Henry Ford

The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads

6,019 posts in this topic

On 6/7/2018 at 8:22 AM, apalmer said:

Amazingly, even on the day he retired, the 91-year-old was as sharp as a tack.  He had "scaled back" to only working 10:30 to 5:00 every day, mostly because he had two bad knees (both had been replaced, but were still a problem), so he walked with 2 canes ("wheelchair" was considered a dirty word) and it took him forever to get showered and dressed.  It also took him nearly 20 minutes to walk the 50 yards from the parking garage to our office entrance.  In his earlier days, he had been quite an athlete: went to The Ohio State University on a football scholarship (as a tight end), was a force in pickup basketball and volleyball games at the "Y" well into his 50's and loved whitewater rafting. I long suspected that once he hit 75 or 80 he developed "Bear Bryant/Joe Paterno Syndrome"--with his wife in a nursing home and his body not able to do the things he loved, he had nothing but work to live for and knew that he would not last long after he retired. Like you, I've promised myself that will not be me.

He sounds like an amazing lawyer, but I’m even more so impressed that he apparently kept up with the changing technology. I’m assuming he adapted to email, online case management, and online research just fine?

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A lot of lawyers work until they die.  I’m hoping to turn my firm over to some young lawyers and just make a percentage while they grind.

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15 hours ago, Zow said:

He sounds like an amazing lawyer, but I’m even more so impressed that he apparently kept up with the changing technology. I’m assuming he adapted to email, online case management, and online research just fine?

Uh, no.  His email went to his secretary's inbox.  Case management really wasn't an issue since all he did was real estate, estate work and zoning/subdivision law for local municipalities.  His knees pretty much kept him out of court for the last 10 years or so, meaning any court cases got handed off to me.  His research was still via books,  with me (usually) doing any online updating.  

 

The funny thing is that our two firms merged back in 2001, and one of the reasons was that his then partners were looking for someone whose expertise overlapped with his so that "when he retires in a year or two, we'll have you to take over his work".

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6 minutes ago, apalmer said:

Uh, no.  His email went to his secretary's inbox.  Case management really wasn't an issue since all he did was real estate, estate work and zoning/subdivision law for local municipalities.  His knees pretty much kept him out of court for the last 10 years or so, meaning any court cases got handed off to me.  His research was still via books,  with me (usually) doing any online updating.  

 

The funny thing is that our two firms merged back in 2001, and one of the reasons was that his then partners were looking for someone whose expertise overlapped with his so that "when he retires in a year or two, we'll have you to take over his work".

Ah. 

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Crazy judgment collection story:

Won a judgment in federal court against a vexatious lawyer representing himself pro se: $1 million in damages and $500,000 in attorneys fees. He was disbarred during the litigation, by the way. Had him declared a vexatious litigant by the court after a bunch of shenanigans: he actually sued me personally in the state court where we were litigating (a state far from where I live). Having someone declared a vexatious litigant and imposing filing restrictions, etc., on them is rare in federal court. A few months after the judgment he dies (details are too crazy to go into) and now I am dealing with his estate to collect. Of course, the estate conveniently left my client and the judgment out of the list of creditors. Sometimes it isnt enough just to win.    

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On 6/9/2018 at 1:25 PM, nightmare said:
On 6/9/2018 at 0:34 PM, Tecumseh said:

Question for you all ( @Otis?) In MLB, when the hitters come to the plate, they all have walk up music. Do the teams/the league/players have to pay royalties for the use? Is there a certain period of time (say, 10 seconds) that you can use a song before it becomes a copyright violation?

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe if the ballpark pays the ASCAP fees they can play any music they want.

Also not a lawyer, but, this is my understanding as well. Also applies to bars that play music, and as we hear every four years, political rallies and conventions (some artist gets pissed that whatever candidate is using their song as their theme song, but as long as the candidate pays the ASCAP fee for the venue, and the artist's song is covered by the ASCAP agreement, they don't get a say in who can play it and in what context. The artist gets the royalties and can go pound sand otherwise).

