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Buy this guy imho.

Receiving options have thinned obviously and hilton has asserted himself sufficient to draw some doubles. The colt running game is a shambles and fleener is often split wide. He made a great catch against double team for a 2pt conversion last week and was wide wide open on another.

This guy has serious red zone upside and yet the last few mediocre weeks have kept his perceived value down. I think he lights it up this weekend against saint louis... so buy now.

Thoughts?

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I think there's talent and potential but he's beyond frustrating. Either the Colts don't want to use him more or he's not doing enough to make himself a larger part of the passing game I don't know but I bought into the upside with him this year and so far he's basically been a decent TE2 and nothing more.

He averaged 4.7 targets per game going into the bye. Coming out of the bye and with Wayne gone there was an expectation among some (myself included) that his role would grow. The result? 5 targets against the Texans. So basically the status quo.

Again, I think there is some upside but I'd feel a whole lot better about the guy if we started seeing some evidence on the field that his role is going to be enhanced. As it is, he's more of a spot starter when the matchup is right and even then you have to worry that he's going to come up real small since he's had three games with 2 receptions or less and has only topped 3 receptions in a game three times the whole year and has been held under 40 yards receiving in every game but three.

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I 100% agree, and if I could find someone in dynasty that still believed, I'd sell pretty quickly.

I just don't see it -- on paper it makes sense, but on the field he disappoints. Wait till Allen comes back next year...

Get out now IMO.

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Let's not forget that the Texans have a pretty good pass D.

He's definitely been hot/cold this season, but I'm not ready to jump ship yet.

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Impossible to sell even though he's rostered everywhere. Basically he's on the tier of TE's just a smidge above the Scott Chandlers, Garrett Grahams, and maybe Tim Wrights of the fantasy football world. Nobody considers him a clear upgrade. That's what inspires trade talks. Does this guy upgrade my position? If the answer is no, or not clear, then the guy has no value.

He's had some decent weeks of production and with Wayne out, he was supposed to see a bump in targets. But that has not materialized. Watching the games, he lacks the route running and clear separation to expect Luck to look his way often. Not a terrible TE, but certainly a mediocre one. Talent wise, I'd put him right there with the Tony Fasano's of the world. The only thing that boosts his value is his QB and the loss of the starting WR1, Wayne. You can try to sell him on that angle, but anyone watching the actual games knows that sales schtick is all wrong.

Certainly has value as a spot starter, and worth keeping on your bench, but not a tradeable asset.

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Let's not forget that the Texans have a pretty good pass D.

He's definitely been hot/cold this season, but I'm not ready to jump ship yet.

I'm putting his numbers in perspective, he's on pace for 50/600/6. That's on par with what a lot of good TE's did in their 2nd year - Gonzo, Vernon Davis, Rudolph, Daniels, Finley.

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Impossible to sell even though he's rostered everywhere. Basically he's on the tier of TE's just a smidge above the Scott Chandlers, Garrett Grahams, and maybe Tim Wrights of the fantasy football world. Nobody considers him a clear upgrade. That's what inspires trade talks. Does this guy upgrade my position? If the answer is no, or not clear, then the guy has no value.

He's had some decent weeks of production and with Wayne out, he was supposed to see a bump in targets. But that has not materialized. Watching the games, he lacks the route running and clear separation to expect Luck to look his way often. Not a terrible TE, but certainly a mediocre one. Talent wise, I'd put him right there with the Tony Fasano's of the world. The only thing that boosts his value is his QB and the loss of the starting WR1, Wayne. You can try to sell him on that angle, but anyone watching the actual games knows that sales schtick is all wrong.

Certainly has value as a spot starter, and worth keeping on your bench, but not a tradeable asset.

Agree with just about all of this although I'd much rather have Wright (a clear ascending talent) and I think Fleener is more talented than someone like Fasano.

But you're right, there's no selling point here. It's all hope right now. There's nothing in terms of the production that would lead anyone to think big things are forthcoming. I was hoping to see an increased role without Wayne but that wasn't the case at all. Just more of the same.

Edited by packersfan

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Let's not forget that the Texans have a pretty good pass D.

