Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Terrelle Pryor (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter mere blitzianity
- Start date
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
2 years at $11.5M is backup money. Not sure where you thought he was being paid to be a starter.
Wait until OAK falls behind and has to throw (likely sometime in the late 1st quarter). Flynn will start looking like a much better option that the crap Pryor pretends is a pass.
Struggling to find anyone with a positive word to say about Pryor, even after recent developments. Sure, he's not transforming your fantasy season if he gets the starting job, but it sounds like a lot of people have it in for him from the start and can't even entertain the possiblity that he could be fantasy relevant.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Gawain
Footballguy
Yeah, I'm not getting the people who claim that Pryor has no value.
Even if he is Gabbertesque as a passer (2600 yards, 14 TDs, 11 INTs) his rushing stats are going to make him valuable.
The fact that Oakland will likely be behind in a lot of games coupled with his escapability make me believe that 50 yards a game isn't a crazy number. 50 yards a game and a third of TD a game all of a sudden turns his numbers into 4200 yards, 23 TDs, 11 INTs. That's pretty close to being a top 12 QB.
Yes, have you? The entire first page (admittedly from a year ago) is basically people saying he'll never be an NFL QB, can't throw etc. I bumped the thread on the second page because I thought he's now worth talking about again due to the past success of running QBs for fantasy. There have been some more positive comments since then, but at least one person claiming he has no fantasy value (which is patently not true), and a few others still pouring cold water on any hope of this guy being decent. Yet people want to get excited about the likes of Denard Robinson or Marlon Brown or some 4th string WR or RB as sleepers. I understand the Oakland offense is going to be brutal and Pryor isn't Cam Newton, but he has talent, and I'm surprised there isn't a bit more buzz about him, given that we've seen what difference makers running QBs can be, even ones we don't think of as competent NFL QBs. Maybe part of it is that QB is so deep - no one is really in the market for one, and so it doesn't feel that relevant.
I'm not driving the Pryor hype train, but I can think of many worse ways to spend a late draft pick, and more useless guys to pick up off the WW. As I said before in this thread, the negativity around this guy is kind of curious. He might bomb in the last preseason game and Flynn ends up starting, but isn't he exactly what we're looking for in a flier pickup?
Hoss Style
Footballguy
Ditto.
*Edited* to add that I just saw your reply. You can't really count the replies from a year ago. I think a lot of posters recently are giving him at least a little credit and a bit of possibility towards getting better.
Last edited by a moderator:
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Yeah, this is the Pryor thread but it makes no sense to even read the negative posts from last year because he WAS awful last year.
He seems to have improved a whole lot.
Fair enough - I was talking more about the general vibe, not just on this thread or this site. It's not that I think Pryor's awesome, I just find it kind of interesting that a lot of people seem to have a default negative opinion when it comes to this guy. I might be wrong.
Hoss Style
Footballguy
I agree. He's a perfect "flier" guy. If I learned anything from having Tebow on my team and watching every game a few years ago, it's that a guy with legs, even if he can't throw, can get you some fantasy points. Actually, though, I'm not on the bandwagon that says Pryor "can't throw". I read a blurb from him the other day where he admitted that he never really even knew how to throw. His coaches are teaching him now and one of them said it's like night and day from when he joined the team.
It seems to me he's been humbled a bit in the last year and seems eager to learn. Whether he becomes a good QB in the future is not really a concern to me (sorry, it's the Raiders
) but as a Fantasy Prospect he's absolutely worth a spot on your bench if you can make the room.And I sure wouldn't say he'll never be a good QB in the NFL. If he actually is learning to throw this year, then who knows where he'll end up.
Last edited by a moderator:
well looks like he is getting the starting nod... definitely worth grabbing if you have the roster space and need a back-up QB with upside due to his running ability.. and looks like Oakland plans to try and get the most out of him and play to his strengths.. could be in for a decent year fantasy wise...
13 for 28, 150 yds passing, 2 tds, 1 int
9 rush 49 yds, 1 rush td
good for 23 fantasy points in his lone start last year.... definitely could potentially be a steal this year.. as he on the waiver wire in most leagues... PICK HIM UP NOW
Last edited by a moderator:
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Pryor hasn't been named week one starter. He's only starting the week 4 preseason game tonight because of Flynn's tendonitis issue. They will take a long look at him tonight, no doubt to see how he can handle an expanded playbook. Till now, he's had a very limited set of plays, and it's time to see if he can be the starter. He's got a lot to prove.
Way premature to say it "looks like he's getting the starting nod" if we are talking for when the games count.
One thing that is very concerning though, Olson's comment that he's "looking for playmakers". That sounds pretty bleak.
