would have still made the shot, but it still gave him pause.

A plot hole I found in this episode that bothered me and I haven't seen anyone here mention it is the returning horse. There are fences all over the farm. There is a gate at the entrance they keep closed. There is a swamp where things get stuck in the silt. How'd the horse get back? I doubt it jumped a fence. Was the gate left open? There has to be meaning for the horse returning or they wouldn't have mentioned it.

Excellent episode though. The writers have made some mistakes. But they've done a nice job of using one scene from one episode to play into another. I imagine the aftermath coming from the barn massacre will be epic. How can the two groups co-exist now? Clearly, shooting the farmers wife in the face isn't going to go over smoothly. The farmer is going to need some time to rationalize all that. The farmers daughter clearly is becoming ok with with happened but will still grieve.

And what was played out as minor differences in post zombie apocalypse are becoming major rifts within the group. Shane, Blondie are in the "do whatever it takes to survive" group. Daryl is in the middle. Rick and Dale are in the "still trying to hold on to humanity" group. The rift will only bring further death to the group should they stay together.

 
'SmoovySmoov said:
'kentric said:
Best episode to date. Seems the show is getting better as it goes along. I fall in the "surprised about Sophie" crew. It will make a nice story line for the next episode. Did Hershel know she was in there. If so, I can see Shane being awefully pissed off that the old man knew it and still let the others go out searching for Sophie and risking their lives.I don't read too much in Shane not taking out Sophie. To me Sophie didn't look too bad. She was easily recogniseable and wasn't chewed up at all. It looks like they just took a step back seeing her and she sure as hell didn't appear to eager to get lunch. I mean, I've seen zombies with no legs move faster than her.
Click to expand...
Being that:a) Herschel didn't want them there in the first placeb) He would have loved for them to move on up the road, andc) He didn't want them to know that there were Walkers in the barn to begin with;I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that that theory is off the mark.
Click to expand...
Are your points arguments that Hershel didn't know she was in the barn or are you arguing that the others (especially Shane) wouldn't be ticked off that he knew and didn't tell them?
 
'Froglova said:
Clearly the writers were trying to show how hard it was to kill one of their own. Even Shane paused. He probably would have still made the shot, but it still gave him pause.
Click to expand...
Just watched the scene again. He literally stepped back. In that moment, even Dark Shane felt loss. It was interesting watching everyone's reaction again. No one raised a gun toward Sophia. Shane looked like he had been hit in the gut. Darryl even dropped his gun and made no attempt to pick it back up as he was holding Carol back. The only one who (literally) stepped forward was Rick.
 
'Froglova said:
A plot hole I found in this episode that bothered me and I haven't seen anyone here mention it is the returning horse. There are fences all over the farm. There is a gate at the entrance they keep closed. There is a swamp where things get stuck in the silt. How'd the horse get back? I doubt it jumped a fence. Was the gate left open? There has to be meaning for the horse returning or they wouldn't have mentioned it.
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Not necessarily a plot hole, but something I found odd was that Sophie is five feet away from Rick when he blows her away and all Sophie does is kind of flop to the ground. That was one mean ### looking gun Rick was totting. If he shot her from that distance, not only would that 60 lb zombie get thrown five feet back, but there would be some major splatterage of zombie brains and skull. This is a zombie show after all. Blood and guts should be par for the course. :P
 
'Yo Mama said:
'ConnSKINS26 said:
'Copeman said:
The spoiler tags regarding the comics probably aren't even neccessary at this point. In fact, it might provoke further discussion of the show in relation to the comics without them. :shrug:Either way is fine though imo. I can see why people wouldn't want to know what happens in the comics regarding future happenings in the show, but that has pretty much proved pointless thus far.
Click to expand...
How do you figure? They've gone away from the comics in a LOT of ways, but if you didn't read them and had read some of the spoilers this season, much of the mystery of Herschel's farm would have been ruined.
And if they do anything with the prison/Governor/Michonne/etc. that would be ruined as well, talking about it.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Agree (although I didn't look at the spoiler tag).Move that into another thread if you don't want to spoiler tag everything. Lots of us watch the show without wanting to know what is upcoming per the comics. :goodposting:
 
I don't mind plot holes here and there, as long as it's not a MAJOR hole. Writers for any SciFi-ish show or movie must go into it knowing us nerds will pick it apart frame by frame. I bet they have a wall complete with post-its, pictures, thumbtacks and strings to try to avoid plot holes. Probably better than anything the FBI has.

