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***official*** all things Microsoft Xbox One (1 Viewer)

culdeus said:
GroveDiesel said:
I guess I'm at somewhat of a loss as to what features people think need to be added so badly that MS or Sony need to release a new console? They both output at the highest HD standard. They both do 3D. They both have motion controls now. They both have lots of multimedia features (and could add more with software updates). So what feature(s) would be compelling enough for gamers to drop $500-700 on a new console?
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That's my feeling. There has not been anything in display technology to justify a console change out since either's launch. I'm not sure what big upgrade is there right now that you could package up and sell that anyone could point to. Maybe when 3D catches on it brings something, but not until then. 2015 to 2020 would be my guess.
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I guess if there were a major technological change in 3D technology that could happen. But the PS3 already supports the current 3D technology and is probably capable of software updates to support future formats. My buddy has a 3D tv and plays Black Ops in 3D. The only real innovation I can think of that would probably require new technology would be a system that allows users to play games from centralized servers. But, again, I'm not sure that even that would be a huge selling point. I think gaming technology has caught up with display technology enough that new consoles aren't needed as often. Until now, consoles ALWAYS needed more storage space and higher output resolution. But the current 1080p display format will probably be around for a while and both consoles support it. They both have hard drives which alleviates a lot of storage issues and the PS3's BluRay format means no real storage problems for a while. The biggest development in display technology is 3D and like I said, it seems both consoles already support this anyway.
 
GoFishTN said:
Frank Drebin said:
GoFishTN said:
The wild card will be someone else jumping in with a new console (no idea who). This has been consistent across the generations, I believe.
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Not the current generation.
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Right. I assume that's an anomaly. Someone will see dollar signs at some point and jump in.
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You should see all the failed consoles that have been released in the last decade. It doesn't look anything like the 70s-80's, but you'd be surprised at all the ones you've never heard of.I'll add a link: LINK

(This is a video slideshow showing almost every video game console that has ever been made, including early home computers. The video is long, but for nostalgic electronic geeks like myself, you may enjoy it. If you just want to see what's been produced since 2000, that starts at around the 20:30 mark. 90's starts at approx 15:45. The slideshow is accompanied with some great nostalgic music from your favorite video games from the past, and some present. Enjoy.)

[re-replied to add link. deleted old reply.]

 
Can these current systems do widespread destructible environments online? As mainly an online player....that would go a long way to enchancing gameplay.

 
The old "console cycle" that predicted a new generation of consoles every 5-6 years has run its course. We may not even see another round of consoles come out beyond the next ones -- they are now figuring out ways to remotely handle CPU and video processing and things like that -- DLC and delivery of full games via the internet is the new model. I think this means the hardware to deliver this stuff becomes less and less important as time goes on, and we'll see less and less of a focus on these machines.

ETA: bandwidth is the big thing holding this total transformation up IMO

 
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Courtjester said:
I am not a Sony fanboy, but IMO the PS3 is just hitting its stride, the XBOX is still holding based on solid games (but like others have pointed out--it needs a hardware upgrade)
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Yes/no.The advantage PS3 has on the 360 is the Blu Ray. Blu Ray disks can hold considerably more data then standard CDs.I keep seeing people suggest the PS3 has a hardware advantage. While that may (or may not) be true, they have a graphics card which is a generation behind the currently (outdated) graphics card inside the 360. The only advantaged a new system will bring is simply more processing power. The ability to have more things on the screen, no more pop ups/farther viewing distances, etc... Really isn't worth the massive investment these companies will have to risk in a down market. The differences will be hard for the average buyer to even notice. The Xbox is going to have to address the lack of storage space on their current games. I guess you could have larger games on multiple disks and install them on the hard drive, but not everybody has a big enough HDD to support this. I don't know the numbers, but I'm guess a significant % of 360 owners don't have the larger HDD. It's like movies being castrated to get a PG rating. Developers will have a hard time defending the risk of making a massive game that may not be 100% available to every console.
 
Thunderlips said:
Can these current systems do widespread destructible environments online? As mainly an online player....that would go a long way to enchancing gameplay.
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You mean like an MMO?Huge games like MMO's have many sections of their "world" controlled by different servers. Basically they are multiple versions of the same game broken into pieces and controlled separately.
 
snitwitch said:
The old "console cycle" that predicted a new generation of consoles every 5-6 years has run its course. We may not even see another round of consoles come out beyond the next ones -- they are now figuring out ways to remotely handle CPU and video processing and things like that -- DLC and delivery of full games via the internet is the new model. I think this means the hardware to deliver this stuff becomes less and less important as time goes on, and we'll see less and less of a focus on these machines.

ETA: bandwidth is the big thing holding this total transformation up IMO
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I agree. If not for bandwidth (and more high profile publishers signing on), we'd possibly be talking more about On Live right now. The FCC's proposed bandwidth cap will likely put a damper on this.
 
SlaX said:
snitwitch said:
The old "console cycle" that predicted a new generation of consoles every 5-6 years has run its course. We may not even see another round of consoles come out beyond the next ones -- they are now figuring out ways to remotely handle CPU and video processing and things like that -- DLC and delivery of full games via the internet is the new model. I think this means the hardware to deliver this stuff becomes less and less important as time goes on, and we'll see less and less of a focus on these machines.

