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Larry Fitzgerald (1 Viewer)

cvnpoka said:
he should not lose 2 steps at 31 yrs old. well, if you listen to quack drs and put crap in your body and likely have a terribad workout program if your diet is any indication then ya, you lose 2 steps and destroy your career. that is clearly what happened here.

find another modern wr who has fell apart at 31? i mean, reggie wayne is still going strong at 37. he proly still eats meat to. lol larry. lol diets. lol quack drs. lol me for drafting this naive clown.
Click to expand...
He hasn't lost 2 steps. He was just never two steps ahead to begin with. Fitz has made a living off great hands and concentration in contested/tight coverage situations and gaining separation by being a technician at selling his routes against DB's as fast as or faster then he. But when you aren't fast to begin with and THEN lose a step or even half-step...it means it's easier for a younger, faster DB to recover and close even when you do sell the route.

I do think last night was a low mark for him this season. And there will be some games where he leads in targets. But I do think many of his proponents may need to adjust their expectation ceiling downward a bit. Arians still likes the vertical game. Fitz getting looks in the slot won't be equal to looks in the slot in other offenses. Had Reggie Wayne had a WR the caliber of Floyd v.2014 on the other side of him, I daresay that would have had a negative impact on his numbers.

Fitz is still going to contribute mightily in terms of the real football for the Cardinals this year. But I think the rumors of his demise weren't as greatly exaggerated as some thought.

 
I'm bummed by his utilization. I'm also surprised at how much some people in here are underestimating his talent.

 
JamesTheScot said:
cvnpoka said:
he should not lose 2 steps at 31 yrs old. well, if you listen to quack drs and put crap in your body and likely have a terribad workout program if your diet is any indication then ya, you lose 2 steps and destroy your career. that is clearly what happened here.

find another modern wr who has fell apart at 31? i mean, reggie wayne is still going strong at 37. he proly still eats meat to. lol larry. lol diets. lol quack drs. lol me for drafting this naive clown.
Click to expand...
He hasn't lost 2 steps. He was just never two steps ahead to begin with. Fitz has made a living off great hands and concentration in contested/tight coverage situations and gaining separation by being a technician at selling his routes against DB's as fast as or faster then he. But when you aren't fast to begin with and THEN lose a step or even half-step...it means it's easier for a younger, faster DB to recover and close even when you do sell the route.

I do think last night was a low mark for him this season. And there will be some games where he leads in targets. But I do think many of his proponents may need to adjust their expectation ceiling downward a bit. Arians still likes the vertical game. Fitz getting looks in the slot won't be equal to looks in the slot in other offenses. Had Reggie Wayne had a WR the caliber of Floyd v.2014 on the other side of him, I daresay that would have had a negative impact on his numbers.

Fitz is still going to contribute mightily in terms of the real football for the Cardinals this year. But I think the rumors of his demise weren't as greatly exaggerated as some thought.
Click to expand...
Reggie Wayne @ age 36 just caught 9 passes for 98 yards with Torrey Smith on the other side of him and Hakim Nicks and 2 TEs cutting into his targets

 
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monk said:
JamesTheScot said:
cvnpoka said:
he should not lose 2 steps at 31 yrs old. well, if you listen to quack drs and put crap in your body and likely have a terribad workout program if your diet is any indication then ya, you lose 2 steps and destroy your career. that is clearly what happened here.

find another modern wr who has fell apart at 31? i mean, reggie wayne is still going strong at 37. he proly still eats meat to. lol larry. lol diets. lol quack drs. lol me for drafting this naive clown.
Click to expand...
He hasn't lost 2 steps. He was just never two steps ahead to begin with. Fitz has made a living off great hands and concentration in contested/tight coverage situations and gaining separation by being a technician at selling his routes against DB's as fast as or faster then he. But when you aren't fast to begin with and THEN lose a step or even half-step...it means it's easier for a younger, faster DB to recover and close even when you do sell the route.

I do think last night was a low mark for him this season. And there will be some games where he leads in targets. But I do think many of his proponents may need to adjust their expectation ceiling downward a bit. Arians still likes the vertical game. Fitz getting looks in the slot won't be equal to looks in the slot in other offenses. Had Reggie Wayne had a WR the caliber of Floyd v.2014 on the other side of him, I daresay that would have had a negative impact on his numbers.

Fitz is still going to contribute mightily in terms of the real football for the Cardinals this year. But I think the rumors of his demise weren't as greatly exaggerated as some thought.
Click to expand...
Reggie Wayne @ age 36 just caught 9 passes for 98 yards with Torrey Smith on the other side of him and Hakim Nicks and 2 TEs cutting into his targets
Click to expand...
:confused:

 
That ridiculous one handed catch in the endzone is who this guy is. Imo Fitzgerald has plenty of gas in the tank to be a quality WR2. But....

