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Talk About Alcohol (1 Viewer)

How much alcohol do you drink?

  • 14+ drinks per week

    Votes: 51 14.8%
  • 7-13 drinks per week

    Votes: 56 16.2%
  • 3-6 drinks per week

    Votes: 62 18.0%
  • 1-2 drinks per week

    Votes: 28 8.1%
  • A few drinks a month

    Votes: 45 13.0%
  • A few drinks a year

    Votes: 35 10.1%
  • Mostly not at all

    Votes: 23 6.7%
  • I don't drink at all

    Votes: 45 13.0%

  • Total voters
    345
Genuine question - to the edibles/gummy/THC crowd:

What kind of work do you guys do? I'm random drug-tested for work 2-4 times per year, which is probably the only reason why I haven't tried anything in this realm. Is it ignorant for me to assume you guys don't have to deal with that in your employment? That's the only thing I can think of when I read these posts...
Not drug tested at my work. What a dumb policy anyway

Also - are you sure they would test for what is a legal substance in like half the country?
only legal for medicinal use in my state - should have mentioned that. And yes, nuclear plant so they test for everything...
Government employees cannot use weed even if it is legal in the state you reside in.

Oh ho ho. That might be legally correct but not true at all
Sure you can partake but risk failing a drug test and getting fired.
 

One other question I have - how does the cannabis high differ from alcohol?
There are varying sorts of highs depending on the strain and whether it's smoked or its an edible. The former tends to give you more of a mind high whereas the edible tends to provide more of a body high.

Also, at least in my experience, the level of mgs makes a huge difference. For me, if I take over 10 mgs, the high is way too intense, my mind will wander places (see my example above about mentally going back to my college dorm and truly feeling like I was there). I would not be able to focus on simple tasks such as following a TV show, carrying a conversation, etc. It's frankly too intense, too much of a loss of control, and I don't enjoy it. In comparison,

But, with the right dose (5-10 mgs for me), the high is much more of a relaxing high than alcohol and it includes my body. I haven't taken much prescription medication in my life, but I was briefly prescribed a muscle relaxer (Flexeril) after a sports injury and it probably compares most to that (though not as strong). In contrast, an alcohol high tends to give me more energy and endorphins but can quickly switch to a headache or a more intense feeling of lethargy.
That is what happened to me, it was way too intense. I was thinking about stuff from my childhood! My issue is you can`t control it, once you take it you are on for the ride good or bad.

I never drink when I golf because if I have more than 1-2 beers I start losing my focus on the course, so when the round is over nothing is better than to pound some beers and talk about the round. The first 1-2 hours of an alcohol buzz is the best. Then it goes downhill from there.

I play with guys who will have 6-8 beers over 18 holes and still shoot pretty good. Don`t know how.
Irrational confidence, endorphin boost, knowing how to have the right amount without going overboard, maintaining hydration and implementing some caffeine.

(I'm one of those guys)
 
Genuine question - to the edibles/gummy/THC crowd:

What kind of work do you guys do? I'm random drug-tested for work 2-4 times per year, which is probably the only reason why I haven't tried anything in this realm. Is it ignorant for me to assume you guys don't have to deal with that in your employment? That's the only thing I can think of when I read these posts...
Not drug tested at my work. What a dumb policy anyway

Also - are you sure they would test for what is a legal substance in like half the country?
only legal for medicinal use in my state - should have mentioned that. And yes, nuclear plant so they test for everything...
Government employees cannot use weed even if it is legal in the state you reside in.

Oh ho ho. That might be legally correct but not true at all
Sure you can partake but risk failing a drug test and getting fired.

It kinda depends where you work. I don't partake but work in and around gov folks everyday. No one gets tested. Like ever.
 
Genuine question - to the edibles/gummy/THC crowd:

What kind of work do you guys do? I'm random drug-tested for work 2-4 times per year, which is probably the only reason why I haven't tried anything in this realm. Is it ignorant for me to assume you guys don't have to deal with that in your employment? That's the only thing I can think of when I read these posts...
Not drug tested at my work. What a dumb policy anyway

Also - are you sure they would test for what is a legal substance in like half the country?
only legal for medicinal use in my state - should have mentioned that. And yes, nuclear plant so they test for everything...
Government employees cannot use weed even if it is legal in the state you reside in.

Oh ho ho. That might be legally correct but not true at all
Sure you can partake but risk failing a drug test and getting fired.

It kinda depends where you work. I don't partake but work in and around gov folks everyday. No one gets tested. Like ever.
We have random testing. It's not frequent but it does happen. I was tested last month.
 
I’m looking more for an altered awareness, or heightened experience, as opposed to just chilling out. I’d rather exercise to exhaustion to achieve the latter.
You should look into shrooms, micro-dosing shrooms, and dabbing concentrates at low temp
Figured I’m headed down that path, though legality for psychedelics seems even murkier than cannabis.

I have a friend who recently got involved with mushrooms. Claims it’s the best thing that ever happened to her, both spiritually and emotionally. After partaking, she quit her job, purchased a bunch of mushroom t-shirts, and is working on a patent for eco-friendly Easter eggs.
 
I have a friend who recently got involved with mushrooms. Claims it’s the best thing that ever happened to her, both spiritually and emotionally. After partaking, she quit her job, purchased a bunch of mushroom t-shirts, and is working on a patent for eco-friendly Easter eggs.

:lmao:
 
  • Laughing
Reactions: SWC
I’m looking more for an altered awareness, or heightened experience, as opposed to just chilling out. I’d rather exercise to exhaustion to achieve the latter.
You should look into shrooms, micro-dosing shrooms, and dabbing concentrates at low temp
Figured I’m headed down that path, though legality for psychedelics seems even murkier than cannabis.

I have a friend who recently got involved with mushrooms. Claims it’s the best thing that ever happened to her, both spiritually and emotionally. After partaking, she quit her job, purchased a bunch of mushroom t-shirts, and is working on a patent for eco-friendly Easter eggs.
I may have had the same ones as a kid. They the ones with a plumber also on them?
 
I’m looking more for an altered awareness, or heightened experience, as opposed to just chilling out. I’d rather exercise to exhaustion to achieve the latter.
You should look into shrooms, micro-dosing shrooms, and dabbing concentrates at low temp
Figured I’m headed down that path, though legality for psychedelics seems even murkier than cannabis.