And they still miss some things. But as long as they don't tread into Lost territory, I'm ok with it.

 
'kentric said:
'SmoovySmoov said:
'kentric said:
Best episode to date. Seems the show is getting better as it goes along. I fall in the "surprised about Sophie" crew. It will make a nice story line for the next episode. Did Hershel know she was in there. If so, I can see Shane being awefully pissed off that the old man knew it and still let the others go out searching for Sophie and risking their lives.I don't read too much in Shane not taking out Sophie. To me Sophie didn't look too bad. She was easily recogniseable and wasn't chewed up at all. It looks like they just took a step back seeing her and she sure as hell didn't appear to eager to get lunch. I mean, I've seen zombies with no legs move faster than her.
Click to expand...
Being that:a) Herschel didn't want them there in the first placeb) He would have loved for them to move on up the road, andc) He didn't want them to know that there were Walkers in the barn to begin with;I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that that theory is off the mark.
Click to expand...
Are your points arguments that Hershel didn't know she was in the barn or are you arguing that the others (especially Shane) wouldn't be ticked off that he knew and didn't tell them?
Click to expand...
I'm arguing that there is no way Herschel would have let them keep looking for her if he knew she was in the barn. He doesn't want them there (which they are going to be for as long as they are looking for her) and he doesn't want them to find the barn. IF he knew, he would have had to try to get her out of there, and have the group find her. I'm just saying he wouldn't have left her in there, knowing that they would stay until she was found.
 
Why couldn't the horse had jumped the wall to get back in? We have no idea how high the walls are, and we also know that zombies aren't very good at climbing. And they wouldn't climb a wall if they had no reason to.

 
'Copeman said:
Why couldn't the horse had jumped the wall to get back in? We have no idea how high the walls are, and we also know that zombies aren't very good at climbing. And they wouldn't climb a wall if they had no reason to.
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Horses don't just go jumping fences. It had to have found another way in. And it was important enough to make it part of the plot. With Herschel talking about it finding it's way back to the stall. It's not really a hole, but it leaves open something not yet seen.
 
'SmoovySmoov said:
'kentric said:
'SmoovySmoov said:
'kentric said:
Best episode to date. Seems the show is getting better as it goes along. I fall in the "surprised about Sophie" crew. It will make a nice story line for the next episode. Did Hershel know she was in there. If so, I can see Shane being awefully pissed off that the old man knew it and still let the others go out searching for Sophie and risking their lives.I don't read too much in Shane not taking out Sophie. To me Sophie didn't look too bad. She was easily recogniseable and wasn't chewed up at all. It looks like they just took a step back seeing her and she sure as hell didn't appear to eager to get lunch. I mean, I've seen zombies with no legs move faster than her.
Click to expand...
Being that:a) Herschel didn't want them there in the first placeb) He would have loved for them to move on up the road, andc) He didn't want them to know that there were Walkers in the barn to begin with;I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that that theory is off the mark.
Click to expand...
Are your points arguments that Hershel didn't know she was in the barn or are you arguing that the others (especially Shane) wouldn't be ticked off that he knew and didn't tell them?
Click to expand...
I'm arguing that there is no way Herschel would have let them keep looking for her if he knew she was in the barn. He doesn't want them there (which they are going to be for as long as they are looking for her) and he doesn't want them to find the barn. IF he knew, he would have had to try to get her out of there, and have the group find her. I'm just saying he wouldn't have left her in there, knowing that they would stay until she was found.
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They talked about this in the talking dead. They said it was clearly laid out that Otis did the catching and Sophia wasn't talked about while Otis was around because they were dealing with Carl being shot. Had Otis not been Otis'd by Shane, he would have mentioned Sophia being in the barn earlier. And Herschel probably didn't know about Sophia.
 
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'packersfan said:
'Froglova said:
Clearly the writers were trying to show how hard it was to kill one of their own. Even Shane paused. He probably would have still made the shot, but it still gave him pause.
Click to expand...
Just watched the scene again. He literally stepped back. In that moment, even Dark Darth Shane felt loss. It was interesting watching everyone's reaction again. No one raised a gun toward Sophia. Shane looked like he had been hit in the gut. Darryl even dropped his gun and made no attempt to pick it back up as he was holding Carol back. The only one who (literally) stepped forward was Rick.
Click to expand...
Fixed.
 