He's definitely been hot/cold this season, but I'm not ready to jump ship yet.

I'm putting his numbers in perspective, he's on pace for 50/600/6. That's on par with what a lot of good TE's did in their 2nd year - Gonzo, Vernon Davis, Rudolph, Daniels, Finley.

That is a good perspective and I need to keep that in mind. My issue is when you watch him, he seems to play without confidence. Additionally, he doesn't appear overly strong on running precise routes (rounding them off in many cases). Both of those are fixable however, but I would have certainly liked to see him get a strong grasp on the #1TE for Indy this year while Allen was out.

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He's only played one game without Wayne and got 60 yards abd a 2pt conversion... not seeing why that single datapoint is conclusive that the season will be "more of the same".

I see a young talent on a competent pass-happy offense with not much competition for targets... and a serious red zone threat with size/reach/hands. Sounds like money to me (even if separation and tacklebreaking are mediocre).

My guess is mid TE1 down the stretch... but I suppose we'll see!

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I have been disappointed as a Fleener owner, but agree with the mindset above, which is that Fleener is only in his second year and still holds a lot of potential. What worries me most is that Luck hardly ever looks for him, at least during the games I have watched. I thought Fleener would be Luck's security blanket since they had been together for so long, but that doesn't seem like it's the case yet. It may never happen if Luck still doesn't trust him after all their background. I'm holding in a 12 Team, 19 player, PPR, No TE, Start 3WR Dynasty league, but have thought about cutting him.

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He's only played one game without Wayne and got 60 yards abd a 2pt conversion... not seeing why that single datapoint is conclusive that the season will be "more of the same".

`

His targets didn't change despite Wayne being out. For me, that's the issue.

Yes it was just one game and he was reasonably productive. However, I stand by what I said that until we see evidence on the field that his role is growing the idea that he'll start delivering more production is based entirely on hope. As a Fleener owner, I'm hoping for the best. I just wish I was seeing something on the field that I could hang my hat on in terms of an increased role.

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Sure PF, I understand where you're coming from.

I'm just saying for non-owners in redraft ... go get him now, before the increased production :)

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I've been trying to trade him for an early/mid 2nd to championship contenders which I can't even get... Seems crazy to me that I can't manage to get that because of his opportunity without Wayne and Trent sucking.

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I own Fleener and would like to see him break out, unfortunately almost all of his production last week came on the first offensive play of the game where he was left wide open on play action after faking like he was gonna stay in and block. I agree with the posters above who have noted that he is unable to get good separation on his breaks, he just cant get open unless he's going against some sort of zone. Pretty decent hands for the most part though. Not only that but the Colts are in the bottom 5 in the league in passing attempts. Just doesn't seem like the breakout is coming this year, though I hope I'm wrong

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Let's not forget that the Texans have a pretty good pass D.

He's definitely been hot/cold this season, but I'm not ready to jump ship yet.

I'm putting his numbers in perspective, he's on pace for 50/600/6. That's on par with what a lot of good TE's did in their 2nd year - Gonzo, Vernon Davis, Rudolph, Daniels, Finley.

That's kind of how I see it. Most fantasy stud TE's make a major leap in year two vs year one production. Granted Fleener was hurt a lot of last year but right now he's looking like a good bet to double up on last years numbers so he's making the progress you normally need to see out of a second year TE.

I've noticed a lot of people bemoaning the fact they assumed Wayne's absence would lead to more usage and now concluding maybe not. . It was one game. I think over the course of the season we will see Wayne's absence be a positive for Fleener. Wayne should return next season but he'll be 35 coming off an ACL so likely not a player commanding over 25% of the targets any longer.

Along those lines it's assumed Dewayne Allen being out should benefit Fleener. Not so sure about that as the plan was for a 2 TE offense to be major part of what they run. In fact not sure the loss of Allen is helping Fleener at all as I think Allen's absence has forced him into block much more. Which by the way is big reason I think he did not have such a great game last week despite Wayne being out as on a lot of obvious passing downs he remained in as a blocker.

Fleener's main issue in my opinion is he needs to get stronger. I think this is why he struggles with getting separation, he struggles when defenders get their hands on him.