I have a friend who recently got involved with mushrooms. Claims it’s the best thing that ever happened to her, both spiritually and emotionally. After partaking, she quit her job, purchased a bunch of mushroom t-shirts, and is working on a patent for eco-friendly Easter eggs.
I may have had the same ones as a kid. They the ones with a plumber also on them?
No plumbers, coins, barrels or apes. Just tiny, embroidered, multi-colored ‘shrooms.
 
  • Laughing
Reactions: SWC
I rarely drink.....like rarely.

Social beers.....a social drink.

We don’t drink at home......ever.

Just never been my thing.

But I do really enjoy good ice cold beers with friends.....but as far as hard liquor......nope. Once in a blue moon.

If a doctor asked me what is my alcohol intake I would say maybe the equivalent of a 18 pack of beer in year.

Maybe a glass of wine 3-4 times a year.

No hard alcohol.
 
I live near a massive navy base that's a weapons lab. Not your typical enlisted guys type of base. Half of the employees are college educated in the sciences; the other half work in support of them. It's a highly secretive facility. Area 51-ish for the Navy. It's in weed friendly California. They are tested all the time. Someone's losing his job, losing her security clearance, or being suspended almost daily. I know the person who does the paperwork.

However, to the story of someone shrooming and changing her life. My daughter knows a guy who took DMT. He was a low-life petty criminal tweaker and a regular drinker where she works. He tripped balls. Full experience complete with communicating with entities from from another realm. I guess it's an intense but short hallucinatory ride. Like 15 minutes of pure mind altering, world leaving, crazy. It changed his life. Cleaned up his act. Stopped being a tweaker. Went to the local JC. Got MS certifications. Got a job on that base that tests people all the time. Fell in love there. Got married. She's having his baby. My kid tells another similar story about another one of her generation's local losers. There's plenty of similar anecdotes online. :shrug:

I'm not interested in tripping balls, but I'm way past judging anyone who is.
 
I live near a massive navy base that's a weapons lab. Not your typical enlisted guys type of base. Half of the employees are college educated in the sciences; the other half work in support of them. It's a highly secretive facility. Area 51-ish for the Navy. It's in weed friendly California. They are tested all the time. Someone's losing his job, losing her security clearance, or being suspended almost daily. I know the person who does the paperwork.
China Lake?
 
I live near a massive navy base that's a weapons lab. Not your typical enlisted guys type of base. Half of the employees are college educated in the sciences; the other half work in support of them. It's a highly secretive facility. Area 51-ish for the Navy. It's in weed friendly California. They are tested all the time. Someone's losing his job, losing her security clearance, or being suspended almost daily. I know the person who does the paperwork.
China Lake?

Yup. I was born in the dispensary there.
 
I live near a massive navy base that's a weapons lab. Not your typical enlisted guys type of base. Half of the employees are college educated in the sciences; the other half work in support of them. It's a highly secretive facility. Area 51-ish for the Navy. It's in weed friendly California. They are tested all the time. Someone's losing his job, losing her security clearance, or being suspended almost daily. I know the person who does the paperwork.

However, to the story of someone shrooming and changing her life. My daughter knows a guy who took DMT. He was a low-life petty criminal tweaker and a regular drinker where she works. He tripped balls. Full experience complete with communicating with entities from from another realm. I guess it's an intense but short hallucinatory ride. Like 15 minutes of pure mind altering, world leaving, crazy. It changed his life. Cleaned up his act. Stopped being a tweaker. Went to the local JC. Got MS certifications. Got a job on that base that tests people all the time. Fell in love there. Got married. She's having his baby. My kid tells another similar story about another one of her generation's local losers. There's plenty of similar anecdotes online. :shrug:

I'm not interested in tripping balls, but I'm way past judging anyone who is.
I’m mostly interested in the team uniform.

Seriously though, that’s like a million times more enticing to me than relaxation. Boooooring.
 
I live near a massive navy base that's a weapons lab. Not your typical enlisted guys type of base. Half of the employees are college educated in the sciences; the other half work in support of them. It's a highly secretive facility. Area 51-ish for the Navy. It's in weed friendly California. They are tested all the time. Someone's losing his job, losing her security clearance, or being suspended almost daily. I know the person who does the paperwork.

However, to the story of someone shrooming and changing her life. My daughter knows a guy who took DMT. He was a low-life petty criminal tweaker and a regular drinker where she works. He tripped balls. Full experience complete with communicating with entities from from another realm. I guess it's an intense but short hallucinatory ride. Like 15 minutes of pure mind altering, world leaving, crazy. It changed his life. Cleaned up his act. Stopped being a tweaker. Went to the local JC. Got MS certifications. Got a job on that base that tests people all the time. Fell in love there. Got married. She's having his baby. My kid tells another similar story about another one of her generation's local losers. There's plenty of similar anecdotes online. :shrug:

I'm not interested in tripping balls, but I'm way past judging anyone who is.
I’m mostly interested in the team uniform.

Seriously though, that’s like a million times more enticing to me than relaxation. Boooooring.
My only advice for taking shrooms is to be in the right frame of mind. Once the trip starts you can’t end it when you want, so go in with positive attitude and the experience will be awesome. And definitely go outside. I don’t know how to explain what happens but the word spiritual comes to mind, it feels like your brain opens up and you see things in a completely different light.
 
I'm 51 years old. I've enjoyed alcohol since maybe about 15 years old (grew up in Wisconsin). Never flirted with addiction, though there's alcoholism in my family. My father was a manhattan-every-night type of guy with a glass of wine, maybe two, at dinner. Rarely less, rarely more.

I enjoy my relationship with alcohol and treat it with respect. I have my moments, but those are rare.

The thing is, I feel like I'm losing my love for the taste. Like something is happening physiologically. No doubt during and post-COVID, my drinking went up, and so did my unhealthy eating. I'm trying to get back into shape, so I think some things will return. But maybe not? Not sure what's going on.

Could this be age? Or just overindulgence over time? I'm on a diet and that means little to no booze. I'm sure that one cheat day I have coming up will be interesting.

Maybe getting old sucks?
 
I live near a massive navy base that's a weapons lab. Not your typical enlisted guys type of base. Half of the employees are college educated in the sciences; the other half work in support of them. It's a highly secretive facility. Area 51-ish for the Navy. It's in weed friendly California. They are tested all the time. Someone's losing his job, losing her security clearance, or being suspended almost daily. I know the person who does the paperwork.