Way premature to say it "looks like he's getting the starting nod" if we are talking for when the games count.
One thing that is very concerning though, Olson's comment that he's "looking for playmakers". That sounds pretty bleak.
massraider
Footballguy
No, you're right.
Thing is, it was mostly validated, this bad feeling. There may be irrational dislike, but until about 6 weeks ago, it was understandable. He was unlikable in college, was an average to below average prospect as a pure passer, and then was 'overdrafted' by Al Davis in the supplemental. Pretty easy to ignore/dislike him as a QB.
And by the way, every bit of action he got last year in preseason, and practice reports, there wasn't many good thing about the passing. The practice reports, from the beat writers, bordered on the brutal. The Raider fans that wanted him to play, no one thought he was the next Newton, it was more like, "Well, let's see what the kid can do."
Pryor this summer, this is the first we have seen of him. His improvement is dramatic. Turning point, it seems, is someone changed his mechanics. Pryor is famously (well, for Raider fans) quoted as saying he didn't know how to throw until this spring. So, this is not a guy that has shown well, and was stuck behind Palmer. Thus far, it seems like this is a guy that has pulled a 180, and dramatically improved.
My attitude has certainly done a 180. I saw no reason to play him last year, aside from the occasional funky offensive package, maybe on the goalline. Now, I think they HAVE to start him, because they need to know what they have in him before they decide on Bridgewater (or whichever QB) and Clowney next spring.
It's a lost year for the Raiders. They gutted short term talent to get out from under massive salary cap mistakes. If they find their QB this year, and Pryor is the goods, the year will be a success. They can draft Clowney, and enter next offseason with more cap space than anyone.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I don't have a dog in the fight and don't really care one way or the other, but that's about as pessimistic a take as someone could have in terms of Pryor's likelihood of starting. All signs pointing that way hard right now IMO.
Last edited by a moderator:
Sabertooth
Footballguy
What happened?
GoodLloydHaveMercy
Footballguy
He had a few good throws... I counted 1 or maybe 2 drops and at least one miscommunication with Denarius Moore
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
3 for 48 on the ground is eye-opening though. Easy points right there, even if he isn't a master passer.
I'm actually rooting for the guy. Oakland needs some hope and a spark. His rushing ability has me wanting to add him to my team, but I don't have the room. I believe the raiders get IND and JAX weeks 1 and 2. Those defenses may be improved, but they still wouldn't scare me. Pryor might start hot out of the gate!
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000237618/article/terrelle-pryor-wins-raiders-qb-job-over-matt-flynn
Terrelle Pryor confirmed as opening day starter.
Terrelle Pryor confirmed as opening day starter.
Clifford
Footballguy
What starting QBs would you rank him ahead of? Other than Alex Smith I can't think of a single one. EJ Manuel is going incredibly late too and he seems to actually have some talent and can throw. Why not him ahead of Pryor? Heck I'd wager Geno Smith will outperform him too. At least with both of those guys you know the team will stick with them if they bomb.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
QB/HB offense should be the way to go - for instance, Vince Young and Chris Johnson. But it depends on what Pryor can do.
What happened with Tebow though is the defenses were totally unafraid of his passing skills and so they just crowded the line, Bronco RBs (from what I recall) had little room to run.
The difference was Young could pass reasonably well and was actually pretty good at the deep ball. Tebow took advantage by hitting on some big pass TDs, also deep, but teams never stopped crowding the line right up through the Steelers who never learned the lesson either.
On the other hand it would help Pryor if he dumps it off to McFadden often. But I'm guessing defenses try to take the edges off the end to contain Pryor until they see if he can really complete short and intermediate passes or even burn them deep, that might hurt McFadden short term and maybe long term if Pryor doesn't improve.
Last edited by a moderator:
This is just wrong. When Tebow was starting in Denver in 2011 (games 6-16), Den RBs had 265 carries for 1266 yards. That's 4.8 YPC. If you extrapolate that to 16 games, it is 385 carries and 1850 yards. I'd hardly say that the Bronco RBs had little room to run.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
That's great stuff, I stand corrected. Thanks. Just a theory, so I guess based on that McFadden should be helped here?
Clifford
Footballguy
That's the way I remember it as well, but there are a lot of other variables at play here that make it an iffy comparison.
The Broncos had a fantastic defense that got off the field quickly, leading to more opportunities for the offense.
Broncos had a pretty good o-line that year. Raiders line has to rank as one of the worst in the NFL after the Veldheer injury. They just signed their left tackle a couple of days ago. That can't be good for the offense as a whole.