One major reason I'm not giving up on him is Jordan Cameron. Same faults in Fleener's game I noticed in Cameron's game last year. Despite his size/speed Cameron could not separate and a lot of that had to do with getting physically overmatched. Similar to Fleener now that was Cameron's second year and while I'm sure a ton of his improvement has to do with the TE friendly scheme in this his third year he's obviously a better looking player.

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I'm not a psychologist but this guy has horrible body language. He does not appear confident out there

I bet his confidence is up after 8 catches on 10 targets for 107 yards.

  • Like 1

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18.7 pts in PPR. Nice way to start a week. Never would have started him if it weren't for Tony Gonzalez not practicing. Kind of a panic move that paid off. Cherry on top is that my opponent had Delanie Walker on his bench and his 25.1 pts.

The playcalling was Fleener's friend last night. Running a lot of misdirection plays. I still think he's just an average TE, but he looks all-world compared to the blocking TE Weslye Saunders. Laughed out loud when Mayock said Saunders had feet for hands on one of his drops.

Hilton got bracket coverage last night and the defense fed him a lot of short stuff underneath. They were not going to allow Hilton to get behind them. DHB was AWOL again. What's this I keep hearing about some Brazil guy? Fleener carried this team in the second half when they where in comeback mode. His poor blocking in the first half cost him some PT, but once they committed to slinging it around, Fleener showed what he is capable of. Colts need to promote Brown to lead tailback, as Richardson is a liability and allows teams to get off to quick leads. The whole offense is more fluid, and it helps Fleener find space.

I don't know if that changes Fleener's status going forward. Most view him as an upside TE2. The lack of targets was what everyone criticized him for. 10 targets is what we all expected when Reggie Wayne went down. We'll see soon enough if this was an outlier or a trend. But unless Tony G is the picture of health, I'm starting Fleener from here on out.

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At one point last year Brazill was ahead of Hilton on the depth chart. He is a head case who is working his way out of the dog house for violating the league's drug policy.

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Feeling good about buying Fleener last week. His performance last night help offset my opponent starting CJ, who was invisible in the second half.

Hopefully the Colts lean on Fleener down the stretch while TY draws coverage. Luck looked more and more comfortable passing to him last night as the game went on.

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Personally, I'd still sell high. Last night was the perfect storm for Fleener (as this season has been pretty much). While he produced last night, he's been largely inconsistent this season (and that's kind of putting it nicely). I think the bar for TEs has been raised around the league as a whole, and Fleener just doesn't seem to have *it* when I watch him play. Hard to quantify, but I'd take advantage of this game and sell high.

Next season you've likely got a beefed up O-line, Wayne returning from injury, Hilton emerging even more, Trent (I pray) returning lighter and quicker (WTF happened to him), and Allen returning. If Fleener can't take over as a TE1 in the current situation (which last night was the first time we've seen it this season) then it's just not going to happen.

I tried to trade him in my 16-teamer and couldn't get so much as a 3rd rounder for him... just don't see it working out personally.

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I agree about the tip for selling high. Unfortunately, trade deadline in our league is this Sunday at 1PM and you aren't allowed to trade Thursday players. But even if I could trade, I scoured the league rosters looking for weak TE teams. I pitched Fleener to the Olsen team, and the Olsen owner told me would never bench him for Fleener. That was before last night, so who knows if he changes his mind. But the perception is Fleener is not reliable (as you say). Now that the trade deadline is passed, all I can do is root him on. In one league, I have him buried as my TE3 behind Gronk and Reed.

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I agree with the comments that I just can't see it coming together for him long term. Sell in dynasty if you can.

Luckily, I own him in a keep 2 and 100 yards is a great bye week fill-in for Witten.

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I've been waiting for actual signs on the field that Fleener's role was going to grow. I'd say 20 targets the last two games more than qualifies. Last night was totally unexpected but for the first time we're seeing actual reasons for optimism based on an expanding role offensively. Given how awful the WRs are other than Hilton there's definitely reason to believe Fleener will continue to be a top option in the passing game and perhaps the consistent No. 2 option behind Hilton.

