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Matt Waldman

Josh Gordon Everything Thread

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Hurry up guys, getting close to 400 pages 

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Justin Blackmon got off probation last month & hasn’t been arrested in forever. Heard he looked rippped when he was running youth camps in OK this summer. Still only 27!

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12 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

All due respect, but you're being a bit silly here.  I am indeed conflating two events, but they are unarguably part of the same situation. The "Josh Gordon" situation. 

How are these two situations? Dude got suspended. He got suspended again. He went to rehab. He went to rehab again. 

Same situation. Same player. Same suspension. 

No, that's deliberately ignoring the differences between the incidents. 

Put it this way: John Doe goes to rehab as a means of skipping a required drug test. One year later, he goes to rehab as preparation for his impending reinstatement window. 

Clearly, those are two entirely different scenarios with only connective tissue of "rehab." 

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36 minutes ago, apalmer said:

It's routine legal advice for anyone charged with a DUI to start a rehab program so that when it goes to court they look like they're taking a pro-active approach and maybe look a little better in the eyes of the judge.  Every attorney who practices defending DUIs knows it and does it.  The fact that a person charged with a DUI "voluntarily" goes to rehab doesn't mean that it's likely that the judge suggested it. You're correct that he probably wouldn't have gone to rehab if he didn't think it would influence Goodell (unless he finally actually listened to those people who care about him more as a person than as a football player).  However, the leap to "the league likely suggested it" doesn't follow from that premise.

Didn't JG get his DUI over three years ago? What does that have to do with his most recent stint in rehab?

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1 minute ago, ATB said:

No, that's deliberately ignoring the differences between the incidents. 

Put it this way: John Doe goes to rehab as a means of skipping a required drug test. One year later, he goes to rehab as preparation for his impending reinstatement window. 

Clearly, those are two entirely different scenarios with only connective tissue of "rehab." 

Except they involve the same person. The same person who's suspended and trying to return to the NFL, so the same person in the same scenario. 

Other than that you might be onto something. 

Or not. 

lol 

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1 minute ago, ATB said:

Didn't JG get his DUI over three years ago? What does that have to do with his most recent stint in rehab?

How are you missing that it's all connected?  

As I said in a prior response to you - the issue is that he's a repeat offender. You keep speaking of Gordon's issues as thought they're entirely unrelated. The issue itself is the fact that the dude cannot stay clean and has repeatedly violated the rules. 

It's one issue. The DUI, the failed test, the missed test - all one loooooooong issue. 

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13 minutes ago, Wrigley said:

Hurry up guys, getting close to 400 pages 

I am donating this post to go towards that effort.

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8 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Except they involve the same person. The same person who's suspended and trying to return to the NFL, so the same person in the same scenario. 

Other than that you might be onto something. 

Or not. 

lol 

Just because it's same person doesn't mean you completely ignore the differences between the two scenarios.

7 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

How are you missing that it's all connected?  

As I said in a prior response to you - the issue is that he's a repeat offender. You keep speaking of Gordon's issues as thought they're entirely unrelated. The issue itself is the fact that the dude cannot stay clean and has repeatedly violated the rules. 

It's one issue. The DUI, the failed test, the missed test - all one loooooooong issue. 

I'm replying to someone else with this comment because he said JG went to rehab to aide his court case for a DUI... which was three years ago... so there is no legal reason to do so. 

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Don't worry, guys. Hot Sauce and I will get us to the promised land. 

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2 minutes ago, ATB said:

Just because it's same person doesn't mean you completely ignore the differences between the two scenarios.

I see it as one long scenario. 

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2 minutes ago, ATB said:

Don't worry, guys. Hot Sauce and I will get us to the promised land. 

lol - all good. I don't take any of this stuff that seriously. Except getting to 400 pages - that ish is important! 

:D 

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27 minutes ago, ATB said:

 

1 hour ago, apalmer said:

It's routine legal advice for anyone charged with a DUI to start a rehab program so that when it goes to court they look like they're taking a pro-active approach and maybe look a little better in the eyes of the judge.  Every attorney who practices defending DUIs knows it and does it.  The fact that a person charged with a DUI "voluntarily" goes to rehab doesn't mean that it's likely that the judge suggested it. You're correct that he probably wouldn't have gone to rehab if he didn't think it would influence Goodell (unless he finally actually listened to those people who care about him more as a person than as a football player).  However, the leap to "the league likely suggested it" doesn't follow from that premise.