ETA: bandwidth is the big thing holding this total transformation up IMO
Click to expand...
I agree. If not for bandwidth (and more high profile publishers signing on), we'd possibly be talking more about On Live right now. The FCC's proposed bandwidth cap will likely put a damper on this.
Click to expand...
What exactly is On Live? I heard it in reference a few times here, and checked the On Live wiki page, but I still have no idea what it is.
 
Time Kibitzer said:
SlaX said:
snitwitch said:
The old "console cycle" that predicted a new generation of consoles every 5-6 years has run its course. We may not even see another round of consoles come out beyond the next ones -- they are now figuring out ways to remotely handle CPU and video processing and things like that -- DLC and delivery of full games via the internet is the new model. I think this means the hardware to deliver this stuff becomes less and less important as time goes on, and we'll see less and less of a focus on these machines.

ETA: bandwidth is the big thing holding this total transformation up IMO
Click to expand...
I agree. If not for bandwidth (and more high profile publishers signing on), we'd possibly be talking more about On Live right now. The FCC's proposed bandwidth cap will likely put a damper on this.
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What exactly is On Live? I heard it in reference a few times here, and checked the On Live wiki page, but I still have no idea what it is.
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From what I understand, it's an internet-streaming-based video game console. Instead of buying the hard copy disks of the games, you get the licenses and play them via the internet. There have supposedly been major bandwidth issues - lag, etc. - and a lack of quality titles that have really kept it down. I'd imagine that you would need a very good internet capability to even get a playable experience.It's probably the future of gaming, as Slax indicated, but there are plenty of kinks to work out.

Others probably know more.

 
Time Kibitzer said:
SlaX said:
snitwitch said:
The old "console cycle" that predicted a new generation of consoles every 5-6 years has run its course. We may not even see another round of consoles come out beyond the next ones -- they are now figuring out ways to remotely handle CPU and video processing and things like that -- DLC and delivery of full games via the internet is the new model. I think this means the hardware to deliver this stuff becomes less and less important as time goes on, and we'll see less and less of a focus on these machines.

ETA: bandwidth is the big thing holding this total transformation up IMO
Click to expand...
I agree. If not for bandwidth (and more high profile publishers signing on), we'd possibly be talking more about On Live right now. The FCC's proposed bandwidth cap will likely put a damper on this.
Click to expand...
What exactly is On Live? I heard it in reference a few times here, and checked the On Live wiki page, but I still have no idea what it is.
Click to expand...
It's a gaming on demand service. You buy the "console" and connect it to your computer, tv or whatever you want to play it on, the games are stored on a server and you stream the game. Basically it's made so that even though you may have a low-end computer, you can still play Crysis via On Live. Since it uses cloud technology, you can even take it with you and games as you travel, since the games are streamed. It's a great idea, in theory. But in reality, you have to deal with bandwidth (I've heard reports that people who have used it with very high bandwidth still have lag) and you have to have publishers sign on to support your device, since the makers of On Live won't be making first-party games like Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft do.

I think it's a great technology we'll likely be moving to in the future, but we aren't ready for it now.

 
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SlaX said:
Time Kibitzer said:
SlaX said:
snitwitch said:
The old "console cycle" that predicted a new generation of consoles every 5-6 years has run its course. We may not even see another round of consoles come out beyond the next ones -- they are now figuring out ways to remotely handle CPU and video processing and things like that -- DLC and delivery of full games via the internet is the new model. I think this means the hardware to deliver this stuff becomes less and less important as time goes on, and we'll see less and less of a focus on these machines.

ETA: bandwidth is the big thing holding this total transformation up IMO
Click to expand...
I agree. If not for bandwidth (and more high profile publishers signing on), we'd possibly be talking more about On Live right now. The FCC's proposed bandwidth cap will likely put a damper on this.
Click to expand...
What exactly is On Live? I heard it in reference a few times here, and checked the On Live wiki page, but I still have no idea what it is.
Click to expand...
It's a gaming on demand service. You buy the "console" and connect it to your computer, tv or whatever you want to play it on, the games are stored on a server and you stream the game. Basically it's made so that even though you may have a low-end computer, you can still play Crysis via On Live. Since it uses cloud technology, you can even take it with you and games as you travel, since the games are streamed. It's a great idea, in theory. But in reality, you have to deal with bandwidth (I've heard reports that people who have used it with very high bandwidth still have lag) and you have to have publishers sign on to support your device, since the makers of On Live won't be making first-party games like Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft do.

I think it's a great technology we'll likely be moving to in the future, but we aren't ready for it now.
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A few questions: 1) so if you buy the console, you can stream any game that they have in their library? I assume there must be a monthly fee then correct? 2) do you have to hook it up to your PC or could you hook it up to a PS3/Xbox and play it on a TV? And does it only play PC games?

 
Steve Tasker said:
So you don't actually need the license to the individual games? It's more like Sega Channel? I didn't know that.
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Originally, On Live was a paid service and most games would be included or paid as included in the service, but since it's not working out in the subscription model, they have moved to buying games individually. So basically just like XBox Live, Steam or PSN, you'd buy license to the game, but with On Live, you don't have the game locally. The price for the games are based as 3 or 5 day rentals, or you can pay for a full license to play anytime. Prices seem to be cheaper than retail console games, for example, NBA 2k11 is right now 14.99 for full pass.
 
