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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory

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14 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

I get what you are saying and agree with a lot of it.  However the least interesting thing or worst thing for me that people is say is more on the lines of:  shut up and just take what the creators are giving you.  Forget that.  I would rather have people thinking about and nitpicking it than just shoving in popcorn and mindlessly consuming these things.  

I know you have discussed the difference between good and bad writing and the like in the movie threads.  We can be in awe of what it takes to make these shows and movies and still demand quality product.  

I agree with all of this. I do, however, frame my complaints about this season within a larger scope that includes the show's genius. 

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4 minutes ago, jdoggydogg said:

I agree with all of this. I do, however, frame my complaints about this season within a larger scope that includes the show's genius. 

That's fair, I (and I believe others) haven't felt quite this way about the show for a few seasons now though. 

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For you tv only troglodytes, will you read books 6 & 7 should GRRM ever get around to writing them?

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Just now, jdoggydogg said:

I agree with all of this. I do, however, frame my complaints about this season within a larger scope that includes the show's genius. 

As usual, I agree with jdogg.  Their backs were against the wall on how to end this.  Even going "barebones" in action compared to other seasons, HBO still had $100 million invested in just the 6 episodes.

It'll be half a decade at least before we get another budget like this.  I'll continue to rewatch random episodes at a whim going forward.  The last season being not what I would have preferred by no means takes away from the overall quality of work.  Leaves plenty of room for the author to make things right literature-wise with fans with the last 2 books.  Although it would seem like a miracle for him to finish the last one at this point.

Watching the documentary made me appreciate the production work of the series, although the table read thing was lamer than anything I could ever imagine.  Very surprised that many people knew how it ended that far ahead of time.  Would have thought multiple endings would have been filmed just to keep it under wraps.  

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, hooter311 said:

As usual, I agree with jdogg.  Their backs were against the wall on how to end this.  Even going "barebones" in action compared to other seasons, HBO still had $100 million invested in just the 6 episodes.

It'll be half a decade at least before we get another budget like this.  I'll continue to rewatch random episodes at a whim going forward.  The last season being not what I would have preferred by no means takes away from the overall quality of work.  Leaves plenty of room for the author to make things right literature-wise with fans with the last 2 books.  Although it would seem like a miracle for him to finish the last one at this point.

Watching the documentary made me appreciate the production work of the series, although the table read thing was lamer than anything I could ever imagine.  Very surprised that many people knew how it ended that far ahead of time.  Would have thought multiple endings would have been filmed just to keep it under wraps.  

Odd, I take the opposite after watching some of this stuff.  They chose to put their backs against the wall.  It's awesome that they were in position to do that, and good on them, but they did choose it - HBO wasn't rushing them or anything.  And while watching the making of was great and seeing the amount of effort put into these shows, listening to D&D talk about the characters and how they answered some of the questions gave me the impression that they didn't seem to have many answers, which was disappointing.    Like I said before, if they were done and/or struggling with the characters and story - how hard would it have been to hire a handful of writers?  It could have been done, but IMO their hubris and desire to move on to other projects turned an epic show into a inconsistent but still mostly good show for the last few seasons.  

Edited by KarmaPolice
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The more I think about it....the more I really don't like everything that happened after Drogon blew up the Iron Throne.  Hell...they have a Faceless Man in Arya in Kings Landing.  Have Grey Worm come in and see Jon there with no Dany....they fight.....Arya snipes Worm takes his face and then helps Jon and Tyrion escape to the Northern Army outside the city.  

That puts all the major players together on the outside; allows them to treaty with the Unsullied/Dothraki from a position of strength. They do their council....Jon agrees to be the King,(or doesn't if you want to reinforce the idea that Jon doesn't want power), names Tyrion his Hand and tells everyone that he has something to do before he can sit on the Throne. He goes North and doesnt' come back.  Sansa's the Warden of the North. Arya gets on her boat and Bran tells everyone he needs to go to The Wall to help with a rebuild.  When told there's no need for the Wall anymore...Bran lays some cryptic "Three Eyed Raven/Lord of Light" ####  on them like "There's always a battle between Good/Bad, Ice/Fire, Light/Dark".

Someone needs to get me a writing gig on the next show....cause my #### is tight.  