'SmoovySmoov said:
'kentric said:
'SmoovySmoov said:
'kentric said:
Best episode to date. Seems the show is getting better as it goes along. I fall in the "surprised about Sophie" crew. It will make a nice story line for the next episode. Did Hershel know she was in there. If so, I can see Shane being awefully pissed off that the old man knew it and still let the others go out searching for Sophie and risking their lives.I don't read too much in Shane not taking out Sophie. To me Sophie didn't look too bad. She was easily recogniseable and wasn't chewed up at all. It looks like they just took a step back seeing her and she sure as hell didn't appear to eager to get lunch. I mean, I've seen zombies with no legs move faster than her.
Click to expand...
Being that:a) Herschel didn't want them there in the first placeb) He would have loved for them to move on up the road, andc) He didn't want them to know that there were Walkers in the barn to begin with;I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that that theory is off the mark.
Click to expand...
Are your points arguments that Hershel didn't know she was in the barn or are you arguing that the others (especially Shane) wouldn't be ticked off that he knew and didn't tell them?
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I'm arguing that there is no way Herschel would have let them keep looking for her if he knew she was in the barn. He doesn't want them there (which they are going to be for as long as they are looking for her) and he doesn't want them to find the barn. IF he knew, he would have had to try to get her out of there, and have the group find her. I'm just saying he wouldn't have left her in there, knowing that they would stay until she was found.
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Its difficult to imagine Hershel getting her out of the barn. I agree he didn't want them there to begin with, but they ddidn't appear to be intent on leaving while still looking for the girl. You could also make the argument that he knew she was there but didn't want them to find out about the other Walkers so kept quiet about it so they wouldn't kill his zombie friend and family plan. There are alot of different viewpoints on this, but at the end of the day, there will still be people who will believe he knew about Sophie.
 
'Froglova said:
'Copeman said:
Why couldn't the horse had jumped the wall to get back in? We have no idea how high the walls are, and we also know that zombies aren't very good at climbing. And they wouldn't climb a wall if they had no reason to.
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Horses don't just go jumping fences. It had to have found another way in. And it was important enough to make it part of the plot. With Herschel talking about it finding it's way back to the stall. It's not really a hole, but it leaves open something not yet seen.
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If they have a zombie on their ### they might.
 
'kentric said:
'Froglova said:
A plot hole I found in this episode that bothered me and I haven't seen anyone here mention it is the returning horse. There are fences all over the farm. There is a gate at the entrance they keep closed. There is a swamp where things get stuck in the silt. How'd the horse get back? I doubt it jumped a fence. Was the gate left open? There has to be meaning for the horse returning or they wouldn't have mentioned it.
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Not necessarily a plot hole, but something I found odd was that Sophie is five feet away from Rick when he blows her away and all Sophie does is kind of flop to the ground. That was one mean ### looking gun Rick was totting. If he shot her from that distance, not only would that 60 lb zombie get thrown five feet back, but there would be some major splatterage of zombie brains and skull. This is a zombie show after all. Blood and guts should be par for the course. :P
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agreed. as mentioned in The Talking Dead, censors will not allow a child (even a child zombie) to be shot with a gun on camera. i think that's the reason for the lack of gore in Sophia's death.

 
'Copeman said:
'Froglova said:
'Copeman said:
Why couldn't the horse had jumped the wall to get back in? We have no idea how high the walls are, and we also know that zombies aren't very good at climbing. And they wouldn't climb a wall if they had no reason to.
Click to expand...
Horses don't just go jumping fences. It had to have found another way in. And it was important enough to make it part of the plot. With Herschel talking about it finding it's way back to the stall. It's not really a hole, but it leaves open something not yet seen.
Click to expand...
If they have a zombie on their ### they might.
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Still not in the nature of a horse. Horse will run from something they suspect as a danger. But they don't just jump things even when scared. That's why low fences work well for horses.
 
'SmoovySmoov said:
'kentric said:
'SmoovySmoov said:
'kentric said:
Best episode to date. Seems the show is getting better as it goes along. I fall in the "surprised about Sophie" crew. It will make a nice story line for the next episode. Did Hershel know she was in there. If so, I can see Shane being awefully pissed off that the old man knew it and still let the others go out searching for Sophie and risking their lives.