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packersfan, I agree with you that maybe he could be a consistent No. 2 option behind Hilton. It's really the 64 million dollar question that everyone's been asking once Reggie Wayne went down to injury. Who would be the guy to step up?

If it is Fleener, I think the coaching staff has to switch up the starting RB situation. Brown as a starter takes advantage of small crevices and squirts through holes that Richardson's wide body can't get through. It's like he hits a brick wall. The Colts bring in the blocking TE and Fleener disappears with Richardson as the lead back. But get him out of there, and Fleener flourishes. The LB's come up and bite really hard on Brown's misdirection play action. Something Richardson can't get the defense to do. I tie Fleener's production directly to Brown's PT.

Edited by Raiderfan32904

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Personally, I'd still sell high. Last night was the perfect storm for Fleener (as this season has been pretty much). While he produced last night, he's been largely inconsistent this season (and that's kind of putting it nicely). I think the bar for TEs has been raised around the league as a whole, and Fleener just doesn't seem to have *it* when I watch him play. Hard to quantify, but I'd take advantage of this game and sell high.

Next season you've likely got a beefed up O-line, Wayne returning from injury, Hilton emerging even more, Trent (I pray) returning lighter and quicker (WTF happened to him), and Allen returning. If Fleener can't take over as a TE1 in the current situation (which last night was the first time we've seen it this season) then it's just not going to happen.

I tried to trade him in my 16-teamer and couldn't get so much as a 3rd rounder for him... just don't see it working out personally.

:goodposting:

Fleener is definitely going to have games where he gets targeted often and produces. Unfortunately I think those games will be mixed in with a bunch of duds. Nothing worse than a guy who you never know when it's safe to start.

Also, from what I have watched he lacks toughness. Afraid to go across the middle. Shys away from contact. Even went to defend Luck on a late hit last night and approached the defender like a pu**y.

He is talented, but I'm not a fan. I just got him in a trade and immediately flipped him and a wr for Eifert. Not my kind of player.

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If it is Fleener, I think the coaching staff has to switch up the starting RB situation. Brown as a starter takes advantage of small crevices and squirts through holes that Richardson's wide body can't get through. It's like he hits a brick wall. The Colts bring in the blocking TE and Fleener disappears with Richardson as the lead back. But get him out of there, and Fleener flourishes. The LB's come up and bite really hard on Brown's misdirection play action. Something Richardson can't get the defense to do. I tie Fleener's production directly to Brown's PT.

Great analysis, I fully agree. I found myself thinking the same thing late in the game last night.

Edited by Resident A

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Personally, I don't think he looked great at all, but almost seems like he may become the de facto WR2 - I am going to stay with him because I doubt I will find anything with a better combo of talent/opportunity on waivers.

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It's interesting to see people say they didn't think he looked good last night. I thought he looked great, by far the best I've ever seen from him. He made some tough catches (drops have been a problem) and he made yards after the catch (good play call designs to get him in space). He's not a physical specimen like guys such as Graham, Gronk or Julius Thomas and he does lumber a bit. But I thought he moved well and I was most encouraged by seeing him catch every catchable pass thrown his direction. I think that's particularly huge in terms of building his confidence as well as the confidence of Luck and Hamilton to call his number more frequently.

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Yeah, my post reads more negatively than I intended - basically just meant he does not look like he is going to blow us away like we may have thought after seeing the crazy 40 time and the reunion with his college QB. I agree, was definitely nice to not see the drops.

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There seemed to be a conscious decision starting late in the second quarter to get him the ball moving in space. There were still the little 5-yard routes where he stops and turns and Luck throws it to him. But there seemed to be more crossing routes and things of that nature for him. Maybe that was a wrong impression and they've been there all along but it seemed like last night they tried to do more things to get him the ability to make plays after the catch. That it worked so well would hopefully provide incentive for Hamilton to keep doing it or maybe even do more.

