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Devonta Freeman, RB (ATL)

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13 minutes ago, wormburner said:

Then, New Orleans, @ Tampa Bay, @ New Orleans for the playoff run. One decent start for when he's projected back, only to worry about the split with Coleman.  Not drop-able, but I wonder if he'll even start for me again this year.

While NO pass defense has been solid, their run defense is mediocre at best. Perine, Aaron Jones, and McCoy have recently average over 5 yards a carry against them, with Jordan Howard putting up a good game against them too.

The split backfield and game script would make me a little nervous, but NO isn't necessarily a bad match-up, in my opinion. Definitely not the good match-up I was hoping for when I traded for Freeman, but not a terrible match-up.

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^^^ Thanks for talking me in off the ledge.  Your thoughts on Atlanta recommitting to the run for this home stretch?

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2 hours ago, wormburner said:

Then, New Orleans, @ Tampa Bay, @ New Orleans for the playoff run. One decent start for when he's projected back, only to worry about the split with Coleman.  Not drop-able, but I wonder if he'll even start for me again this year.

2 dome games and the other in Tampa against a bad defense might suit him well.  Plus, maybe a couple weeks off will give him some fresh legs when the other teams are wearing down along with the fact that they will be playing their butts off for a playoff spot.  Just trying to give some other prospective.  

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I'm not going to blow any sunshine.  

There's a chance Freeman could be out the remainder of the NFL regular season.  Atlanta just paid him as their feature back and can't afford to turn him into a vegetable while they continue to win games.  They'll be extremely cautious and it doesn't help our fantasy outlooks.   

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1 hour ago, wormburner said:

^^^ Thanks for talking me in off the ledge.  Your thoughts on Atlanta recommitting to the run for this home stretch?

Hard to say, since Sark is a total nut, but it's been trending the right direction I think.

They've been running the ball more frequently (in terms of the pass to rush ratio) over the past month than they did over the first six games of the season, which could mean something or absolutely nothing. In spite of last night's stinker, I trust Coleman as an RB2 (mostly on volume alone) against any defense until Freeman gets back, whereupon I think Freeman becomes an RB2 (8-10 points in my half point PPR league would be my guess. Something like 13 to 15 touches for 70 to 80 yards with a shot at a touchdown), and Coleman becomes a what the hell flex play. I think you'll be disappointed if you're still holding out for RB1 numbers for Freemen, but I think he'll be a serviceable RB2 if/when he comes back.

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4 hours ago, Moonshine said:

Hard to say, since Sark is a total nut, but it's been trending the right direction I think.

They've been running the ball more frequently (in terms of the pass to rush ratio) over the past month than they did over the first six games of the season, which could mean something or absolutely nothing. In spite of last night's stinker, I trust Coleman as an RB2 (mostly on volume alone) against any defense until Freeman gets back, whereupon I think Freeman becomes an RB2 (8-10 points in my half point PPR league would be my guess. Something like 13 to 15 touches for 70 to 80 yards with a shot at a touchdown), and Coleman becomes a what the hell flex play. I think you'll be disappointed if you're still holding out for RB1 numbers for Freemen, but I think he'll be a serviceable RB2 if/when he comes back.

Totally agree with the first (though, I think you're being kind), hope you're right about the second.

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I own both Freeman and Coleman on the same dynasty team and while it pains me to say it, I wish he'd stay down for at least the rest of the fantasy season. As long as they're both simultaneously available, I can't see either being a game changer and freeman will be one shot away from leaving in the 1st quarter again. 

 

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Falcons RB Devonta Freeman remains in the concussion protocol. Although he feels ready to play, according to source close to him, he still has to go through the entire process before being cleared. The Falcons will let it play all the way out, day to day, with this being Freeman's second concussion since August and third since November of 2015. Tevin Coleman rushed for just 43 yards on 20 carries but scored a TD starting in place of Freeman during Monday night's 34-31 win at Seattle

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-40010034-4

Good news is he "feels ready to play," which is definitely a step in the right direction, but doesn't mean much for his prospects to play this weekend until we see him on the practice field. I'll remain doubtful until we see him get in a full practice and get that doctor's approval, but still...baby steps.