Time Kibitzer said:
SlaX said:
Time Kibitzer said:
SlaX said:
snitwitch said:
The old "console cycle" that predicted a new generation of consoles every 5-6 years has run its course. We may not even see another round of consoles come out beyond the next ones -- they are now figuring out ways to remotely handle CPU and video processing and things like that -- DLC and delivery of full games via the internet is the new model. I think this means the hardware to deliver this stuff becomes less and less important as time goes on, and we'll see less and less of a focus on these machines.

ETA: bandwidth is the big thing holding this total transformation up IMO
Click to expand...
I agree. If not for bandwidth (and more high profile publishers signing on), we'd possibly be talking more about On Live right now. The FCC's proposed bandwidth cap will likely put a damper on this.
Click to expand...
What exactly is On Live? I heard it in reference a few times here, and checked the On Live wiki page, but I still have no idea what it is.
Click to expand...
It's a gaming on demand service. You buy the "console" and connect it to your computer, tv or whatever you want to play it on, the games are stored on a server and you stream the game. Basically it's made so that even though you may have a low-end computer, you can still play Crysis via On Live. Since it uses cloud technology, you can even take it with you and games as you travel, since the games are streamed. It's a great idea, in theory. But in reality, you have to deal with bandwidth (I've heard reports that people who have used it with very high bandwidth still have lag) and you have to have publishers sign on to support your device, since the makers of On Live won't be making first-party games like Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft do.

I think it's a great technology we'll likely be moving to in the future, but we aren't ready for it now.
Click to expand...
A few questions: 1) so if you buy the console, you can stream any game that they have in their library? I assume there must be a monthly fee then correct? 2) do you have to hook it up to your PC or could you hook it up to a PS3/Xbox and play it on a TV? And does it only play PC games?
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Some of this is answered above.All PC games aren't included. You can see the games that On Live offers here.

And before you ask, I believe On Live costs $99.

Notice: I've never personally tried the service, so I cannot speak personally about performance or service. However, I do have a couple of friends who were involved in the beta and still have it, and we have talked about it on occasion. I can only relay what their experiences were.

 
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SlaX said:
Some of this is answered above.

All PC games aren't included. You can see the games that On Live offers here.

And before you ask, I believe On Live costs $99.

Notice: I've never personally tried the service, so I cannot speak personally about performance or service. However, I do have a couple of friends who were involved in the beta and still have it, and we have talked about it on occasion. I can only relay what their experiences were.
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cool, thanks for the info :thumbup:
 
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STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Thunderlips said:
Can these current systems do widespread destructible environments online? As mainly an online player....that would go a long way to enchancing gameplay.
Click to expand...
You mean like an MMO?Huge games like MMO's have many sections of their "world" controlled by different servers. Basically they are multiple versions of the same game broken into pieces and controlled separately.
Click to expand...
I mean more like Call of Duty and console stuff.
 
Steve Tasker said:
I thought it was widely believed that the 360 and PS3 were to have 10-year life cycles....a fact that's been rehashed over and over by execs at both companies. Is this wrong? Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding the meaning of life cycle in this case?
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A 10 year life cycle doesn't mean the time between new systems, but how long they can keep selling the old one. For example, MS could release a new system in 2012 but expect the 360 to still sell until 2015 - not unreasonable IMO. For a lot of people the 360 is good enough and won't feel a need to upgrade, especially if the price keeps dropping every year like Sony did with the PS2. Sony dropped the PS2 to $100 in 2009 and I'd expect a 360 to be available eventually at that price and that will keep the system selling.
 
culdeus said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Sea Ropes said:
U.S. broadband getting smoked by S. Korea.

I don't even know what 1 Gbps would look like. :confused:
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This is a good example of publicly-sponsored investment that I would support. One day we'll look back on this as being like rural electrification.
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The country is just too big to make something like that feasible.
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Nope. If we can provide electricity and telephone lines to the entire country, there's no reason why you can't do super-high-speed broadband.
 
Can't imagine a lot of companies excited to jump into something that will be guaranteed to lose them money for a few years with no telling what the future holds beyond that with the state of the economy.
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While gaming is a relatively small source of profit to MS, I think it's a very important strategic product. They have tried multiple times to get a "set top box" into homes but the technology wasn't quite ready. I think the next gen system will be the device that becomes the multimedia/internet hub they've wanted for a long time and will give everyone a HTPC.
 
IvanKaramazov said:
culdeus said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Sea Ropes said:
U.S. broadband getting smoked by S. Korea.

I don't even know what 1 Gbps would look like. :goodposting:
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This is a good example of publicly-sponsored investment that I would support. One day we'll look back on this as being like rural electrification.
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The country is just too big to make something like that feasible.
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Nope. If we can provide electricity and telephone lines to the entire country, there's no reason why you can't do super-high-speed broadband.
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We *could* do it but fiber optic cable is a lot more expensive to run. Also, wasn't there a huge uproar from Republicans because the stimulus bill included money to wire rural homes at a ridiculous cost?
 
snitwitch said:
The old "console cycle" that predicted a new generation of consoles every 5-6 years has run its course. We may not even see another round of consoles come out beyond the next ones -- they are now figuring out ways to remotely handle CPU and video processing and things like that -- DLC and delivery of full games via the internet is the new model. I think this means the hardware to deliver this stuff becomes less and less important as time goes on, and we'll see less and less of a focus on these machines.ETA: bandwidth is the big thing holding this total transformation up IMO
Click to expand...
I bet people said the same things when every new gen system was released. DLC is a delivery method, not a graphics/processing technology, and what people want is mind-blowing graphics and gameplay. The demand for new systems won't end and you'll see that when the next one is comes out.
 