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It's interesting to see people say they didn't think he looked good last night. I thought he looked great, by far the best I've ever seen from him. He made some tough catches (drops have been a problem) and he made yards after the catch (good play call designs to get him in space). He's not a physical specimen like guys such as Graham, Gronk or Julius Thomas and he does lumber a bit. But I thought he moved well and I was most encouraged by seeing him catch every catchable pass thrown his direction. I think that's particularly huge in terms of building his confidence as well as the confidence of Luck and Hamilton to call his number more frequently.

I don't remember any tough catches. They were NFL starting quality catches for sure, so I'll give the guy some credit. Certainly an improvement in focus from other games where he had some bad dropsies. But he got the benefit of catching a lot of throws in space. Credit Pep's playcalling and I think the fact they were in early 3rd quarter garbage time helped. I don't trust that we'll see Fleener featured like that unless the Colts get into a big deficit again. If they get ahead, Fleener would all but disappear, is what I fear.

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packersfan, I agree with you that maybe he could be a consistent No. 2 option behind Hilton. It's really the 64 million dollar question that everyone's been asking once Reggie Wayne went down to injury. Who would be the guy to step up?

If it is Fleener, I think the coaching staff has to switch up the starting RB situation. Brown as a starter takes advantage of small crevices and squirts through holes that Richardson's wide body can't get through. It's like he hits a brick wall. The Colts bring in the blocking TE and Fleener disappears with Richardson as the lead back. But get him out of there, and Fleener flourishes. The LB's come up and bite really hard on Brown's misdirection play action. Something Richardson can't get the defense to do. I tie Fleener's production directly to Brown's PT.

I disagree. Despite his size, Richardson has displayed an impressive ability to squirt through small crevices. Check the tape. :stirspot:

Edited by zftcg

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It's interesting to see people say they didn't think he looked good last night. I thought he looked great, by far the best I've ever seen from him. He made some tough catches (drops have been a problem) and he made yards after the catch (good play call designs to get him in space). He's not a physical specimen like guys such as Graham, Gronk or Julius Thomas and he does lumber a bit. But I thought he moved well and I was most encouraged by seeing him catch every catchable pass thrown his direction. I think that's particularly huge in terms of building his confidence as well as the confidence of Luck and Hamilton to call his number more frequently.

I don't remember any tough catches.

I recall 2-3 catches that he made in traffic. We may be disagreeing over semantics in terms of how "tough" they were but for a guy who has had problems with drops I thought it was encouraging that he caught every catchable pass thrown his direction.

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Credit Pep's playcalling and I think the fact they were in early 3rd quarter garbage time helped. I don't trust that we'll see Fleener featured like that unless the Colts get into a big deficit again. If they get ahead, Fleener would all but disappear, is what I fear.

You do realize he had 4 catches for 66 yards after the Colts had taken the lead right?

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Credit Pep's playcalling and I think the fact they were in early 3rd quarter garbage time helped. I don't trust that we'll see Fleener featured like that unless the Colts get into a big deficit again. If they get ahead, Fleener would all but disappear, is what I fear.

You do realize he had 4 catches for 66 yards after the Colts had taken the lead right?

Yeah, but the switch to Brown in the second half was all predicated on Richardson's ineffectiveness in the first half. The second half game plan to catch up carried over once Pep saw how it was working. Plus, it was a tight game until the end. They really didn't have the luxury to sit on the ball. The game plan doesn't just go back to run heavy once you catch your opponent. The second half adjustment of Brown in and TRich out, and Pep's playcalling did wonders to get Fleener in space. If they go back to Richardson for 2 yards and a cloud of dust to start the next game, Fleener will disappear again. Until they go back into catchup mode.

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Credit Pep's playcalling and I think the fact they were in early 3rd quarter garbage time helped. I don't trust that we'll see Fleener featured like that unless the Colts get into a big deficit again. If they get ahead, Fleener would all but disappear, is what I fear.

You do realize he had 4 catches for 66 yards after the Colts had taken the lead right?

Yeah, but the switch to Brown in the second half was all predicated on Richardson's ineffectiveness in the first half. The second half game plan to catch up carried over once Pep saw how it was working. Plus, it was a tight game until the end. They really didn't have the luxury to sit on the ball. The game plan doesn't just go back to run heavy once you catch your opponent. The second half adjustment of Brown in and TRich out, and Pep's playcalling did wonders to get Fleener in space. If they go back to Richardson for 2 yards and a cloud of dust to start the next game, Fleener will disappear again. Until they go back into catchup mode.