I don't read too much in Shane not taking out Sophie. To me Sophie didn't look too bad. She was easily recogniseable and wasn't chewed up at all. It looks like they just took a step back seeing her and she sure as hell didn't appear to eager to get lunch. I mean, I've seen zombies with no legs move faster than her.
Click to expand...
Being that:a) Herschel didn't want them there in the first place

b) He would have loved for them to move on up the road, and

c) He didn't want them to know that there were Walkers in the barn to begin with;

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that that theory is off the mark.
Click to expand...
Are your points arguments that Hershel didn't know she was in the barn or are you arguing that the others (especially Shane) wouldn't be ticked off that he knew and didn't tell them?
Click to expand...
I'm arguing that there is no way Herschel would have let them keep looking for her if he knew she was in the barn. He doesn't want them there (which they are going to be for as long as they are looking for her) and he doesn't want them to find the barn. IF he knew, he would have had to try to get her out of there, and have the group find her. I'm just saying he wouldn't have left her in there, knowing that they would stay until she was found.
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I'm not sure I believe that. How could he keep them from looking for her without compromising the secret of what's in the barn? Them being distracted with looking for her (which they really didn't seem to do very much) would be the best way to keep them from discovering what's in there. Of course, so would having them camp somewhere else on a huge farm farther away from the barn, and not wheelbarrowing sacks of crippled chickens in broad daylight. I don't see how, once he operated on Carl, he could've kicked them out before Carl was well enough to travel and all this seemed to happen on the first day or two that Carl was out of bed and he'd already given them the ultimatum that they had to leave, which covers them not staying until she was found. Of course, Carl goes from bed ridden to target practice in a day just like T-Bone's miraculous recovery from a near septic infection.As far as the point above about not reading too much into Shane not taking out Sophia, that's couldn't be more wrong. It was the entire point of the episode and half-season: who is the leader of their group and by proxy, if Shane will continue to be in it.

 
'Froglova said:
'SmoovySmoov said:
'kentric said:
'SmoovySmoov said:
'kentric said:
Best episode to date. Seems the show is getting better as it goes along. I fall in the "surprised about Sophie" crew. It will make a nice story line for the next episode. Did Hershel know she was in there. If so, I can see Shane being awefully pissed off that the old man knew it and still let the others go out searching for Sophie and risking their lives.

I don't read too much in Shane not taking out Sophie. To me Sophie didn't look too bad. She was easily recogniseable and wasn't chewed up at all. It looks like they just took a step back seeing her and she sure as hell didn't appear to eager to get lunch. I mean, I've seen zombies with no legs move faster than her.
Click to expand...
Being that:a) Herschel didn't want them there in the first place

b) He would have loved for them to move on up the road, and

c) He didn't want them to know that there were Walkers in the barn to begin with;

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that that theory is off the mark.
Click to expand...
Are your points arguments that Hershel didn't know she was in the barn or are you arguing that the others (especially Shane) wouldn't be ticked off that he knew and didn't tell them?
Click to expand...
I'm arguing that there is no way Herschel would have let them keep looking for her if he knew she was in the barn. He doesn't want them there (which they are going to be for as long as they are looking for her) and he doesn't want them to find the barn. IF he knew, he would have had to try to get her out of there, and have the group find her. I'm just saying he wouldn't have left her in there, knowing that they would stay until she was found.
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They talked about this in the talking dead. They said it was clearly laid out that Otis did the catching and Sophia wasn't talked about while Otis was around because they were dealing with Carl being shot. Had Otis not been Otis'd by Shane, he would have mentioned Sophia being in the barn earlier. And Herschel probably didn't know about Sophia.
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:lmao:
 
'Froglova said:
'Copeman said:
'Froglova said:
'Copeman said:
Why couldn't the horse had jumped the wall to get back in? We have no idea how high the walls are, and we also know that zombies aren't very good at climbing. And they wouldn't climb a wall if they had no reason to.
Click to expand...
Horses don't just go jumping fences. It had to have found another way in. And it was important enough to make it part of the plot. With Herschel talking about it finding it's way back to the stall. It's not really a hole, but it leaves open something not yet seen.
Click to expand...
If they have a zombie on their ### they might.
Click to expand...
Still not in the nature of a horse. Horse will run from something they suspect as a danger. But they don't just jump things even when scared. That's why low fences work well for horses.
Click to expand...
Maybe the friggin horse punched in his PIN at the gate and walked right in then.
 
