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Matt Waldman

Josh Gordon Everything Thread

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What's the standard for putting someone on IR? I don't really understand how a team can IR a player that is fit to play 2 weeks later. Is there no standard due to the understanding that the team loses that player for a year?

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40 minutes ago, Wise Old Owl said:

What's the standard for putting someone on IR? I don't really understand how a team can IR a player that is fit to play 2 weeks later. Is there no standard due to the understanding that the team loses that player for a year?

IIRC, there is no “standard.” Since a player gets paid, I don’t believe there is much difference between a player being inactive game after game or being on IR. For the team, the player is ineligible to play for 8 games or the remainder of the season if they don’t choose to have him return. 

NE didn’t just release him outright because they would have had to eat the salary cap hit and potentially a divisional rival could have claimed him. By waiting until the trade deadline passed, Gordon had to go through waivers and SEA took on his contract and salary cap hit for the remainder of the season. 

A bigger issue would have been if NE put him on IR and left him there if he were healthy. There likely would have been a grievance filed through the NFLPA,  but that was avoided when Gordon was released.  BB had stashed younger players on IR multiple times in recent years and there never seemed to be any blow back. 

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I might have to start him this weekend due to injuries...any hope for a decent game? Think bye week helped him learn the offense? It’s either start Gordon, Isabella, or Anthony Miller. Brutal I know.... 

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26 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

I might have to start him this weekend due to injuries...any hope for a decent game? Think bye week helped him learn the offense? It’s either start Gordon, Isabella, or Anthony Miller. Brutal I know.... 

No reason not to believe that Gordon's role doesn't increase. He played on like 38-39% of the snaps, caught a couple nice balls.

I'm a SEA / Wilson owner and I like all pass catchers in that offense. Lockett seems to be back, DK shining, Hollister impressive, now add Gordon. Lethal. One never plans on an injury, yet I can also treat all of these guys like handcuffs to RB's. 

Gordon just may be that shot in the dark play to score and catch 4-5 balls.

Who does your gut say has a better chance from the list of 3 WR's?

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1 hour ago, ffmail4me said:

I might have to start him this weekend due to injuries...any hope for a decent game? Think bye week helped him learn the offense? It’s either start Gordon, Isabella, or Anthony Miller. Brutal I know.... 

I'm in the same boat because of byes.  Last week of our regular season.  Might be starting Metcalf, Gordon, and Hollister.

Why did I do this to myself again?

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5 hours ago, Team Smokin' said:

No reason not to believe that Gordon's role doesn't increase.

There might not be a reason not to believe that Gordon's role doesn't increase, but there's also no reason not to believe that Gordon's role doesn't not decrease, either. 

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Lockett is pretty much the key here, but I do think Wilson wants a reliable red zone target and Gordon could be a TD hawk more than a receptions/yardage guy for this team.

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Another data point showing Waldman is the best fantasy writer alive. 
 

Josh Gordon is the rabbit hole of football. Regardless of the angle you take, the subject of Josh Gordon holds the mirror up to our collective ignorance as fans and football analysts.

Make the argument that Gordon is an addict who will unlikely remain clean long enough to make an impact and the counter-argument is that Gordon's repeated opportunities are a sign that he's made enough progress in his recovery—despite steps backward that are expected for addicts early on—that he's continuing to earn more opportunities to play.

If you raise the point that Gordon is only earning these opportunities because he's a massive talent, then you can't argue that Gordon has greatly diminished as a performer. Unfortunately, when it comes to Gordon, they place wheels under the goalposts of their arguments against him.

And if your only argument is that Gordon is no longer as good as his reputation, then you're ignorant about the details of a player's fit with the scheme. You may also be in denial about the substance of Tom Brady's game, which is a rampant focal point of ignorance from a variety of perspectives due to the polarizing emotions attached to his career.

Most of all, Josh Gordon holds the mirror up to fans and analysts about the nature of talent and how little we understand this prized commodity despite our constant obsession over who has it, who lacks it, and can they somehow develop it. [\quote]

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Or you could have brought up every single point Matt Waldman does for three hundred pages now, as people here have done on their own.  

