How Can The Forum Be Better? Your Thoughts? (1 Viewer)

[Nipsey]

I'm a big fan of the forum, a big fan of @Joe Bryant and the way he runs it. That being said I always felt the moderation style did nothing to help the forum except to put out short term fires. Specifically, I'm talking about the "time out" style of moderating. I feel it accomplishes little except give certain posters an "inmate mentality" where it's them vs. "the man". I say a better approach would be to reach out via PM to people who cross the line and let them know that while they're a big part of the forum's success, what they just posted can't happen. Try to get the person on your side instead of turning them against the place and the people running it. I know that's not easy and it's not going to work every time but I bet it works more than you think it will. Sometimes people get caught up in a moment or they're having a bad day or whatever and just making contact and letting them know they're an important part of the place and to help out in keeping it great would accomplish what you're setting out to do which is to put out a short term fire and to avoid a future headache.

Back in the day, maybe over 20 years ago, I had a moderator reach out to me and tell me they "didn't like me". I laughed to myself because why the heck was this person saying this to me (I think I posted a dumb joke or something and it didn't meet said mod's standards, plus the board was way more clicky back then). Anyway, that kind of turned me against the place a little and made me want to push the envelope more. I for sure did at times. Then about 10 or so years ago Joe reached out to me unsolicited and thanked me for being part of the forum and said something like people like me were part of it's success. I'm sure he reached out to many people that day but I have to say it made me feel a certain sense of responsibility and in some small way made me want to be better. So in conclusion maybe instead of just handing out bans, the moderators could reach out with an open hand. Maybe do that a couple of times and then if the poster will still not see the light then maybe that's someone you can permanently remove from the board. Some thing like a "3 strikes nice" rule. I really think the political forum could have survived if just a few guys would have been shown the door. You can see in these latest board related threads how some guys are just here to get under people's skin for whatever reason. I say 3 strikes nice those guys to see if it helps and if it doesn't then 86 those guys.

One other thing is "be excellent to each other", while a nice slogan for how to behave, I think needs to be spelled out in a more specific way. Things like making sure guys stay on topic and not resort to ad hominem attacks would be the big one. More specific rules for posting so everyone here knows what's up and what won't fly. And update or delete the forum FAQ. Some of that stuff hasn't been relevant for years and years.

 

[IC FBGCav]

It is done well. You do have groups of posters on here with agendas but the real posters come to the top.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Joe, within the confines of your preferred content restrictions (sexual stuff, politics, R-rated words) I think you have the board running about as well as can be expected. There's a clear, identifiable division within the forums that posters generally seem to follow (so the board is user friendly). I think The Shark Pool has improved with its content recently and the FFA continues to provide enjoyable content.

My only opinion on improving the board (recognizing that you want this board to be PG) would be to open back up the political sub forum. But, I know you strongly disagree with this opinion so I won't belabor the point further.

This is my stance as well. Yes it could be a cess pool at times, but honestly I did get a lot of my news from there and a whole lot of good info from there as well.

The big problem (to me) was that the PSF stuff spilled over to the FFA & the SP. So, you'd have folks arguing in the PSF and it would carry over to (say) a game thread where they'd keep trying to bait each other.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Was always a fan of dismissing the offending poster with "Have a good season"

Please bring this back.

 

[FairWarning]

The obsession with NEEDING TO BE ABLE TO discuss politics in every setting is mind bottling to me.

take a break, you’ll enjoy it

The obsession of avoiding a discussion of politics in any setting seems equally as bizarre to me.

I’m on 10 boards roughly and the ones who don’t offer politics run much better.

 

[Chemical X]

The obsession with NEEDING TO BE ABLE TO discuss politics in every setting is mind bottling to me.

take a break, you’ll enjoy it

The obsession of avoiding a discussion of politics in any setting seems equally as bizarre to me.

I’m on 10 boards roughly and the ones who don’t offer politics run much better.

i liken it to a holiday dinner......no religion, no politics. people are generally unable to civil discourse nowadays, so why tempt fate?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

i liken it to a holiday dinner......no religion, no politics. people are generally unable to civil discourse nowadays, so why tempt fate?

This should return to being the norm in workplaces as well.