You think with the state of the Colt's defense they are going to blowout a lot of teams? I don't. IMO most of their games will be close, or they will be trailing, like last night. I don't see them getting way ahead and running clock very often.

Edited by Shanahanigans

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For those who (like me) missed out on starting Fleener this week, he's got a dream match-up next Sunday vs Arizona, which gives up the most points to fantasy TEs. Unless Mike Brown absolutely blows up in my flex spot this weekend, I'll be rolling with Coby.

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No idea what to think about Fleener's future but here is the list of last 15 TE's who had 50-75 catches their second year.

          NAME 	    POS 	YR 	AGE 	EXP 	G 	REC 	RECYD 	YD/REC 	RECTD 	FANT PT1	Coby Fleener	te	2013	25	2	16	52	608	11.69	4	84.82	Kyle Rudolph	te	2012	23	2	16	53	493	9.30	9	103.33	Ed Dickson	te	2011	24	2	16	54	528	9.78	5	82.84	Gresham 	te	2011	23	2	14	56	596	10.64	6	95.65	Pettigrew	te	2010	25	2	16	71	722	10.17	4	96.26	John Carlson	te	2009	25	2	16	51	574	11.25	7	99.47	Finley  	te	2009	22	2	13	55	676	12.29	5	97.68	Zach Miller	te	2008	23	2	16	56	778	13.89	1	83.89	Greg Olsen	te	2008	23	2	16	54	574	10.63	5	87.410	Owen Daniels	te	2007	25	2	16	63	768	12.19	3	94.811	Vernon Davis	te	2007	23	2	14	52	509	9.79	4	74.912	Chris Cooley	te	2005	23	2	16	71	774	10.90	7	119.413	Ben Troupe	te	2005	23	2	15	55	530	9.64	4	77.014	Todd Heap	te	2002	22	2	16	68	836	12.29	6	123.415	Tony Gonzalez	te	1998	22	2	16	59	621	10.53	2	74.1
Edited by cstu

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Stats of the Day: Coby Fleener’s Sophomore Leap

Aided by playing in four more games, Coby Fleener doubled each of his statistics from his rookie season during his second year in the NFL. Fleener went from 26 catches to 52, 281 yards to 608 and two touchdowns to four.

Fleener also went from a +.04 Pro Football Focus grade during his rookie season to a +2.1 in 2013, and went from three drops in 29 attempts to one drop in 53 chances.

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Still think he's a bum?

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Rotoworld:

The Colts are expected to "spread the field" with more "three- and four-receiver formations" this season.

It's the natural evolution for Indianapolis after the team invested big money in Andre Johnson and a first-round pick in Phillip Dorsett, with T.Y. Hilton and Donte Moncrief already on the roster. The biggest loser figures to be No. 2 tight end Coby Fleener, whose playing time seems certain to drop. Dwayne Allen's role should be secure because he is so valuable as a blocker, an especially necessary attribute on a team with a sub-par offensive line.
Jul 9 - 3:44 PM

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Allen (ankle) appears unlikely to face the Titans, setting up Fleener for streamer TE1 and DFS usage. In Allen's three missed games last season, Fleener posted receiving lines of 2-28, 4-127-2, and 5-56-2. Fleener added a 7-144 number in a Week 11 game against the Patriots where Allen left early. Fleener scored three TDs in last year's two games against the Titans.

Pagano on getting the TEs more involved..

“That’s on us,” said Pagano Wednesday. “We’ve got to do a better job in getting them involved.”

“We’re a team,” replied Pagano regarding who’s to blame. “It’s on the horseshoe. Put it on the ‘shoe. The ‘shoe got to get them involved.”

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Dwayne Allen out but so is Luck. Hasselbeck has to lean on someone and it will probably be the short passing game. Fleener might be a sneaky good play.

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Dwayne Allen out but so is Luck. Hasselbeck has to lean on someone and it will probably be the short passing game. Fleener might be a sneaky good play.

:towelwave:

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