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1 hour ago, Moonshine said:

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-40010034-4

Good news is he "feels ready to play," which is definitely a step in the right direction, but doesn't mean much for his prospects to play this weekend until we see him on the practice field. I'll remain doubtful until we see him get in a full practice and get that doctor's approval, but still...baby steps.

He may be ready to play, but it makes me uneasy that he's still being held out. Concussions are no joke, especially when it's two in four months. Hopefully, he's back for the following game, but I wouldn't hold my breath. 

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13 minutes ago, jrwall said:

He may be ready to play, but it makes me uneasy that he's still being held out. Concussions are no joke, especially when it's two in four months. Hopefully, he's back for the following game, but I wouldn't hold my breath. 

For his own long-term health, I honestly hope he sits at least a couple more games out –– if not the season. This isn't an ankle or a shoulder. This is his mind. Better safe than sorry. 

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10 hours ago, ATB said:

For his own long-term health, I honestly hope he sits at least a couple more games out –– if not the season. This isn't an ankle or a shoulder. This is his mind. Better safe than sorry. 

I think the Falcons would be wise to hold him out an extra week at least.

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Dan Quinn says Freeman has cleared the concussion protocol, will return this week.

For those Freeman owners, who has the stones to start him this week? Against MN, in an uncertain timeshare, he'll probably be on my bench for Marvin Jones or Juju (if I am certain of Juju's availability come Sunday).

Glad to have him back with a week to get back on track before the playoffs begin though.

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29 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

Dan Quinn says Freeman has cleared the concussion protocol, will return this week.

For those Freeman owners, who has the stones to start him this week? Against MN, in an uncertain timeshare, he'll probably be on my bench for Marvin Jones or Juju (if I am certain of Juju's availability come Sunday).

Glad to have him back with a week to get back on track before the playoffs begin though.

I probably sit git for L Murray this wk, not sure yet

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My RB situation is a mess, so fortunately I have a playoff spot locked up with 1 week to go.  Between Freeman, Dion Lewis, Marshawn Lynch, and Kenyon Drake, Freeman will be on the bench, but I will be hoping for good signs to be able to start him in the post season.

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Interesting, I would think there would be some more optimism, granted it's at MIN but you figure after resting the past 2 games he would run like he's shot out of a cannon.

I don't think I can bench him over guys like R. Smith/Sanders/Westbrook/Engram.

 

Edited by bb7278

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Unless I was in a desperate position and absolutely needed to start him, I'd pass 10/10 and go with the serviceable backup. Tevin proved he's more than capable of handling a full workload, and against Minnesota, I would imagine they bring Freeman along slowly. See how he does for one week and then make the call on rolling him out in the playoffs. Really wish there was an additional week to see him in action. He's a risky proposition in the fantasy playoffs as far as I'm concerned. 

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26 minutes ago, jrwall said:

Unless I was in a desperate position and absolutely needed to start him, I'd pass 10/10 and go with the serviceable backup. Tevin proved he's more than capable of handling a full workload, and against Minnesota, I would imagine they bring Freeman along slowly. See how he does for one week and then make the call on rolling him out in the playoffs. Really wish there was an additional week to see him in action. He's a risky proposition in the fantasy playoffs as far as I'm concerned. 

I disagree. Freeman had a concussion, and while it's super concerning that he's had multiple incidents this year, this isn't like a high grade sprain or minor tear or a broken bone -- if Freeman is cleared, I'm not sure what bringing him back slowly does. If he's clear, he plays with his full, regular load.

Unfortunately, concussions are really tricky and another one for Freeman would be truly bad. But not sure babying him/lightening his load to protect him from another one makes any sense. 

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Just now, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

I disagree. Freeman had a concussion, and while it's super concerning that he's had multiple incidents this year, this isn't like a high grade sprain or minor tear or a broken bone -- if Freeman is cleared, I'm not sure what bringing him back slowly does. If he's clear, he plays with his full, regular load.

Unfortunately, concussions are really tricky and another one for Freeman would be truly bad. But not sure babying him/lightening his load to protect him from another one makes any sense. 

Don't disagree with you there. Davante Adams is a prime example that you can come back from a concussion and be very productive the following week. But I think Freeman is a different situation, as he's now had two concussions since August. If an independent neurologist is giving him the green light, that obviously means he's good to go, but I doubt he gets his regular load back right away. Just my opinion. 