Didn't JG get his DUI over three years ago? What does that have to do with his most recent stint in rehab?

 

Sorry, didn't think I needed to be that explicit.  Try it this way:

1. As an attorney, I routinely tell all DUI defendants that they should "voluntarily" go to rehab so they look better for the judge. However, that doesn't mean the judge "suggested it".  It means that's a way for the defendant look like he has seen the error of his ways and wants to make himself better and thus look better when he gets before the judge.
2. If I were lucky enough to get a client as rich and as stupid as Gordon, I would obviously use the same approach and tell him "Josh, if you voluntarily go to drug rehab, it's going to be much easier to convince the Commissioner that you've seen the error of your ways and want to make yourself better.  That will make you look better when the Commissioner reviews your case." That has nothing to do with his previous DUI and everything to do with his continued inability to stop getting high.
3. The fact that I advise Josh to do that (or that whoever is advising him now, since I'm not lucky enough to get his money), does not, in any way, shape or form, support your conclusion that "the league likely suggested it."

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24 minutes ago, ATB said:

Just because it's same person doesn't mean you completely ignore the differences between the two scenarios.

I'm replying to someone else with this comment because he said JG went to rehab to aide his court case for a DUI... which was three years ago... so there is no legal reason to do so. 

It was a simile, not a reference to his previous court case.  See above.

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2 minutes ago, apalmer said:

Sorry, didn't think I needed to be that explicit.  Try it this way:

1. As an attorney, I routinely tell all DUI defendants that they should "voluntarily" go to rehab so they look better for the judge. However, that doesn't mean the judge "suggested it".  It means that's a way for the defendant look like he has seen the error of his ways and wants to make himself better and thus look better when he gets before the judge.
2. If I were lucky enough to get a client as rich and as stupid as Gordon, I would obviously use the same approach and tell him "Josh, if you voluntarily go to drug rehab, it's going to be much easier to convince the Commissioner that you've seen the error of your ways and want to make yourself better.  That will make you look better when the Commissioner reviews your case." That has nothing to do with his previous DUI and everything to do with his continued inability to stop getting high.
3. The fact that I advise Josh to do that (or that whoever is advising him now, since I'm not lucky enough to get his money), does not, in any way, shape or form, support your conclusion that "the league likely suggested it."

That'd be all be fine and dandy if there weren't reports out there with sources claiming he went to rehab in cooperation with the NFL...

Edited by ATB

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4 minutes ago, ATB said:

That'd be all be fine and dandy if there weren't reports out there with sources claiming he went to rehab in cooperation with the NFL...

And there are reports that said the NFL wants nothing to do with him and was not involved.

2 hours ago, ATB said:

 

I mean, let's just look at the facts:

Dude went to rehab right when his reinstatement was approaching. 

His worst infractions have been weed and beer. 

He's done a longer stint in rehab than most who are punished for drug-related infractions. 

His mentor, Tim Montgomery, vouches for the kid. 

That's pretty much all we know right now. You say the NFL wants nothing to do with him. I say they likely suggested rehab. 

I guess we'll find out when he's reinstated :yes:

As you said, "All we know" is that he went to rehab.  We do not know that the NFL suggested he do it.  Is it possible? Sure.  Can we say it's likely? No.

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2 minutes ago, apalmer said:

And there are reports that said the NFL wants nothing to do with him and was not involved.

I've seen nothing that says the "NFL wants nothing to do with him." I've seen reports saying they are not actively considering his reinstatement which makes complete sense because he could not submit his reinstatement papers until today...

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1 hour ago, packer_junkie said:

My contribution to 400.. but I think it could be 500 or more by the time he finishes his Hall of Fame Career hoisting Lombardi trophies.... 

Curious to see what happens specially on page 420...

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My take on the matter is:

NFL said he could apply this month = they wouldn't have given permission to apply this month, if they wouldn't consider it this month. They can say next year, if they want to.

NFL wanted Josh to go into this rehab program = Josh went and finished this.

NFL is like considering how things went and if it's all good like it seems to be = there is no reason not to give a guy a chance.

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Fireinside said:

My take on the matter is:

NFL said he could apply this month = they wouldn't have given permission to apply this month, if they wouldn't consider it this month. They can say next year, if they want to.

The rules are what they are. The 21st is the first date he's eligible to reapply after being denied in May. 

They didn't "give permission". As I understand, it's x amount of days until the next application date. It's not a judgement call.

Quote

NFL wanted Josh to go into this rehab program = Josh went and finished this.