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9 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

The more I think about it....the more I really don't like everything that happened after Drogon blew up the Iron Throne.  Hell...they have a Faceless Man in Arya in Kings Landing.  Have Grey Worm come in and see Jon there with no Dany....they fight.....Arya snipes Worm takes his face and then helps Jon and Tyrion escape to the Northern Army outside the city.  

That puts all the major players together on the outside; allows them to treaty with the Unsullied/Dothraki from a position of strength. They do their council....Jon agrees to be the King,(or doesn't if you want to reinforce the idea that Jon doesn't want power), names Tyrion his Hand and tells everyone that he has something to do before he can sit on the Throne. He goes North and doesnt' come back.  Sansa's the Warden of the North. Arya gets on her boat and Bran tells everyone he needs to go to The Wall to help with a rebuild.  When told there's no need for the Wall anymore...Bran lays some cryptic "Three Eyed Raven/Lord of Light" ####  on them like "There's always a battle between Good/Bad, Ice/Fire, Light/Dark".

Someone needs to get me a writing gig on the next show....cause my #### is tight.  

Or just have Arya impersonate Dany. 

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38 minutes ago, hooter311 said:

As usual, I agree with jdogg.  Their backs were against the wall on how to end this.  Even going "barebones" in action compared to other seasons, HBO still had $100 million invested in just the 6 episodes.

It'll be half a decade at least before we get another budget like this.  I'll continue to rewatch random episodes at a whim going forward.  The last season being not what I would have preferred by no means takes away from the overall quality of work.  Leaves plenty of room for the author to make things right literature-wise with fans with the last 2 books.  Although it would seem like a miracle for him to finish the last one at this point.

Watching the documentary made me appreciate the production work of the series, although the table read thing was lamer than anything I could ever imagine.  Very surprised that many people knew how it ended that far ahead of time.  Would have thought multiple endings would have been filmed just to keep it under wraps.  

I want to make it clear that I think the show had a few problems these last couple of seasons. I guess I am fatigued by the constant and erosive effects that criticism takes in the modern world. 

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15 hours ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

It seemed to me that they telegraphed that "hell turn" for many seasons.  People just didn't want to see it, much like Tyrion.

Ultimately it comes down to... I am the storyteller.  I need to make the action believable to my audience.  That's my responsibility.

It doesn't matter whether I think people should have seen enough for it to become believable.  If the bulk of them didn't, then I failed at that bit of storytelling.  Not them, me.  The whole point of telling the story is to get it across to the audience.

(Unless you are Rian Johnson and your stated goal is to have equal amounts of people hate your story as love it.)

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3 hours ago, jdoggydogg said:

 but I don't think her turn could have been done better. 

All the dislikes

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39 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

All the dislikes

Whoops. I meant her turn should have been done better. 

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2 minutes ago, jdoggydogg said:

Whoops. I meant her turn should have been done better. 

All the likes

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4 hours ago, LAUNCH said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfVJZS7LuJ4

 

Not really GOT related, just Sophie Turner and Conan playing a drinking game called Tequila Slaps.

and it's a little chilly on set.    Winter is coming

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5 minutes ago, falguy said:

and it's a little chilly on set.    Winter is coming

::reported::

:D

 

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mmmm... jigglers

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On 6/5/2019 at 11:50 AM, sn0mm1s said:

Or just have Arya impersonate Dany. 

That's a little difficult once the dragon carries off her body.

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On 6/5/2019 at 10:26 AM, sn0mm1s said:

But he doesn't really have anything to trade later. With war, famine, torturing, raping, etc. etc. occurring all around what good is it for him to say "I saw Arya 6 months ago acting as a cupbearer for Lord Tywin at Harrenhal." If he wanted to keep her as a trading piece he should've grabbed her covertly *then* (similar to what he does with Sansa after Joffrey's death). It does him no good to leave her behind.

If he gives her away to Tywin, that info is going to get out.  It makes the Starks enemies forever.  Not to his purpose at all.

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7 minutes ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

If he gives her away to Tywin, that info is going to get out.  It makes the Starks enemies forever.  Not to his purpose at all.

Exactly.  Littlefinger was playing a long game.  And for as much awful stuff as he did on the show, he did aid in Joffrey's murder and then basically saved the battle of the bastards for Jon and the others.  He deserved what Arya gave to him, but I will give him a little props for those things, even if they were purely made for his own interests rather than doing it for the greater good. 