1) Bruce Arians is a weird dude. His offenses are not QB driven, theyre scheme driven. Carson Palmer isn't looking over the defense to decide where the ball is going, Arians is looking over his playsheet to decide where Palmer is going to put the ball. Its an old fashioned style compared to the high powered route-tree offenses we see these days. Not to say it cant be effective, but it takes a lot out of the hands of the guys on the field.

2) Carson Palmer can make every throw, but there's a reason he never lived up to his potential. In my opinion, he doesn't have the mental acuity great QBs have. I dont think he reads defenses particularly well, and (at least in this offense) he doesn't go through progressions. That means the ball is going where the play demands that it goes (see point 1), regardless of circumstance. Watch Palmers eyes when he drops back, he is just staring down the receiver he's going to. Whatever system you're running, thats a bad idea against NFL DBs.

Fitz is going to have big games, and very quiet games, and it has less to do with his physical tools right now and more to do with what Arians is trying to do that week. For better or for worse.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
mbuehner said:
That ridiculous one handed catch in the endzone is who this guy is. Imo Fitzgerald has plenty of gas in the tank to be a quality WR2. But....

1) Bruce Arians is a weird dude. His offenses are not QB driven, theyre scheme driven. Carson Palmer isn't looking over the defense to decide where the ball is going, Arians is looking over his playsheet to decide where Palmer is going to put the ball. Its an old fashioned style compared to the high powered route-tree offenses we see these days. Not to say it cant be effective, but it takes a lot out of the hands of the guys on the field.

2) Carson Palmer can make every throw, but there's a reason he never lived up to his potential. In my opinion, he doesn't have the mental acuity great QBs have. I dont think he reads defenses particularly well, and (at least in this offense) he doesn't go through progressions. That means the ball is going where the play demands that it goes (see point 1), regardless of circumstance. Watch Palmers eyes when he drops back, he is just staring down the receiver he's going to. Whatever system you're running, thats a bad idea against NFL DBs.

Fitz is going to have big games, and very quiet games, and it has less to do with his physical tools right now and more to do with what Arians is trying to do that week. For better or for worse.
Click to expand...
This is a very good post.

In addition, Fitz and Palmer just do not have good rapport which you'd think two vets would be able to develop fairly quickly but for some reason it just hasn't happened. It was clear a few times during the preseason and occurred again last night. Both on an in route where Fitz sat down and Palmer thought he would break back outside plus IIRC the failed 2-pt attempt which should have been a pretty simple fade that was way off.

 
Looking forward to Fitz getting out of Arizona. The odds that he's lost so much he can't function as a WR1 are pretty low IMO (given the lack of a major injury).

 
mbuehner said:
That ridiculous one handed catch in the endzone is who this guy is. Imo Fitzgerald has plenty of gas in the tank to be a quality WR2. But....

1) Bruce Arians is a weird dude. His offenses are not QB driven, theyre scheme driven. Carson Palmer isn't looking over the defense to decide where the ball is going, Arians is looking over his playsheet to decide where Palmer is going to put the ball. Its an old fashioned style compared to the high powered route-tree offenses we see these days. Not to say it cant be effective, but it takes a lot out of the hands of the guys on the field.

2) Carson Palmer can make every throw, but there's a reason he never lived up to his potential. In my opinion, he doesn't have the mental acuity great QBs have. I dont think he reads defenses particularly well, and (at least in this offense) he doesn't go through progressions. That means the ball is going where the play demands that it goes (see point 1), regardless of circumstance. Watch Palmers eyes when he drops back, he is just staring down the receiver he's going to. Whatever system you're running, thats a bad idea against NFL DBs.

Fitz is going to have big games, and very quiet games, and it has less to do with his physical tools right now and more to do with what Arians is trying to do that week. For better or for worse.
Click to expand...
Two reasons: Injury and situation.

Palmer was elite before injury. It won't show up in the stat sheet because rules and offenses have changed, but in his time, Palmer was top 3-4. Then he screwed up his elbow and elected not to have surgery. He came back to a Bengals team that was a dumpster fire. He had made Chad "can't learn a playbook" Johnson into a star and TJ "too slow" Houshmandzadeh into a fantasy WR2. After the injury/dumpster fire, he understandably said "screw it" and didn't want to play for Cincy anymore. Got traded to another dumpster fire. Actually put up really good stats after getting thrown into the fire the first couple weeks without learning the playbook. Then he came to Arizona and had no offensive line. Yet, I think his last 9 games (now last 10 games) are indicative of the quality of player he is. The guy is averaging over 8 ypa and 2:1 td to int ratio over his last 10 games in this system.

Palmer is a smart QB. The mental acuity thing you just pulled out of your a$$.