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cstu said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Nope. If we can provide electricity and telephone lines to the entire country, there's no reason why you can't do super-high-speed broadband.
Click to expand...
We *could* do it but fiber optic cable is a lot more expensive to run. Also, wasn't there a huge uproar from Republicans because the stimulus bill included money to wire rural homes at a ridiculous cost?
Click to expand...
Well, I live in semi-rural SD, and they're laying fiber optic toward my house as we speak. I don't know the precise cost, but like I said this is the kind of thing that's on par with rural electrification or even the interstate highway system in terms of social/economic significance. I'd much rather see various levels of government spend money on this stuff than on crap like ethanol subsidies.
 
cstu said:
It doesn't look good for the PS3:

YTD totals:

360 4.9M

Wii 4.66M

PS3 3.12M

LTD totals:

Wii 31.77M

360 23.53M

PS3 14.25M

A few interesting factoids:

Pachter also noted that one third of PS3 sales were $400 PlayStation Move bundles, versus one half of all Xbox 360 purchases being Kinect bundles. (There are two Kinect bundles, a $300 4GB model and $400 250GB model.) "Xbox 360 Kinect console bundles outsold PS3 Move console bundles by more than 5 to 1," said the analyst.

Source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6285151.html

Major Nelson:

Quote:

# November marks the sixth consecutive month Xbox 360 leads video game consoles in sales, with 1.37 million units sold. (Source: NPD Group, November 2010)

# Xbox 360 is the only console to show double digit year-to-date growth at 42%, making it the fastest-growing console in 2010. (Source: NPD Group, November 2010)

# 50% of spending at retail this November (for current generation consoles) was on the Xbox 360 platform. (Source: NPD Group, November 2010)

NPD's Anita Frazier

"The Xbox 360 was the best-selling console hardware system for the month, realizing an incredible 68% increase over last November."

Accessories

"The Xbox 360 Kinect was the best-selling accessory item in NovemberWith one month of sales, it's the top-selling accessory item in terms of dollar sales on a year-to-date basis."

"The Xbox 360 platform contributed five of the top ten accessory items for the month."
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Something does not look right with these numbers but I could be way off. These look like US sales figures, not world wide sales figures. I think the PS3 makes up some ground when factoring in the world wide sales figures, especially Asia where Sony tends to dominate.

 
cstu said:
Steve Tasker said:
I thought it was widely believed that the 360 and PS3 were to have 10-year life cycles....a fact that's been rehashed over and over by execs at both companies. Is this wrong? Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding the meaning of life cycle in this case?
Click to expand...
A 10 year life cycle doesn't mean the time between new systems, but how long they can keep selling the old one. For example, MS could release a new system in 2012 but expect the 360 to still sell until 2015 - not unreasonable IMO. For a lot of people the 360 is good enough and won't feel a need to upgrade, especially if the price keeps dropping every year like Sony did with the PS2. Sony dropped the PS2 to $100 in 2009 and I'd expect a 360 to be available eventually at that price and that will keep the system selling.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, that's not really how Microsoft operates. Once they push out a new product, they really pull back support for the old product. They've always been this way in the software, OS market, and seemed to do the same when XBox 360 released. Sony, on the other hand, you have nothing to worry about.
cstu said:
snitwitch said:
The old "console cycle" that predicted a new generation of consoles every 5-6 years has run its course. We may not even see another round of consoles come out beyond the next ones -- they are now figuring out ways to remotely handle CPU and video processing and things like that -- DLC and delivery of full games via the internet is the new model. I think this means the hardware to deliver this stuff becomes less and less important as time goes on, and we'll see less and less of a focus on these machines.ETA: bandwidth is the big thing holding this total transformation up IMO
Click to expand...
I bet people said the same things when every new gen system was released. DLC is a delivery method, not a graphics/processing technology, and what people want is mind-blowing graphics and gameplay. The demand for new systems won't end and you'll see that when the next one is comes out.
Click to expand...
This is true, but the graphics bar is still set at Crysis, which was released in 2007. There hasn't been a lot of progress in graphics and technology. Or at least, software that can keep up with the technology.
 
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This is true, but the graphics bar is still set at Crysis, which was released in 2007. There hasn't been a lot of progress in graphics and technology.
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I don't think it fair to use Crysis as the comparison since it was released to be able to improve with technology. Crysis when it was released wasn't playable at the highest settings like it is today and the low settings don't even compare. Quad core CPU's had just been released and were ridiculously priced and top of the line video card was probably a Geforce 8800. A next gen system that is able to run highest setting Crysis graphics at 1080p would be able to support some amazing games and blow the 360/PS3 out of the water.
 