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8 minutes ago, jrwall said:

Don't disagree with you there. Davante Adams is a prime example that you can come back from a concussion and be very productive the following week. But I think Freeman is a different situation, as he's now had two concussions since August. If an independent neurologist is giving him the green light, that obviously means he's good to go, but I doubt he gets his regular load back right away. Just my opinion. 

Totally get you. You may be right. But I guess my feeling is that a lighter workload doesn't necessarily lower the risk of another concussion happening as opposed to a player perhaps operating in a limited capacity coming back from another kind of injury, and where a lower workload helps the player's healing process.

Not sure if that's the right thinking, but the decision around coming back from concussions seems more binary to me despite the longer term compounding of these injuries over time -- if you are cleared, you are cleared and you play as usual and at your usual level. May not be so black/white with a player who plays with, say, a soft tissue injury that is 85-90% healed but still causes limited range of motion. 

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51 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

But I guess my feeling is that a lighter workload doesn't necessarily lower the risk of another concussion happening as opposed to a player perhaps operating in a limited capacity coming back from another kind of injury, and where a lower workload helps the player's healing process.

It holds to reason that the less you play, the less chance for re-injury. This holds for concussions too. And in a way, it's even more important to be cautious with a guy coming back from multiple concussions.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them use Freeman judiciously between the 20s and then use Coleman as a GL/short-yardage/and passing back. 

I have both Freeman and Coleman. I'm starting Coleman this week and benching Freeman, no matter what the chatter may be. 

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Correct me if I'm wrong:

If Freeman was at an increased risk for another concussion, he wouldn't be playing.  If they're going to limit his touches this weekend, they might as well continue doing so moving forward - as he's no more likely to get one Sunday than he is a year from now.  This isn't a tissue issue where he's trying to play at 90%; he's at 100%.  

Right?

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Far more concerned about the #1 Defense vs RBs that MIN has than I am the workload Freeman will get.  

Rams played them 2 weeks ago and Gurley went 15/37/1 rushing.  3/19 receiving.  

 

Freeman will likely get his normal 12-16 touches.  Solid chance it looks like this:  12/40/0, 3/20/0.  IMO he'll need a TD to be worth starting.  

 

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1 hour ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

I disagree. Freeman had a concussion, and while it's super concerning that he's had multiple incidents this year, this isn't like a high grade sprain or minor tear or a broken bone -- if Freeman is cleared, I'm not sure what bringing him back slowly does. If he's clear, he plays with his full, regular load.

Unfortunately, concussions are really tricky and another one for Freeman would be truly bad. But not sure babying him/lightening his load to protect him from another one makes any sense. 

This.  Sorry; missed it before making the same point.

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2 hours ago, Concept Coop said:

This.  Sorry; missed it before making the same point.

No worries, my man, you may have put it a little more succinctly and clearly than I did.

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3 hours ago, Concept Coop said:

Correct me if I'm wrong:

If Freeman was at an increased risk for another concussion, he wouldn't be playing.  If they're going to limit his touches this weekend, they might as well continue doing so moving forward - as he's no more likely to get one Sunday than he is a year from now.  This isn't a tissue issue where he's trying to play at 90%; he's at 100%.  

Right?

Anyone with multiple recent concussions is at a higher risk of repeat concussions. That's just how concussions work. Him being out of the protocol means he's not currently concussed. But he's still at an increased risk of another one than someone who hasn't had a recent concussion. 

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42 minutes ago, ATB said:

Anyone with multiple recent concussions is at a higher risk of repeat concussions. That's just how concussions work. Him being out of the protocol means he's not currently concussed. But he's still at an increased risk of another one than someone who hasn't had a recent concussion. 

Are you suggesting that his brain is still healing, and that at some point he will be less susceptible to future concussions than he will be on Sunday?  I don't think that is the case - and if it is, he shouldn't be playing at all.  

Edited by Concept Coop

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Bad situation heading into fantasy playoffs if this isn’t resolved this week. A lot of risk rolling Freeman or Coleman out with so much uncertainty. 