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Yeah, that's what I came up with. Seems shortsighted, since the walkup provides exposure, but whatever. Thanks for responding.

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2 hours ago, Walking Boot said:

Also not a lawyer, but, this is my understanding as well. Also applies to bars that play music, and as we hear every four years, political rallies and conventions (some artist gets pissed that whatever candidate is using their song as their theme song, but as long as the candidate pays the ASCAP fee for the venue, and the artist's song is covered by the ASCAP agreement, they don't get a say in who can play it and in what context. The artist gets the royalties and can go pound sand otherwise).

Pretty much.

Ive represented bars against ASCAP, BMI, the music publishers, etc. They dont fool around. They will send undercover folks in to record the songs being played in a bar on an unlicensed karaoke night, for example, and then if they cant arrive at a settlement for damages and past licensing fees they will sue in federal court and seek dozens of thousands of dollars per song. Copyright infringement is a strict liability tort, so it gets pretty ugly when there are statutory damages and attorney's fees at issue. 

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Posted (edited)

In February of last year I posted that my employers offered to make me a partner and eventually give me control of the firm.  As of today those negotiations have irrevocably broken down.  

Edited by Henry Ford

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38 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

In February of last year I posted that my employers offered to make me a partner and eventually give me control of the firm.  As of today those negotiations have irrevocably broken down, primarily because of the partners’ failure to care enough to craft an actual proposal.  It’s clear at this point that it was all a BS ploy to keep me making them tons of money until they retire in a year or two while they keep pushing me down the line in order to avoid having o restructure  

As of tomorrow we begin the separation discussions, with me likely taking 3/4 or more of the business portfolio and giving them the finger on the way out the door.  Completely insane turn of events. I don’t even understand. So weird. 

Good luck Henry. It’s actually a pretty common story in my market with smaller firms these days. Maybe due to poor planning, laziness, or just plain greed, there are a dozen or more examples of highly regarded smaller firms going out of business or merging with big firms, all due to unwillingness of the old guard to transition their clients to younger partners. In many cases the clients haven’t even spoken to these old guys for years and are more than happy to jump ship with the guy whose been doing the work. Best of luck in your next venture. 

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2 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Good luck Henry. It’s actually a pretty common story in my market with smaller firms these days. Maybe due to poor planning, laziness, or just plain greed, there are a dozen or more examples of highly regarded smaller firms going out of business or merging with big firms, all due to unwillingness of the old guard to transition their clients to younger partners. In many cases the clients haven’t even spoken to these old guys for years and are more than happy to jump ship with the guy whose been doing the work. Best of luck in your next venture. 

Thanks.  The firm kept telling me the issue was a tax problem related to the Republican tax bill. I finally called an old friend who’s a tax lawyer who basically said “No, time to leave. Also, I’ll bankroll you.”

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12 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

Thanks.  The firm kept telling me the issue was a tax problem related to the Republican tax bill. I finally called an old friend who’s a tax lawyer who basically said “No, time to leave. Also, I’ll bankroll you.”

Wow. Good luck man. 

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Did my first opening this week. Went well I think.  Other side was clearly stung and highly defensive about some surprises I dropped. So sorry!

A wild ride this year. Despite all that’s happening for me professionally, I still feel like I’m a kid and someone just handed me the car keys. 

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34 minutes ago, Otis said:

Did my first opening this week. Went well I think.  Other side was clearly stung and highly defensive about some surprises I dropped. So sorry!

A wild ride this year. Despite all that’s happening for me professionally, I still feel like I’m a kid and someone just handed me the car keys. 

Your first opening?  Wow.  Aren't you, like, a big wig partner?  You lawyers with staff and resources and lots of people helping out sure do have weird lives.

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18 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

Your first opening?  Wow.  Aren't you, like, a big wig partner?  You lawyers with staff and resources and lots of people helping out sure do have weird lives.