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26 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Exactly.  Littlefinger was playing a long game.  And for as much awful stuff as he did on the show, he did aid in Joffrey's murder and then basically saved the battle of the bastards for Jon and the others.  He deserved what Arya gave to him, but I will give him a little props for those things, even if they were purely made for his own interests rather than doing it for the greater good. 

Mr R and I always hissed gently when he smoothed into a room.

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54 minutes ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

If he gives her away to Tywin, that info is going to get out.  It makes the Starks enemies forever.  Not to his purpose at all.

Wait... just prior to this conversation Cat slapped him because she thinks he betrayed Ned - which he did. He isn't on her side either when they meet. He also is responsible for killing Lysa and Jon Arryn and lied about the dagger.  Littlefinger doesn't like the Starks. He doesn't care if they don't like him - especially if their House is eradicated.

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59 minutes ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

That's a little difficult once the dragon carries off her body.

Why? The Faceless men don't need a body to mimic a face.

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1 hour ago, sn0mm1s said:

Why? The Faceless men don't need a body to mimic a face.

You do know the face is a part of the body, right?

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1 hour ago, sn0mm1s said:

Wait... just prior to this conversation Cat slapped him because she thinks he betrayed Ned - which he did. He isn't on her side either when they meet. He also is responsible for killing Lysa and Jon Arryn and lied about the dagger.  Littlefinger doesn't like the Starks. He doesn't care if they don't like him - especially if their House is eradicated.

He needs to be able to play the Starks against the Lannisters.  It's how he plans to gain the crown.

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3 hours ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

He needs to be able to play the Starks against the Lannisters.  It's how he plans to gain the crown.

They are already at war. Ned is dead. Jon Arryn is dead. Robert is dead. If he only cared about gaining the Throne he wouldn't have arranged for the Tyrell/Lannister marriage. That pretty much makes the Lannisters the winners. He also likely would've handled the Jaime/Cersei relationship differently. 

3 hours ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

You do know the face is a part of the body, right?

And? 

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10 hours ago, falguy said:

and it's a little chilly on set.    Winter is coming

 

8 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

mmmm... jigglers

 

3 hours ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

You do know the face is a part of the body, right?

Love this more in context of the other posts on this page. 

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I think GRR might turn into real genius here. As a tv-only participant in this story, I’m aware of the angst on the book side of his ability to get the stories done. 

If we are to believe he fed the writers his real ending, what better way to move along a block in wrapping the story other than to feed them one of the proposed endings and see what the market thinks?

Now seeing fan reaction, there’s no way the books play out the same way and GRR reclaims the genius throne for giving the fans a better ending. 

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On 6/6/2019 at 8:40 AM, LAUNCH said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfVJZS7LuJ4

 

Not really GOT related, just Sophie Turner and Conan playing a drinking game called Tequila Slaps.

I would play that game with her every...dammed....night.

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On 6/6/2019 at 11:00 PM, Mrs. Rannous said:

He needs to be able to play the Starks against the Lannisters.  It's how he plans to gain the crown.

If you re-watch the scene (link below, the last minute of the clip), there are three phases to Littlefinger reacting to Arya. 

Phase 1: he sees her face when he turns to his right, does a double take, and then quickly looks to his left as she walks that way, almost like he is thinking, "wait, is that the Stark girl?" 

Phase 2: when she pours wine on his hand, he says, "it's only wine," and kind of avoids looking at her directly, almost like he doesn't want her to know that he recognized her, and then when she turns, he literally leans forward while looking to his right to try and get a better look to confirm that she really is who he thinks she is. 

Phase 3: his eyes follow her across the room as he starts talking to Tywin again and the way he looks gives indicates that he is sure she is a Stark, and he then leads into telling Tywin about how he met with Catelyn Stark about her daughters, and the way he pronounces the word 'daughters' makes it clear that he wanted Arya to hear what he was saying. 

Brilliantly acted scene by both Maisie Williams and Aidan Gillen (and of course Charles Dance, who was incredible in every single scene he was in). 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9jac7Qg9w4

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On 6/6/2019 at 10:53 PM, sn0mm1s said:

Wait... just prior to this conversation Cat slapped him because she thinks he betrayed Ned - which he did. He isn't on her side either when they meet. He also is responsible for killing Lysa and Jon Arryn and lied about the dagger.  Littlefinger doesn't like the Starks. He doesn't care if they don't like him - especially if their House is eradicated.