We don't know that at all. All we know is that Gordon went back to another 90 days in rehab, and allegedly finished it.  (Note: there have not yet been any reports of this, just the expectations of his life-coach/trainer)

Quote

NFL is like considering how things went and if it's all good like it seems to be = there is no reason not to give a guy a chance.

Until he applies, and until the NFL decides to review, they're not considering anything. When Gordon applies, the NFL will either reject his application (as they did in August) or they'll evaluate it. 

And there may be many reasons to not give the guy a chance. For one, why'd he need to go back to rehab? No one yet knows. For another, how many chances has he had? 

These will be weighed by the NFL when the NFL decides the time is right to weight them. 

For now, while I agree Gordon should be reinstated, that doesn't mean he will be. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy
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6 minutes ago, ImTheScientist said:

Any new news?

Josh PROBABLY didn't smoke weed today 

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14 hours ago, Slider said:

If I held that long (did in one dynasty) no way I'm dropping until one more failure to rejoin the NFL.

It wasn't like I held him in one dynasty the whole time. I had him stashed on an IR most of the time in one league and threw him in to get another deal done a couple weeks ago. In another league he was on the active roster, and I figured I'd hold until the 21st to see if the rumors were true. 

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Considering that the NFL rejected him in May, yet gave him a September date to apply again... it makes me think that he will be reinstated. Why would they bother allowing him to apply again so soon if they didn't plan on reinstating him at that point? I'm betting that they just wanted to make sure that he could stay clean from May until September, and he probably did a really smart thing by going into rehab to make sure that he stayed on top of this. 

I just don't see any reasonable explanation as to why they would let him reapply 4 months later, him stay on the right track between those points... only to be denied again. Of course, expected the NFL executives to make sense is probably where I'm going wrong here.

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Also, I think that you guys are getting the wrong idea about rehab, and why he may have gone. If Gordon wasn't clean in May, they wouldn't have allowed him to apply again in Sept. Going to rehab, even while clean would show the NFL that he is actively attacking this issue. It shows that he realizes that it's a problem even when he is sober. Taking the opportunity to spend that much time in rehab shows that he is trying to learn the life skills that he needs in order to stay clean. 

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5 minutes ago, WiDDoW_MaKeR said:

Also, I think that you guys are getting the wrong idea about rehab, and why he may have gone. If Gordon wasn't clean in May, they wouldn't have allowed him to apply again in Sept. Going to rehab, even while clean would show the NFL that he is actively attacking this issue. It shows that he realizes that it's a problem even when he is sober. Taking the opportunity to spend that much time in rehab shows that he is trying to learn the life skills that he needs in order to stay clean. 

I thought I read that the duration of time between applications is basically how the rules work.

 There's no inside story there. It is what it is. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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3 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I thought I read that the duration of time between applications is basically how the rules work.

 There's no inside story there. It is what it is. 

I haven't heard anything as far as "rules" for a timeline of application for reinstatement. Maybe that's the case, but I have not heard that anywhere else. Also, I think that we need to step back and look at this realistically. It isn't as if Josh was an abuser of harsh drugs, and committing domestic violence on the weekends. He was a young, dumb kid who couldn't stop smoking marijuana. Now, I don't see any reason why the NFL would once again deny him the opportunity advance his career if he is clean.

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4 minutes ago, WiDDoW_MaKeR said:

I haven't heard anything as far as "rules" for a timeline of application for reinstatement. Maybe that's the case, but I have not heard that anywhere else. Also, I think that we need to step back and look at this realistically. It isn't as if Josh was an abuser of harsh drugs, and committing domestic violence on the weekends. He was a young, dumb kid who couldn't stop smoking marijuana. Now, I don't see any reason why the NFL would once again deny him the opportunity advance his career if he is clean.

 In the original report from Gordon's life coach/trainer, they stated September 21 as the earliest date that he could reapply. 

 That would seem to indicate that there is a specific timeline. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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20 minutes ago, WiDDoW_MaKeR said:

I haven't heard anything as far as "rules" for a timeline of application for reinstatement. Maybe that's the case, but I have not heard that anywhere else. Also, I think that we need to step back and look at this realistically. It isn't as if Josh was an abuser of harsh drugs, and committing domestic violence on the weekends. He was a young, dumb kid who couldn't stop smoking marijuana. Now, I don't see any reason why the NFL would once again deny him the opportunity advance his career if he is clean.