'Copeman said:
'Froglova said:
'Copeman said:
'Froglova said:
'Copeman said:
Why couldn't the horse had jumped the wall to get back in? We have no idea how high the walls are, and we also know that zombies aren't very good at climbing. And they wouldn't climb a wall if they had no reason to.
Click to expand...
Horses don't just go jumping fences. It had to have found another way in. And it was important enough to make it part of the plot. With Herschel talking about it finding it's way back to the stall. It's not really a hole, but it leaves open something not yet seen.
Click to expand...
If they have a zombie on their ### they might.
Click to expand...
Still not in the nature of a horse. Horse will run from something they suspect as a danger. But they don't just jump things even when scared. That's why low fences work well for horses.
Click to expand...
Maybe the friggin horse punched in his PIN at the gate and walked right in then.
Click to expand...
:lmao: The code is 1...2...3...4...5...6...7
 
'Jayrok said:
'boubucarow said:
'Jayrok said:
'boubucarow said:
'Jayrok said:
I don't think Shane froze when the girl came out. I think it had more to do with the conversation Shane had with Rick's wife. He told her Rick wasn't equipped to live in this new world, much less lead the group. Rick shooting the girl not only proved to his own group (especially Shane) that he is, after all, ready to live and lead them in this new world, and that he is ready to move on. He got closure on the girl because he felt it was his fault she got lost in the first place. But he also showed Hershel that he is prepared to treat walkers the same way, regardless of personal ties or affiliation with his group. Hershel viewed them as sick family members/friends. Rick had to shoot the girl, because if Shane had done it, the question of Rick's leadership would have remained an issue. But I have no doubt that Shane or Daryl would have shot the girl before she had a chance to hurt anyone else. But Rick needed to do it.
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The person that Shane professes to be, the person that is needed to survive their environment, and the person that Rick is incapable of being would have shot zombie Sophie in a split second just like all the rest of them. There was no purpose in allowing her to "live" for even a second longer except that everyone hesitated to pull the trigger. And everyone additional second she was "alive" would increase the torture for the group. It wasn't until Shane and everyone else hesitated that Rick stepped up to do what needed to be done. If you are implying that Shane hesitated solely so Rick could affirm his leadership, I don't see that at all.
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I'm not saying that Shane turned to look at Rick as if to say "your call". But I believe it was written to allow Rick to step up and make the call. As far as Shane, I don't think he ducked away from shooting her. If he had shot her the second she came out, it wouldn't have made for a season ending scene. I guess I'm saying that I don't believe the writer's intent was to show that Shane was all talk and no action, but more that Rick was the only person in that group that had to shoot the girl.
Click to expand...
I agree that it was written to allow Rick to step up. But I also think that Shane building up to take over the leadership role during the entire episode was a set up for him to fail as that leader. The scene was as much about Shane as it was Rick.
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Good point. Shane went out of his way (or was written as such) to make it known how he felt about being in survivor mode. How he talked to the blonde during her weapons training is evidence of that. He was shouting at her to not hesitate, etc. I can see that as a build up over the episodes to show that he was a shoot now, ask questions later kind of guy. Then at the last scene, he saw the girl differently than a regular zombie. I can see that. I still don't think Shane turned into a coward, though. Or that he simply couldn't bring himself to pull the trigger. It was Rick's moment.
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Rick had some experience popping little girls. The very first scene of this series Rick shoots a little girl in the head when he's searching for gas. The who;e group froze for a hile when Sophia emerged making that transition in thought from alive to walker would take a moment and especially offing her with her mother screaming and looking on.Great moment in a show I look forward to watching each week.
 