Back to the topic, Fitz was injured last year and still caught 10 TDs and led the team in targets. He's going to be fine. Enjoy this buying opportunity, folks.

 
chinawildman said:
monk said:
JamesTheScot said:
cvnpoka said:
he should not lose 2 steps at 31 yrs old. well, if you listen to quack drs and put crap in your body and likely have a terribad workout program if your diet is any indication then ya, you lose 2 steps and destroy your career. that is clearly what happened here.

find another modern wr who has fell apart at 31? i mean, reggie wayne is still going strong at 37. he proly still eats meat to. lol larry. lol diets. lol quack drs. lol me for drafting this naive clown.
Click to expand...
He hasn't lost 2 steps. He was just never two steps ahead to begin with. Fitz has made a living off great hands and concentration in contested/tight coverage situations and gaining separation by being a technician at selling his routes against DB's as fast as or faster then he. But when you aren't fast to begin with and THEN lose a step or even half-step...it means it's easier for a younger, faster DB to recover and close even when you do sell the route.

I do think last night was a low mark for him this season. And there will be some games where he leads in targets. But I do think many of his proponents may need to adjust their expectation ceiling downward a bit. Arians still likes the vertical game. Fitz getting looks in the slot won't be equal to looks in the slot in other offenses. Had Reggie Wayne had a WR the caliber of Floyd v.2014 on the other side of him, I daresay that would have had a negative impact on his numbers.

Fitz is still going to contribute mightily in terms of the real football for the Cardinals this year. But I think the rumors of his demise weren't as greatly exaggerated as some thought.
Click to expand...
Reggie Wayne @ age 36 just caught 9 passes for 98 yards with Torrey Smith on the other side of him and Hakim Nicks and 2 TEs cutting into his targets
Click to expand...
:confused:
Click to expand...
Woops TY Hilton (similar)

 
Larry Fitzgerald - WR - Cardinals

Speaking Tuesday, coach Bruce Arians said the Cardinals aren't going to make a concerted effort to force Larry Fitzgerald the ball.
"The days of targeting one receiver are gone," Arians said. "We don't design plays to have guys get the ball. ... Coverages dictate." It's a strong response to the scuttlebutt over Fitzgerald getting only four targets in Monday's win. Fitz's father tweeted he believed the Cardinals will look away from his son this season in preparation for next winter's contract fight. That's absurd. Michael Floyd has arguably emerged as the Cardinals' best receiver, while John Brown, Ted Ginn, Andre Ellington, John Carlson and Rob Housler are all worthy targets. Fitz's days of being an alpha No. 1 receiver are gone, leaving him as a mid-range WR2 in fantasy leagues.


Source: Darren Urban on Twitter
Sep 9 - 3:55 PM

 
Yep was thinking same... If they tank his value and he has a 50-900-4 season he won't get big pay day and ARI can keep him. I hate all the games teams play. FFOOTBALL is ludacris to begin it's like the lotto. Don't trust experts and even a super team on paper can sometimes suck beyond belief. Fitz is fodder now.

 
FF Ninja said:
mbuehner said:
That ridiculous one handed catch in the endzone is who this guy is. Imo Fitzgerald has plenty of gas in the tank to be a quality WR2. But....

1) Bruce Arians is a weird dude. His offenses are not QB driven, theyre scheme driven. Carson Palmer isn't looking over the defense to decide where the ball is going, Arians is looking over his playsheet to decide where Palmer is going to put the ball. Its an old fashioned style compared to the high powered route-tree offenses we see these days. Not to say it cant be effective, but it takes a lot out of the hands of the guys on the field.

2) Carson Palmer can make every throw, but there's a reason he never lived up to his potential. In my opinion, he doesn't have the mental acuity great QBs have. I dont think he reads defenses particularly well, and (at least in this offense) he doesn't go through progressions. That means the ball is going where the play demands that it goes (see point 1), regardless of circumstance. Watch Palmers eyes when he drops back, he is just staring down the receiver he's going to. Whatever system you're running, thats a bad idea against NFL DBs.

Fitz is going to have big games, and very quiet games, and it has less to do with his physical tools right now and more to do with what Arians is trying to do that week. For better or for worse.
Click to expand...
Two reasons: Injury and situation.

Palmer was elite before injury. It won't show up in the stat sheet because rules and offenses have changed, but in his time, Palmer was top 3-4. Then he screwed up his elbow and elected not to have surgery. He came back to a Bengals team that was a dumpster fire. He had made Chad "can't learn a playbook" Johnson into a star and TJ "too slow" Houshmandzadeh into a fantasy WR2. After the injury/dumpster fire, he understandably said "screw it" and didn't want to play for Cincy anymore. Got traded to another dumpster fire. Actually put up really good stats after getting thrown into the fire the first couple weeks without learning the playbook. Then he came to Arizona and had no offensive line. Yet, I think his last 9 games (now last 10 games) are indicative of the quality of player he is. The guy is averaging over 8 ypa and 2:1 td to int ratio over his last 10 games in this system.