Yeah.  But I’m a relatively young partner still (early 40s), and in my field trials are all high stakes, cases aren’t tried often, and there’s always at least one or several older partners on the team who would open and close. Big firm thing. I finally got the nod despite being younger. I’d done a good deal of trial work before this in terms of taking witnesses, and have a good reputation as one of our future first chairs, but just never an opening. Still waiting on my first closing (this was a bench trial, no closings). Actually have another one coming up in the fall for which I’m lead and it would be an EDNY jury trial, I’d open and close in that one. 

I can imagine this seeming weird for guys like woz and others in here who are younger and who open and close all the time. 

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Can any Philly area guys send me a PM with a possible criminal law referral? Thanks. 

 

@Yankee23Fan

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On 6/28/2018 at 2:55 AM, Otis said:

 

I can imagine this seeming weird for guys like woz and others in here who are younger and who open and close all the time. 

It's different worlds, man.  I've probably given over 500 openings and closings now for a variety of contested hearings. The concept of working so many years without doing one, or that doing one is some high-level prestige thing, while I understand it, is just flat out foreign to me. 

Glad it went well for you.  In my experience it's pretty hard to surprise the opposing counsel in one's opening (unless you've reserved with some sort of sandbag defense) so you musta done something right. 

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25 minutes ago, Zow said:

Can any Philly area guys send me a PM with a possible criminal law referral? Thanks. 

 

@Yankee23Fan

Is it Philly or south Jersey? (Basically, do they need a PA license)

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50 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

Is it Philly or south Jersey? (Basically, do they need a PA license)

I believe a PA license is needed. Somebody familiar with the felony court process and standard probation there.  Admittedly, client isn't giving me much to go on. 

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9 hours ago, Zow said:

I believe a PA license is needed. Somebody familiar with the felony court process and standard probation there.  Admittedly, client isn't giving me much to go on. 

I might have someone. Will PM once I get into the office.

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10 hours ago, Zow said:

It's different worlds, man.  I've probably given over 500 openings and closings now for a variety of contested hearings. The concept of working so many years without doing one, or that doing one is some high-level prestige thing, while I understand it, is just flat out foreign to me. 

I can imagine.  So funny how broad the term “lawyer” really is. We all do it, but lord is it different from one of us to the next.  

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After this recent trial, I’m finally hitting the first patch in years where my billables have died down, and so have my originations. I don’t feel too bad about having some down time, because I’ve been one of the time hours billers in the firm for years, but I’m already starting to think ahead to the time when I really have nothing to do. This is a sick profession; I either walk around with anxiety about how much I have to do, or anxiety that I don’t have enough to do. 

Oh well, I’ll take some fridays and relax this summer, start getting myself ready for the new management role im taking in January, and in the meantime, a good time to get out there and pound the pavement to look for work. 

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1 hour ago, Otis said:

After this recent trial, I’m finally hitting the first patch in years where my billables have died down, and so have my originations. I don’t feel too bad about having some down time, because I’ve been one of the time hours billers in the firm for years, but I’m already starting to think ahead to the time when I really have nothing to do. This is a sick profession; I either walk around with anxiety about how much I have to do, or anxiety that I don’t have enough to do

Oh well, I’ll take some fridays and relax this summer, start getting myself ready for the new management role im taking in January, and in the meantime, a good time to get out there and pound the pavement to look for work. 

This sums up my professional existence.

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2 hours ago, Christo said:

This sums up my professional existence.

Ditto.

But a recent experience has made me realize that **** all, none of it is that important and I should play more golf.

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Currently watching a member of the federal postal court testify in his own fraud trial.  The state and the court are letting him essentially teach his theory to the jury.  It's fascinating.  Best way I can describe it is he's akin the to main character in A Beautiful Mind where he sees mathematical formulas in everything and it has devolved into madness. 