However, to the story of someone shrooming and changing her life. My daughter knows a guy who took DMT. He was a low-life petty criminal tweaker and a regular drinker where she works. He tripped balls. Full experience complete with communicating with entities from from another realm. I guess it's an intense but short hallucinatory ride. Like 15 minutes of pure mind altering, world leaving, crazy. It changed his life. Cleaned up his act. Stopped being a tweaker. Went to the local JC. Got MS certifications. Got a job on that base that tests people all the time. Fell in love there. Got married. She's having his baby. My kid tells another similar story about another one of her generation's local losers. There's plenty of similar anecdotes online. :shrug:

I'm not interested in tripping balls, but I'm way past judging anyone who is.
I’m mostly interested in the team uniform.

Seriously though, that’s like a million times more enticing to me than relaxation. Boooooring.
My only advice for taking shrooms is to be in the right frame of mind. Once the trip starts you can’t end it when you want, so go in with positive attitude and the experience will be awesome. And definitely go outside. I don’t know how to explain what happens but the word spiritual comes to mind, it feels like your brain opens up and you see things in a completely different light.
I’ve been told to do it in a low stimulus environment, at least the first time, with someone (sober) you trust nearby.
 
I'm 51 years old. I've enjoyed alcohol since maybe about 15 years old (grew up in Wisconsin). Never flirted with addiction, though there's alcoholism in my family. My father was a manhattan-every-night type of guy with a glass of wine, maybe two, at dinner. Rarely less, rarely more.

I enjoy my relationship with alcohol and treat it with respect. I have my moments, but those are rare.

The thing is, I feel like I'm losing my love for the taste. Like something is happening physiologically. No doubt during and post-COVID, my drinking went up, and so did my unhealthy eating. I'm trying to get back into shape, so I think some things will return. But maybe not? Not sure what's going on.

Could this be age? Or just overindulgence over time? I'm on a diet and that means little to no booze. I'm sure that one cheat day I have coming up will be interesting.

Maybe getting old sucks?
Or maybe alcohol isn’t that great after all? As we get older, peer pressure is less of a thing too.

Getting old ain’t a picnic either.
 
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I'm 51 years old. I've enjoyed alcohol since maybe about 15 years old (grew up in Wisconsin). Never flirted with addiction, though there's alcoholism in my family. My father was a manhattan-every-night type of guy with a glass of wine, maybe two, at dinner. Rarely less, rarely more.

I enjoy my relationship with alcohol and treat it with respect. I have my moments, but those are rare.

The thing is, I feel like I'm losing my love for the taste. Like something is happening physiologically. No doubt during and post-COVID, my drinking went up, and so did my unhealthy eating. I'm trying to get back into shape, so I think some things will return. But maybe not? Not sure what's going on.

Could this be age? Or just overindulgence over time? I'm on a diet and that means little to no booze. I'm sure that one cheat day I have coming up will be interesting.

Maybe getting old sucks?
Or maybe alcohol isn’t that great after all? As we get older, peer pressure is less of a thing too.

Getting old ain’t picnic either.
:ponder: Hazy IPAs, negronis, martinis, a cabernet with a steak, etc...that's heaven for me.
 
Could this be age? Or just overindulgence over time? I'm on a diet and that means little to no booze. I'm sure that one cheat day I have coming up will be interesting.

Maybe getting old sucks?

Your body, once it starts healing properly, might be reacting to toxins in a way you haven't felt before because your health is improving and any attempt to further your physical misery will be met with a newfound resistance.

That's how I've always found it. Once that train starts, you best be on it because it's left the station already.

Best of luck, by the way, on your diet—and here's to your health. You're old, dude. Get used to it.
 
I live near a massive navy base that's a weapons lab. Not your typical enlisted guys type of base. Half of the employees are college educated in the sciences; the other half work in support of them. It's a highly secretive facility. Area 51-ish for the Navy. It's in weed friendly California. They are tested all the time. Someone's losing his job, losing her security clearance, or being suspended almost daily. I know the person who does the paperwork.

However, to the story of someone shrooming and changing her life. My daughter knows a guy who took DMT. He was a low-life petty criminal tweaker and a regular drinker where she works. He tripped balls. Full experience complete with communicating with entities from from another realm. I guess it's an intense but short hallucinatory ride. Like 15 minutes of pure mind altering, world leaving, crazy. It changed his life. Cleaned up his act. Stopped being a tweaker. Went to the local JC. Got MS certifications. Got a job on that base that tests people all the time. Fell in love there. Got married. She's having his baby. My kid tells another similar story about another one of her generation's local losers. There's plenty of similar anecdotes online. :shrug:

I'm not interested in tripping balls, but I'm way past judging anyone who is.
I’m mostly interested in the team uniform.

Seriously though, that’s like a million times more enticing to me than relaxation. Boooooring.
My only advice for taking shrooms is to be in the right frame of mind. Once the trip starts you can’t end it when you want, so go in with positive attitude and the experience will be awesome. And definitely go outside. I don’t know how to explain what happens but the word spiritual comes to mind, it feels like your brain opens up and you see things in a completely different light.
I’ve been told to do it in a low stimulus environment, at least the first time, with someone (sober) you trust nearby.
Yes to all of the above (in your bolded post). Controlled environment on a nice day; have good eats handy; if you have a choice, it’d be more enriching if your “sober driver” has some experience with it since they’d hopefully have a grasp on what would transfix you in a good way; agree with prior posts suggesting you start with lower doses of whatever. I’d recommend a gummy first before going towards shrooms, etc..

You earlier asked for the difference between getting off on alcohol -and- other stuff. I wouldn’t even begin to know how to describe it but a 5mg gummy may be an “easier” step than going directly to shrooms, etc.? Maybe start off with watching animal planet & munching for a few hours for a first time — wouldn’t need a “sober driver” for that.
 
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Been drinking a lot less sort of since this thread started. I don't really miss it, but I don't feel like I sleep as well without it somehow. Most people have the opposite effect I guess.
 
I'm 51 years old. I've enjoyed alcohol since maybe about 15 years old (grew up in Wisconsin). Never flirted with addiction, though there's alcoholism in my family. My father was a manhattan-every-night type of guy with a glass of wine, maybe two, at dinner. Rarely less, rarely more.

