trogg78
Footballguy
As long as you aren't taking a lot of long dry hits you should be fine.
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Electronic Cigarettes (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter (HULK)
- Start date
(HULK)
(Smash)
Here is the supplemental appendix to the study. I don't see the Ohms listed though:
http://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMc1413069/suppl_file/nejmc1413069_appendix.pdf
http://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMc1413069/suppl_file/nejmc1413069_appendix.pdf
(HULK)
(Smash)
A more even handed report on the study. Still unable to dig up a full disclosure of their methods including the Ohms.
(Reuters) - People who smoke high-voltage e-cigarettes have greater exposure to formaldehyde, a suspected carcinogen, than those who keep the voltage low, according to a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine on Wednesday.
The study, which critics say is misleading and lacks context, is the latest contribution to a debate on the safety of e-cigarettes that has so far has yielded little long-term data, though most experts believe they are less toxic than combustible cigarettes.
Researchers from Portland State University took flavored nicotine liquid made by Halo Cigs, a private company, and tested it in a personal vaporizer from Innokin. The vaporizer allows consumers to adjust the voltage from 3.3V to 5.0V. The higher the voltage the greater the nicotine kick, but also the greater the amount of formaldehyde.
E-cigarette liquids typically contain propylene glycol, which when heated is known to release formaldehyde gas. "Vaping" at high voltage also produced formaldehyde-containing compounds known as hemiacetals, the researchers found.
Formaldehyde inhaled as a gas been associated with an increased risk of leukemia and nasopharyngeal cancer, which affects the upper part of the throat behind the nose.
It is not known exactly where formaldehyde contained in hemiacetals gets deposited in the body or whether it is similarly toxic, said James Pankow, one of the study's authors.
"There has never been a cancer study with hemiacetals," Pankow said in an interview.
Absent such a study, the authors estimated the formaldehyde-related cancer risk associated with e-cigarettes by extrapolating from data on formaldehyde in cigarettes.
They concluded that the life-time risk of developing formaldehyde-related cancer at roughly 1 in 200 for high-voltage e-cigarettes versus 1 in 1,000 for cigarettes - at least five times higher. They found no increased risk for people vaping at a low voltage.
Dr. Neal Benowitz, a nicotine expert at the University of California, San Francisco, said the study could prove useful to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration as it prepares to regulate e-cigarettes, potentially including limits on formaldehyde.
But he questioned the legitimacy of comparing the effect of formaldehyde delivered in a cigarette to that delivered via hemiacetal, in droplet form, in an e-cigarette. The effect on organs could be entirely different, he said.
Other critics said that in the real world most "vapers" do not push the voltage to the levels seen in the study as the taste would become unpalatable. They also noted that the overall health risk of conventional cigarettes, which contain 70,000 toxins in addition to formaldehyde, is far greater than any formaldehyde risk associated with e-cigarettes.
"Lifelong smokers face a greater than 1 in 2 chance of dying from smoking-related diseases, including a roughly 1 in 10 chance of dying from lung cancer," said Jed Rose, director of the Center for Smoking Cessation at Duke University Medical Center.
Pankow conceded that the study could have contained more context about overall relative risk, but said the authors "just wanted to get it out."
They submitted it to the NEJM in the form of a letter, which a spokeswoman for the journal said was peer-reviewed. Pankow said letters tend to be less detailed than other studies.
David Abrams, executive director of the Schroeder Institute for Tobacco Research and Policy Studies at the anti-tobacco group Legacy, said he was concerned the study would be taken out of context "in the worst possible way."
For most vapers who use e-cigarettes as intended, he said, the findings show "there are non-detectable levels of formaldehyde ... which means people can use them to help them quit smoking lethal cigarettes."
(Reuters) - People who smoke high-voltage e-cigarettes have greater exposure to formaldehyde, a suspected carcinogen, than those who keep the voltage low, according to a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine on Wednesday.
The study, which critics say is misleading and lacks context, is the latest contribution to a debate on the safety of e-cigarettes that has so far has yielded little long-term data, though most experts believe they are less toxic than combustible cigarettes.
