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***OFFICIAL 'The Walking Dead' TV Series Thread***

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So, are the wimmens that captured Maggie and Carol a different group that was coming to attack?  So that now there may be a joining of forces to go against Neagan and all the tension between who is in charge of the shooting match?  Agree this was just one of many outposts - but there was mention of other groups of survivors that need to get by on trade and their world is about to get much bigger. 

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I think they are a part of the lizzies.

Edited by James Bond
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21 minutes ago, (HULK) said:

Honestly, the WHY of Rick's group is interacting with Neegan's group has changed from the comics to the show, and I personally think it ruins the show a bit.  By attacking a group that really hadn't done much to them personally... and not just attacking them, murdering them in their sleep... it has totally altered the moral compass of the Alexandrians.  I can't say I approve.  I really don't feel like you can root for Rick and Co if this is how they are going about things.

 

ETA: So picture/trophies by a guy's bed doesn't gloss over murdering people while they sleep imo

This show has always posed the question of what morality is in this new world and what must you do to survive? As I posted earlier I love how the group has evolved and reached a point where you can legitimately question whether their actions are morally just. It says a lot about the world order that Morgan's view is considered weak and passive when it's one Season 1 & 2 Rick almost certainly would've embraced. Now he not only would understand why Shane sacrificed Otis he would probably ask him why it took Shane so long to come up with the idea. 

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Dale would have fervently been against this raid along with Morgan.  I strenuously object!  

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the point being guys like dale don't live long enough to instill this law and order upon the new society.

 

dale-  dead

hershel- dead

neidermeyer- dead

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1 minute ago, tommyboy said:

the point being guys like dale don't live long enough to instill this law and order upon the new society.

 

dale-  dead

hershel- dead

neidermeyer- dead

morgan - welding a cage to lock himself in for the duration of the apocalypse 

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3 hours ago, tommyboy said:

the prison knifing scene on breaking bad,  might be the most graphically violent thing i've ever seen on tv.   Or the entire series of "the Shield"   check those out

For one scene, the one that still is at the top of my list is the curb scene in American History X.

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24 minutes ago, Jayrok said:

Dale would have fervently been against this raid along with Morgan.  I strenuously object!  

 

Yeah I still don't get why they insist on having characters that are still trying to apply "pre-outbreak" morals in this universe.    Maybe in the first couple of seasons but by now it's just silly.  

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5 minutes ago, McJose said:

 

Yeah I still don't get why they insist on having characters that are still trying to apply "pre-outbreak" morals in this universe.    Maybe in the first couple of seasons but by now it's just silly.  

Your face is silly. 

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10 minutes ago, McJose said:

 

Yeah I still don't get why they insist on having characters that are still trying to apply "pre-outbreak" morals in this universe.    Maybe in the first couple of seasons but by now it's just silly.  

I think it'd be boring if there wasn't some kind of internal moral debate about how to best live in this world. 

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1 hour ago, (HULK) said:

Honestly, the WHY of Rick's group is interacting with Neegan's group has changed from the comics to the show, and I personally think it ruins the show a bit.  By attacking a group that really hadn't done much to them personally... and not just attacking them, murdering them in their sleep... it has totally altered the moral compass of the Alexandrians.  I can't say I approve.  I really don't feel like you can root for Rick and Co if this is how they are going about things.

 

ETA: So picture/trophies by a guy's bed doesn't gloss over murdering people while they sleep imo

Oh please, you'd bus your own mother if it meant a BG team win.

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15 minutes ago, packersfan said:

I think it'd be boring if there wasn't some kind of internal moral debate about how to best live in this world. 

 

Because just surviving day-to-day isn't dramatic enough? 

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2 hours ago, snogger said:

As far as anyone knows it's all dudes.. The only people Hilltop has seen is guys coming up to the Hilltop, as well as Guys at the Outposts.. Of course your mind says.. where there are dudes there are dudettes.. but then again.. Maybe they don't swing that way .. NTTIAWWT

And for the Bold part.. that will be the kicker in the next week or two.. That this wasn't the "Negan Hideout" just one of his outposts.. But again, Hilltop has only been to this one Outpost so from their view point this was it..

My overall guess.. They will spend the next one or two episodes getting to know this group that kidnapped Carol and Maggie.

They will be under the impression they've taken care of Negan's crew.. until he shows up at their doorstop.. :oldunsure:

season finale?

 

1 hour ago, snogger said:

The difference is small but there, at least in their minds..

They sat back and waited to be attacked by the Gov, the wolves and getting suckered into Terminus.. So, knowing the history of Negan, they've decided to take the fight to them instead of waiting for the fight to come to them.