I enjoy my relationship with alcohol and treat it with respect. I have my moments, but those are rare.

The thing is, I feel like I'm losing my love for the taste. Like something is happening physiologically. No doubt during and post-COVID, my drinking went up, and so did my unhealthy eating. I'm trying to get back into shape, so I think some things will return. But maybe not? Not sure what's going on.

Could this be age? Or just overindulgence over time? I'm on a diet and that means little to no booze. I'm sure that one cheat day I have coming up will be interesting.

Maybe getting old sucks?

Getting old ain’t a picnic either.
Beats the alternative
 
Been drinking a lot less sort of since this thread started. I don't really miss it, but I don't feel like I sleep as well without it somehow. Most people have the opposite effect I guess.
I sleep like garbage with it in my system and I hate being hungover. This is why I am strictly cut out alcohol but for on the golf course (swing juice!) and the occasional nice glass of wine with dinner or the even rarer glass of nice whisky with a friend or family member.
 
Anyone drink any of the hop waters out there? Lagunitas makes a good one. They are tasty and something that I will go to when I am wanting to have a drink, but know that I shouldn't.

However, I did find out that while a sparkling hop water is good, it is better with a shot of something in it. Damn
 
Anyone drink any of the hop waters out there? Lagunitas makes a good one. They are tasty and something that I will go to when I am wanting to have a drink, but know that I shouldn't.

However, I did find out that while a sparkling hop water is good, it is better with a shot of something in it. Damn
Isn't everything?
 
Anyone drink any of the hop waters out there? Lagunitas makes a good one. They are tasty and something that I will go to when I am wanting to have a drink, but know that I shouldn't.

However, I did find out that while a sparkling hop water is good, it is better with a shot of something in it. Damn
Surly makes a damn good hop water.
 
I was a binge drinker in high school and college. Looking back I probably drank a lot in high school to cope with the pain of my parents divorce and moving around at the time, but also because I enjoyed it. It made me more sociable and enjoyed spending time with other people who drank. I also think it was a different time where my perception was that more people drank at that age. Could be wrong.

My drinking got worse in college to the point where I actually passed out walking home from a party and woke up literally in the gutter. That was somewhat of a wake-up call, but continued to drink quite a bit after graduation and in my 20's-30's.

When I had kids in my mid 30's, I basically stopped drinking. Too much to do. Had no time to be hung over, etc. Today I hardly drink at all. I enjoy a glass of wine or a nice scotch once in a while with a good meal or friends. A beer or two at a concert or sporting event, but don't crave a beer outside of that. Some of that is health related; I have GERD and alcohol really ramps up the acid reflux. But a lot of it is that I feel I've done it and don't really miss it. The trade offs just aren't worth it to me and I also don't really enjoy the company of heavy drinkers, or going to bars anymore. Just isn't fun to me.

Same with smoking pot. Basically done with that too. That is definitely because of my health. Smoke is painful to me these days. I do really enjoy edibles and use them way more frequently than alcohol. Thankful for legalization. Still enjoy a buzz, but not the effects on my body that alcohol and smoke give me.
 
Used to be every day I'd have 2 or 3 beers, with more on the weekend. Have been slowly cutting back. Now limiting to Fri/Sat and weeknights involving a live sporting event or concert. Nights that I go to the gym are pretty easy, I'm so tired and don't really have an appetite for one. It's the other nights that at first were difficult but are getting easier. I don't say they were difficult like I have alcoholic cravings, but rather it just seemed so routine for so long.
Sundays are hard, especially if I'm grilling or making a big dinner. Will still have 1 or 2 but nothing after dinner.

This has become the new normal and I'm over the "habit" part of it. However, this week has been an anomaly. Partied Sunday night, had a few Monday night, and obviously enjoying a few watching the tourney tonight.
 
If a doctor asked me what is my alcohol intake I would say maybe the equivalent of a 18 pack of beer in year.
My doctor did ask me how much I drink. I told her she didn't have a category that low. She quirked an eyebrow, so I told her 3-5 drinks a year, maybe.

I think she just checked "doesn't drink".
 
@Terminalxylem - has there been any studies about when you drink over the duration of your life? Meaning, I drank very little in my 20’s and progressively more each decade. I’m anticipating being about the same or cutting back some in my 50’s (which starts in May). I’m just wondering if you drink the same amount over those years but the amount is more earlier or later on that it makes a difference. Just wondering if a younger system can handle it better or regenerate over time.
I'd add an additional layer to this based on a discussion I head with a doctor awhile back (over drinks, not coincidentally). He posited that it is very, very bad to consume two (2) drinks per day on a daily basis over time and will likely take literal years off one's life. He distinguished this behavior from one drink per day (he claimed that, for our liver/system, there is a massive difference between one drink and a second drink) and a binge drinking session say, once per week. Obviously never drinking is the most healthy option, but he claimed that the multiple per day even if to not get drunk was significantly worse longevity health-wise than binge drinking or the one per day (which my nearly 100 year old grandmother has done since her teens).

Do any studies back up the above?


All that said, the World Health Organization official statement on alcohol intake is as follows: “No level is safe.”
Just read something interesting about this.

Keep in mind the source of this. There's interest in "no level safe" being disproven. Doesn't make the statements about the people contributing to that policy wrong, though.



The Groups Advising the WHO
In 2018, the WHO launched the SAFER initiative5, a series of policy suggestions to reduce alcohol-related harms. As the WHO said openly at the time, SAFER had been created "in collaboration with international partners."

A couple of these partners were non-controversial. They included the U.N. and Vital Strategies6, a New York not-for-profit agency known for its effective anti-tobacco work.

But some of the other named partners included I.O.G.T. (later Movendi International) the Global Alcohol Policy Alliance, and the NCD [Non-Communicable Diseases] Alliance.
These are all anti-alcohol groups-and their names began popping up in WHO documents with regularity.
Take the WHO's "Reporting about alcohol: guide for journalists7," published in April 2023 (see sidebar). The advisers behind the guide include some communications professionals-but others are affiliated with Movendi International8, the Global Alcohol Policy Alliance9, the NCD Alliance10, and Eurocare11.

The most significant of these anti-alcohol groups is Movendi International, headquartered in Stockholm.