Researchers from Portland State University took flavored nicotine liquid made by Halo Cigs, a private company, and tested it in a personal vaporizer from Innokin. The vaporizer allows consumers to adjust the voltage from 3.3V to 5.0V. The higher the voltage the greater the nicotine kick, but also the greater the amount of formaldehyde.
E-cigarette liquids typically contain propylene glycol, which when heated is known to release formaldehyde gas. "Vaping" at high voltage also produced formaldehyde-containing compounds known as hemiacetals, the researchers found.
Formaldehyde inhaled as a gas been associated with an increased risk of leukemia and nasopharyngeal cancer, which affects the upper part of the throat behind the nose.
It is not known exactly where formaldehyde contained in hemiacetals gets deposited in the body or whether it is similarly toxic, said James Pankow, one of the study's authors.
"There has never been a cancer study with hemiacetals," Pankow said in an interview.
Absent such a study, the authors estimated the formaldehyde-related cancer risk associated with e-cigarettes by extrapolating from data on formaldehyde in cigarettes.
They concluded that the life-time risk of developing formaldehyde-related cancer at roughly 1 in 200 for high-voltage e-cigarettes versus 1 in 1,000 for cigarettes - at least five times higher. They found no increased risk for people vaping at a low voltage.
Dr. Neal Benowitz, a nicotine expert at the University of California, San Francisco, said the study could prove useful to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration as it prepares to regulate e-cigarettes, potentially including limits on formaldehyde.
But he questioned the legitimacy of comparing the effect of formaldehyde delivered in a cigarette to that delivered via hemiacetal, in droplet form, in an e-cigarette. The effect on organs could be entirely different, he said.
Other critics said that in the real world most "vapers" do not push the voltage to the levels seen in the study as the taste would become unpalatable. They also noted that the overall health risk of conventional cigarettes, which contain 70,000 toxins in addition to formaldehyde, is far greater than any formaldehyde risk associated with e-cigarettes.
"Lifelong smokers face a greater than 1 in 2 chance of dying from smoking-related diseases, including a roughly 1 in 10 chance of dying from lung cancer," said Jed Rose, director of the Center for Smoking Cessation at Duke University Medical Center.
Pankow conceded that the study could have contained more context about overall relative risk, but said the authors "just wanted to get it out."
They submitted it to the NEJM in the form of a letter, which a spokeswoman for the journal said was peer-reviewed. Pankow said letters tend to be less detailed than other studies.
David Abrams, executive director of the Schroeder Institute for Tobacco Research and Policy Studies at the anti-tobacco group Legacy, said he was concerned the study would be taken out of context "in the worst possible way."
For most vapers who use e-cigarettes as intended, he said, the findings show "there are non-detectable levels of formaldehyde ... which means people can use them to help them quit smoking lethal cigarettes."
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
What is the default voltage for most e-cigs?
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I vape at 3.7V - max 4.2 if a battery if fully charged (a 3.7V 18650 will start discharging around 4.2V but then rapidly fall off to ~3.7 and will continue to produce vapor down to about 3.2V) I also use VG (vegetable glycerin)-based juices almost exclusively rather than PG-based. So, I'm considering my formaldehyde intake to be negligible if anything.
Wingnut
Footballguy
What's your usual VG/PG ratio in the juices you make?
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I do the vast majority of my vaping through the REO Grand - the owner (Rob O' Neil) manufactured those specifically to work best with pure VG-based liquids as he has a PG allergy. Most devices/atomizers don't play well with VG, but I have my REO outfitted with a sub-ohm kit with rebuildable double coil atomizers and ReadyX ceramic wick, which all works swimmingly with VG juices.
Gawain
Footballguy
I'm thinking about picking up a reo. Right now my go-to is a Provari 2.0.
What type of atomizers are you using?
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Reomizer 2.0 rba. It's $43 but that's a one-time cost. From there, you make a coil out of kanthal wire and a wick out of cotton, bamboo, or ceramic wicking (a pinch of cotton, like off a cotton ball, rolled out into wick shape with your fingers works beautifully.) Replace the wick every couple of weeks, the coil will last months or even years. You can burn it clean with the unit itself.
I have my daily vape expense down to about $0.05/day between being able to re-wick with a fraction of a cent's worth of cotton instead of a $2 atomizer and making my own juice with hyper-concentrated flavors.