If he was University of Alabama he sits out the first half of the next game

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21 minutes ago, ffldrew said:

If he was University of Alabama he sits out the first half of the next game

If it was my living room I'd be yelling "puff puff, pass, Josh."

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I’m surprised that there has been nothing at all on Gordon to this point. With the exception of that unconfirmed report that Gordon is more than 50/50 to play this season. I thought for sure that at the very least some big NFL names (Schefter for example) would confirm that JG is eligible to re-apply and state their theory on his situation.

Is no news good news? I suspect this is going to take a lot longer than most people thought.

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Just now, Saboo said:

I’m surprised that there has been nothing at all on Gordon to this point. With the exception of that unconfirmed report that Gordon is more than 50/50 to play this season. I thought for sure that at the very least some big NFL names (Schefter for example) would confirm that JG is eligible to re-apply and state their theory on his situation.

Is no news good news? I suspect this is going to take a lot longer than most people thought.

I already dropped him for a DB in my IDP league. 

I'll probably drop him in my other league next week. 

No news isn't good news, it's just no news. If he'd applied for reinstatement I'd expect that to have been reported on somewhere.

his agent hasn't said a word? Where's Mr Optimism life trainer guy Montgomery? He's the original source for the Sept 21st date. 

Could it be that report was BS too? 

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13 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

If he'd applied for reinstatement I'd expect that to have been reported on somewhere.

 

Already been reported. His papers were submitted the day he was allowed to. 

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Just now, ATB said:

Already been reported. His papers were submitted the day he was allowed to. 

Nope. Turned out that was fake. It was a bogus tweet that went slightly viral before people figured out it was BS. 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Nope. Turned out that was fake. It was a bogus tweet that went slightly viral before people figured out it was BS. 

The one that was from an NFL employee?

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Just now, ATB said:

The one that was from an NFL employee?

Didn't happen. 

Just googled it again - in the last week there's been a single shaky BR clickbait artfle that has none details and speculates his odds at "50-50", but that's it.

Not one update otherwise. Last update from the league was 6 days ago saying they've got nothing to do with Gordon. 

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7 minutes ago, Slider said:

That's a pretty good gauge of how delusional Gordon still is. It took months for the league to approve Bryant to even attend practice after his suspension, and it took months longer before he was actually allowed to practice.  Even then, he wasn't officially cleared to play until a few days before the season started.  But, Gordon thinks he's walking out of rehab and will be playing 2 days later?  Wonder if he was on a late-night munchie run when this guy ran into him?

Edited by apalmer
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4 minutes ago, greyhorse said:

This is the widely reported "personal conversation" with some guy who posts on a Browns message board.  From THREE weeks ago. Got any newer news? I can't seem to find any.

No, but I found it believable. I also have a calendar. Do your own research and report where you see from ANYTIME that he won't be reinstated ever. 

Until they say no one final time I'm going to be hopeful he returns.  You can continue being you. ?

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9 minutes ago, Slider said:

No, but I found it believable. I also have a calendar. Do your own research and report where you see from ANYTIME that he won't be reinstated ever. 

Until they say no one final time I'm going to be hopeful he returns.  You can continue being you. ?

I was on this train but now I think the outlook is dim. Believe me, I'm googling just like everyone else.  Be you, that's great.

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I understand now that all this useless talk in here is so that this thread gets to page 420 ASAP. Please continue. 

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5 minutes ago, Sebowski said:

I understand now that all this useless talk in here is so that this thread gets to page 420 ASAP. Please continue. 

I am pretty sure you have among the top 10 post counts in this thread over the last couple months. Seems odd considering how much you hate seeing it on the first page when there is no news to report.

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48 minutes ago, greyhorse said:

This is the widely reported "personal conversation" with some guy who posts on a Browns message board.  From THREE weeks ago. Got any newer news? I can't seem to find any.

There is a report from a reporter from Sporting News further up, but it has no timetable, just that (IIRC) Gordon will be applying for reinstatement. Again no timetable from the NFL.

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27 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

There is a report from a reporter from Sporting News further up, but it has no timetable, just that (IIRC) Gordon will be applying for reinstatement. Again no timetable from the NFL.

I didn't see anything from sporting news. Just that shady AF bleacher report dude saying "better than 50-50" with nothing in the article to substantiate that sentiment. 

The Sporting News article was the quote from Montgomery, Gordon's life coach/trainer from Sept 13th that rekindled all this nonsense, saying he'd reapply.

It wasn't a reporter - just a comment from that dude. And there has been none comment from Gordon, Montgomery, the NFL or Gordon's agent since.

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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