Temperance Groups Turned Policymakers
Movendi International describes itself as "the largest independent global movement for development through alcohol prevention."
Founded in upstate New York in 1851, it began as a temperance group that was heavily influenced by the Freemasons-complete with regalia and rituals. Originally called the Independent Order of Good Templars (I.O.G.T.), it spread rapidly across the U.S., Canada, and England. By 1900 there were groups in places as far-flung as Sri Lanka, Burma, Nigeria, and Panama. Everywhere the I.O.G.T. went, it inspired the founding of other temperance groups.

The efforts of such groups culminated, of course, during Prohibition, yet the unpopularity of Prohibition caused membership to fall, while the rise of Alcoholics Anonymous made such groups less relevant. After World War II, the I.O.G.T. turned to southeast Asia and sub-Saharan Africa.
It dispensed with the regalia in the 1970s and rebranded as Movendi International in 2020. Movendi is a portmanteau of 'modus vivendi,' meaning 'way of living;' it presents itself as a human rights, "heart-led" organization and says it is not against alcohol12. Instead, "...we advocate for every person's right to choose to live free from alcohol." Yet anyone who joins must agree13 that "I lead a lifestyle free from the use of alcohol and other drugs."

Movendi's worldview is simple: There are no artisans, small producers, or vignerons connected to land and history. There is only 'Big Alcohol,' which uses propaganda words like "moderation" and "craft" to conceal its true nature.
And Big Alcohol is an ally of Big Tobacco14—Movendi links alcohol to tobacco whenever it can.
But while Movendi and other groups are busy mischaracterizing the alcohol industry as one united group, they go out of their way to hide their own origins.

Take Movendi's Swedish branch, the IOGT-NTO15, which presents itself as an anti-poverty organization-solving poverty by solving alcohol. It was formed in 1970 after the Swedish branch of I.O.G.T. merged with a Christian temperance group.
Ironically, the Swedish branch is partly funded by a lottery16; in 2018 they were taken to court17 and threatened with a fine of 3 million kroner (about $260,000) if they didn't stop using deceptive practices. Specialists have long recognized that gambling is an addiction, making this a curious choice of funding for a temperance movement.

Really interesting stuff imo.

 
Currently job shopping and the stress has ramped up my drinking. Partly because a lot of places still say they drug test and I have cut out my low power edibles I was using for sleep.

I hope this is all over soon. At least I've been working out a ton also, to relieve the stress.
 
Used to be every day I'd have 2 or 3 beers, with more on the weekend. Have been slowly cutting back. Now limiting to Fri/Sat and weeknights involving a live sporting event or concert. Nights that I go to the gym are pretty easy, I'm so tired and don't really have an appetite for one. It's the other nights that at first were difficult but are getting easier. I don't say they were difficult like I have alcoholic cravings, but rather it just seemed so routine for so long.
Sundays are hard, especially if I'm grilling or making a big dinner. Will still have 1 or 2 but nothing after dinner.

This has become the new normal and I'm over the "habit" part of it. However, this week has been an anomaly. Partied Sunday night, had a few Monday night, and obviously enjoying a few watching the tourney tonight.
I just wanted to add that sports in general and especially the 17 Sundays during the NFL season are by far the WORST times for me.
I can pop a few beers watching an MLB game, NBA is more of a puff puff for me but the NFL seems to be a license to drink anything in my house

What I'm saying is in the off season of the NFL, much easier to push the alcohol away
SNF-MNF-TNF, there's 3 days/nights I'm drinking Sept-Dec, add in NCAA on Saturdays, it's too easy when football is on the TV

-I know we don't see eye to eye on a lot of things but this post hit home for me
Thanks!
 
@Terminalxylem - has there been any studies about when you drink over the duration of your life? Meaning, I drank very little in my 20’s and progressively more each decade. I’m anticipating being about the same or cutting back some in my 50’s (which starts in May). I’m just wondering if you drink the same amount over those years but the amount is more earlier or later on that it makes a difference. Just wondering if a younger system can handle it better or regenerate over time.
I'd add an additional layer to this based on a discussion I head with a doctor awhile back (over drinks, not coincidentally). He posited that it is very, very bad to consume two (2) drinks per day on a daily basis over time and will likely take literal years off one's life. He distinguished this behavior from one drink per day (he claimed that, for our liver/system, there is a massive difference between one drink and a second drink) and a binge drinking session say, once per week. Obviously never drinking is the most healthy option, but he claimed that the multiple per day even if to not get drunk was significantly worse longevity health-wise than binge drinking or the one per day (which my nearly 100 year old grandmother has done since her teens).

Do any studies back up the above?


All that said, the World Health Organization official statement on alcohol intake is as follows: “No level is safe.”
Just read something interesting about this.

Keep in mind the source of this. There's interest in "no level safe" being disproven. Doesn't make the statements about the people contributing to that policy wrong, though.



The Groups Advising the WHO
In 2018, the WHO launched the SAFER initiative5, a series of policy suggestions to reduce alcohol-related harms. As the WHO said openly at the time, SAFER had been created "in collaboration with international partners."

A couple of these partners were non-controversial. They included the U.N. and Vital Strategies6, a New York not-for-profit agency known for its effective anti-tobacco work.

But some of the other named partners included I.O.G.T. (later Movendi International) the Global Alcohol Policy Alliance, and the NCD [Non-Communicable Diseases] Alliance.
These are all anti-alcohol groups-and their names began popping up in WHO documents with regularity.
Take the WHO's "Reporting about alcohol: guide for journalists7," published in April 2023 (see sidebar). The advisers behind the guide include some communications professionals-but others are affiliated with Movendi International8, the Global Alcohol Policy Alliance9, the NCD Alliance10, and Eurocare11.

The most significant of these anti-alcohol groups is Movendi International, headquartered in Stockholm.

Temperance Groups Turned Policymakers
Movendi International describes itself as "the largest independent global movement for development through alcohol prevention."
Founded in upstate New York in 1851, it began as a temperance group that was heavily influenced by the Freemasons-complete with regalia and rituals. Originally called the Independent Order of Good Templars (I.O.G.T.), it spread rapidly across the U.S., Canada, and England. By 1900 there were groups in places as far-flung as Sri Lanka, Burma, Nigeria, and Panama. Everywhere the I.O.G.T. went, it inspired the founding of other temperance groups.