Gawain
Footballguy
I've got a Russian 91 that I use on an itaste 134 at home, but I'm less handy than a guy named Art hanging on a wall. Me rewicking is worse than Eli Whitney's workshop.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Re-wicking these coils is so incredibly simple. Pinch of cotton, roll it into a wick shape with thumb and forefinger, slide it in, cut off ends to fit under the cap of the RBA. It literally takes 60 seconds, and I'm just as feeble as you are, I'm sure. I can barely change the tire on my car.
In The Zone
Footballguy
I've got 2 of these coming Monday.
http://www.eleafworld.com/product/detail.php/istick-50w.html
I've read nothing but good things.
I now need a tank that can keep up. Has any tried one of these?
http://www.eciggity.com/delta-ii-by-joyetech/
Has anyone tried this?
http://www.eleafworld.com/product/detail.php/istick-50w.html
I've read nothing but good things.
I now need a tank that can keep up. Has any tried one of these?
http://www.eciggity.com/delta-ii-by-joyetech/
Has anyone tried this?
Wingnut
Footballguy
OK this thread is too long to read through...I'm done with the DCT tanks...the cartos are too PITA to keep wet, they don't last, and I'm tired of dry nasty hits.
What's the next step up? I'm using 510 ego style batteries right now...I want something that I can get flavorful, heavy vape hits with every time. Also looking for a setup less than $100 for initial setup, and low monthly cost.
Whatchya got?
What's the next step up? I'm using 510 ego style batteries right now...I want something that I can get flavorful, heavy vape hits with every time. Also looking for a setup less than $100 for initial setup, and low monthly cost.
Whatchya got?
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trogg78
Footballguy
Wish I could help. I bought my REO Grande and Reo Mini 4 years ago and those are the only two devices I use. It would be more than $100 to get set up, but will last a lifetime (Mechanical mod made out of a block of aluminum). I know EG uses a Reo, or did last I heard. reo grande is like $150, you would want a Reomizer RBA for $45. And then batteries are about $10 (AW 18650) a piece.
Gawain
Footballguy
30W ileaf stick for 45 bucks. Aspire Nautilus tank for 25 bucks. Pack of 5 coils for 20 bucks.
Tecumseh
Footballguy
I use an eLeaf istick 30W variable voltage with a mini Nautilus. Works great, and comes in well under $100.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
In The Zone
Footballguy
I've got 2 eleaf istick 50w and have 2 of these https://www.myfreedomsmokes.com/tanks-rbas/subohm-tanks/kanger-subtank-mini-rta-atomizer.html.
The flavor from these tanks is incredible.
I also have one of these http://vapenw.com/sub-ohm-tank/delta-ii-atomizer-by-joyetech. The flavor is a notch below the Kanger sub tank mini but the vapor production is amazing. Big clouds.
The Kanger comes with an extra glass tube, extra orings, and the rebuildable section is included also.
I highly recommend the Kanger subtank mini.
You will go through more juice with these tanks but it's worth it. A different way to vape.
Now let me say this. If you are gonne rock one of these you need to make sure you have a mod that can handle it. You also need to go 6mg of nicotine or lower.
The flavor from these tanks is incredible.
I also have one of these http://vapenw.com/sub-ohm-tank/delta-ii-atomizer-by-joyetech. The flavor is a notch below the Kanger sub tank mini but the vapor production is amazing. Big clouds.
The Kanger comes with an extra glass tube, extra orings, and the rebuildable section is included also.
I highly recommend the Kanger subtank mini.
You will go through more juice with these tanks but it's worth it. A different way to vape.
Now let me say this. If you are gonne rock one of these you need to make sure you have a mod that can handle it. You also need to go 6mg of nicotine or lower.
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
How often do you have replace the coil head? No rebuilding or anything with these right?
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
In The Zone
Footballguy
I ordered my first one on May 23 and ordered my second one on June 6. I'm still on the same .5 ohm coils that came with both. They also come with a 1.2 ohm head. I'm not a real heavy vapor though. I usually go through one of these tanks a day( 3.5 ml). I set the wattage between 21-25. I'm sure both of mine will need to changed soon.