At least that is their justification :shrug:

this never happens in the real world.

 

56 minutes ago, (HULK) said:

Honestly, the WHY of Rick's group is interacting with Neegan's group has changed from the comics to the show, and I personally think it ruins the show a bit.  By attacking a group that really hadn't done much to them personally... and not just attacking them, murdering them in their sleep... it has totally altered the moral compass of the Alexandrians.  I can't say I approve.  I really don't feel like you can root for Rick and Co if this is how they are going about things.

 

ETA: So picture/trophies by a guy's bed doesn't gloss over murdering people while they sleep imo

again, this stuff is too realistic.

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1 minute ago, McJose said:

 

Because just surviving day-to-day isn't dramatic enough? 

Sure it is but the morality in this new world has been one of the show's foundation points since Day 1. I enjoy that aspect quite a bit. It's why Glenn killing a person for the first time in this episode meant something and why the scene had more dramatic strength. And it's why Gabriel's scene worked so well from the opposite end. Here's a guy who not long ago was a complete coward and now he's buying in totally to Rick's point of view. But should he be doing that and what will the consequences of it be? That's the kind of stuff I really enjoy with this show and one of its strengths.  

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2 minutes ago, packersfan said:

Sure it is but the morality in this new world has been one of the show's foundation points since Day 1. I enjoy that aspect quite a bit. It's why Glenn killing a person for the first time in this episode meant something and why the scene had more dramatic strength. And it's why Gabriel's scene worked so well from the opposite end. Here's a guy who not long ago was a complete coward and now he's buying in totally to Rick's point of view. But should he be doing that and what will the consequences of it be? That's the kind of stuff I really enjoy with this show and one of its strengths.  

 

OK, let's agree to agree that you're wrong.

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36 minutes ago, McJose said:

 

Yeah I still don't get why they insist on having characters that are still trying to apply "pre-outbreak" morals in this universe.    Maybe in the first couple of seasons but by now it's just silly.  

That's just the Whisperer in you talking.

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4 hours ago, cstu said:

Negan's men were going to kill Daryl, Abe, and Sasha and then they found out about Negan killing innocent people from Hilltop. More than enough for casus belli.

Yet....

2 hours ago, dhockster said:

I like how Rick's group has evolved: Initially "We don't kill the living". Then, we just kill to defend ourselves. Now, we will kill those who would have come after us. .

 

2 hours ago, shadyridr said:

Ricks team is killing for food. Pretty much same as the saviors. I don't see much of a difference.

 

2 hours ago, Bossman said:

Seems that Ricks group has become the Wolves. "We need to eat and we're willing to kill for it".

 

1 hour ago, (HULK) said:

 By attacking a group that really hadn't done much to them personally... and not just attacking them, murdering them in their sleep... it has totally altered the moral compass of the Alexandrians. 

 

1 hour ago, packersfan said:

This show has always posed the question of what morality is in this new world and what must you do to survive?

 

22 minutes ago, packersfan said:

I think it'd be boring if there wasn't some kind of internal moral debate about how to best live in this world. 

......here we are.  The morality questions are the best thing this show has going for it.  And this episode was pretty good, right up to Glenn popping his murder cherry.

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28 minutes ago, tonydead said:

 

 The morality questions are the best thing this show has going for it.

Maybe if they didn't handle them so hamfisted.    Not sure if it the writing, directing, or acting (or a perfect storm) but this show can't do "drama".   Whenever they have 2 or more characters talk to each other for more than 1 minute I want to fast-forward.  

And as I mentioned before they are too far along in this "post-apocalypse" to have this many moral wussies.

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4 hours ago, tonydead said:

What about them talking to the guy on the motorcycle with a walkie talkie?

And added to that the injured guy saying something to the effect that he needs the guy on the motorcycle to heal him after what Carol did to him, so he knows the motorcycle escaping guy is their medic.

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3 hours ago, tommyboy said:

the point being guys like dale don't live long enough to instill this law and order upon the new society.

 

dale-  dead

hershel- dead

neidermeyer- dead

Marmalard?

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1 hour ago, McJose said:

Maybe if they didn't handle them so hamfisted.    Not sure if it the writing, directing, or acting (or a perfect storm) but this show can't do "drama".   Whenever they have 2 or more characters talk to each other for more than 1 minute I want to fast-forward.  

And as I mentioned before they are too far along in this "post-apocalypse" to have this many moral wussies.