 

This isn't the guy, but here's a sample of what's being presented in the court hearing: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkLNShrp90A

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On 7/11/2018 at 7:28 AM, Otis said:

After this recent trial, I’m finally hitting the first patch in years where my billables have died down, and so have my originations. I don’t feel too bad about having some down time, because I’ve been one of the time hours billers in the firm for years, but I’m already starting to think ahead to the time when I really have nothing to do. This is a sick profession; I either walk around with anxiety about how much I have to do, or anxiety that I don’t have enough to do. 

Oh well, I’ll take some fridays and relax this summer, start getting myself ready for the new management role im taking in January, and in the meantime, a good time to get out there and pound the pavement to look for work. 

May I suggest The Plant Paradox diet in your downtime?

https://gundrymd.com/plant-paradox-shopping-list/

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On 7/11/2018 at 4:28 AM, Otis said:

After this recent trial, I’m finally hitting the first patch in years where my billables have died down, and so have my originations. I don’t feel too bad about having some down time, because I’ve been one of the time hours billers in the firm for years, but I’m already starting to think ahead to the time when I really have nothing to do. This is a sick profession; I either walk around with anxiety about how much I have to do, or anxiety that I don’t have enough to do. 

Oh well, I’ll take some fridays and relax this summer, start getting myself ready for the new management role im taking in January, and in the meantime, a good time to get out there and pound the pavement to look for work. 

This is very well put and also sums up the last several years of private practice. It's gotten worse now with kids of my own, the increased workload, and the downturn in my physical health. I never feel like there's enough time in the day.  I generally work from 7 am - 6 pm on a non-trial week. My kids get up around 6:30 AM and go to bed around 7:00 PM. So, I'm lucky to get that 30 minutes in the morning.  Then, at night, assuming I don't need to remain at the office, it's a choice between going to the gym or actually seeing my kids. Or, some nights, I'm just so fried I need to go home and stare at the wall for 20 minutes just to decompress.  I feel guilty every moment I'm not working, exercising, or spending time with my family. If I leave work at 5:00 PM I feel like I did as a 12 year old catholic school boy picturing the hot chick in class naked knowing god is judging me. I can justify golf or a softball tournament on the weekend as my "get away" time, but if I go grab a beer with the guys afterwards I immediately get that shame that I should be making money. Hell, I've stopped twice now while writing this to notes some files from earlier today and respond to some emails. 

What also doesn't help is that I've become a bit burned out lately. Due to some high-profile success recently in rape and murder trials, I'm now known as the "rape and murder guy." While I guess in a sense that's flattering, it's also quite disheartening that all that painstaking time, energy, and effort has resulted in me being the hero of those accused of the most heinous crimes. And, because I do this sort of work, it's completely desensitized me to these issues to the point where I am probably need some counseling and I've become socially inappropriate on occasion due to poor humor.  In other words, while I'm not exactly seeking societal approval I've found myself to be a social pariah of sorts. 

Additionally, it hasn't helped that 2/3 trials where my clients faced mandatory life in prison if convicted and all walked out of the courtroom free persons with full acquittals still didn't pay the entirety of their very reasonable fees after promising they would because they owed me their lives. And that's not even about the money -- hell, I'd be happy with just pittance per month if that's what they could afford -- it's just a disheartening lack of appreciation.  This culminated recently when I watched "The Staircase," noted how similar that case was to my recent case, and laughed until I cried at the disparity of what I made versus what that particular defense lawyer charged (his fee was alluded to in one of the episodes). Compound all this with a sizable family law caseload and I don't have the same fervor for the job I did as an energetic young lawyer in my early to mid 20s.  Oh, and I turned down running for a judge position out of loyalty to my firm and respect for a Commissioner who was also going to run -- only to have ask me to wait on my fee sharing check for this quarter and learn that the Commissioner has dropped out of the race leaving candidates I'm likely more qualified than. 