Doubt it would be called 720 anyway. Microsoft has the tendency to do things in non sequential order. Look at Windows: 3.0, 3.1, 95, 98, Me, 2000, NT, XP, Vista, 7. Expect the next Xbox to be called Xenu or something crazy.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
cstu said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Nope. If we can provide electricity and telephone lines to the entire country, there's no reason why you can't do super-high-speed broadband.
Click to expand...
We *could* do it but fiber optic cable is a lot more expensive to run. Also, wasn't there a huge uproar from Republicans because the stimulus bill included money to wire rural homes at a ridiculous cost?
Click to expand...
Well, I live in semi-rural SD, and they're laying fiber optic toward my house as we speak. I don't know the precise cost, but like I said this is the kind of thing that's on par with rural electrification or even the interstate highway system in terms of social/economic significance. I'd much rather see various levels of government spend money on this stuff than on crap like ethanol subsidies.
Click to expand...
Do we really need the government propping up more things that can't sustain themselves? In 30 years, this fiber isn't going to seem all that efficient and then they'll have to pay a bunch of money to rerun something else that can't sustain itself. If you can cram 50 million people into 100,000 square kilometers, these sorts of things become a lot more efficient.
 
cstu said:
snitwitch said:
The old "console cycle" that predicted a new generation of consoles every 5-6 years has run its course. We may not even see another round of consoles come out beyond the next ones -- they are now figuring out ways to remotely handle CPU and video processing and things like that -- DLC and delivery of full games via the internet is the new model. I think this means the hardware to deliver this stuff becomes less and less important as time goes on, and we'll see less and less of a focus on these machines.ETA: bandwidth is the big thing holding this total transformation up IMO
Click to expand...
I bet people said the same things when every new gen system was released. DLC is a delivery method, not a graphics/processing technology, and what people want is mind-blowing graphics and gameplay. The demand for new systems won't end and you'll see that when the next one is comes out.
Click to expand...
Yeah - the move towards thin clients has been talked about in many arenas for quite some time, and at some point it'll happen. But even 1 Gbps speeds probably aren't going to satisfy people looking for mind-blowing graphics and gameplay. It'd solve the problem of Netflix sucking in quality compared to Blu-Ray though.
 
cstu said:
A next gen system that is able to run highest setting Crysis graphics at 1080p would be able to support some amazing games and blow the 360/PS3 out of the water.
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just curious, what would it cost today to buy a pc capable of running Crysis on highest settings at 1080p?
 
SlaX said:
cstu said:
Steve Tasker said:
I thought it was widely believed that the 360 and PS3 were to have 10-year life cycles....a fact that's been rehashed over and over by execs at both companies. Is this wrong? Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding the meaning of life cycle in this case?
Click to expand...
A 10 year life cycle doesn't mean the time between new systems, but how long they can keep selling the old one. For example, MS could release a new system in 2012 but expect the 360 to still sell until 2015 - not unreasonable IMO. For a lot of people the 360 is good enough and won't feel a need to upgrade, especially if the price keeps dropping every year like Sony did with the PS2. Sony dropped the PS2 to $100 in 2009 and I'd expect a 360 to be available eventually at that price and that will keep the system selling.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, that's not really how Microsoft operates. Once they push out a new product, they really pull back support for the old product. They've always been this way in the software, OS market, and seemed to do the same when XBox 360 released. Sony, on the other hand, you have nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...
Microsoft supported the original xbox until 2009 and live until 2010.
 
DrJ said:
IvanKaramazov said:
cstu said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Nope. If we can provide electricity and telephone lines to the entire country, there's no reason why you can't do super-high-speed broadband.
Click to expand...
We *could* do it but fiber optic cable is a lot more expensive to run. Also, wasn't there a huge uproar from Republicans because the stimulus bill included money to wire rural homes at a ridiculous cost?
Click to expand...
Well, I live in semi-rural SD, and they're laying fiber optic toward my house as we speak. I don't know the precise cost, but like I said this is the kind of thing that's on par with rural electrification or even the interstate highway system in terms of social/economic significance. I'd much rather see various levels of government spend money on this stuff than on crap like ethanol subsidies.
Click to expand...
Do we really need the government propping up more things that can't sustain themselves?
Click to expand...
In the case of something like this, yeah. High speed broadband is kind of like electricity, interstates, and television were, in the sense that its widespread availability could be transformative for our society. This isn't a boondoggle like bullet trains or ethanol.
 
IvanKaramazov said:
DrJ said:
IvanKaramazov said:
cstu said:
IvanKaramazov said:
Nope. If we can provide electricity and telephone lines to the entire country, there's no reason why you can't do super-high-speed broadband.
Click to expand...
We *could* do it but fiber optic cable is a lot more expensive to run. Also, wasn't there a huge uproar from Republicans because the stimulus bill included money to wire rural homes at a ridiculous cost?
Click to expand...
Well, I live in semi-rural SD, and they're laying fiber optic toward my house as we speak. I don't know the precise cost, but like I said this is the kind of thing that's on par with rural electrification or even the interstate highway system in terms of social/economic significance. I'd much rather see various levels of government spend money on this stuff than on crap like ethanol subsidies.
Click to expand...
Do we really need the government propping up more things that can't sustain themselves?
Click to expand...
In the case of something like this, yeah. High speed broadband is kind of like electricity, interstates, and television were, in the sense that its widespread availability could be transformative for our society. This isn't a boondoggle like bullet trains or ethanol.
Click to expand...
There are lots of interests out there that have no desire to see this happen.
 