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15 hours ago, ATB said:

Anyone with multiple recent concussions is at a higher risk of repeat concussions. That's just how concussions work. Him being out of the protocol means he's not currently concussed. But he's still at an increased risk of another one than someone who hasn't had a recent concussion. 

 

14 hours ago, Concept Coop said:

Are you suggesting that his brain is still healing, and that at some point he will be less susceptible to future concussions than he will be on Sunday?  I don't think that is the case - and if it is, he shouldn't be playing at all.  

From what I heard from a concussion specialist when my son received his second concussion is one season of football, was that after a person has a concussion, they are 90% more likely to have a second concussion in the first two weeks thereafter than they are after two weeks out.  However, this statistic was based purely on historical data, and they could not conclusively state that it meant you were physically more susceptible to another concussion in the first two weeks.

Again, not trying to claim it as absolute truth, only what was conveyed to me by one specialist.

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I'm probably more concerned about him going up against a stout run defense than I am of ATL limiting his playing time for a risk of future concussions.  He's had time off and he's cleared the concussion protocols.  The doctors said he could play, and now his coaches are going to use him.  It's a business, and if Freeman says he can play, and the doctors say he can play, then he's going to play.  The coaches are still trying to get into the playoffs, which I don't see them doing if they are going to start limiting some of their best athletes due to fear of future concussions/injuries.  

Freeman knows the risks of obtaining future concussions, yet he's opting to go back out and play.  I don't think the coaches will limit him, unless he simply isn't performing on the field.

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All of the optimism in here (/sarc-off) has prompted me to bench him for C. Coleman, thanks guys.

Hope he stays healthy in the meantime, hit the reset button on his season, and is ready when I need him week 15 vs TB.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Peak said:

I'm probably more concerned about him going up against a stout run defense than I am of ATL limiting his playing time for a risk of future concussions.  He's had time off and he's cleared the concussion protocols.  The doctors said he could play, and now his coaches are going to use him.  It's a business, and if Freeman says he can play, and the doctors say he can play, then he's going to play.  The coaches are still trying to get into the playoffs, which I don't see them doing if they are going to start limiting some of their best athletes due to fear of future concussions/injuries.  

Freeman knows the risks of obtaining future concussions, yet he's opting to go back out and play.  I don't think the coaches will limit him, unless he simply isn't performing on the field.

Excellent post

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3 hours ago, Bull Dozier said:

 

From what I heard from a concussion specialist when my son received his second concussion is one season of football, was that after a person has a concussion, they are 90% more likely to have a second concussion in the first two weeks thereafter than they are after two weeks out.  However, this statistic was based purely on historical data, and they could not conclusively state that it meant you were physically more susceptible to another concussion in the first two weeks.

Again, not trying to claim it as absolute truth, only what was conveyed to me by one specialist.

That's a good example of what I'm getting at, here (and sorry your son had to experience that). 

If we all do just a little bit of research, we'll come to understand that multiple concussions increase your risk for further concussions. It's just a known effect of, essentially, the weakening of the brain. 

Here's just one of many links that back this up: https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20031118/one-concussion-increases-risk-of-more#1

"Players with a history of three or more previous concussions were three times more likely to have a concussion within the season than those without a history of a concussion."

We know Freeman has had 2 concussions this season and a 3rd that went unreported. That's 3 concussions in the same season. He is at HIGH risk of receiving another in the same season. 

His coaching staff knows this. Any doctor they've spoken with about Freeman has told them this. My bet is we see that knowledge affect his playing time and the kinda situations they put him in on the field (i.e., not goal-line or short yardage and possibly a snap count). 

All this directed @Concept Coop as well. 

Edited by ATB

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36 minutes ago, ATB said:

That's a good example of what I'm getting at, here (and sorry your son had to experience that). 

If we all do just a little bit of research, we'll come to understand that multiple concussions increase your risk for further concussions. It's just a known effect of, essentially, the weakening of the brain. 

Here's just one of many links that back this up: https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20031118/one-concussion-increases-risk-of-more#1

"Players with a history of three or more previous concussions were three times more likely to have a concussion within the season than those without a history of a concussion."

We know Freeman has had 2 concussions this season and a 3rd that went unreported. That's 3 concussions in the same season. He is at HIGH risk of receiving another in the same season. 

