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Do "dawn" and "don" rhyme? (1 Viewer)

Do "dawn" and "don" rhyme?

  • Yes

    Votes: 63 34.4%

  • No

    Votes: 120 65.6%
  • Total voters
    183
GloryDaze said:
I'm hoping fred pronounces dog like Brad Pitt does in Snatch. That would be funny.
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The o sound in dog is virtually identical to the o sound in don, rock, God, hot, or positive. It's hard to say they're exactly identical because of the g sound at the end, but it's the same basic sound.
 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
If this is your opinion, I'd have to say it comes off as an opinion of convenience, since you personally don't use the sound.
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;) Not only that, he's failing to realize that his perception of right/wrong on this issue is largely due to a coincidence. Were he born/raised in England, Wisconsin, Louisiana, or a slew of other English-speaking areas, he'd pronounce the words differently -- and EQUALLY legitimately.
 
Doug B said:
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
If this is your opinion, I'd have to say it comes off as an opinion of convenience, since you personally don't use the sound.
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:thumbup: Not only that, he's failing to realize that his perception of right/wrong on this issue is largely due to a coincidence. Were he born/raised in England, Wisconsin, Louisiana, or a slew of other English-speaking areas, he'd pronounce the words differently -- and EQUALLY legitimately.
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I was born in Massachusetts and think the Massachusetts accent is terrible, which is why I've avoided it and speak proper English instead.
 
I would think if we were trying to build a perfect language from scratch, we would want to avoid any ambiguities like homophones and homographs. Unfortunately such things exist in English, but we should try to reduce confusion and avoid them when possible. If we have two distinct words (with different meanings and spellings), it's clearly preferable to pronounce them differently so they can be distinguished. Thus, I have no idea what BostonFred is talking about with this "proper" nonsense. The proper way to speak is to distinguish between the different vowel sounds, so no one would ever be confused, for example, if you're talking about your brother Don or your sister Dawn.

 
Ignoratio Elenchi said:
I would think if we were trying to build a perfect language from scratch, we would want to avoid any ambiguities like homophones and homographs. Unfortunately such things exist in English, but we should try to reduce confusion and avoid them when possible. If we have two distinct words (with different meanings and spellings), it's clearly preferable to pronounce them differently so they can be distinguished. Thus, I have no idea what BostonFred is talking about with this "proper" nonsense. The proper way to speak is to distinguish between the different vowel sounds, so no one would ever be confused, for example, if you're talking about your brother Don or your sister Dawn.
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If your parents named their kids Don and Dawn, the implication of the intelligence in your gene pool would explain what you're working with.
 
bostonfred said:
... I've avoided it and speak proper English instead.
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Define "proper English".You're on record as saying that "don <> dawn" is "improper". BBC newsreaders, for example, pronounce those words differently. Will you go on record as saying the BBC folks are speaking improper English?

 
GloryDaze said:
Therefore you say rawck, gawd, hawt, and pawsitive?
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That's pretty much Fred's pronunciations to my ears (he posted a youtube video of his pronunciations earlier). It's not an exaggerated thing, but his sounds are more like my "aw" that my "ah".There's an Iowan woman at my work who does the "AH" with all these words.

 
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fatguyinalittlecoat said:
bostonfred said:
Ilov80s said:
So anyone implying that the difference in pronunciation is a new abomination to language is wrong. The merger is actually new and spreading. Fred, I am sorry, but you are a sad man. You are fighting to save our dear language and yet you yourself have unknowingly become destroyed by it. Not only entirely destroyed, but turned inside out to the point that you believe right is wrong and black is white.
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I really don't care which order things happened in. The question is which is preferable. First, the cacaphonic pronuncuations of cawfee and doe-un are unambiguously worse on the ear. Second, the need for multiple but similar sounds in words makes the English language more difficult to learn and makes dialects more difficult to understand. It's OK for words that are spelled differently to sound the same. That's why there's a name for it. Third, your own link points out that it's spreading through the most educated areas of the country. That implies that the smart people know it's better. I'm sorry you're not part of that camp.
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Do you think there are any other vowel sounds in the English language that we should get rid of? Or just this one?
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He's from the smart part of the country. When EF Hutton bostonfred talks, people listen.
 
bostonfred said:
Ignoratio Elenchi said:
I would think if we were trying to build a perfect language from scratch, we would want to avoid any ambiguities like homophones and homographs. Unfortunately such things exist in English, but we should try to reduce confusion and avoid them when possible. If we have two distinct words (with different meanings and spellings), it's clearly preferable to pronounce them differently so they can be distinguished. Thus, I have no idea what BostonFred is talking about with this "proper" nonsense. The proper way to speak is to distinguish between the different vowel sounds, so no one would ever be confused, for example, if you're talking about your brother Don or your sister Dawn.
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If your parents named their kids Don and Dawn, the implication of the intelligence in your gene pool would explain what you're working with.
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:blackdot:
 
Ruffrodys05 said:
Finless said:
Death Bytes said:
Finless said:
Yankee23Fan said:
Cot and caught do not sound alike
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:confused:
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Well they ot too.
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cot bot aught fought onslaught shot taut caught rot lot
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Not all of those rhyme with each other.....cot=bot=shot=rot=lot=pot=dot=notaught=fought=onslaught=taut=caught=taught=bought=naughtbout=shout=cloutThese are 3 very distinct pronunciation variations.Now do you get it?
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No, I don't. I'm not sure you get it either. Lines 1 and 2 rhyme. Not sure what the hell the third line is all about.
 