Fennis said:
SlaX said:
cstu said:
Steve Tasker said:
I thought it was widely believed that the 360 and PS3 were to have 10-year life cycles....a fact that's been rehashed over and over by execs at both companies. Is this wrong? Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding the meaning of life cycle in this case?
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A 10 year life cycle doesn't mean the time between new systems, but how long they can keep selling the old one. For example, MS could release a new system in 2012 but expect the 360 to still sell until 2015 - not unreasonable IMO. For a lot of people the 360 is good enough and won't feel a need to upgrade, especially if the price keeps dropping every year like Sony did with the PS2. Sony dropped the PS2 to $100 in 2009 and I'd expect a 360 to be available eventually at that price and that will keep the system selling.
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Unfortunately, that's not really how Microsoft operates. Once they push out a new product, they really pull back support for the old product. They've always been this way in the software, OS market, and seemed to do the same when XBox 360 released. Sony, on the other hand, you have nothing to worry about.
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Microsoft supported the original xbox until 2009 and live until 2010.
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That's just not true. They dropped support of the original XBox in 2007 and stopped production in 2006. Last original XBox game released was Madden '09 on August '08 (more info below in spoilers). Microsoft also dropped support of the original XBox backwards compatibility project on the XBox 360 in November 2007. You are correct on XBox Live, though. They didn't stop original XBox Live support until last April. This is the list of games released after the launch of the XBox 360. You'll find no first-party releases by Microsoft. In fact, the last Microsoft release was Forza Motorsport on May 3, 2005, a full 6 months prior to the release of the XBox 360. (Microsoft's release prior to Forza was Phantom Dust on March 15, 2005). In the list below, you'll likely be able to count the number of good games on one hand, however, I'll let you decide, if you choose.

Code: 
Original XBox games released after the release of XBox 360XBox 360 US Release: November 22, 2005AND 1 Streetball 			Ubisoft 	June 6, 2006 Arena Football 				EA Games 	February 7, 2006 Army Men: Major Malfunction 		3DO 		April 15, 2006 Avatar: The Last Airbender 		THQ 		October 10, 2006 Bass Pro Shops: Trophy Bass 2007 	Vivendi 	November 17, 2006 Bass Pro Shops: Trophy Hunter 2007 	Vivendi 	November 20, 2006 Big Bumpin' 				King Games 	November 19, 2006 Black 					EA Games 	February 28, 2006 Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII 	Ubisoft 	March 23, 2006 Capcom Classics Collection Vol. 2 	Capcom 		November 14, 2006 Cars 					THQ 		June 5, 2006 College Hoops 				2K7 Sports 	November 20, 2006 Commandos: Strike Force 		Eidos Interact 	April 4, 2006 Crusty Demons 				SouthPeak Games June 27, 2006 Curious George 				Namco 		February 1, 2006 The Da Vinci Code 			2K Games 	May 19, 2006 Dance Dance Revolution Ultramix 4 	Konami 		November 14, 2006 Destroy All Humans! 2 			THQ 		October 17, 2006 Dreamfall: The Longest Journey 		Aspyr Media 	April 18, 2006 Drive to Survive			Codemasters 	December 13, 2006Driver: Parallel Lines 			Atari 		March 14, 2006   Eragon 					Vivendi Games 	November 14, 2006 Family Guy Video Game! 			2K Games, Fox 	October 16, 2006 FIFA 07 Soccer 				EA Games 	October 3, 2006 FIFA Street 2 				EA Games 	February 28, 2006FIFA World Cup: Germany 2006 		EA Games 	April 24, 2006  Fight Night: Round 3 			EA Sports 	February 23, 2006 Final Fight: Streetwise 		Capcom 		February 28, 2006 FlatOut 2 				Vivendi 	August 1, 2006 Ford Bold Moves Street Racing 		Eidos Interact 	September 25, 2006 Full Spectrum Warrior: Ten Hammers 	THQ 		March 28, 2006 The Godfather: The Game 		EA Games 	March 21, 2006 Hummer Badlands 			2K Games 	April 14, 2006 The Hustle: Detroit Streets 		Activision 	April 26, 2006 Ice Age 2: The Meltdown 		Vivendi Games 	March 14, 2006 IHRA Drag Racing: Sportsman Edition 	Bethesda 	June 28, 2006 Jaws Unleashed 				Majesco Games 	May 23, 2006 Just Cause 				Eidos Interact	September 27, 2006 Justice League Heroes 			Eidos Interact 	October 17, 2006 The King of Fighters 			SNK Playmore 	April 18, 2006 The Legend of Spyro: A New Beginning 	Sierra 		October 10, 2006 Lego Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy LucasArts 	September 11, 2006 Madden NFL 07 				EA Sports 	August 22, 2006 Madden NFL 08 				EA Sports 	August 14, 2007 Madden NFL 09				EA Sports 	August 12, 2008 Major League Baseball 2K6 		2K Games 	April 3, 2006 Marc Ecko's Getting Up: Contents Under 	Atari 		February 14, 2006 Marvel: Ultimate Alliance 		Activision 	October 24, 2006 Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition Remix 	Rockstar Games 	March 13, 2006 *(rerelease)MVP 06: NCAA Baseball 			EA Sports 	January 18, 2006 NASCAR 07 				EA Sports 	September 6, 2006 NBA 2K7 				2K Sports 	September 25, 2006 NBA Ballers: Phenom 			Midway Games 	March 29, 2006 NBA Live 07 				EA Sports 	September 25, 2006 NCAA Football 07 			EA Sports 	July 18, 2006 NCAA Football 08 			EA Sports 	July 17, 2007 Need for Speed: Carbon 			EA Games 	October 31, 2006 NHL 07 					EA Sports 	September 12, 2006 NHL 2K7 				2K Sports 	September 12, 2006Open Season 				Ubisoft 	September 19, 2006 OutRun 2006: Coast 2 			Sega 		March 17, 2006  Painkiller: Hell Wars 			DreamCatcher 	July 24, 2006 Pirates: Legend of the Black Buccaneer 	10tacle Studios August 15, 2006 ProStroke Golf: World Tour 2007 	Oxygen Interact	September 12, 2006 Real World Golf 			Mad Katz 	April 11, 2006 Reservoir Dogs 				Eidos Interact 	October 24, 2006 Rogue Trooper 				Eidos Interact 	May 23, 2006Rugby 06 				EA Sports 	February 14, 2006 Samurai Shodown V 			SNK Playmore 	January 18, 2006  Sneak King				King Games 	November 19, 2006Sonic Riders				Sega		February 21, 2006Stacked with Daniel Negreanu		Myelin Media	May 30, 2006Superman Returns			EA Games	February 20, 2006Teen Titans				THQ		May 24, 2006Thrillville				LucasArts	November 21, 2006Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07			EA Sports	October 10, 2006TOCA Race Driver 3			Codemasters	February 22, 2006Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter	Ubisoft	March 7, 2006Tom Clancy's Rainbox Six: Critical Hour		Ubisoft	March 14, 2006Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent	Ubisoft	March 31, 2006Tomb Raider: Legend			Eidos Interact	April 11, 2006Tony Hawk's Project 8			Activision	November 7, 2006Torino 2006: XX Olympic Winter Games	2K Games	January 24, 2006Urban Chaos: Riot Response 		Eidos Interact 	June 13, 2006 Warpath 				Groove Games 	July 24, 2006 WinBack 2: Project Poseidon 		Koei 		April 25, 2006 World Racing 2 				Evolved Games 	August 16, 2006 World Soccer Winning Eleven 9		Konami 		February 7, 2006 World War II Combat: Iwo Jima 		Groove Games 	July 21, 2006 World War II Combat: Road to Berlin 	Groove Games 	January 24, 2006 X-Men: The Official Game 		Activision 	May 16, 2006 Xiaolin Showdown 			Konami 		November 14, 2006 Xyanide 				Playlogic 	August 15, 2006
*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();Compare this list to the list of games released for the Playstation 1 or 2 after their predecessors were launched. For grins, compare this list to the list of games released for the NES after the SNES launched. If this is the type of "support" you expect from Microsoft of the 360 when they actually launch their new console (whenever that may be), then I think we have a huge difference in the meaning of the word "support".
 