But, the above all said, I'm not exactly dreading getting up for work tomorrow. I still like trials and I love winning trials. I still make more money than most and I can provide for my family. I've been so productive for my firm that I can basically do whatever I want with little to no push back. Definitely just wish there were times where I could turn it off, not feel guilty being lazy/unproductive, and not have to be so stressed out to earn the amount of money that I am. 

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Some great posts. Being a lawyer is a difficult and exhausting job (as I stay up waiting for the final turn of an acquisition agreement at 2 am).  I don't think people realize how hard lawyers work. 

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On 7/13/2018 at 0:14 AM, Zow said:

.And, because I do this sort of work, it's completely desensitized me to these issues to the point where I am probably need some counseling and I've become socially inappropriate on occasion due to poor humor.  In other words, while I'm not exactly seeking societal approval I've found myself to be a social pariah of sorts. 

I've absolutely 100% been there. I was on the other side before I got out of the game, but I've felt this so much. When you deal with the situations that you're having to deal with, it can absolutely be difficult to compartmentalize. I was at least in an office and unit that was big enough that I had people I could talk to and trade gallows humor with. I hope you've got an outlet for it.

I don't really have any advice for you, but I just wanted to point out that this is one of the truest things I've read in my two decades here.

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guy got arrested in Milwaukee for killing 3 people and wounding one other

he's being charged with 6 counts of murder and 2 counts of attempted murder

how is this possible and why?

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45 minutes ago, mr. furley said:

guy got arrested in Milwaukee for killing 3 people and wounding one other

he's being charged with 6 counts of murder and 2 counts of attempted murder

how is this possible and why?

Different charges based on different theories, such as felony murder or aggravated murder.

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Posted (edited)

Whelp.  That was one heck of a week. 

Edited by Henry Ford
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Posted (edited)

Crazy week for me as well. Gave closing argument to the jury first thing yesterday, very confident as all the testimony had gone in perfectly during the week. Ten minutes in the jury asked a question and asked for a specific exhibit that was surprising and a huge concern for me, although my partner had a theory going in our favor. After about 4 hours they gave us a very mixed verdict, and only a Hail Mary post verdict motion my partner made saved us from disaster. Although our client is extremely pleased, I’m crushed. Worst part came when we caught a juror in the parking lot after and got his insight. He’s a smart guy, explained everything, and I don’t blame him at all for his decision based on the explanation he gave. It can be soul crushing to learn what the jury focused on in a case you’ve been litigating for 2 years when the evidence went in exactly as I wanted. Just totally misread what was important in the case, and honestly just got lucky in the end. The funniest part was when he told us we would have gotten zero, that not one juror would have given us anything but for one specific fact we put in on the second day. That particular fact was something I learned while prepping a minor witness at 9 pm in our hotel Tuesday night, and threw into my notes almost as an afterthought. Totally random fact as far as I was concerned that I put into his testimony at the last minute. 

 

Edited by CletiusMaximus
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Trials are a crapshoot.

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37 minutes ago, Christo said:

Trials are a crapshoot.

Most of my trial exp is in large chapter 11 cases, and we usually have pretty good judges in those cases, no juries. My parter is an old-school litigator and loves juries. I hate them.  

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9 hours ago, Christo said:

Trials are a crapshoot.

You guys ever mock them?  The greatest learning experience I’ve ever had in this profession.  I’ve had multiple cases in which our side lost in the mock but we learned, adjusted, and won with the real jury.  In IP cases usually there’s enough at stake that it’s worth the spend to a client.

Upcoming jury trial will be my first to pick a jury, open and close. Luckily we’ll do a mock with a consultant about a month prior. Will be nice to have a test run and know what’s working and what’s not. 