You don't have to rebuild with these, but you can. I've never tried. I bought 2 5 pack .5ohm heads on June 6 also. Here's a link. https://www.myfreedomsmokes.com/replacement-coils-heads/shop-by-brand/kangertech/occ-vertical-coil-replacement-head-5pack.html
These tanks are real easy to fill and clean which is a bonus.
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Wingnut
Footballguy
Jesus, taking a quick look at some of the recommendations, I feel like a noob all over again. I have zero clue as to how these tanks work and the terminology...I think Ill hit one of my local vape shops and see if they carry any of these and have them show me the ins and outs.
Or maybe Ill just hang it up and try to quit.
Or maybe Ill just hang it up and try to quit.
(HULK)
(Smash)
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I still use the Grand. Highly recommend. Yeah, the unit and the RBA and a few batteries are going to run you about $250 up front, but then the cost of vaping drops to nearly zero. I bought a liter of 100mg nic base and 3 bottles of hyper-concentrated FlavourArt juice flavoring (which lasts a long time, you can mix your stuff at 1-3% flavor and it's very vapable) so now my only costs of maintenance are kanthal wire, cotton balls and the occasional quart of vegetable glycerin. I spend maybe $5-10 annually on vaping and the REOs are built to last forever. I suppose the Reomizer RBA may crap the bed at some point, so that's $45 to replace, and I have to buy a liter of the nic base every 3 years or so, but vaping is basically free for me now with a ~$300 initial investment.
Tecumseh
Footballguy
No issues at all. Works great. The only problem I have is that it's easy to accidentally adjust the voltage when it's in your pocket, so every now and then I'll get a blast at 5+ volts instead of the 4.0 where I usually have it.
Wingnut
Footballguy
Checked out a video of this, it looks simple enough. I dont want to get into the box style batteries, Id rather stick with the traditional type (currently using 1300mAh Smok Ego winders), so I might look deeper into these. Im more about flavor than huge vape clouds.
My only concern with the EMOW is with a 1.8ml tank capacity, Id feel like Id filling it constantly.
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(HULK)
(Smash)
Yeah, tank capacity isn't the best (you can use other tanks though). I do really like the airflow adjuster on it, works great.
In The Zone
Footballguy
I've had this happen a time or two as well. The way to prevent this is to hold the up/down buttons together for 3 seconds to lock or unlock the device. The only thing that will work when the device is locked is the fire button.
Wingnut
Footballguy
E-cigs "around 95% less harmful" than regular smoking, according to a new report.
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-regular-smoking-according-independent-report
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-regular-smoking-according-independent-report
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I ordered it and a Kanger Subtank mini.
I had been off the analogs for two+ years but fell off the wagon a bit lately. Need some new gear to keep me engaged.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I know this is a stupid reason to change all my equipment, but I'd really prefer a boxier look/feel from my ecig. I'm considering moving to an eleaf kind of a thing but don't know what to get. I don't really need any bells and whistles - my visions spinner IIs are fine, set almost permanently to 3.8 volts, I'd just like a longer lasting battery and a more sturdy feel to it. Any suggestions for an old guy who doesn't want anything fancy?
Best case scenario:
A boxy battery that is easy to lock onto settings and forget about
A tank that isn't made of glass and is virtually impossible to break
Don't have to replace coils very often.
Best case scenario:
A boxy battery that is easy to lock onto settings and forget about
A tank that isn't made of glass and is virtually impossible to break
Don't have to replace coils very often.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Well, it's virtually indestructible and it brings your cost of vaping down to virtually nil. A few 18650 batteries, some kanthal wire and wicking material (I use ready x wick which lasts forever but you could easily use cotton balls) and you're done. I make my own juice too - vaping costs me less than a dollar a month.It's mechanical too, so in theory the mod will last basically forever.
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Gawain
Footballguy
Those who squonk will tell you a Reo is worth it and more.
I've heard very few negative reviews and I often think about biting the bullet on a Woodvil.
I have heard that you need to drill your RBA to get them to properly get the Reo to work.