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Thunderlips said:
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Thunderlips said:
Can these current systems do widespread destructible environments online? As mainly an online player....that would go a long way to enchancing gameplay.
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You mean like an MMO?Huge games like MMO's have many sections of their "world" controlled by different servers. Basically they are multiple versions of the same game broken into pieces and controlled separately.
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I mean more like Call of Duty and console stuff.
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Battlefield BC2 has destructible environments. You can take out trees, walls, windows, houses, shrubs, crates, etc. There are a few stone and metal buildings that you can't destroy, but that seems more out of design than hardware limitation. Now, you don't see tank tracks in the dirt or mortar impacts on the ground, so there's still some room for improvements there, but I believe consoles are pretty much on par with computers when it comes to this.
 
crush304 said:
cstu said:
A next gen system that is able to run highest setting Crysis graphics at 1080p would be able to support some amazing games and blow the 360/PS3 out of the water.
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just curious, what would it cost today to buy a pc capable of running Crysis on highest settings at 1080p?
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Just the tower part? maybe around 600. Could be less though, prices have changed so much even since I built my system last year.
 
Dr. Awesome said:
How long before Google jumps into this market?
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They have been reported to be looking into it. It sounds like it's more of the casual gaming market rather than consoles, but I would be surprised if we don't hear something from them by the end of 2011.
 
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cstu said:
snitwitch said:
The old "console cycle" that predicted a new generation of consoles every 5-6 years has run its course. We may not even see another round of consoles come out beyond the next ones -- they are now figuring out ways to remotely handle CPU and video processing and things like that -- DLC and delivery of full games via the internet is the new model. I think this means the hardware to deliver this stuff becomes less and less important as time goes on, and we'll see less and less of a focus on these machines.ETA: bandwidth is the big thing holding this total transformation up IMO
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I bet people said the same things when every new gen system was released. DLC is a delivery method, not a graphics/processing technology, and what people want is mind-blowing graphics and gameplay. The demand for new systems won't end and you'll see that when the next one is comes out.
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I'm willing to believe there will be one more round of big time consoles released before the "console" doesn't appear on its face to be the "console" we've known for 30 years (i.e. insert catridge/disc into brand-specific box). DLC is a delivery system, but it supplants the old delivery system of insert-game-into-box. And as I stated, they're in the process of figuring out graphics/processing "in the cloud" so to speak.
 
