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This show has always posed the question of what morality is in this new world and what must you do to survive? As I posted earlier I love how the group has evolved and reached a point where you can legitimately question whether their actions are morally just. It says a lot about the world order that Morgan's view is considered weak and passive when it's one Season 1 & 2 Rick almost certainly would've embraced. Now he not only would understand why Shane sacrificed Otis he would probably ask him why it took Shane so long to come up with the idea.
For one scene, the one that still is at the top of my list is the curb scene in American History X.
I think it'd be boring if there wasn't some kind of internal moral debate about how to best live in this world.
season finale?As far as anyone knows it's all dudes.. The only people Hilltop has seen is guys coming up to the Hilltop, as well as Guys at the Outposts.. Of course your mind says.. where there are dudes there are dudettes.. but then again.. Maybe they don't swing that way .. NTTIAWWT
And for the Bold part.. that will be the kicker in the next week or two.. That this wasn't the "Negan Hideout" just one of his outposts.. But again, Hilltop has only been to this one Outpost so from their view point this was it..
My overall guess.. They will spend the next one or two episodes getting to know this group that kidnapped Carol and Maggie.
They will be under the impression they've taken care of Negan's crew.. until he shows up at their doorstop..
this never happens in the real world.The difference is small but there, at least in their minds..
They sat back and waited to be attacked by the Gov, the wolves and getting suckered into Terminus.. So, knowing the history of Negan, they've decided to take the fight to them instead of waiting for the fight to come to them.
At least that is their justification
again, this stuff is too realistic.
Sure it is but the morality in this new world has been one of the show's foundation points since Day 1. I enjoy that aspect quite a bit. It's why Glenn killing a person for the first time in this episode meant something and why the scene had more dramatic strength. And it's why Gabriel's scene worked so well from the opposite end. Here's a guy who not long ago was a complete coward and now he's buying in totally to Rick's point of view. But should he be doing that and what will the consequences of it be? That's the kind of stuff I really enjoy with this show and one of its strengths.
Yet....
......here we are. The morality questions are the best thing this show has going for it. And this episode was pretty good, right up to Glenn popping his murder cherry.
Maybe if they didn't handle them so hamfisted. Not sure if it the writing, directing, or acting (or a perfect storm) but this show can't do "drama". Whenever they have 2 or more characters talk to each other for more than 1 minute I want to fast-forward.
And added to that the injured guy saying something to the effect that he needs the guy on the motorcycle to heal him after what Carol did to him, so he knows the motorcycle escaping guy is their medic.
I agree with ham-fisted writing, but, will also point out that they aren't quite 2 years their time past the outbreak. And the Alexandrian wussies don't have the luxury of all the experiences that Rick's core group does. Nor Morgan and Abe's group didn't meet up with them until after the prison. Rick started killing people in season 2, but, Glenn hasn't killed anyone alive until this episode and he even talked Rick into sparing the residents of Terminus. Then he was unable to Kill Nicholas after Noah's death.
Hmm, I can't speak to the comic book handling, but from a purely TV show angle I'm not clear why you would say they hadn't done much to them personally. The biker gang was without question going to shoot Sasha/Abraham in cold blood if not for a hail mary. They were told that everything they owned, up to an including any stash of napkins in the console was Neegan's property. They saw the gang was heavily armed, and were told the gang typically kills one person when introducing itself. Then they heard how Neegan's group introduced itself to Hilltop, killing some kid as a statement, then forcing the beheading of its leader. Rick may be foolhardy for picking this fight, but I'm not sure what sort of additional provocation you would expect in this world before deeming this group an immediate threat to Alexandria. How would you approach this impending threat if you were Rick?
I agree with you that this was kind of a gut-wrenching moral turn, with the Alexandrians becoming kind of evil. Personally, though, I liked that change. As others have noted, the group has gotten less and less civilized throughout the franchise, and this struck me as being a logical (but big) step.
Was this about Heath (the guy with Glenn)? I didn't get the impression that he was being a #####, but was just feeling the life-changing moment. It seemed to me like he was going to go through with it just as Glenn had, but Glenn saved him from having to. I think Glenn just felt since he was already going to suffer the consequences later, he might as well save Heath from that and be the one to kill both.
Everyone here is mistaken that they are killing for food. They are helping to kill a group of murderers they needed to kill anyway (how long until Alexandria is exposed to Negan by someone at Hilltop?). Yes, they negotiated food out of it but it was a necessity even if Hilltop refused to give them food and they would not have killed people at Hilltop to get it.tonydead said:
hmm, that is a tough analogy to make. Rick's group were the first to draw blood by killing that group from Negan, and now have killed an entire outpost (or whatever that was) with not even attempting any diplomacy yet. Count me in for Team Negan. Anything he does at this point seems justified for the provocation from Rick's group. Killing a bunch of dudes when they sleep
That comment was directed at Morgan and previously Tyreese. I expect they'll introduce Tommy Lister next who will be afraid to sleep without a night light.
Oh, I thought you were referring to a newer guy as being like those two. Carry on.