Also only fair to point out that Oakland has a much more talented back than did Denver, who might be able to make the most out of a little. Trouble is, McFadden has not shown great ability to adapt or to make the most out of a less-than-perfect situation.
The Broncos had a fantastic defense that got off the field quickly, leading to more opportunities for the offense.
Broncos had a pretty good o-line that year. Raiders line has to rank as one of the worst in the NFL after the Veldheer injury. They just signed their left tackle a couple of days ago. That can't be good for the offense as a whole.
Also only fair to point out that Oakland has a much more talented back than did Denver, who might be able to make the most out of a little. Trouble is, McFadden has not shown great ability to adapt or to make the most out of a less-than-perfect situation.
Romofan
Footballguy
All aboard the Pryor Train as my QB2! For those that didn't draft a backup like me this was a gift.
He looks like a completely different passer from that atrocious preseason game in '12.
Maybe all that work with his Brady's QB tutor worked! CPalmer said this kid was the hardest working QB he's seen. Obviously he wants it and is getting better and putting in the work.
Giev this kid some time to see what you've got. He's sitting behind Kaep for me in my 14 teamer so I don't nee to rely on him but I would rather have the upside on my bench rather than have a Ponder, or Gabbert sitting there wasting space.
He looks like a completely different passer from that atrocious preseason game in '12.
Maybe all that work with his Brady's QB tutor worked! CPalmer said this kid was the hardest working QB he's seen. Obviously he wants it and is getting better and putting in the work.
Giev this kid some time to see what you've got. He's sitting behind Kaep for me in my 14 teamer so I don't nee to rely on him but I would rather have the upside on my bench rather than have a Ponder, or Gabbert sitting there wasting space.
Broncos O-line wasn't great before Tebow became starter. They were average (tied for 16th, I think) in the first 5 games.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I jumped on this train last night with 3 successful $1 waiver bids in my 3 leagues. Let's see how this plays out. There is no downside to this. End of the roster guys are turnstiles anyway. Good luck to us both!Romofan said:
Clifford
Footballguy
I'm off the train, quickly flipped him for a WR upgrade. I just don't see this kid panning out. He was never an accurate passer in college, and played in the defensively toothless Big 10. He got to beat up on scrubs in preseason week 3 and played fairly well. He started week 4 playing against probably half starters and had a terrible game, stalling in the red zone with three straight incompletions, and then throwing a pick on the next series to finish 3-8 INT.
Yes he can run. But defenses should know how to play a mobile QB that can't really throw after watching Tebow.
ETA: Apparently there are people in Raiders clubhouse that agree with me
Terrelle Pryor doubted inside Raiders' organization491
Terrelle Pryor will be the man under center when the Oakland Raiders open their season Sunday against the Indianapolis Colts.
It's a decision that speaks volumes about the Raiders' current state. Pryor has little experience and clear deficiencies in his game. Perhaps unsurprisingly, this hasn't escaped the notice of people inside the Raiders' building.
During a Wednesday appearance on NFL Network's "NFL Total Access," NFL.com's Michael Silver said there's "a lot of skepticism" about Pryor being the starting quarterback in Oakland. According to Silver, Pryor has an ally in Raiders owner Mark Davis, who would like to see what the third-year pro can do.
Pryor was Al Davis' final draft pick before the late owner's passing in October 2011. Would it be surprising if Al's voice still was a deciding factor in Oakland?
Pryor won the starting job almost by default. Matt Flynn was unimpressive before being sidelined by another elbow injury. Rookie Tyler Wilson stumbled all the way to the practice squad. Rookie Matt McGloin isn't an option.
Or is he? According to Silver, there are voices in the organization who believe McGloin gives the Raiders the best chance to win.
McGloin, we'll remind you, is an undrafted, completely unheralded, rookie. These are dark days, even by Black Hole standards.
The "Around The League Podcast" is now available on iTunes! Click here to listen and subscribe.
Yes he can run. But defenses should know how to play a mobile QB that can't really throw after watching Tebow.
ETA: Apparently there are people in Raiders clubhouse that agree with me
Terrelle Pryor doubted inside Raiders' organization491
-
- By Dan Hanzus
- Around the League Writer
- Published: Sept. 4, 2013 at 09:02 p.m.
- Updated: Sept. 5, 2013 at 06:26 a.m.
Terrelle Pryor will be the man under center when the Oakland Raiders open their season Sunday against the Indianapolis Colts.
It's a decision that speaks volumes about the Raiders' current state. Pryor has little experience and clear deficiencies in his game. Perhaps unsurprisingly, this hasn't escaped the notice of people inside the Raiders' building.