Do you believe LF when he talks about his love for Cat?

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LF is playing "Titles Beget Titles"......but he's not such in control that he was able to see where it was all going when he poisoned Jon Arryn.  

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45 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

 

Do you believe LF when he talks about his love for Cat?

At which point? I think he loved Cat or at least thought he did as a kid. I don't think Littlefinger loves anyone but Littlefinger in the books/show.

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On 6/7/2019 at 10:47 PM, facook said:

I would play that game with her every...dammed....night.

big crime in the series was not seeing sophies goods

 

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On 6/5/2019 at 11:27 AM, chet said:

For you tv only troglodytes, will you read books 6 & 7 should GRRM ever get around to writing them?

I intend to read them all at some point. I generally enjoy reading the book a movie or show is based on after watching it. The book adds additional details and allows me to revisit the story. When I do it the other way around (read the book first), I tend to be disappointed in the movie/show for the things that were left out. Movie/show first and book last seems to maximize my enjoyment of both. 

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On 5/28/2019 at 2:04 PM, Maurile Tremblay said:

That was great!

I also endorse this as a better ending than what we got:

How Game of Thrones Should Have Ended

Never saw this, but I like it way better. I agree completely about the night king. He should have been the climax. Lots of good points and I think it would have made for a much better final season. 

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6 hours ago, ClownCausedChaos2 said:

Okay, I'm done binge watching the entire series.  Feel free to talk about it now.

What did you think? 

 

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On 7/14/2019 at 10:44 PM, Ghost Rider said:

What did you think? 

 

It was a great show overall.  Very compelling and kept me coming back.  Dinklage was amazing.  The writing and acting made me connect with and care for or hate the characters.  But, I'm with the majority when it came to the last season.  There was so much potential, but it seemed rushed to wrap up the storylines.  I think the undead should have been the big bad at the end.  They should have overtaken the north.  Dani, Jon, and the rest should have been forced South and and the final battle should have Ben at King's Landing.  Alliances should have been tested more.

Jon's lineage should have been discussed/debated more in the end.  I didn't like the choice for king. I didn't think he was a strong enough presence throughout the series.  I wish they had written Tyrian accepting the crown.  Would have been a nice ironic twist to keep the Lannister family on the throne....or what's left of it.

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2 hours ago, ClownCausedChaos2 said:

It was a great show overall.  Very compelling and kept me coming back.  Dinklage was amazing.  The writing and acting made me connect with and care for or hate the characters.  But, I'm with the majority when it came to the last season.  There was so much potential, but it seemed rushed to wrap up the storylines.  I think the undead should have been the big bad at the end.  They should have overtaken the north.  Dani, Jon, and the rest should have been forced South and and the final battle should have Ben at King's Landing.  Alliances should have been tested more.

Jon's lineage should have been discussed/debated more in the end.  I didn't like the choice for king. I didn't think he was a strong enough presence throughout the series.  I wish they had written Tyrian accepting the crown.  Would have been a nice ironic twist to keep the Lannister family on the throne....or what's left of it.

I didn't like the choice of Bran either, but I do love the fact that House Stark collectively won the Game of Thrones, which, to me, was the ending that had to happen. 

I agree that some of the storylines felt rushed in the last season, but I still like it a lot overall and feel that the endless #####ing about it is way over the top.   It was a good final season to an otherwise tremendous show, IMO. 

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I miss this show.  I'm trying to fill the void with Euphoria and, Years and Years.  But both aren't that great.  They have their moments and the world of Years and Years is entertaining.  But I'm already watching them just because I watched them.

We need another season of GOT.  It can just be small council meetings with Tyrion, Sam, Ser Brienne and Ser Bronn and Ser Davos.  I'm good with that.  Really.

That's easily 4 seasons of 10 episodes each.  They can be a half hour long even.  I might even be ok if they did it in a Starbucks instead of on set.

Something.

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42 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

I miss this show.  I'm trying to fill the void with Euphoria and, Years and Years.  But both aren't that great.  They have their moments and the world of Years and Years is entertaining.  But I'm already watching them just because I watched them.

We need another season of GOT.  It can just be small council meetings with Tyrion, Sam, Ser Brienne and Ser Bronn and Ser Davos.  I'm good with that.  Really.