'Froglova said:
'Copeman said:
'Froglova said:
'Copeman said:
Why couldn't the horse had jumped the wall to get back in? We have no idea how high the walls are, and we also know that zombies aren't very good at climbing. And they wouldn't climb a wall if they had no reason to.
Click to expand...
Horses don't just go jumping fences. It had to have found another way in. And it was important enough to make it part of the plot. With Herschel talking about it finding it's way back to the stall. It's not really a hole, but it leaves open something not yet seen.
Click to expand...
If they have a zombie on their ### they might.
Click to expand...
Still not in the nature of a horse. Horse will run from something they suspect as a danger. But they don't just jump things even when scared. That's why low fences work well for horses.
Click to expand...
Growing up we had horses. Sometimes the horses would get out and run around. a few times the horse would remain near the field and we would attempt to corral it, and it would jump the fence. We also had one run through an american wire fence. She ripped three posts out of the ground doing that. Horses by nature are stupid and flighty. Stupid and flighty rarely lead to "natural" decisions.
 
'AhrnCityPahnder said:
'The Doctor said:
'AhrnCityPahnder said:
Great episode. Can't wait until Feb.

Also, haven't read this whole thread, but I'm calling dibs on Maggie. :wub: Glenn can EAD.

Lauren Cohan
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is she the one with the country accent they meet at that farmhouse?
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The one that's been a recurring character in all 6 episodes of season 2 of The Walking Dead, the Drama on AMC?

Yeah, her.
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nope didnt see her in the first two episodes. epic fail scrooge
 
'Tecumseh said:
'Yo Mama said:
'ConnSKINS26 said:
'Copeman said:
The spoiler tags regarding the comics probably aren't even neccessary at this point. In fact, it might provoke further discussion of the show in relation to the comics without them. :shrug:Either way is fine though imo. I can see why people wouldn't want to know what happens in the comics regarding future happenings in the show, but that has pretty much proved pointless thus far.
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How do you figure? They've gone away from the comics in a LOT of ways, but if you didn't read them and had read some of the spoilers this season, much of the mystery of Herschel's farm would have been ruined.
And if they do anything with the prison/Governor/Michonne/etc. that would be ruined as well, talking about it.
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Agree (although I didn't look at the spoiler tag).Move that into another thread if you don't want to spoiler tag everything. Lots of us watch the show without wanting to know what is upcoming per the comics.
:goodposting: :goodposting: Seeing as Kirkman (the comic creator) is also an executive producer/writer on the show, it is fair to say that many themes/stories in the comics will happen in the TV show. I didn't read the comics, so I don't want to see information about what could happen in the future. It reminds me of Lost where the show folks said that they had everything mapped out, but that they filled in all the details in the episodes. So, people like Sophie and Shane could have different arcs in the TV show than the comic, but I would bet the overall story lines, like Herchel's farm and Atlanta are going to be present. So any big story lines in the future will most likely be in the TV show.
 
'Cold Dead Hands said:
'Froglova said:
'Copeman said:
'Froglova said:
'Copeman said:
Why couldn't the horse had jumped the wall to get back in? We have no idea how high the walls are, and we also know that zombies aren't very good at climbing. And they wouldn't climb a wall if they had no reason to.
Click to expand...
Horses don't just go jumping fences. It had to have found another way in. And it was important enough to make it part of the plot. With Herschel talking about it finding it's way back to the stall. It's not really a hole, but it leaves open something not yet seen.
Click to expand...
If they have a zombie on their ### they might.
Click to expand...
Still not in the nature of a horse. Horse will run from something they suspect as a danger. But they don't just jump things even when scared. That's why low fences work well for horses.
Click to expand...
Growing up we had horses. Sometimes the horses would get out and run around. a few times the horse would remain near the field and we would attempt to corral it, and it would jump the fence. We also had one run through an american wire fence. She ripped three posts out of the ground doing that. Horses by nature are stupid and flighty. Stupid and flighty rarely lead to "natural" decisions.
Click to expand...
Never had one jump a fence. Go through one sure. But never over one. Point being that if one went through the fence, they now have a hole in the fence a walker might step on through.
 
'stbugs said:
I would bet the overall story lines, like Herchel's farm and Atlanta are going to be present. So any big story lines in the future will most likely be in the TV show.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure we can count on that. I believe Shane died early in the comics and isn't Sophia still alive but Carol is dead? Seems like they're picking and choosing which elements of the comics they are using and even if they use something similar they often give it a twist. Because of that, I'm not bothered by comic spoilers. It can give us a possible idea of what might happen but I wouldn't necessarily view it as an actual precursor of what's going to come.
 
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