I work in a call center, and today I spoke to a woman today who said her name was "Don". Initially I thought it was weird that a woman had a guys name, but then remembered this thread. Then I pulled up her account, and yes, her name was Dawn. But she absolutely said "Don", and no, they don't sound the same.

 
Radical Larry said:
Ignoratio Elenchi said:
Harry Manback said:
Ignoratio Elenchi said:
jplvr said:
what people pronounce Mary, merry, and marry differently?
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:unsure:I can't imagine people would pronounce any two of those the same way, let alone all three.
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Mary and marry = the sameMerry = different, a little upset that wasn't an option.
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Mary rhymes with dairy.Marry rhymes with Larry.Merry rhymes with cherry.None of those rhyme with each other.
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OK, this has to be shtick. All 6 of those rhyme.
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I'm pretty sure everyone can agree on this.
 
17seconds said:
I was The Midlands (no accent)One thing I realized taking that test. I say Don and Dawn slightly differently, but I still think they rhyme.I know someone who has a strange quirk. They say everything like a typical "no accent" person with one exception. They pronounce the vowel in "egg" like the "eigh" in "neighbor". I have no idea where this came from. They grew up in california and nobody in their family says it that way. When they say "Greg" they pronounce it "Grayg"
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I say eighgg and Grayg.
 
bostonfred said:
GloryDaze said:
I'm hoping fred pronounces dog like Brad Pitt does in Snatch. That would be funny.
Click to expand...
The o sound in dog is virtually identical to the o sound in don, rock, God, hot, or positive. It's hard to say they're exactly identical because of the g sound at the end, but it's the same basic sound.
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Wait, so you pronounce all of those words with the same o sound as Dawn? So dawn, pawn, lawn all rhyme with don, non, con.You'd say "I have to go mow my Lon?" This is simply absurd.
 
shuke said:
17seconds said:
I was The Midlands (no accent)One thing I realized taking that test. I say Don and Dawn slightly differently, but I still think they rhyme.I know someone who has a strange quirk. They say everything like a typical "no accent" person with one exception. They pronounce the vowel in "egg" like the "eigh" in "neighbor". I have no idea where this came from. They grew up in california and nobody in their family says it that way. When they say "Greg" they pronounce it "Grayg"
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I say eighgg and Grayg.
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:X
 
Ruffrodys05 said:
Finless said:
Death Bytes said:
Finless said:
Yankee23Fan said:
Cot and caught do not sound alike
Click to expand...
:loco:
Click to expand...
Well they ot too.
Click to expand...
cot bot aught fought onslaught shot taut caught rot lot
Click to expand...
Not all of those rhyme with each other.....cot=bot=shot=rot=lot=pot=dot=notaught=fought=onslaught=taut=caught=taught=bought=naughtbout=shout=cloutThese are 3 very distinct pronunciation variations.Now do you get it?
Click to expand...
:X
 
RJS113 said:
I work in a call center, and today I spoke to a woman today who said her name was "Don". Initially I thought it was weird that a woman had a guys name, but then remembered this thread. Then I pulled up her account, and yes, her name was Dawn. But she absolutely said "Don", and no, they don't sound the same.
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Did you listen to Aaron's youtube? I'm curious as to how she sounded. Did she say Dawn the way Aaron said Don? I find that hard to believe. The way Aaron said Don was like he was a screaming asian.
 
RJS113 said:
I work in a call center, and today I spoke to a woman today who said her name was "Don". Initially I thought it was weird that a woman had a guys name, but then remembered this thread. Then I pulled up her account, and yes, her name was Dawn. But she absolutely said "Don", and no, they don't sound the same.
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Apparently they do.
 
Radical Larry said:
RJS113 said:
I work in a call center, and today I spoke to a woman today who said her name was "Don". Initially I thought it was weird that a woman had a guys name, but then remembered this thread. Then I pulled up her account, and yes, her name was Dawn. But she absolutely said "Don", and no, they don't sound the same.
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Apparently they do.
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Absurd, apparently the woman just doesn't know how to pronounce her own name.
 
Ruffrodys05 said:
Finless said:
Death Bytes said:
Finless said:
Yankee23Fan said:
Cot and caught do not sound alike
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Well they ot too.
Click to expand...
cot bot aught fought onslaught shot taut caught rot lot
Click to expand...
Not all of those rhyme with each other.....cot=bot=shot=rot=lot=pot=dot=notaught=fought=onslaught=taut=caught=taught=bought=naughtbout=shout=cloutThese are 3 very distinct pronunciation variations.Now do you get it?
Click to expand...
No, those all rhymed.
 
tribecalledjeff said:
bostonfred said:
GloryDaze said:
I'm hoping fred pronounces dog like Brad Pitt does in Snatch. That would be funny.
Click to expand...
The o sound in dog is virtually identical to the o sound in don, rock, God, hot, or positive. It's hard to say they're exactly identical because of the g sound at the end, but it's the same basic sound.
Click to expand...
Wait, so you pronounce all of those words with the same o sound as Dawn? So dawn, pawn, lawn all rhyme with don, non, con.You'd say "I have to go mow my Lon?" This is simply absurd.
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You're absurd.
 