The efforts of such groups culminated, of course, during Prohibition, yet the unpopularity of Prohibition caused membership to fall, while the rise of Alcoholics Anonymous made such groups less relevant. After World War II, the I.O.G.T. turned to southeast Asia and sub-Saharan Africa.
It dispensed with the regalia in the 1970s and rebranded as Movendi International in 2020. Movendi is a portmanteau of 'modus vivendi,' meaning 'way of living;' it presents itself as a human rights, "heart-led" organization and says it is not against alcohol12. Instead, "...we advocate for every person's right to choose to live free from alcohol." Yet anyone who joins must agree13 that "I lead a lifestyle free from the use of alcohol and other drugs."

Movendi's worldview is simple: There are no artisans, small producers, or vignerons connected to land and history. There is only 'Big Alcohol,' which uses propaganda words like "moderation" and "craft" to conceal its true nature.
And Big Alcohol is an ally of Big Tobacco14—Movendi links alcohol to tobacco whenever it can.
But while Movendi and other groups are busy mischaracterizing the alcohol industry as one united group, they go out of their way to hide their own origins.

Take Movendi's Swedish branch, the IOGT-NTO15, which presents itself as an anti-poverty organization-solving poverty by solving alcohol. It was formed in 1970 after the Swedish branch of I.O.G.T. merged with a Christian temperance group.
Ironically, the Swedish branch is partly funded by a lottery16; in 2018 they were taken to court17 and threatened with a fine of 3 million kroner (about $260,000) if they didn't stop using deceptive practices. Specialists have long recognized that gambling is an addiction, making this a curious choice of funding for a temperance movement.

Really interesting stuff imo.

Yeah, there's definitely controversy regarding the science, and the WHO isn't beyond outside influence in formulating their policies - we saw that repeatedly during the pandemic.

As I posted earlier, the best I can tell, better studies (those that exclude "sick quitters") found modest mortality benefit in consuming 1/2 drink daily, versus teetotaling, or heavier alcohol consumption.
 
Last edited:
@Terminalxylem - has there been any studies about when you drink over the duration of your life? Meaning, I drank very little in my 20’s and progressively more each decade. I’m anticipating being about the same or cutting back some in my 50’s (which starts in May). I’m just wondering if you drink the same amount over those years but the amount is more earlier or later on that it makes a difference. Just wondering if a younger system can handle it better or regenerate over time.
I'd add an additional layer to this based on a discussion I head with a doctor awhile back (over drinks, not coincidentally). He posited that it is very, very bad to consume two (2) drinks per day on a daily basis over time and will likely take literal years off one's life. He distinguished this behavior from one drink per day (he claimed that, for our liver/system, there is a massive difference between one drink and a second drink) and a binge drinking session say, once per week. Obviously never drinking is the most healthy option, but he claimed that the multiple per day even if to not get drunk was significantly worse longevity health-wise than binge drinking or the one per day (which my nearly 100 year old grandmother has done since her teens).

Do any studies back up the above?


All that said, the World Health Organization official statement on alcohol intake is as follows: “No level is safe.”
Just read something interesting about this.

Keep in mind the source of this. There's interest in "no level safe" being disproven. Doesn't make the statements about the people contributing to that policy wrong, though.



The Groups Advising the WHO
In 2018, the WHO launched the SAFER initiative5, a series of policy suggestions to reduce alcohol-related harms. As the WHO said openly at the time, SAFER had been created "in collaboration with international partners."

A couple of these partners were non-controversial. They included the U.N. and Vital Strategies6, a New York not-for-profit agency known for its effective anti-tobacco work.

But some of the other named partners included I.O.G.T. (later Movendi International) the Global Alcohol Policy Alliance, and the NCD [Non-Communicable Diseases] Alliance.
These are all anti-alcohol groups-and their names began popping up in WHO documents with regularity.
Take the WHO's "Reporting about alcohol: guide for journalists7," published in April 2023 (see sidebar). The advisers behind the guide include some communications professionals-but others are affiliated with Movendi International8, the Global Alcohol Policy Alliance9, the NCD Alliance10, and Eurocare11.

The most significant of these anti-alcohol groups is Movendi International, headquartered in Stockholm.

Temperance Groups Turned Policymakers
Movendi International describes itself as "the largest independent global movement for development through alcohol prevention."
Founded in upstate New York in 1851, it began as a temperance group that was heavily influenced by the Freemasons-complete with regalia and rituals. Originally called the Independent Order of Good Templars (I.O.G.T.), it spread rapidly across the U.S., Canada, and England. By 1900 there were groups in places as far-flung as Sri Lanka, Burma, Nigeria, and Panama. Everywhere the I.O.G.T. went, it inspired the founding of other temperance groups.

The efforts of such groups culminated, of course, during Prohibition, yet the unpopularity of Prohibition caused membership to fall, while the rise of Alcoholics Anonymous made such groups less relevant. After World War II, the I.O.G.T. turned to southeast Asia and sub-Saharan Africa.
It dispensed with the regalia in the 1970s and rebranded as Movendi International in 2020. Movendi is a portmanteau of 'modus vivendi,' meaning 'way of living;' it presents itself as a human rights, "heart-led" organization and says it is not against alcohol12. Instead, "...we advocate for every person's right to choose to live free from alcohol." Yet anyone who joins must agree13 that "I lead a lifestyle free from the use of alcohol and other drugs."

Movendi's worldview is simple: There are no artisans, small producers, or vignerons connected to land and history. There is only 'Big Alcohol,' which uses propaganda words like "moderation" and "craft" to conceal its true nature.
And Big Alcohol is an ally of Big Tobacco14—Movendi links alcohol to tobacco whenever it can.
But while Movendi and other groups are busy mischaracterizing the alcohol industry as one united group, they go out of their way to hide their own origins.

Take Movendi's Swedish branch, the IOGT-NTO15, which presents itself as an anti-poverty organization-solving poverty by solving alcohol. It was formed in 1970 after the Swedish branch of I.O.G.T. merged with a Christian temperance group.
Ironically, the Swedish branch is partly funded by a lottery16; in 2018 they were taken to court17 and threatened with a fine of 3 million kroner (about $260,000) if they didn't stop using deceptive practices. Specialists have long recognized that gambling is an addiction, making this a curious choice of funding for a temperance movement.

Really interesting stuff imo.