Palmer is a smart QB. The mental acuity thing you just pulled out of your ###.

Back to the topic, Fitz was injured last year and still caught 10 TDs and led the team in targets. He's going to be fine. Enjoy this buying opportunity, folks.
Click to expand...
Whatever guy. Palmers a superstar, world just doesnt know it. Thats mainlining koolaid this late in the game.

 
T with T said:
Yep was thinking same... If they tank his value and he has a 50-900-4 season he won't get big pay day and ARI can keep him. I hate all the games teams play. FFOOTBALL is ludacris to begin it's like the lotto. Don't trust experts and even a super team on paper can sometimes suck beyond belief. Fitz is fodder now.
Click to expand...
Wat? He's under contract for a huge amount of money for like the next 5 years.

 
mbuehner said:
FF Ninja said:
mbuehner said:
That ridiculous one handed catch in the endzone is who this guy is. Imo Fitzgerald has plenty of gas in the tank to be a quality WR2. But....

1) Bruce Arians is a weird dude. His offenses are not QB driven, theyre scheme driven. Carson Palmer isn't looking over the defense to decide where the ball is going, Arians is looking over his playsheet to decide where Palmer is going to put the ball. Its an old fashioned style compared to the high powered route-tree offenses we see these days. Not to say it cant be effective, but it takes a lot out of the hands of the guys on the field.

2) Carson Palmer can make every throw, but there's a reason he never lived up to his potential. In my opinion, he doesn't have the mental acuity great QBs have. I dont think he reads defenses particularly well, and (at least in this offense) he doesn't go through progressions. That means the ball is going where the play demands that it goes (see point 1), regardless of circumstance. Watch Palmers eyes when he drops back, he is just staring down the receiver he's going to. Whatever system you're running, thats a bad idea against NFL DBs.

Fitz is going to have big games, and very quiet games, and it has less to do with his physical tools right now and more to do with what Arians is trying to do that week. For better or for worse.
Click to expand...
Two reasons: Injury and situation.

Palmer was elite before injury. It won't show up in the stat sheet because rules and offenses have changed, but in his time, Palmer was top 3-4. Then he screwed up his elbow and elected not to have surgery. He came back to a Bengals team that was a dumpster fire. He had made Chad "can't learn a playbook" Johnson into a star and TJ "too slow" Houshmandzadeh into a fantasy WR2. After the injury/dumpster fire, he understandably said "screw it" and didn't want to play for Cincy anymore. Got traded to another dumpster fire. Actually put up really good stats after getting thrown into the fire the first couple weeks without learning the playbook. Then he came to Arizona and had no offensive line. Yet, I think his last 9 games (now last 10 games) are indicative of the quality of player he is. The guy is averaging over 8 ypa and 2:1 td to int ratio over his last 10 games in this system.

Palmer is a smart QB. The mental acuity thing you just pulled out of your ###.

Back to the topic, Fitz was injured last year and still caught 10 TDs and led the team in targets. He's going to be fine. Enjoy this buying opportunity, folks.
Click to expand...
Whatever guy. Palmers a superstar, world just doesnt know it. Thats mainlining koolaid this late in the game.
Click to expand...
Palmer has a career QB rating of 86. I think that's the beat indicator of his skills (for once actually).He has a 60%+ career completion percentage and a 7+ career YPA. His career TD/INT ratio is 1.4 to 1.

Those numbers scream above average, but not elite. Add in the fact he's 34, has had the knee and elbow issues and has not had success in the playoffs, and I think the assessment that Palmer is a good, but not great player, with little long term upside is spot on.

 
mbuehner said:
Whatever guy. Palmers a superstar, world just doesnt know it. Thats mainlining koolaid this late in the game.
Click to expand...
Here's Palmer's first 2-4 years (he didn't play as a rookie) compared to Peyton. He was the #1 fantasy QB his 2nd year and finished #5 and #9 the next two years before he got hurt.

Code: 
	Peyton Manning	qb	1999--2001	48	1031	1651	12679	7.68	85	53	997.6	Carson Palmer	qb	2004--2006	46	932	1461	10768	7.37	78	43	831.9
 
humpback said:
Larry Fitzgerald - WR - Cardinals

Speaking Tuesday, coach Bruce Arians said the Cardinals aren't going to make a concerted effort to force Larry Fitzgerald the ball.