 

[SWC]

The obsession with NEEDING TO BE ABLE TO discuss politics in every setting is mind bottling to me.

take a break, you’ll enjoy it

The obsession of avoiding a discussion of politics in any setting seems equally as bizarre to me.

I’m on 10 boards roughly and the ones who don’t offer politics run much better.

i liken it to a holiday dinner......no religion, no politics. people are generally unable to civil discourse nowadays, so why tempt fate?

ive always said conversations about politics religion and how good lookin other guys wives are never end well belatedly take that to the bank bromigos

 

[Chemical X]

The obsession with NEEDING TO BE ABLE TO discuss politics in every setting is mind bottling to me.

take a break, you’ll enjoy it

The obsession of avoiding a discussion of politics in any setting seems equally as bizarre to me.

I’m on 10 boards roughly and the ones who don’t offer politics run much better.

i liken it to a holiday dinner......no religion, no politics. people are generally unable to civil discourse nowadays, so why tempt fate?

ive always said conversations about politics religion and how good lookin other guys wives are never end well

can i take that to the bank?

 

[FairWarning]

The obsession with NEEDING TO BE ABLE TO discuss politics in every setting is mind bottling to me.

take a break, you’ll enjoy it

The obsession of avoiding a discussion of politics in any setting seems equally as bizarre to me.

I’m on 10 boards roughly and the ones who don’t offer politics run much better.

i liken it to a holiday dinner......no religion, no politics. people are generally unable to civil discourse nowadays, so why tempt fate?

ive always said conversations about politics religion and how good lookin other guys wives are never end well

Try asking if they are pregnant, that will get a response.

 

[Zow]

The obsession with NEEDING TO BE ABLE TO discuss politics in every setting is mind bottling to me.

take a break, you’ll enjoy it

The obsession of avoiding a discussion of politics in any setting seems equally as bizarre to me.

I’m on 10 boards roughly and the ones who don’t offer politics run much better.

i liken it to a holiday dinner......no religion, no politics. people are generally unable to civil discourse nowadays, so why tempt fate?

ive always said conversations about politics religion and how good lookin other guys wives are never end well

Agreed. But I'm totally willing to critique the heck out of another man's husband.

 

[Terminalxylem]

This will be unpopular and I already know it’s not going to happen but since you asked…I think you should bring the political forum back.

I know all the reasons why not already. Here are the reasons why: because we’re currently in the most tumultuous political era since the Civil War with an election coming up. We are more divided in this nation than at any point in our lifetimes. Despite all its problems and acrimony, your political forum was one of the rare places in our society where people on all sides could, at times, engage in civilized discussion and debate. And that’s a rare thing. Since you’ve shut it down I’ve looked for a replacement. I didn’t want a forum filled with people who agreed with me because what is the point? But I also didn’t want a forum filled with those who always disagreed with me. I wanted somewhere where both sides are reasonably heard. I have been unable to find such a place. Believe me I’ve tried. Also, every forum I’ve found has been far far uglier than here in terms of how people are treated, and the names they call each other. I don’t want that either.

Anyhow I think that at its best your political forum provided an important service. And I miss it. I fully get that it was too much moderation for you, too much work, too many complaints, bad for business. I can’t blame you at all for shutting it down. Perhaps an alternative might be to return it but charge a monthly fee? I’d pay it. I think others might though I don’t know. Just an idea. Anyway, you did ask so I thought I would offer my opinion on this subject one last time. And now I’m done.

While I don't agree that it should be brought back, I completely agree that it was better than other alternatives on the internet and your reasons why. I am significantly less informed on what's going on in our world now vs ~2 years ago and will only worsen as time goes by until I fall bass ackwards into an alternative that's ~80% of what it was, which kinda like change in our politics (please don't ban!) isn't going happen.

Embrace the ignorance - politics is toxic, and doesn’t meaningfully enrich the lives of most of us.

There are plenty of other edifying topics/activities in which to invest your time.

 

[rockaction]

I'd also like to thank Joe and (even though everybody should know it) say that the simple act of soliciting advice from us speaks volumes. It's heartening.

 

[rockaction]

Can I say something directed at those that really want a political aggregator or the news of the day?

Try X/Twitter. You're only bound by your own personal choice and limitations about how deep you want to get into the weeds. Anybody can DM me for a list of people to follow from the center-left/center-right sides of the aisle. And from there you can use X/Twitter like a sock. Find the people you're interested in.