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On 7/13/2018 at 1:14 AM, Zow said:

This is very well put and also sums up the last several years of private practice. It's gotten worse now with kids of my own, the increased workload, and the downturn in my physical health. I never feel like there's enough time in the day.  I generally work from 7 am - 6 pm on a non-trial week. My kids get up around 6:30 AM and go to bed around 7:00 PM. So, I'm lucky to get that 30 minutes in the morning.  Then, at night, assuming I don't need to remain at the office, it's a choice between going to the gym or actually seeing my kids. Or, some nights, I'm just so fried I need to go home and stare at the wall for 20 minutes just to decompress.  I feel guilty every moment I'm not working, exercising, or spending time with my family. If I leave work at 5:00 PM I feel like I did as a 12 year old catholic school boy picturing the hot chick in class naked knowing god is judging me. I can justify golf or a softball tournament on the weekend as my "get away" time, but if I go grab a beer with the guys afterwards I immediately get that shame that I should be making money. Hell, I've stopped twice now while writing this to notes some files from earlier today and respond to some emails. 

What also doesn't help is that I've become a bit burned out lately. Due to some high-profile success recently in rape and murder trials, I'm now known as the "rape and murder guy." While I guess in a sense that's flattering, it's also quite disheartening that all that painstaking time, energy, and effort has resulted in me being the hero of those accused of the most heinous crimes. And, because I do this sort of work, it's completely desensitized me to these issues to the point where I am probably need some counseling and I've become socially inappropriate on occasion due to poor humor.  In other words, while I'm not exactly seeking societal approval I've found myself to be a social pariah of sorts. 

Additionally, it hasn't helped that 2/3 trials where my clients faced mandatory life in prison if convicted and all walked out of the courtroom free persons with full acquittals still didn't pay the entirety of their very reasonable fees after promising they would because they owed me their lives. And that's not even about the money -- hell, I'd be happy with just pittance per month if that's what they could afford -- it's just a disheartening lack of appreciation.  This culminated recently when I watched "The Staircase," noted how similar that case was to my recent case, and laughed until I cried at the disparity of what I made versus what that particular defense lawyer charged (his fee was alluded to in one of the episodes). Compound all this with a sizable family law caseload and I don't have the same fervor for the job I did as an energetic young lawyer in my early to mid 20s.  Oh, and I turned down running for a judge position out of loyalty to my firm and respect for a Commissioner who was also going to run -- only to have ask me to wait on my fee sharing check for this quarter and learn that the Commissioner has dropped out of the race leaving candidates I'm likely more qualified than. 

But, the above all said, I'm not exactly dreading getting up for work tomorrow. I still like trials and I love winning trials. I still make more money than most and I can provide for my family. I've been so productive for my firm that I can basically do whatever I want with little to no push back. Definitely just wish there were times where I could turn it off, not feel guilty being lazy/unproductive, and not have to be so stressed out to earn the amount of money that I am. 

Amen to all that. Nothing to add other than I feel consumed by work these days. Many of my partners walk away from it nights and weekends. Some completely shut off, which I find maddening given how much I sacrifice and work. Then again, it’s a personal choice, and I realize I shouldn’t judge them for theirs.  But I definitely have a sickness and am more or less consumed by work. Down time is mostly thinking about work. Drives with the family I definitely spend thinking about work. Client meetings I should be angling for, how I might handle things at a particular upcoming hearing. Weekend mornings after I set our breakfast for he kids, I head into my office and start researching or typing an article.  

Just a crazy profession. I don’t hate it, other than the anxiety and that I find it all consuming. 

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14 minutes ago, Otis said:

You guys ever mock them?  The greatest learning experience I’ve ever had in this profession.  I’ve had multiple cases in which our side lost in the mock but we learned, adjusted, and won with the real jury.  In IP cases usually there’s enough at stake that it’s worth the spend to a client.

Upcoming jury trial will be my first to pick a jury, open and close. Luckily we’ll do a mock with a consultant about a month prior. Will be nice to have a test run and know what’s working and what’s not. 

I don't have the sort of clients who can afford jury consultants.

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Just now, Christo said:

I don't have the sort of clients who can afford jury consultants.

What about even informal mocks with your paralegals and librarian or whatever?  Even that can be incredibly informative. 

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