DrJ said:
cstu said:
snitwitch said:
The old "console cycle" that predicted a new generation of consoles every 5-6 years has run its course. We may not even see another round of consoles come out beyond the next ones -- they are now figuring out ways to remotely handle CPU and video processing and things like that -- DLC and delivery of full games via the internet is the new model. I think this means the hardware to deliver this stuff becomes less and less important as time goes on, and we'll see less and less of a focus on these machines.

ETA: bandwidth is the big thing holding this total transformation up IMO
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I bet people said the same things when every new gen system was released. DLC is a delivery method, not a graphics/processing technology, and what people want is mind-blowing graphics and gameplay. The demand for new systems won't end and you'll see that when the next one is comes out.
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Yeah - the move towards thin clients has been talked about in many arenas for quite some time, and at some point it'll happen. But even 1 Gbps speeds probably aren't going to satisfy people looking for mind-blowing graphics and gameplay. It'd solve the problem of Netflix sucking in quality compared to Blu-Ray though.
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Graphics maybe, but gameplay? Have you not been following what's happened to the video game industry over the past few years? If anything, huge AAA releases that cost tens of millions to produce (and are laden with bell-and-whistle effects) are becoming rarer and rarer, supplanted by more casual games that often have better "gameplay"
 
Xbox 720 'likely' at E3 2012, Crytek on board

NewsPosted 14/06/2011 - 5:38pm GMT+1

TimeSplitters 4 in development for next Xbox and PlayStation.

crytek -

Microsoft is gearing up to announce the successor to the Xbox 360 at E3 2012, and Crytek is already developing a new TimeSplitters game for the next generation of consoles, VideoGamer.com can reveal.

Specifications for the new machine have not been finalised, but Crytek is using Microsoft's DirectX 11 as the current basis for next-generation development. Tessellation, multithreaded rendering, and compute shaders are the three headlining features for DirectX 11.

The Crysis 2 developer says that Microsoft will announce the existence of a new Xbox within the next 12 months, hinting that an E3 2012 reveal is likely. Crytek believes that Microsoft will announce and launch its new machine ahead of rival Sony, though the developer is also investing resources into next-generation PlayStation development.

The information was detailed to VideoGamer.com by a high-ranking industry source at Crytek, who stated that TimeSplitters 4 is currently being demonstrated internally, is being built with CryEngine 3, and was being shown privately in video form at E3 2011.

Crytek UK, who produced the other three games in the series as Free Radical, is still handling the development.

Both Microsoft and Crytek declined to comment.

The source reports that the graphics on TimeSplitters 4 are noticeably improved over current generation technology, with the DX11 tessellation effects allegedly having a huge impact on the visuals. Crytek believes that the game - and CryEngine 3 itself - will be seen as the cornerstone of next-generation development.

Crytek has invested heavily in DirectX 11 development primarily to focus on the new consoles, with the upcoming DX11 patch for the PC version of Crysis 2 being used internally as a benchmark of anticipated hardware trends.

As for the game itself, the new TimeSplitters is reported to focus on the series' branching paths and exploratory nature, with sandbox-style gameplay elements a big priority. The current goal is for levels to feature multiple routes that lead to the same overall conclusion.

Speculation about TimeSplitters 4 has been running since 2007. Since its initial announcement the game was even pegged to be a Wii-exclusive before languishing in development hell and being put on hiatus in 2009.

What does this mean for Halo 4, then, which was stated as an Xbox 360 game during its E3 2011 reveal?

Crytek has also recently announced that the CryEngine will support Nintendo's upcoming Wii U hardware. "Crytek's support for Wii U is definitely going to happen," said CEO Cevat Yerli.

Younger gamers might not be aware of the TimeSplitters series. 2005's TimeSplitters: Future Perfect was the last game in the franchise, and 2000's TimeSplitters was a well-received PS2 launch title, but the highlight of the series is undeniably 2002's TimeSplitters 2.

Crytek snapped up Free Radical in 2009 after the studio was forced into administration following the lacklustre critical and commercial performance of its PS3-exclusive shooter Haze. The Nottingham-based studio was rebranded as Crytek UK.

Crytek UK's last job was to handle the multiplayer portion of Crysis 2. "Whether it has enough mettle to compete in the long-term is another question - and one that will be tested over the coming months - but from this initial glance it certainly seems like there's enough in Crysis 2's multiplayer to at least tide people over until the autumn," I wrote in VideoGamer.com's 9/10 Crysis 2 review.
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'culdeus said:
'GroveDiesel said:
I guess I'm at somewhat of a loss as to what features people think need to be added so badly that MS or Sony need to release a new console? They both output at the highest HD standard. They both do 3D. They both have motion controls now. They both have lots of multimedia features (and could add more with software updates). So what feature(s) would be compelling enough for gamers to drop $500-700 on a new console?
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That's my feeling. There has not been anything in display technology to justify a console change out since either's launch. I'm not sure what big upgrade is there right now that you could package up and sell that anyone could point to. Maybe when 3D catches on it brings something, but not until then. 2015 to 2020 would be my guess.
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Half-Life 2 vs. Crysis.
 
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