Yeah, there's definitely controversy regarding the science, and the WHO isn't beyond outside influence in formulating their policies - we saw that repeatedly during the pandemic.

The best I can tell, better studies (those that exclude "sick quitters") have found modest mortality benefit in consuming 1/2 drink daily, versus teetotaling, or heavier alcohol consumption.
Right. It seems like they compared heavy drinkers to light drinkers, which made it seem like the curve went straight up and to the right. Which they used as ammo for "all drinking is bad." When you zoomed back out and included non-drinkers, the old J curve was still evident.
 
Never was much of a drinker. Last drink I had was a couple glasses bourbon at the end of the Bourbon Chase with the 10k boys (best thing ever from the FFA!).

Not too long after that I got to watch my father drink himself to death. Liquid alcohol diet at the end, weeks in the hospital with a terminal who-knows-what disease caused by the alcohol. Scar is deep and painful - I don't foresee myself ever partaking again.

Now THC I'd try, but I'm a federal contractor (not to mention in Alabama). Gotta wait until retirement for that one. These days I escape with trashy fantasy novels.
 
I might have a couple of beers once or twice a year. Sometimes I go years with none. Don't smoke either. Caffeine is my drug.
 
Used to be every day I'd have 2 or 3 beers, with more on the weekend. Have been slowly cutting back. Now limiting to Fri/Sat and weeknights involving a live sporting event or concert. Nights that I go to the gym are pretty easy, I'm so tired and don't really have an appetite for one. It's the other nights that at first were difficult but are getting easier. I don't say they were difficult like I have alcoholic cravings, but rather it just seemed so routine for so long.
Sundays are hard, especially if I'm grilling or making a big dinner. Will still have 1 or 2 but nothing after dinner.

This has become the new normal and I'm over the "habit" part of it. However, this week has been an anomaly. Partied Sunday night, had a few Monday night, and obviously enjoying a few watching the tourney tonight.
I just wanted to add that sports in general and especially the 17 Sundays during the NFL season are by far the WORST times for me.
I can pop a few beers watching an MLB game, NBA is more of a puff puff for me but the NFL seems to be a license to drink anything in my house

What I'm saying is in the off season of the NFL, much easier to push the alcohol away
SNF-MNF-TNF, there's 3 days/nights I'm drinking Sept-Dec, add in NCAA on Saturdays, it's too easy when football is on the TV

-I know we don't see eye to eye on a lot of things but this post hit home for me
Thanks!
This is big. Sports watching drives a lot of drinking for me. Now that sports aren't on there isnt that draw.
 
I will say just having this thread, I've had 0 or 1 drink at our team dinners and such since originally opening it. Do think it has led to better sleep those nights.
And as an example of how different people are, drinking has the opposite effect for me. When it's time to get relaxed and then get in bed and go to sleep, my mind ramps up and won't shut up, and throws endless imaginary problems at me that I can't solve. It's like some sort of test, and my mind's pushing me and won't let up when I need to sleep. Alcohol helps shut up my mind. I've also started using different kinds of cannabis --- to try to relax myself (and my mind) so I can get to sleep without drinking more. I absolutely have to relax and sleep. The first 6 weeks after my spinal fusion surgery I had to take an opioid for pain which got ridiculous at times, and the opioid would only allow me to sleep for 5 hours. That's it. And going through every day on 5 hours sleep grinds you down and down. It's taken a long time and a lot of attention paid, but I know now what alcohol/cannabis doses help me relax and sleep without feeling murdered in the morning. People are just different.
 
@Terminalxylem - has there been any studies about when you drink over the duration of your life? Meaning, I drank very little in my 20’s and progressively more each decade. I’m anticipating being about the same or cutting back some in my 50’s (which starts in May). I’m just wondering if you drink the same amount over those years but the amount is more earlier or later on that it makes a difference. Just wondering if a younger system can handle it better or regenerate over time.
I'd add an additional layer to this based on a discussion I head with a doctor awhile back (over drinks, not coincidentally). He posited that it is very, very bad to consume two (2) drinks per day on a daily basis over time and will likely take literal years off one's life. He distinguished this behavior from one drink per day (he claimed that, for our liver/system, there is a massive difference between one drink and a second drink) and a binge drinking session say, once per week. Obviously never drinking is the most healthy option, but he claimed that the multiple per day even if to not get drunk was significantly worse longevity health-wise than binge drinking or the one per day (which my nearly 100 year old grandmother has done since her teens).

Do any studies back up the above?


All that said, the World Health Organization official statement on alcohol intake is as follows: “No level is safe.”
Just read something interesting about this.

Keep in mind the source of this. There's interest in "no level safe" being disproven. Doesn't make the statements about the people contributing to that policy wrong, though.



The Groups Advising the WHO
In 2018, the WHO launched the SAFER initiative5, a series of policy suggestions to reduce alcohol-related harms. As the WHO said openly at the time, SAFER had been created "in collaboration with international partners."

A couple of these partners were non-controversial. They included the U.N. and Vital Strategies6, a New York not-for-profit agency known for its effective anti-tobacco work.

But some of the other named partners included I.O.G.T. (later Movendi International) the Global Alcohol Policy Alliance, and the NCD [Non-Communicable Diseases] Alliance.
These are all anti-alcohol groups-and their names began popping up in WHO documents with regularity.
Take the WHO's "Reporting about alcohol: guide for journalists7," published in April 2023 (see sidebar). The advisers behind the guide include some communications professionals-but others are affiliated with Movendi International8, the Global Alcohol Policy Alliance9, the NCD Alliance10, and Eurocare11.

The most significant of these anti-alcohol groups is Movendi International, headquartered in Stockholm.

Temperance Groups Turned Policymakers
Movendi International describes itself as "the largest independent global movement for development through alcohol prevention."
Founded in upstate New York in 1851, it began as a temperance group that was heavily influenced by the Freemasons-complete with regalia and rituals. Originally called the Independent Order of Good Templars (I.O.G.T.), it spread rapidly across the U.S., Canada, and England. By 1900 there were groups in places as far-flung as Sri Lanka, Burma, Nigeria, and Panama. Everywhere the I.O.G.T. went, it inspired the founding of other temperance groups.