Yes [ 133 ] [41.56%]

No [ 187 ] [58.44%]

I hear there are 84 mail in votes that haven't been counted yet. This could still swing the other way.

Most of the mail in votes are military personel. Anyone know how they speak?

 
bostonfred said:
Doug B said:
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
If this is your opinion, I'd have to say it comes off as an opinion of convenience, since you personally don't use the sound.
Click to expand...
:goodposting: Not only that, he's failing to realize that his perception of right/wrong on this issue is largely due to a coincidence. Were he born/raised in England, Wisconsin, Louisiana, or a slew of other English-speaking areas, he'd pronounce the words differently -- and EQUALLY legitimately.
Click to expand...
I was born in Massachusetts and think the Massachusetts accent is terrible, which is why I've avoided it and speak proper English instead.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:
 
I think I see a correlation here, as I've noticed that the vast majority of the people in this thread supporting a different pronunciation between these two words do not post in the "Recently viewed movie thread".

Do you freakazoids watch film? The only modern movie I can even think of in which these two words would be pronounced differently is The Departed. Now that should tell you something...

 
I pronounce them the same. Not sure how they could be different.
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"Aw" vs. "Ah"Happy to help.
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I need a cup of coffee - which is pronounced cahfee - and would be pronounced cahfee even if it were spelled cawfee - and should never, ever be pronounced the way you pronounce it - before I can continue edifying your ilk.
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Crawfish. / thread
 
Anyone interested should read History of English Low Back Vowels

Go to the section called "Cot-caught" merger.

The cot-caught merger (also known as the low back merger) is a phonemic merger, a sound change, that occurs in some varieties of English...is best known as a phenomenon of many varieties of North American English.

It is very widespread across Canada, the Boston, Massachusetts area (see Boston accent) and northeastern New England, the Pittsburgh area (see Pittsburghese), and is also heard throughout the western U.S. The latter seems to be the source of its introduction into the Midwest as it appears to be spreading eastward. A recent survey directed by William Labov of the University of Pennsylvania has shown that the merger can be found today among younger generations (roughly people under 40) in Kansas, Nebraska, and the Dakotas
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.Labov et al. also reveal that about 15% of respondents have the merger before /n/ but not before /t/, so that Don and Dawn are homophonous, but cot and caught are not. A much smaller group (about 4%) has the reverse situation: cot and caught are homophonous but Don and Dawn are distinct.
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So anyone implying that the difference in pronunciation is a new abomination to language is wrong. The merger is actually new and spreading. Fred, I am sorry, but you are a sad man. You are fighting to save our dear language and yet you yourself have unknowingly become destroyed by it. Not only entirely destroyed, but turned inside out to the point that you believe right is wrong and black is white.
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sick ownage here.
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This.
 
If there is one thing I've learned from the multitude of posts in this thread, it's this: I'm so ####### glad my name isn't Don.

On that note, what about #### and caulk?

 
Do you think there are any other vowel sounds in the English language that we should get rid of? Or just this one?
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I'm flattered that you're looking for my opinion, but I roll with the millions and millions of people who are correctly making the soft o sound and improving this world one long Don at a time.
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I'm not "looking for your opinion," I'm trying to figure out the reach of your argument. One of your primary claims is that the two sounds should be pronounced the same because it "makes the English language more difficult to learn and makes dialects more difficult to understand." But I'm fairly certain that you would agree that the language would be hopelessly confusing if there was only one vowel sound, for example. I'm just trying to figure out what you believe to be the optimal number of vowel sounds.
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The current number minus the aw sound in cawfee would be a good start. The aw sound in Dawn is secondary to cawfee, which is easily the worst sounding mispronunciation of a word known to modern man.
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I'm in awe. Sorry, I mean in ah.
 
Otis said:
Do you think there are any other vowel sounds in the English language that we should get rid of? Or just this one?
Click to expand...
I'm flattered that you're looking for my opinion, but I roll with the millions and millions of people who are correctly making the soft o sound and improving this world one long Don at a time.
Click to expand...
I'm not "looking for your opinion," I'm trying to figure out the reach of your argument. One of your primary claims is that the two sounds should be pronounced the same because it "makes the English language more difficult to learn and makes dialects more difficult to understand." But I'm fairly certain that you would agree that the language would be hopelessly confusing if there was only one vowel sound, for example. I'm just trying to figure out what you believe to be the optimal number of vowel sounds.
Click to expand...
The current number minus the aw sound in cawfee would be a good start. The aw sound in Dawn is secondary to cawfee, which is easily the worst sounding mispronunciation of a word known to modern man.
Click to expand...
I'm in awe. Sorry, I mean in ah.
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Awe should not be pronounced like awwwww. It's not a cutesy wootsy baby waby sound.
 
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