"The days of targeting one receiver are gone," Arians said. "We don't design plays to have guys get the ball. ... Coverages dictate." It's a strong response to the scuttlebutt over Fitzgerald getting only four targets in Monday's win. Fitz's father tweeted he believed the Cardinals will look away from his son this season in preparation for next winter's contract fight. That's absurd. Michael Floyd has arguably emerged as the Cardinals' best receiver, while John Brown, Ted Ginn, Andre Ellington, John Carlson and Rob Housler are all worthy targets. Fitz's days of being an alpha No. 1 receiver are gone, leaving him as a mid-range WR2 in fantasy leagues.

Source: Darren Urban on Twitter

Sep 9 - 3:55 PM
Click to expand...
NFL.com take:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000392312/article/arians-cardinals-wont-force-ball-to-larry-fitzgerald

 
cstu said:
mbuehner said:
Whatever guy. Palmers a superstar, world just doesnt know it. Thats mainlining koolaid this late in the game.
Click to expand...
Here's Palmer's first 2-4 years (he didn't play as a rookie) compared to Peyton. He was the #1 fantasy QB his 2nd year and finished #5 and #9 the next two years before he got hurt.

Peyton Manning qb 1999--2001 48 1031 1651 12679 7.68 85 53 997.6 Carson Palmer qb 2004--2006 46 932 1461 10768 7.37 78 43 831.9
Click to expand...
Aaron Brooks qb 2001--2003 48 901 1604 10950 6.83 77 45 919.4

:rolleyes:

 
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humpback said:
T with T said:
Yep was thinking same... If they tank his value and he has a 50-900-4 season he won't get big pay day and ARI can keep him. I hate all the games teams play. FFOOTBALL is ludacris to begin it's like the lotto. Don't trust experts and even a super team on paper can sometimes suck beyond belief. Fitz is fodder now.
Click to expand...
Wat? He's under contract for a huge amount of money for like the next 5 years.
Click to expand...
what does that have to do with him being fodder and not trusting fantasy experts Chief?

 
T with T said:
humpback said:
T with T said:
Yep was thinking same... If they tank his value and he has a 50-900-4 season he won't get big pay day and ARI can keep him. I hate all the games teams play. FFOOTBALL is ludacris to begin it's like the lotto. Don't trust experts and even a super team on paper can sometimes suck beyond belief. Fitz is fodder now.
Click to expand...
Wat? He's under contract for a huge amount of money for like the next 5 years.
Click to expand...
what does that have to do with him being fodder and not trusting fantasy experts Chief?
Click to expand...
What does that have to do with your absurd reasoning, Kemosabe?

 
He put up decent numbers last year but I realize why I was so frustrated with him. He didn't show up during the playoffs. His numbers as my WR1 was subpar when it mattered...

 
mbuehner said:
FF Ninja said:
mbuehner said:
That ridiculous one handed catch in the endzone is who this guy is. Imo Fitzgerald has plenty of gas in the tank to be a quality WR2. But....

1) Bruce Arians is a weird dude. His offenses are not QB driven, theyre scheme driven. Carson Palmer isn't looking over the defense to decide where the ball is going, Arians is looking over his playsheet to decide where Palmer is going to put the ball. Its an old fashioned style compared to the high powered route-tree offenses we see these days. Not to say it cant be effective, but it takes a lot out of the hands of the guys on the field.

2) Carson Palmer can make every throw, but there's a reason he never lived up to his potential. In my opinion, he doesn't have the mental acuity great QBs have. I dont think he reads defenses particularly well, and (at least in this offense) he doesn't go through progressions. That means the ball is going where the play demands that it goes (see point 1), regardless of circumstance. Watch Palmers eyes when he drops back, he is just staring down the receiver he's going to. Whatever system you're running, thats a bad idea against NFL DBs.

Fitz is going to have big games, and very quiet games, and it has less to do with his physical tools right now and more to do with what Arians is trying to do that week. For better or for worse.
Click to expand...
Two reasons: Injury and situation.

Palmer was elite before injury. It won't show up in the stat sheet because rules and offenses have changed, but in his time, Palmer was top 3-4. Then he screwed up his elbow and elected not to have surgery. He came back to a Bengals team that was a dumpster fire. He had made Chad "can't learn a playbook" Johnson into a star and TJ "too slow" Houshmandzadeh into a fantasy WR2. After the injury/dumpster fire, he understandably said "screw it" and didn't want to play for Cincy anymore. Got traded to another dumpster fire. Actually put up really good stats after getting thrown into the fire the first couple weeks without learning the playbook. Then he came to Arizona and had no offensive line. Yet, I think his last 9 games (now last 10 games) are indicative of the quality of player he is. The guy is averaging over 8 ypa and 2:1 td to int ratio over his last 10 games in this system.

Palmer is a smart QB. The mental acuity thing you just pulled out of your ###.