His coaching staff knows this. Any doctor they've spoken with about Freeman has told them this. My bet is we see that knowledge affect his playing time and the kinda situations they put him in on the field (i.e., not goal-line or short yardage and possibly a snap count). 

All this directed @Concept Coop as well. 

To be fair, this third concussion was never confirmed. We can suspect, but this came from one player in the league and everyone in the organization denied it, so it's hardly something we know.

That being said, I don't think removing that third concussion from the equation really changes you're conclusion much. Repeated concussions are definitely very scary and put a player at risk going forward.

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Coach Quinn said their won't be a limit on Devonta Freeman on Sunday, he's fresh and ready to go. Quinn is really excited to have both of his top RBs back healthy

Quote

Dan Quinn says Devonta Freeman is "so excited to get going. Football fuels him." #Falcons

https://twitter.com/FalconsKelsey/status/936285558338400256

https://twitter.com/willmcfadden/status/936285079604690944

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Just now, Steel Curtainrod said:

I don't know if I can start either hm or Coleman this week. Against this defense, this is literally worst case scenario. 

If the coach speak is true, then I expect back end RB2 numbers this week against MIN. I've been flip flopping between flexing Freeman or Marvin Jones all week (because Marvin Jones also has a nasty match-up), but Freeman would get the start over my Dez, Alfred Morris, and Juju (assuming Juju returns to full health), if that helps at all.

Not expecting much from him (or Coleman, for that matter), but I think both are still probably flex worthy for most.

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48 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

Coach speak, IMO. Falcons' team doctors have no doubt spoken with Coach Quinn at length about Freeman's increased risk for further concussions. He has no reason to force Freeman into the fold when Coleman is producing sufficiently. 

My prediction: Coleman gets more carries this week while Falcons maintain a cautious approach with Freeman. 60/40 split in Coleman's favor.

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12 minutes ago, ATB said:

Coach speak, IMO. Falcons' team doctors have no doubt spoken with Coach Quinn at length about Freeman's increased risk for further concussions. He has no reason to force Freeman into the fold when Coleman is producing sufficiently. 

My prediction: Coleman gets more carries this week while Falcons maintain a cautious approach with Freeman. 60/40 split in Coleman's favor.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with this prediction.

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would be very happy with 10 pts in 0.5ppr, im not asking for nor expecting 2015 freeman this game, but a 50% timeshare should still produce a decent floor for this tough matchup

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23 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

The more I think about it, the more I agree with this prediction.

FWIW, I'm starting both Freeman and Coleman at this moment. I might change that but I'm hoping for about 10 points from each and if, god forbid, Freeman is pulled from the game for whatever reason then Coleman makes up for his lack of production (hopefully). 

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Just now, ATB said:

FWIW, I'm starting both Freeman and Coleman at this moment. I might change that but I'm hoping for about 10 points from each and if, god forbid, Freeman is pulled from the game for whatever reason then Coleman makes up for his lack of production (hopefully). 

Yep. I'll still (probably) be rolling out Freeman in my flex, regardless of the expected split mentioned above and tough defense. At some point, the other players I'd be plugging into that spot come with their own share of sizeable risks, so I might as well bet on the most talented option to win out.

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Freeman, Coleman, Hunt, Lat Murray vs ATL and I've got to come up with two.

Talk about :headwall: :wall:

Coleman almost feels like the play between the two ATL backs. Of course you have Freeman's nogging to worry about but I also think game flow may dictate a heavier workload for Coleman.

Edited by Futz

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32 minutes ago, bolldpt said:

What are thoughts on Freeman's productivity against the Saints and his involvement in the game script?

if the games stays close he should have close to 100 yards rushing with a good chance at a TD. It sucks that Levitre is out but ATL's offensive line matches up real well with NO's porous run D

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5 hours ago, bolldpt said:

What are thoughts on Freeman's productivity against the Saints and his involvement in the game script?

Freeman scares me.  In general I just don't believe in Atlanta this year and the idea of hinging my playoffs on any asset on that team is just not sitting well with me at all.  Probably going to start him, but don't love it.  

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There is reason to have concern about Freeman given his recent concussion and his overall down year (along with the entire Falcons offense) but I'm starting him this week given then good matchup against NO run D (31 DVOA and 23 DVOA against receiving RBs).  

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