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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ramsay Hunt Experience
- Start date
El Floppo
Footballguy
Like most the teams who play against them, I have No idea.
Need to stay organized in the back and put pressure on any of the weak spots in Liverpool's d- which aren't very weak...Henderson, 2nd CB, wide MFs. Ideally do all of this while keeping your shape further upfield to keep fbs playing D and make Mane and Salah defend at least a little and not be high up field when the ball transitions. Also can't make ANY mistakes on the ball on the back. It's a tall order, tbh.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
+100% -- most of the starters will be on the bench IMO.charvik said:
Adrian
Williams Gomez Nat Milner
Jones Lallana Elliott
Minimino Brewster Origi
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Watch the four Napoli games from the last couple years in the CL. Whatever they're doing they've had Liverpool's #.kThe Z Machine said:
ETA: Napoli 2-0 Liverpool tactical breakdown
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charvik
Footballguy
4-4-2, low block on defense, with precise narrow shape and firm lines. Have 2-3 tall defenders, strong in the air, and put pressure on the crosses. Transition quickly to a flank overload, 2v1 or 3v2 on the left flank (depending who plays), by-pass the midfield, and avoid playing traditional channels in the build up. once in transition, use the quick forwards up top to take advantage of half spaces, or play balls over the top, depending on what strengths you have.The Z Machine said:
When defending the counter, make sure your midfield is strong enough, and have stamina enough to follow the top 3 back to break up the play. Don't over-commit on offensive corners.
I think Atletico is tactically strong, and will cause some concerns, if they can keep the shape and are physically strong enough to last the 90 (tall order). I don't know where Atletico will get the goals from though, that would be my main concern. If they can't threaten enough offensively, Liverpool can commit an extra midfielder to the attack and force goals.
Anyway, just my $0.02
ETA: A lot is going to depend on who is fit as well. If Liverpool can field a fit Henderson - Gini - Fabinho midfield, that will be tough for Atletico, as they have the work rate and tactical nous to withstand the flank overloads.
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charvik
Footballguy
Disagree, depending on which midfield is starting. I also think you want Trent and Robbo to get forward, just minimize/neutralize the damage by putting pressure on the cross, not defending too high which will allow the front three to get behind you, win the ball back and put pressure on the flanks. (Again, tall order)
bentley
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Atlético of 5 years ago would have been a perfect setup in your tactics. Now, not so much, as they are really only better at goalie and one wide midfielder compared to then.
As for goals, Atlético are really struggling to score this season, so I don't have any suggestions on where the goals will come from. Maybe Joao Felix will draw a penalty.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I agree that Wijnaldum, Henderson and Milner aren't a strong attacking mid. And basically everyone else is hurt right now.
So if you can shut down the outside backs the forwards can struggle for service. The front three are good enough that they can create for themselves, but you can keep them off the ball.
Keita and Minimino might negate that, but one is hurt and one has practiced with the team three times.
So if you can shut down the outside backs the forwards can struggle for service. The front three are good enough that they can create for themselves, but you can keep them off the ball.
Keita and Minimino might negate that, but one is hurt and one has practiced with the team three times.
charvik
Footballguy
The key is really who the gaffer trusts in the 6 role. If Henderson is allowed to push forward more (and not play 6), he can create, as can Gini, but without Fabinho in the 6, there isn't enough support to cover for 2 offensive FBs.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I think Liverpool's midfield is underrated considering the tactics that they play. The team is set-up for the chance creation to come out of the press and then from the fullbacks. They're able to do that precisely because Liverpool doesn't have to rely on a single ball winner in the middle of the pitch and is able to deploy a rotation of highly flexible all-around CMs (only Fabinho could say to be a pure 6). Henderson and Milner, in particular, just go out there and win every second ball and play nearly mistake free in managing the transitions in phases of play. Gigi and Keita now perform similar roles as late arriving box to box types who chip in goals.
I don't think Liverpool really miss a creative AM. By any measure, they've been a better team without Coutinho than they were with him.
I don't think Liverpool really miss a creative AM. By any measure, they've been a better team without Coutinho than they were with him.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Another thing that makes Liverpool so tough is that it's actually hard to take away what the fullbacks do. Robertson probably does most of his damage running in behind (if not necessarily on the traditional overlap), but TAA is so adept at switching play and hitting the early cross (and even springing counters from his own half), that you're really not taking him out of the game by keeping him in front of you.
With all that said, the underlying chance creation and chances conceded numbers show that Liverpool have been very good, but also more than a little bit fortunate. Models miss stuff, but Liverpool are not only greatly outscoring their xG (you'd expect them to be higher as penalities are excluded, but they are way higher), but are also conceding less than they xG would expect them to (even though they have the best xG conceded numbers in the league). Looking at the Opta numbers last weekend, I was struck by the fact that through the first half of the season, Liverpool was +3 xG over Chelsea thus far, but +26 in actual goal differential. Obviously, a healthy portion of that is limitations in the model, but not all of it.