Back to the topic, Fitz was injured last year and still caught 10 TDs and led the team in targets. He's going to be fine. Enjoy this buying opportunity, folks.
Click to expand...
Whatever guy. Palmers a superstar, world just doesnt know it. Thats mainlining koolaid this late in the game.
Click to expand...
I didn't say he is a superstar. I said you pulled the mental acuity thing out of your a$s. I think your head is up there, too, if you keep looking.

 
FF Ninja said:
mbuehner said:
FF Ninja said:
mbuehner said:
That ridiculous one handed catch in the endzone is who this guy is. Imo Fitzgerald has plenty of gas in the tank to be a quality WR2. But....

1) Bruce Arians is a weird dude. His offenses are not QB driven, theyre scheme driven. Carson Palmer isn't looking over the defense to decide where the ball is going, Arians is looking over his playsheet to decide where Palmer is going to put the ball. Its an old fashioned style compared to the high powered route-tree offenses we see these days. Not to say it cant be effective, but it takes a lot out of the hands of the guys on the field.

2) Carson Palmer can make every throw, but there's a reason he never lived up to his potential. In my opinion, he doesn't have the mental acuity great QBs have. I dont think he reads defenses particularly well, and (at least in this offense) he doesn't go through progressions. That means the ball is going where the play demands that it goes (see point 1), regardless of circumstance. Watch Palmers eyes when he drops back, he is just staring down the receiver he's going to. Whatever system you're running, thats a bad idea against NFL DBs.

Fitz is going to have big games, and very quiet games, and it has less to do with his physical tools right now and more to do with what Arians is trying to do that week. For better or for worse.
Click to expand...
Two reasons: Injury and situation.

Palmer was elite before injury. It won't show up in the stat sheet because rules and offenses have changed, but in his time, Palmer was top 3-4. Then he screwed up his elbow and elected not to have surgery. He came back to a Bengals team that was a dumpster fire. He had made Chad "can't learn a playbook" Johnson into a star and TJ "too slow" Houshmandzadeh into a fantasy WR2. After the injury/dumpster fire, he understandably said "screw it" and didn't want to play for Cincy anymore. Got traded to another dumpster fire. Actually put up really good stats after getting thrown into the fire the first couple weeks without learning the playbook. Then he came to Arizona and had no offensive line. Yet, I think his last 9 games (now last 10 games) are indicative of the quality of player he is. The guy is averaging over 8 ypa and 2:1 td to int ratio over his last 10 games in this system.

Palmer is a smart QB. The mental acuity thing you just pulled out of your ###.

Back to the topic, Fitz was injured last year and still caught 10 TDs and led the team in targets. He's going to be fine. Enjoy this buying opportunity, folks.
Click to expand...
Whatever guy. Palmers a superstar, world just doesnt know it. Thats mainlining koolaid this late in the game.
Click to expand...
I didn't say he is a superstar. I said you pulled the mental acuity thing out of your ###. I think your head is up there, too, if you keep looking.
Click to expand...
If by 'pulling it out of my ###' you mean 'suggesting that he doesnt read defenses well, and doesnt go through receiver progressions' I see your point.

 
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mbuehner said:
FF Ninja said:
mbuehner said:
FF Ninja said:
mbuehner said:
That ridiculous one handed catch in the endzone is who this guy is. Imo Fitzgerald has plenty of gas in the tank to be a quality WR2. But....

1) Bruce Arians is a weird dude. His offenses are not QB driven, theyre scheme driven. Carson Palmer isn't looking over the defense to decide where the ball is going, Arians is looking over his playsheet to decide where Palmer is going to put the ball. Its an old fashioned style compared to the high powered route-tree offenses we see these days. Not to say it cant be effective, but it takes a lot out of the hands of the guys on the field.

2) Carson Palmer can make every throw, but there's a reason he never lived up to his potential. In my opinion, he doesn't have the mental acuity great QBs have. I dont think he reads defenses particularly well, and (at least in this offense) he doesn't go through progressions. That means the ball is going where the play demands that it goes (see point 1), regardless of circumstance. Watch Palmers eyes when he drops back, he is just staring down the receiver he's going to. Whatever system you're running, thats a bad idea against NFL DBs.

Fitz is going to have big games, and very quiet games, and it has less to do with his physical tools right now and more to do with what Arians is trying to do that week. For better or for worse.
Click to expand...
Two reasons: Injury and situation.