During a Wednesday appearance on NFL Network's "NFL Total Access," NFL.com's Michael Silver said there's "a lot of skepticism" about Pryor being the starting quarterback in Oakland. According to Silver, Pryor has an ally in Raiders owner Mark Davis, who would like to see what the third-year pro can do.
Pryor was Al Davis' final draft pick before the late owner's passing in October 2011. Would it be surprising if Al's voice still was a deciding factor in Oakland?
Pryor won the starting job almost by default. Matt Flynn was unimpressive before being sidelined by another elbow injury. Rookie Tyler Wilson stumbled all the way to the practice squad. Rookie Matt McGloin isn't an option.
Or is he? According to Silver, there are voices in the organization who believe McGloin gives the Raiders the best chance to win.
McGloin, we'll remind you, is an undrafted, completely unheralded, rookie. These are dark days, even by Black Hole standards.
The "Around The League Podcast" is now available on iTunes! Click here to listen and subscribe.
Last edited by a moderator:
massraider
Footballguy
Not with the way these young running QBs have played lately, but geez...I'd hate to expect it.
In a 20 roster spot league, I cannot really see a roster spot for him.
Romofan
Footballguy
Nobody is arguing he is a great NFL QB or that he is showing elite potential. But the optimism isn't unrealistic if you allow for the possibility that his mechanics have been improved over the summer (he admitted he didn't know how to throw a football) and to me it looks like as long as he can extend the play he can find an open receiver. His rushing #'s for QB's are probably going to be top 5 in the NFL if not top 3. He's a better passer than Tebow and we all know how good he was for fantasy owners. Sure there's going to be tons of mistakes and it won't be pretty but the risk is practically ZERO and the upside is better than anything you can get scraping the bottom of the QB 2 barrel.
Maven
Footballguy
MUST READ ARTICLE on Terrelle Pryor
https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/1124/terrelle-pryor-tim-tebow-and-running-quarterback-history
Since 2001, there have been 43 quarterbacks that have had 60 or more rushing attempts in a season. It doesn’t matter how effective they were with those rush attempts, just that they reached the number 60. That’s it, not even four rushing attempts on average per week.
Rush Attempts # of Players Avg. Pass NEP # in Top 12 Lowest Finish 60-70 13 44.8 10 27 71-80 13 35.75 10 14 81-90 4 47.5 4 9 91-100 4 44.1 3 17 100+ 9 6.1 8 18 Total 43 34.1 35 27
35 of these signal-callers (81 percent) finished as a QB1 in that given season, leaving only eight players that did not. Four of those remaining players finished their respective seasons as a quarterback ranked 13th through 17th. In other words, 90 percent were above replacement level in 12-team leagues for the position. The remaining four that didn’t make the cut have a few caveats, however.
The 100-Carry Club
In a game of hypotheticals, let’s assume that Pryor will run the ball 100 times this season. That’s not too farfetched considering it’s only 6.25 times per game.
Year Player Passes Pass NEP Rushes Rush NEP TD Passes QB Finish 2012 Cam Newton 521 64.95 128 47.16 19 4 2011 Cam Newton 553 57.48 125 50.28 21 3 2006 Mike Vick 431 -45.32 122 59.25 20 2 2004 Mike Vick 367 -57.77 120 68.31 14 12 2011 Tim Tebow 306 -55.53 120 15.80 12 18 2012 Robert Griffin 427 73.63 115 59.29 20 5 2002 Mike Vick 455 21.35 112 39.21 16 3 2002 Daunte Culpepper 597 22.38 106 34.97 18 2 2005 Mike Vick 420 -26.23 101 44.09 15 7
Since 2001, nine quarterbacks have carried the ball 100 or more times (four in the past two seasons). Eight of those nine (and remember Tebow would’ve been part of this) finished with a top-12 rank. Seven were top seven or better and five finished as a top-4 quarterback.
https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/1124/terrelle-pryor-tim-tebow-and-running-quarterback-history
Since 2001, there have been 43 quarterbacks that have had 60 or more rushing attempts in a season. It doesn’t matter how effective they were with those rush attempts, just that they reached the number 60. That’s it, not even four rushing attempts on average per week.
Rush Attempts # of Players Avg. Pass NEP # in Top 12 Lowest Finish 60-70 13 44.8 10 27 71-80 13 35.75 10 14 81-90 4 47.5 4 9 91-100 4 44.1 3 17 100+ 9 6.1 8 18 Total 43 34.1 35 27
35 of these signal-callers (81 percent) finished as a QB1 in that given season, leaving only eight players that did not. Four of those remaining players finished their respective seasons as a quarterback ranked 13th through 17th. In other words, 90 percent were above replacement level in 12-team leagues for the position. The remaining four that didn’t make the cut have a few caveats, however.