With all that said, the underlying chance creation and chances conceded numbers show that Liverpool have been very good, but also more than a little bit fortunate. Models miss stuff, but Liverpool are not only greatly outscoring their xG (you'd expect them to be higher as penalities are excluded, but they are way higher), but are also conceding less than they xG would expect them to (even though they have the best xG conceded numbers in the league). Looking at the Opta numbers last weekend, I was struck by the fact that through the first half of the season, Liverpool was +3 xG over Chelsea thus far, but +26 in actual goal differential. Obviously, a healthy portion of that is limitations in the model, but not all of it.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
No matter how often I see it, I can’t get used to guys ripping their shirts off to celebrate and they are wearing what’s essentially a sports bra.
bentley
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Italian Reporter: "Zlatan, you are now in Serie A and have to compete against the single best player in the world. What does that mean to you?"
Zlatan: "When did Messi get transferred to an Italian club?"
Zlatan: "When did Messi get transferred to an Italian club?"
encaitar
Footballguy
Zlatan is a ####### gem. We will never have another guy like this. He gives zero ####s and I love that.Italian Reporter: "Zlatan, you are now in Serie A and have to compete against the single best player in the world. What does that mean to you?"
Zlatan: "When did Messi get transferred to an Italian club?"
Kafka
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Vinnie Jones tackling a toddler? Vinnie Jones tackling a toddler!
ETA, from the comments: Vincent Kompany takes out his daughter.
ETA, from the comments: Vincent Kompany takes out his daughter.
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El Floppo
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Wasn't trying to take anything away from him. Just didn't realize it was still a discussion -- it's clearly Messi for me.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Looked up career (2009/10+) ratings at Whoscored for a bunch of great players:
- Messi 8.58 (wtf?!)
- Neymar 8.24 (this is better than I expected - always considered him a luxury/lightweight player)
- Ronaldo 8.08
- Zlatan 7.71
- Suarez 7.70
- De Bruyne 7.57
- Lewandowski 7.54
- Mbappe 7.51
- Pogba 7.47
- Mane 7.36
- Aguero 7.35
- Salah 7.32
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Liverpool's full 2nd team (Gomez is the only starter after Milner went off injured) is leading Everton 1-0 on this goal from Curtis Jones.
Lucky to be in the game after the first half -- Adrian with a handful of good saves -- but Liverpool have dominated the 2nd half. Not sure Everton have a shot on goal after the break.
ETA: Adrian -- Neco Williams (18) -- Gomez (22) -- Nat Phillips (22) -- Larouchi (19) -- Lallana -- Chiravella (22) -- Curtis Jones (18) -- Elliott (16) -- Minimino -- Origi just beat Everton's first team.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Pretty much.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
He and Elliott are both headed to legit EPL careers IMO. If not for Liverpool, for someone. Like what I've seen of Neco Williams as well.
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charvik
Footballguy
The BBC commentator said "He just missed the bench I guess" while cameras zoomed in on a 5yr old supporter in the stand...
most Ev performance in a long time!
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
DC United have had discussions with Luca Modric. Of course, when they had “discussions” with Ozick it was about opening a coffee shop.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
This would be one hell of a pick up for the Fire. He tore the US to shreds last summer in the Gold Cup
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@meninred97
Per source, #cf97 have been offered the services of Monterrey attacking midfielder and Mexican international Rodolfo Pizzaro. #cf97 are negotiating the current price tag located somewhere in the 8-12 million range. The 25 year old CAM has 25 senior appearances for El Tri.
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@meninred97
Per source, #cf97 have been offered the services of Monterrey attacking midfielder and Mexican international Rodolfo Pizzaro. #cf97 are negotiating the current price tag located somewhere in the 8-12 million range. The 25 year old CAM has 25 senior appearances for El Tri.
El Floppo
Footballguy
bentley
Footballguy
Looks like a good offseason for MLS if several of these moves come to pass.
Ready to get started with the last season without a hometown team to root for. Bought four field seats for the company. Should get my own supporters section ones in a couple month when they go on sale.
Ready to get started with the last season without a hometown team to root for. Bought four field seats for the company. Should get my own supporters section ones in a couple month when they go on sale.
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Nashville supporters took a bus load of fans to show up at the players house who they just drafted at #2 today at the exact moment he was drafted 
El Floppo
Footballguy
And he was at the draft, so they hung out with his step-mom Bernice instead.Nashville supporters took a bus load of fans to show up at the players house who they just drafted at #2 today at the exact moment he was drafted
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I don't have anything specific set up to "follow" MLS, but it feels like I'm seeing a TON of "transfer to MLS" stories about some pretty decent and/or high profile players lately. Is this a specific thing this off-season or just random that I happen to be seeing them for some reason?
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Random silly season stuff imo. Agents love to use MLS as a way to get their clients more money when negotiating with other teams in Europe.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Exactly this.
I forget which Italian it was who came over pre-Giovinco, but I was surprised how much more they were getting in MLS compared to staying in Serie A.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
As far as I can recall, this is the furthest I've ever seen anyone score on a true shot (i.e. not catching the keeper out and lobbing him). Lines on the field suggest ~43-44 yards and his windup starts on the center circle. BOMB
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Incredible movement on the shot too. The keeper stepped in one direction and it ended up in the corner of the other.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Stunning.
There was a guy on the soccer made in Germany days... Franz Zimmerman or something...that hit enough of that kind of shot to register in my young noggin. But maybe not that far out...insane distance to even think about trying it.