I agree with ham-fisted writing, but, will also point out that they aren't quite 2 years their time past the outbreak.  And the Alexandrian wussies don't have the luxury of all the experiences that Rick's core group does.  Nor Morgan and Abe's group didn't meet up with them until after the prison.  Rick started killing people in season 2, but, Glenn hasn't killed anyone alive until this episode and he even talked Rick into sparing the residents of Terminus.  Then he was unable to Kill Nicholas after Noah's death. 

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I think it's poorly presented,* but the moral dilemma of if/when killing humans is justified should very much be a part of this sort of show. 

 

 

*Same with McJose's face. 

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4 hours ago, (HULK) said:

Honestly, the WHY of Rick's group is interacting with Neegan's group has changed from the comics to the show, and I personally think it ruins the show a bit.  By attacking a group that really hadn't done much to them personally... and not just attacking them, murdering them in their sleep... it has totally altered the moral compass of the Alexandrians.  I can't say I approve.  I really don't feel like you can root for Rick and Co if this is how they are going about things.

 

ETA: So picture/trophies by a guy's bed doesn't gloss over murdering people while they sleep imo

Hmm, I can't speak to the comic book handling, but from a purely TV show angle I'm not clear why you would say they hadn't done much to them personally. The biker gang was without question going to shoot Sasha/Abraham in cold blood if not for a hail mary. They were told that everything they owned, up to an including any stash of napkins in the console was Neegan's property. They saw the gang was heavily armed, and were told the gang typically kills one person when introducing itself. Then they heard how Neegan's group introduced itself to Hilltop, killing some kid as a statement, then forcing the beheading of its leader. Rick may be foolhardy for picking this fight, but I'm not sure what sort of additional provocation you would expect in this world before deeming this group an immediate threat to Alexandria. How would you approach this impending threat if you were Rick?

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4 hours ago, (HULK) said:

Honestly, the WHY of Rick's group is interacting with Neegan's group has changed from the comics to the show, and I personally think it ruins the show a bit.  By attacking a group that really hadn't done much to them personally... and not just attacking them, murdering them in their sleep... it has totally altered the moral compass of the Alexandrians.  I can't say I approve.  I really don't feel like you can root for Rick and Co if this is how they are going about things.

 

ETA: So picture/trophies by a guy's bed doesn't gloss over murdering people while they sleep imo

I agree with you that this was kind of a gut-wrenching moral turn, with the Alexandrians becoming kind of evil.  Personally, though, I liked that change.  As others have noted, the group has gotten less and less civilized throughout the franchise, and this struck me as being a logical (but big) step.

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I don't see the Alexandrians becoming evil at all.  They can't go to court and get a restraining order against Negan.

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2 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

So what is Morgan making? 

I have to say I really hate his character.

Answered above.. semed to be a cell similar to the one he was held in.. :shrug:

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1 hour ago, Courtjester said:

So what is Morgan making? 

I have to say I really hate his character.

 

Hopefully a guillotine that he's going to test on himself.

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5 hours ago, packersfan said:

I think it'd be boring if there wasn't some kind of internal moral debate about how to best live in this world. 

You can have a moral debate without being stupid - and Morgan's plan was stupid.

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Quote

As far as anyone knows it's all dudes.. The only people Hilltop has seen is guys coming up to the Hilltop, as well as Guys at the Outposts.. Of course your mind says.. where there are dudes there are dudettes..

Hilltop had women so it stands to reason that Negan had women - otherwise he would have taken the ones he wanted.

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1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I agree with you that this was kind of a gut-wrenching moral turn, with the Alexandrians becoming kind of evil.  Personally, though, I liked that change.  As others have noted, the group has gotten less and less civilized throughout the franchise, and this struck me as being a logical (but big) step.

Nothing evil or immoral in the slightest about what they did. It's like whining about ISIS members being killed.

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On 3/7/2016 at 9:14 PM, SacramentoBob said:

Typical Walking Dead writer's meeting.


Hey I know, let's introduce another badass black guy who turns out to be a giant #####.

Was this about Heath (the guy with Glenn)?  I didn't get the impression that he was being a #####, but was just feeling the life-changing moment. It seemed to me like he was going to go through with it just as Glenn had, but Glenn saved him from having to. I think Glenn just felt since he was already going to suffer the consequences later, he might as well save Heath from that and be the one to kill both. 

Basically, the scene just said much more about Glenn than about Heath. 

And Heath didn't seem to have a problem firing away at people who were actually attacking him, so he's not exactly another Morgan. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, tonydead said:

Yet....

......here we are.  The morality questions are the best thing this show has going for it.  And this episode was pretty good, right up to Glenn popping his murder cherry.