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On 11/20/2019 at 8:46 AM, bostonfred said:

There might not be a reason not to believe that Gordon's role doesn't increase, but there's also no reason not to believe that Gordon's role doesn't not decrease, either. 

"Truly, you have a dizzying intellect" 

 

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On 11/23/2019 at 9:32 AM, Hooper31 said:

Another data point showing Waldman is the best fantasy writer alive. 
 

 

Lol

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On 11/23/2019 at 12:32 PM, Hooper31 said:

Another data point showing Waldman is the best fantasy writer alive. 
 

 

We blaming Wilson now?

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Week 10 Gordon plays 37% of snaps 10 days after being signed.  He makes two crucial catches.  He has a Week 11 bye to become more integrated into the offense.  He plays 34% of snaps in Week 12.  No bueno.

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Josh Gordon caught his lone target for 10 yards in the Seahawks' Week 13 win over the Vikings.

His patented play since joining the Seahawks, Gordon caught a third-down slant to give Seattle a first down. That's all he's been good for since coming over from New England. Gordon has four catches for 47 scoreless yards across three games. He doesn't see nearly enough of the field to be a fantasy option.

Dec 3, 2019, 12:25 AM ET

 

 

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On 11/24/2019 at 5:49 PM, BassNBrew said:

Thank goodness we learn our lesson from seasons past and start L Murray today

Building on this, benched Gordon for Jeffrey this week.  Wished I'd figured on the bench this bum for a stud on your bench strategy years ago.

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On 11/23/2019 at 12:32 PM, Hooper31 said:

Another data point showing Waldman is the best fantasy writer alive. 
 

 

Update?

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5 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Update?

Is one needed? Waldman is the best. If you disagree feel free to elaborate. 

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1 minute ago, Hooper31 said:

Is one needed? Waldman is the best. If you disagree feel free to elaborate. 

Other than being wrong more often than not, I guess he's the best.

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8 hours ago, Hooper31 said:

Is one needed? Waldman is the best. If you disagree feel free to elaborate. 

How about if you declare something? The burden of proof is on you to come up with reasons for a pretty hyperbolic comment. You're the one throat punching ponies for repeating things they heard from broadcasts and linking to nothing in lieu of.

Perhaps you can try something out that leads to something productive instead of uttering declarations as gospel.

Edited by rockaction

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1 hour ago, rockaction said:

How about if you declare something? The burden of proof is on you to come up with reasons for a pretty hyperbolic comment. You're the one throat punching ponies for repeating things they heard from broadcasts and linking to nothing in lieu of.

Perhaps you can try something out that leads to something productive instead of uttering declarations as gospel.

Fair enough. 

His Weekly Top 10 is a fantastic read each week. He's not married to anyone in the NFL when it comes to evaluation and backs up his opinions with outstanding objective observations all the time. His observations are based in the same format that he utilizes to scout players coming into the NFL. It's not based in like or dislike. He has a system of evaluation that mirrors the way a professional scout evaluates any talent. it's refreshing and unemotional.

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22 minutes ago, Hooper31 said:

Fair enough. 

His Weekly Top 10 is a fantastic read each week. He's not married to anyone in the NFL when it comes to evaluation and backs up his opinions with outstanding objective observations all the time. His observations are based in the same format that he utilizes to scout players coming into the NFL. It's not based in like or dislike. He has a system of evaluation that mirrors the way a professional scout evaluates any talent. it's refreshing and unemotional.

Glad you like the style, but does it work?  Not from what I have seen.  If you only followed his advice in Dynasty the last 10 years, I am certain your team would be in pretty bad shape

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1 hour ago, Hooper31 said:

Fair enough. 

His Weekly Top 10 is a fantastic read each week. He's not married to anyone in the NFL when it comes to evaluation and backs up his opinions with outstanding objective observations all the time. His observations are based in the same format that he utilizes to scout players coming into the NFL. It's not based in like or dislike. He has a system of evaluation that mirrors the way a professional scout evaluates any talent. it's refreshing and unemotional.