The efforts of such groups culminated, of course, during Prohibition, yet the unpopularity of Prohibition caused membership to fall, while the rise of Alcoholics Anonymous made such groups less relevant. After World War II, the I.O.G.T. turned to southeast Asia and sub-Saharan Africa.
It dispensed with the regalia in the 1970s and rebranded as Movendi International in 2020. Movendi is a portmanteau of 'modus vivendi,' meaning 'way of living;' it presents itself as a human rights, "heart-led" organization and says it is not against alcohol12. Instead, "...we advocate for every person's right to choose to live free from alcohol." Yet anyone who joins must agree13 that "I lead a lifestyle free from the use of alcohol and other drugs."

Movendi's worldview is simple: There are no artisans, small producers, or vignerons connected to land and history. There is only 'Big Alcohol,' which uses propaganda words like "moderation" and "craft" to conceal its true nature.
And Big Alcohol is an ally of Big Tobacco14—Movendi links alcohol to tobacco whenever it can.
But while Movendi and other groups are busy mischaracterizing the alcohol industry as one united group, they go out of their way to hide their own origins.

Take Movendi's Swedish branch, the IOGT-NTO15, which presents itself as an anti-poverty organization-solving poverty by solving alcohol. It was formed in 1970 after the Swedish branch of I.O.G.T. merged with a Christian temperance group.
Ironically, the Swedish branch is partly funded by a lottery16; in 2018 they were taken to court17 and threatened with a fine of 3 million kroner (about $260,000) if they didn't stop using deceptive practices. Specialists have long recognized that gambling is an addiction, making this a curious choice of funding for a temperance movement.

Really interesting stuff imo.


Thank you. That's helpful and interesting.
 
Used to be every day I'd have 2 or 3 beers, with more on the weekend. Have been slowly cutting back. Now limiting to Fri/Sat and weeknights involving a live sporting event or concert. Nights that I go to the gym are pretty easy, I'm so tired and don't really have an appetite for one. It's the other nights that at first were difficult but are getting easier. I don't say they were difficult like I have alcoholic cravings, but rather it just seemed so routine for so long.
Sundays are hard, especially if I'm grilling or making a big dinner. Will still have 1 or 2 but nothing after dinner.

This has become the new normal and I'm over the "habit" part of it. However, this week has been an anomaly. Partied Sunday night, had a few Monday night, and obviously enjoying a few watching the tourney tonight.
I just wanted to add that sports in general and especially the 17 Sundays during the NFL season are by far the WORST times for me.
I can pop a few beers watching an MLB game, NBA is more of a puff puff for me but the NFL seems to be a license to drink anything in my house

What I'm saying is in the off season of the NFL, much easier to push the alcohol away
SNF-MNF-TNF, there's 3 days/nights I'm drinking Sept-Dec, add in NCAA on Saturdays, it's too easy when football is on the TV

-I know we don't see eye to eye on a lot of things but this post hit home for me
Thanks!
This is big. Sports watching drives a lot of drinking for me. Now that sports aren't on there isnt that draw.
Early on in my recovery, I wasn't able to watch sports simply for that reason. That may be overstating it, but sports was a huge trigger for me. Hell, my favorite baseball team is named after beer and their stadium was named after the beer I drank. I live in the "drunkest" state and people take pride in that. I know I did. Most people brush that kind of thing off, but for us alcoholics, it can be a big issue. But having 2-3 or 12 beers during a game was part of my routine. I'm lucky to now be able to compartmentalize the ads, the culture, the atmosphere, etc.

I may not state this enough but if anyone thinks they have a problem or just wants to ask questions about recovery, my DMs are wide open.
 
Used to be every day I'd have 2 or 3 beers, with more on the weekend. Have been slowly cutting back. Now limiting to Fri/Sat and weeknights involving a live sporting event or concert. Nights that I go to the gym are pretty easy, I'm so tired and don't really have an appetite for one. It's the other nights that at first were difficult but are getting easier. I don't say they were difficult like I have alcoholic cravings, but rather it just seemed so routine for so long.
Sundays are hard, especially if I'm grilling or making a big dinner. Will still have 1 or 2 but nothing after dinner.

This has become the new normal and I'm over the "habit" part of it. However, this week has been an anomaly. Partied Sunday night, had a few Monday night, and obviously enjoying a few watching the tourney tonight.
I just wanted to add that sports in general and especially the 17 Sundays during the NFL season are by far the WORST times for me.
I can pop a few beers watching an MLB game, NBA is more of a puff puff for me but the NFL seems to be a license to drink anything in my house

What I'm saying is in the off season of the NFL, much easier to push the alcohol away
SNF-MNF-TNF, there's 3 days/nights I'm drinking Sept-Dec, add in NCAA on Saturdays, it's too easy when football is on the TV

-I know we don't see eye to eye on a lot of things but this post hit home for me
Thanks!
This is big. Sports watching drives a lot of drinking for me. Now that sports aren't on there isnt that draw.
Early on in my recovery, I wasn't able to watch sports simply for that reason. That may be overstating it, but sports was a huge trigger for me. Hell, my favorite baseball team is named after beer and their stadium was named after the beer I drank. I live in the "drunkest" state and people take pride in that. I know I did. Most people brush that kind of thing off, but for us alcoholics, it can be a big issue. But having 2-3 or 12 beers during a game was part of my routine. I'm lucky to now be able to compartmentalize the ads, the culture, the atmosphere, etc.

I may not state this enough but if anyone thinks they have a problem or just wants to ask questions about recovery, my DMs are wide open.
Proud of you, gb. Keep it up.
 
I haven't had a drink since mid month Feb and while I haven't noticed a difference in sleep I have noticed a difference on the waist line and face. Getting my gallbladder out has changed me from having drinks on Thurs-Sat nights to none at all and the wallet seems to be benefiting the most. I was told to not drink for at least 6 months to let my organs get used to the new norm and I plan to stick to that and I really don't think I'll go back to drinking once I can.
 
I haven't had a drink since mid month Feb and while I haven't noticed a difference in sleep I have noticed a difference on the waist line and face. Getting my gallbladder out has changed me from having drinks on Thurs-Sat nights to none at all and the wallet seems to be benefiting the most. I was told to not drink for at least 6 months to let my organs get used to the new norm and I plan to stick to that and I really don't think I'll go back to drinking once I can.
Interesting. I had mine out over 10 years ago and don't remember that instruction. I will say I've adjusted pretty well. I also don't eat the junk I did when I was in college. Win/win.
 

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