That's easily 4 seasons of 10 episodes each.  They can be a half hour long even.  I might even be ok if they did it in a Starbucks instead of on set.

Something.

I miss the show that should have had a great ending. After that final season, which still had promise a few episodes in, my desire to watch more of it are gone. Maybe the spinoffs can be solid but I'd have a hard time watching from the beginning knowing where it goes. 

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3 hours ago, Yankee23Fan said:

I miss this show.  I'm trying to fill the void with Euphoria and, Years and Years.  But both aren't that great.  They have their moments and the world of Years and Years is entertaining.  But I'm already watching them just because I watched them.

We need another season of GOT.  It can just be small council meetings with Tyrion, Sam, Ser Brienne and Ser Bronn and Ser Davos.  I'm good with that.  Really.

That's easily 4 seasons of 10 episodes each.  They can be a half hour long even.  I might even be ok if they did it in a Starbucks instead of on set.

Something.

Like stbugs mentioned, that last season really ruined things for me.  Perhaps one day I'll be ready for a rewatch, but right now that whole show is tainted.  If the new episodes you speak of are anything like the last season, hard pass.

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On 7/16/2019 at 10:07 PM, Ghost Rider said:

I didn't like the choice of Bran either, but I do love the fact that House Stark collectively won the Game of Thrones, which, to me, was the ending that had to happen. 

I agree that some of the storylines felt rushed in the last season, but I still like it a lot overall and feel that the endless #####ing about it is way over the top.   It was a good final season to an otherwise tremendous show, IMO. 

The criticism is deserved. The last season was rushed. The rich storylines and conflicts were jump ended. You can say that the last season was OK but you have to compare it to the seasons before it which were really, really good (though season 7 started the downhill slope). It is important to stick the landing if you want to score a 10.

Its bizarre that they had more money and more time for the last season and produced an inferior product compared to previous seasons. It just seems that without Martin's detailed plot, dialogue and descriptions to assist they could not take their game to his level. But Martin is a master. 

These writers were left in a lurch when Martin went dry regarding Books 6 and 7. So I cut them some slack for that. But as a fan you have to be disappointed in the last two seasons, especially 8.

Edited by Moonlight
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1 hour ago, Moonlight said:

These writers were left in a lurch when Martin went dry regarding Books 6 and 7. So I cut them some slack for that. But as a fan you have to be disappointed in the last two seasons, especially 8.

A thing I find particularly frustrating about that is that Martin was himself a t.v. show writer at one point. It's not like he's put out a ton of other stuff besides the fire and ice series. He couldn't have spent a little time helping the show writers out more on the last few seasons? Maybe it would have helped his book writing process into the bargain. Disappointing.

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1 hour ago, Moonlight said:

The criticism is deserved. The last season was rushed. The rich storylines and conflicts were jump ended. You can say that the last season was OK but you have to compare it to the seasons before it which were really, really good (though season 7 started the downhill slope). It is important to stick the landing if you want to score a 10.

Its bizarre that they had more money and more time for the last season and produced an inferior product compared to previous seasons. It just seems that without Martin's detailed plot, dialogue and descriptions to assist they could not take their game to his level. But Martin is a master. 

These writers were left in a lurch when Martin went dry regarding Books 6 and 7. So I cut them some slack for that. But as a fan you have to be disappointed in the last two seasons, especially 8.

No, I do not have to be disappointed...because I wasn't; I wasn't blown away either.  

Even if the ending didn't totally stick to landing and not get the 10, that doesn't mean it was a 1, like many have suggested.  I know nowadays everything is the best thing ever or the worst thing ever, but sometimes something can merely be "good," which is what I would call the last season of Game of Thrones. I have conceded to numerous glaring flaws, but I still enjoyed the heck out of it.  

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58 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

No, I do not have to be disappointed...because I wasn't; I wasn't blown away either.  

Even if the ending didn't totally stick to landing and not get the 10, that doesn't mean it was a 1, like many have suggested.  I know nowadays everything is the best thing ever or the worst thing ever, but sometimes something can merely be "good," which is what I would call the last season of Game of Thrones. I have conceded to numerous glaring flaws, but I still enjoyed the heck out of it.  

People around here were claiming that the show was a 1 because of the ending?

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