Everyone here is mistaken that they are killing for food. They are helping to kill a group of murderers they needed to kill anyway (how long until Alexandria is exposed to Negan by someone at Hilltop?). Yes, they negotiated food out of it but it was a necessity even if Hilltop refused to give them food and they would not have killed people at Hilltop to get it.

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2 minutes ago, cstu said:

 

 

Nothing evil or immoral in the slightest about what they did. It's like whining about ISIS members being killed.

hmm, that is a tough analogy to make. Rick's group were the first to draw blood by killing that group from Negan, and now have killed an entire outpost (or whatever that was) with not even attempting any diplomacy yet. Count me in for Team Negan. Anything he does at this point seems justified for the provocation from Rick's group. Killing a bunch of dudes when they sleep :no:

 

 

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2 hours ago, BigJim® said:

Hmm, I can't speak to the comic book handling, but from a purely TV show angle I'm not clear why you would say they hadn't done much to them personally. The biker gang was without question going to shoot Sasha/Abraham in cold blood if not for a hail mary. They were told that everything they owned, up to an including any stash of napkins in the console was Neegan's property. They saw the gang was heavily armed, and were told the gang typically kills one person when introducing itself. Then they heard how Neegan's group introduced itself to Hilltop, killing some kid as a statement, then forcing the beheading of its leader. Rick may be foolhardy for picking this fight, but I'm not sure what sort of additional provocation you would expect in this world before deeming this group an immediate threat to Alexandria.

How would you approach this impending threat if you were Rick?

Probably send misunderstood Negan a letter and ask his friends over for dinner.

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40 minutes ago, McJose said:

 

Hopefully a guillotine that he's going to test on himself.

its got to be a cell

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23 minutes ago, cstu said:

Probably send misunderstood Negan a letter and ask his friends over for dinner.

then poison them! good plan.

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33 minutes ago, jhib said:

Was this about Heath (the guy with Glenn)?  I didn't get the impression that he was being a #####, but was just feeling the life-changing moment. It seemed to me like he was going to go through with it just as Glenn had, but Glenn saved him from having to. I think Glenn just felt since he was already going to suffer the consequences later, he might as well save Heath from that and be the one to kill both. 

Basically, the scene just said much more about Glenn than about Heath. 

And Heath didn't seem to have a problem firing away at people who were actually attacking him, so he's not exactly another Morgan. 

 

 

That comment was directed at Morgan and previously Tyreese.  I expect they'll introduce Tommy Lister next who will be afraid to sleep without a night light.

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8 minutes ago, SacramentoBob said:

That comment was directed at Morgan and previously Tyreese.  I expect they'll introduce Tommy Lister next who will be afraid to sleep without a night light.

Oh, I thought you were referring to a newer guy as being like those two. Carry on. :thumbup:

 

 

Edited by jhib

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How long have the original members been at Alexandria?  Negan hasn't come across them during the last few years but Rick has? 

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3 hours ago, BigJim® said:

Hmm, I can't speak to the comic book handling, but from a purely TV show angle I'm not clear why you would say they hadn't done much to them personally. The biker gang was without question going to shoot Sasha/Abraham in cold blood if not for a hail mary. They were told that everything they owned, up to an including any stash of napkins in the console was Neegan's property. They saw the gang was heavily armed, and were told the gang typically kills one person when introducing itself. Then they heard how Neegan's group introduced itself to Hilltop, killing some kid as a statement, then forcing the beheading of its leader. Rick may be foolhardy for picking this fight, but I'm not sure what sort of additional provocation you would expect in this world before deeming this group an immediate threat to Alexandria. How would you approach this impending threat if you were Rick?

Alexandria has been there years and negan hasn't found them.  I'd take my chances and keep scavenging.  Grow some #### or something 

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If somebody killed an Isis member in his sleep, I'd consider that somebody to be pretty evil. 

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2 minutes ago, Zow said:

If somebody killed an Isis member in his sleep, I'd consider that somebody to be pretty evil. 

How about bombing them from a drone, while they are wide awake? Still evil?

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Just now, BigJim® said:

How about bombing them from a drone, while they are wide awake? Still evil?

Yes, but lesser on the scale. 

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Nm.  Negan already taking food from Alexandria in comics.  Makes more sense. 

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7 hours ago, Jayrok said:

Dale would have fervently been against this raid along with Morgan.  I strenuously object!  

:lol:

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14 minutes ago, Zow said:

If somebody killed an Isis member in his sleep, I'd consider that somebody to be pretty evil. 

Well, you're a #####.

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The bigger question is who wouldn't kill an ISIS member in his sleep

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