The 100-Carry Club
In a game of hypotheticals, let’s assume that Pryor will run the ball 100 times this season. That’s not too farfetched considering it’s only 6.25 times per game.
Year Player Passes Pass NEP Rushes Rush NEP TD Passes QB Finish 2012 Cam Newton 521 64.95 128 47.16 19 4 2011 Cam Newton 553 57.48 125 50.28 21 3 2006 Mike Vick 431 -45.32 122 59.25 20 2 2004 Mike Vick 367 -57.77 120 68.31 14 12 2011 Tim Tebow 306 -55.53 120 15.80 12 18 2012 Robert Griffin 427 73.63 115 59.29 20 5 2002 Mike Vick 455 21.35 112 39.21 16 3 2002 Daunte Culpepper 597 22.38 106 34.97 18 2 2005 Mike Vick 420 -26.23 101 44.09 15 7
Since 2001, nine quarterbacks have carried the ball 100 or more times (four in the past two seasons). Eight of those nine (and remember Tebow would’ve been part of this) finished with a top-12 rank. Seven were top seven or better and five finished as a top-4 quarterback.
It is for this exact reason I grabbed Pryor on every team of mine that I could as soon as I read that he "might" be named the starter.
If he has even a decent passing stat line like 200 yards, 50-75 yards rushing, and a few Tds (one passing one rushing), people will be running to the wire for him.
For those of use who grabbed pryor PRIOR to week 1...congrats! He is the real deal and will reward us this year.
For the doubters who will now be scrambling to the WW to grab him after week 1. good luck! You probably missed the boat unless you have the 1st or 2nd waiver priority.
For the doubters who will now be scrambling to the WW to grab him after week 1. good luck! You probably missed the boat unless you have the 1st or 2nd waiver priority.
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
What do you guys think about Pryor in dynasty? I'm late for this train and really don't know what to think about him long-term.
cstu
Footballguy
I've picked him up and dropped him more times than I can count in his career and I don't either. I dropped him again after the last preseason game and was mostly impressed today, but I still don't think he has the head for the game.
He's fun to watch though.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Outscored my starters, in all 3 leagues. Ryan, Brady & Stafford.
Last edited by a moderator:
cstu
Footballguy
karmarooster
Footballguy
Throwing this out there for discussion from the other thread:
Dynasty wise, I'd say he has about as much value as Tebow had in his second season with Denver. It should be a fun ride, but he won't approach Kaep value because the long term value isn't as clear. I'd say your best bet is to try to sell him to a Raider fan.karmarooster said:
lod01
Footballguy
No idfea why he hasn't traded those guys for Pryor in every league. Every owner in those leagues would gladly take the better QB and ship him Vinc Yung II.Ok, start him next week then...
Hoss Style
Footballguy
Well, I'm in a Keeper League and picked him up a few weeks ago. I read a crapload about him after I picked him up and basically came to this conclusion:
Hold him. He's young. He's mobile. He's explosive. But most importantly (imo) - He seems humbled and willing to learn. He's openly admitted a few times that he knew nothing coming out of college. According to reports he's like a sponge when being taught. Look at his throwing motion - it's still not great but it's improved. He's a smart kid. This is all from his coaches and teammates, so it could be taken with a grain of salt, but it's better than neutral or negative stuff you sometimes hear about young players.
A young kid with obvious physical talent. A smart kid who's humble and willing to learn. Could be a winning combination. At the very least he's a "hold" right now based off of this first game.
ETA - I see the comparisons to Tebow and VY. I haven't watched the Raiders game yet, but VY was weak mentally and Tebow couldn't throw at all or read defenses. It seems Pryor is slowly improving as a passer and is starting to pick up defenses. I don't know how he is mentally but from quotes I've read he seems grounded. Am I wrong on this?
Last edited by a moderator:
Man of Zen
Footballguy
Question: Were Pryor's rushes part of designed option-style running plays, or as Vick-in-his-Atlanta years style bootlegs, keepers, and making-something-out-of-nothing type rushes?
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
They were the latter, which makes it awfully hard to defend. And for the folks who compare him to VY and Tebow, he posted 65% completions on 7.5 YPA. Those are solid passing numbers. The running numbers are what most focus on, but he's corrected a lot of his earlier poor mechanics. He's young, humble, passionate about winning. It's not a stretch to say he could get to the next level. After the game, he was very hard on himself, calling his performance 'awful'. He knew the game was there for the taking and he made a poor choice late in the game. Otherwise, he'd have pulled up one of the more surprising upsets. Doesn't strike me as a guy just happy to be here.
Similar threads