Palmer was elite before injury. It won't show up in the stat sheet because rules and offenses have changed, but in his time, Palmer was top 3-4. Then he screwed up his elbow and elected not to have surgery. He came back to a Bengals team that was a dumpster fire. He had made Chad "can't learn a playbook" Johnson into a star and TJ "too slow" Houshmandzadeh into a fantasy WR2. After the injury/dumpster fire, he understandably said "screw it" and didn't want to play for Cincy anymore. Got traded to another dumpster fire. Actually put up really good stats after getting thrown into the fire the first couple weeks without learning the playbook. Then he came to Arizona and had no offensive line. Yet, I think his last 9 games (now last 10 games) are indicative of the quality of player he is. The guy is averaging over 8 ypa and 2:1 td to int ratio over his last 10 games in this system.

Palmer is a smart QB. The mental acuity thing you just pulled out of your ###.

Back to the topic, Fitz was injured last year and still caught 10 TDs and led the team in targets. He's going to be fine. Enjoy this buying opportunity, folks.
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Whatever guy. Palmers a superstar, world just doesnt know it. Thats mainlining koolaid this late in the game.
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I didn't say he is a superstar. I said you pulled the mental acuity thing out of your ###. I think your head is up there, too, if you keep looking.
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If by 'pulling it out of my ###' you mean 'suggesting that he doesnt read defenses well, and doesnt go through receiver progressions' I see your point.
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When the suggestion is based off of nothing, then yeah, that's exactly what I meant. Maybe you think Fitzgerald was his #5 option on every play and he never threw to him because he doesn't go through his progressions. However, someone intelligent might think that Fitz was actually a top option and the reason he didn't throw to him was because Palmer saw that Fitz was covered and thus went on to the next option in his progression.

Logic is tough for some people.

 
FF Ninja said:
mbuehner said:
FF Ninja said:
mbuehner said:
FF Ninja said:
mbuehner said:
That ridiculous one handed catch in the endzone is who this guy is. Imo Fitzgerald has plenty of gas in the tank to be a quality WR2. But....

1) Bruce Arians is a weird dude. His offenses are not QB driven, theyre scheme driven. Carson Palmer isn't looking over the defense to decide where the ball is going, Arians is looking over his playsheet to decide where Palmer is going to put the ball. Its an old fashioned style compared to the high powered route-tree offenses we see these days. Not to say it cant be effective, but it takes a lot out of the hands of the guys on the field.

2) Carson Palmer can make every throw, but there's a reason he never lived up to his potential. In my opinion, he doesn't have the mental acuity great QBs have. I dont think he reads defenses particularly well, and (at least in this offense) he doesn't go through progressions. That means the ball is going where the play demands that it goes (see point 1), regardless of circumstance. Watch Palmers eyes when he drops back, he is just staring down the receiver he's going to. Whatever system you're running, thats a bad idea against NFL DBs.

Fitz is going to have big games, and very quiet games, and it has less to do with his physical tools right now and more to do with what Arians is trying to do that week. For better or for worse.
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Two reasons: Injury and situation.

Palmer was elite before injury. It won't show up in the stat sheet because rules and offenses have changed, but in his time, Palmer was top 3-4. Then he screwed up his elbow and elected not to have surgery. He came back to a Bengals team that was a dumpster fire. He had made Chad "can't learn a playbook" Johnson into a star and TJ "too slow" Houshmandzadeh into a fantasy WR2. After the injury/dumpster fire, he understandably said "screw it" and didn't want to play for Cincy anymore. Got traded to another dumpster fire. Actually put up really good stats after getting thrown into the fire the first couple weeks without learning the playbook. Then he came to Arizona and had no offensive line. Yet, I think his last 9 games (now last 10 games) are indicative of the quality of player he is. The guy is averaging over 8 ypa and 2:1 td to int ratio over his last 10 games in this system.

Palmer is a smart QB. The mental acuity thing you just pulled out of your ###.

Back to the topic, Fitz was injured last year and still caught 10 TDs and led the team in targets. He's going to be fine. Enjoy this buying opportunity, folks.
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Whatever guy. Palmers a superstar, world just doesnt know it. Thats mainlining koolaid this late in the game.
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I didn't say he is a superstar. I said you pulled the mental acuity thing out of your ###. I think your head is up there, too, if you keep looking.
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If by 'pulling it out of my ###' you mean 'suggesting that he doesnt read defenses well, and doesnt go through receiver progressions' I see your point.
Click to expand...
When the suggestion is based off of nothing, then yeah, that's exactly what I meant. Maybe you think Fitzgerald was his #5 option on every play and he never threw to him because he doesn't go through his progressions. However, someone intelligent might think that Fitz was actually a top option and the reason he didn't throw to him was because Palmer saw that Fitz was covered and thus went on to the next option in his progression.

Logic is tough for some people.
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Unless he could see Fitz without looking at him, I dont see how. Go watch the tape sometime.

 
mbuehner said:
Unless he could see Fitz without looking at him, I dont see how. Go watch the tape sometime.
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Can I borrow your VHS player? I watched the game... as a Fitz owner. I'm well aware of when he looked to Larry's side of the field.