Thanks, Hooper31. For what it's worth, I read him, too, and find him an excellent and dispassionate evaluator. 

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Quote

Josh Gordon caught 2-of-5 targets for 34 yards in Week 14 against the Rams.

It's another nondescript game for Gordon, who finished behind D.K. Metcalf and Jacob Hollister in targets. This was his best game since coming over from the Patriots, but Gordon has still has to catch more than two passes in any game. Gordon's snaps could start to go up, but he's not a fantasy option right now.

Dec 8, 2019, 11:56 PM ET

 

 

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On 12/3/2019 at 12:15 PM, Hooper31 said:

Fair enough. 

His Weekly Top 10 is a fantastic read each week. He's not married to anyone in the NFL when it comes to evaluation and backs up his opinions with outstanding objective observations all the time. His observations are based in the same format that he utilizes to scout players coming into the NFL. It's not based in like or dislike. He has a system of evaluation that mirrors the way a professional scout evaluates any talent. it's refreshing and unemotional.

He’s a great read, but so was the fiction The Lord of the Rings.  Obviously the evaluation model isn’t working. 

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Same drill as every year. Fourth on his team in rec stats.  Wr #71 on the week with a game to play.   Playoff bust

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This thread was much more fun when the denials were plausible.  

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5 minutes ago, rockaction said:

This thread was much more fun when the denials were plausible.  

Wilson is clearly the problem. 

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41 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Wilson is clearly the problem. 

Won't hold the ball long enough for Josh to get open. 

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42 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Won't hold the ball long enough for Josh to get open. 

Arm isn’t strong enough for Gordon’s outstanding athletic Ability

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24 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Arm isn’t strong enough for Gordon’s outstanding athletic Ability

You capitalized "A" in ability like Hester Prynne. Josh should have to publicly wear the "A" for the rest of life, indebted to fantasy GMs everywhere. 

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Suspended indefinitely for violating the substance abuse policy per Adam Caplan 

Link

edited to add link 

Edited by whole-show

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Just so I can reiterate for the 100th time: THIS IS NOT A WEED PROBLEM! 

They don’t disclose what is failing them, I would put a large chunk of change on it being hard drugs causing the repeated failures. This is the end though. 

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NFL suspended Seahawks WR Josh Gordon indefinitely.

Gordon has been suspended indefinitely without pay for violating the NFL policies on performance-enhancing substances and substances of abuse. It marks the fifth time that the NFL has suspended Gordon for violating the league's policy. He finished his tenure with the Seahawks with just seven receptions for 139 scoreless yards in five games.

 

Edited by The Frankman

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While unsurprising, it Is a little bit sad. i was kinda hoping he was on the right track. 
 

that said, his release by the WR-starved Pats makes sense. I don’t understand why it took this long though. 

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7 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

for violating the NFL policies on performance-enhancing substances and substances of abuse

Both?  So not just weed?  PEDs too?

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13 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

While unsurprising, it Is a little bit sad. i was kinda hoping he was on the right track. 
 

 

My feeling as well.  Doesn't seem like a bad guy.

Even though he was playing for the Seahawks, I was hoping he could stay on track.  Unfortunate.

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10 minutes ago, iamkoza said:

so was his last NFL recorded stat an INT?

Seems so. No way he comes back. 

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20 minutes ago, matttyl said:

Both?  So not just weed?  PEDs too?

NFL does not consider weed a "substance of abuse"  - that's saved for harder drugs that Gordon has a long history of....

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3 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

It's not really that sad anymore. That ended after chance #3, IMO.

I mean, it’s always sad. Maybe no shock to it any more, but it’s never not sad when anyone succumbs to addiction like that.

As someone who’s dabbled in recreational enhancements but doesn’t have a very addictive personality, it’s hard for me to imagine trading getting high for an NFL career.

but then, I’m the kind of guy who can have a single beer with dinner, and move on with my evening while others I know are incapable of that sort of moderation. 

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