I'm not handy enough for all of that.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
My brother drilled his, I didn't. I prefer the tighter draw, he likes an airier draw. I can tell you unequivocally that you don't NEED to do anything to it and it will work great. The hardest part is twisting coils from kanthal but they have cheap gadgets that can help you do that too.
SteevieG
Footballguy
I just got that exact set up Saturday at a place in Monroe, GA. I really do like it. How long will the battery go without recharging? They told me about 3 days with heavy vaping, which I do.
Ben & Jerry's
Footballguy
The battery on an istick 30 is rated @ 2200 mah. You will get 2 heavy days of vaping or 3 days of average use.
I would recommend you consider a different tank for your istick. The Eleaf GS Air runs about $10-12 bucks and a 5 pack of coils is $8-10.
The Eleaf coils last A LOT longer than the Nautilus do. I own both the full size as well as the mini Nautilus. Since buying the GS Air tank I no longer use either. Their coils really
are crap compared to Eleaf.
You can get either the .8 or 1.2 ohm coils and vape either around 25 watts for great results.
I would recommend you consider a different tank for your istick. The Eleaf GS Air runs about $10-12 bucks and a 5 pack of coils is $8-10.
The Eleaf coils last A LOT longer than the Nautilus do. I own both the full size as well as the mini Nautilus. Since buying the GS Air tank I no longer use either. Their coils really
are crap compared to Eleaf.
You can get either the .8 or 1.2 ohm coils and vape either around 25 watts for great results.
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BigJim®
Footballguy
What do you know, a blast from the past in FFA. Been a while since I posted in this thread because I'm basically on autopilot with the eCig over the past 4 years. Not a single real cig since I started, and still not tempted. Sort of humorous back in February 2011 I posted that I didn't care if I became a slave to eCigs if it got me off the real ones. Well, here I am. Still on the old school Vapor Titan/6ML tanks, even though I got a freebie dial a volt at one point that I still haven't tried. Only obstacle I've encountered is Bananas Foster turned on me... after 3 years of bliss it suddenly started giving me significant head/lung congestion where I couldn't even vape anymore at the end of a long day. I can only speculate that V4L changed the formula with something my body didn't like. Oh well, it's red energy now. Pretty bored with it actually after several months - I used to swap over to red energy for a day here or there as a change-up. Not my favorite flavor but I don't really have the enthusiasm to search out something I love after winding up with dozens of bottles I'll never use during the experiment stage. Red Energy seems to have the type of throat hit I require, and I guess that's good enough for now.
Cunk
Footballguy
I purchased 2 Vapros Spinners II recently when my g/f was in San Diego. I'm not impressed. One won't charge fully so it only gives me about 3-4 hours of care-free vaping and the other doesn't seem to last as long as my 2-year-old knock-off mini egos. They say one should get about 2 days of vaping. The one that gives me the longer charge has to be unplugged from the charger then plugged back in to fully charge. I tried that method with the other and it doesn't continue to charge. I've read about these problems on numerous forums. Returning them isn't an option because we are in Argentina.
It sucks because vaping here is banned so I really have to count on these to last until the next opportunity to purchase something in the US.
It sucks because vaping here is banned so I really have to count on these to last until the next opportunity to purchase something in the US.
Cunk
Footballguy
Unfortunately if I get sent a package I have to go wait in line for hours to pick it up at an agency and pay a 50% tax on everything received if I even receive it at all. They are notoriously bad here with mail. It's just not worth it.
Vaping is banned here because "it doesn't seem to get people off of real cigs" in a nutshell. So laughable. I did find a store that had a battery for sale in a hidden cabinet at a head shop but at the time I was just looking for juice. I went back a few weeks later (different clerk) and they said they don't have any supplies.
Cunk
Footballguy
Have any of you had success cleaning cartomizers (boiling them, etc.)? Since I can't buy them here in Argentina because they are banned, I've been saving my used cartomizers in case the comes a time where I don't have any fresh supplies.
This seems like a question meant for 2011 but it might be a reality for me. Hope not.
This seems like a question meant for 2011 but it might be a reality for me. Hope not.
trogg78
Footballguy
Yes you can boil them. They do take a long time to dry and if they aren't completely dry they won't work. I have put them in the oven to dry on really low.
Cunk
Footballguy
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