Palmer's last 10 games have been very, very good. Over 8 ypa and a 2:1 TD:INT ratio. Only a few guys fit into that category. Questioning his mental acuity and ability to go through his progressions seems a bit silly. He was playing behind PFF's 32nd ranked pass blocking line last year. He probably didn't have time to get to that 4th or 5th option, but he still managed to put up very good numbers once the team got comfortable with Arians' offense.

 
SameSongNDance said:
Faust said:
Larry Fitzgerald limited by knee injury in opener:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000392988/article/larry-fitzgerald-limited-by-knee-injury-in-opener
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Honestly he didn't look very limited to me. He did sit out a few offensive snaps but he didn't look visibly effected by any type of injury when on the field/running routes. It smells like an excuse to me, which probably is a good thing.
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Agreed. Arian's seems to be a little "different", not sure if that's good or bad. Some of his comments seem strange, like this one from that link:

"I learned my lesson last year not to ask (Larry) to do things in a game that you're not practicing," Arians said, via the team's official website. "It's not fair to the quarterback either."
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It says he missed practice Tuesday but participated in full the rest of the way, and he had all of last season and this camp/preseason to practice, not to mention he's an 11 year vet and one of the most talented WRs in the game so he probably doesn't need a ton of practice to get a handle on things.

 
Looks like Jimmie Ward, the guy who let Marshall run all over him in the RZ last week if going to covering Fitz in the slot this week. Last year Fitz absolutely dominated SF going for 6/117/1 and 6/113/0 vs. them in the their two match-ups. Seems like a good start to me. Thoughts?

 
SameSongNDance said:
Looks like Jimmie Ward, the guy who let Marshall run all over him in the RZ last week if going to covering Fitz in the slot this week. Last year Fitz absolutely dominated SF going for 6/117/1 and 6/113/0 vs. them in the their two match-ups. Seems like a good start to me. Thoughts?
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Actionable info. Start em. He missed a TD last week by a few inches and I think Stanton is slinging again.

 
He should be a good play. You have to know what to expect (7/114/1 would be nice. 12/174/2 would be unreasonable).

But overall it's a lot better than the bad first week.

Stanton has never seemed shy of throwing in there so I think he has some upside. THe Niners aren't the niners right now.

 
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i just rewatched his plays. he was wide open for an easy td on the play before he was inches from the gl. they called illegal contact and i guess the db held him up just enough to throw off the timing. i dunno, it sure seemed like stanton shoulda made a better throw.

stanton also targeted him when he was pretty heavily covered like 6 other plays. he had 26 yard gain called back on an oline penalty. he was wide open. it seems that he is able to get open against zone pretty easily but struggles getting separation when covered.

so the bad news is that i dont think he beat man coverage a single time. the good news is that stanton still threw it to him despite no separation and he proly doesnt need to be open to make catches.

 
I can't believe these guys at nfl fantasy live get paid to give out advice. They're reasoning for sitting Fitz this week, "Is Stanton playing? Well there's your answer". How could you only look at the surface of the situation and pass judgement, not to mention that it looks like Stanton is a boon to Fitz's value.

 
SameSongNDance said:
I can't believe these guys at nfl fantasy live get paid to give out advice. They're reasoning for sitting Fitz this week, "Is Stanton playing? Well there's your answer". How could you only look at the surface of the situation and pass judgement, not to mention that it looks like Stanton is a boon to Fitz's value.
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:goodposting: when Stanton is in looks like he targets him almost like Cutler to Marshall. Palmer seemed to favor Floyd. I have a sneaky feeling Fitz has a good game, he is def due.

 
Sat him this week and glad I did. Will be dropping him on Monday.

Old and slow - not a good combination for a WR in the NFL.

 
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After those hits on Stanton and then the pop he took on that first down play did anyone see Fitz come down the line and absolutely lay into #94 the DL for the 49ers? Hit him as hard as he could.

 
Rotoworld:

Larry Fitzgerald secured 6-of-6 targets for 98 yards and a touchdown in the Cardinals' Week 6 win over the Redskins.

Fitzgerald also had a long second-quarter catch negated by a hold on OL Ted Larsen back at the line of scrimmage. His touchdown came from 24 yards out late in the second quarter, to give Arizona a 14-10 halftime lead. The TD was Fitzgerald's first of the year. Fitz continued to rip off second-half catches against overmatched Redskins slot CB Bashaud Breeland, giving the rookie all kinds of fits. Essentially an Anquan Boldin-type player at this stage of his career, Fitzgerald is now relying more on power and crisp routes than "separation" skills. He'll be a quality WR3 for as long as Carson Palmer's shoulder holds up. The Cardinals face the Raiders next.

Oct 12 - 8:32 PM
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