What I would say, though, is that this is not the time to be disengaged from politics. I've taken my own breaks from politics and wound up happier as a result, but I would not suggest doing so in the upcoming years. I think it's crucial that everybody stay engaged because we're entering rough ideological waters now and up ahead—it's important that our generations (I'm thinking X'ers and Millennials) are heard, policy-wise, for reasons I won't go into here.

 

[beer 30]

This will be unpopular and I already know it’s not going to happen but since you asked…I think you should bring the political forum back.

I know all the reasons why not already. Here are the reasons why: because we’re currently in the most tumultuous political era since the Civil War with an election coming up. We are more divided in this nation than at any point in our lifetimes. Despite all its problems and acrimony, your political forum was one of the rare places in our society where people on all sides could, at times, engage in civilized discussion and debate. And that’s a rare thing. Since you’ve shut it down I’ve looked for a replacement. I didn’t want a forum filled with people who agreed with me because what is the point? But I also didn’t want a forum filled with those who always disagreed with me. I wanted somewhere where both sides are reasonably heard. I have been unable to find such a place. Believe me I’ve tried. Also, every forum I’ve found has been far far uglier than here in terms of how people are treated, and the names they call each other. I don’t want that either.

Anyhow I think that at its best your political forum provided an important service. And I miss it. I fully get that it was too much moderation for you, too much work, too many complaints, bad for business. I can’t blame you at all for shutting it down. Perhaps an alternative might be to return it but charge a monthly fee? I’d pay it. I think others might though I don’t know. Just an idea. Anyway, you did ask so I thought I would offer my opinion on this subject one last time. And now I’m done.

While I don't agree that it should be brought back, I completely agree that it was better than other alternatives on the internet and your reasons why. I am significantly less informed on what's going on in our world now vs ~2 years ago and will only worsen as time goes by until I fall bass ackwards into an alternative that's ~80% of what it was, which kinda like change in our politics (please don't ban!) isn't going happen.

Embrace the ignorance - politics is toxic, and doesn’t meaningfully enrich the lives of most of us.

There are plenty of other edifying topics/activities in which to invest your time.

And yet effects almost every facet of our lives directly or indirectly. Odd stance

Can I say something directed at those that really want a political aggregator or the news of the day?

Try X/Twitter. You're only bound by your own personal choice and limitations about how deep you want to get into the weeds. Anybody can DM me for a list of people to follow from the center-left/center-right sides of the aisle. And from there you can use X/Twitter like a sock. Find the people you're interested in.

I was much more a lurker than a contributor to the politics forum but this is what I did and it's fine. You can get just about anything you on X, tailor it to your personal echo chamber (or not) and get instantaneous notice of breaking news.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm a big fan of the forum, a big fan of @Joe Bryant and the way he runs it. That being said I always felt the moderation style did nothing to help the forum except to put out short term fires. Specifically, I'm talking about the "time out" style of moderating. I feel it accomplishes little except give certain posters an "inmate mentality" where it's them vs. "the man". I say a better approach would be to reach out via PM to people who cross the line and let them know that while they're a big part of the forum's success, what they just posted can't happen. Try to get the person on your side instead of turning them against the place and the people running it. I know that's not easy and it's not going to work every time but I bet it works more than you think it will. Sometimes people get caught up in a moment or they're having a bad day or whatever and just making contact and letting them know they're an important part of the place and to help out in keeping it great would accomplish what you're setting out to do which is to put out a short term fire and to avoid a future headache.

Back in the day, maybe over 20 years ago, I had a moderator reach out to me and tell me they "didn't like me". I laughed to myself because why the heck was this person saying this to me (I think I posted a dumb joke or something and it didn't meet said mod's standards, plus the board was way more clicky back then). Anyway, that kind of turned me against the place a little and made me want to push the envelope more. I for sure did at times. Then about 10 or so years ago Joe reached out to me unsolicited and thanked me for being part of the forum and said something like people like me were part of it's success. I'm sure he reached out to many people that day but I have to say it made me feel a certain sense of responsibility and in some small way made me want to be better. So in conclusion maybe instead of just handing out bans, the moderators could reach out with an open hand. Maybe do that a couple of times and then if the poster will still not see the light then maybe that's someone you can permanently remove from the board. Some thing like a "3 strikes nice" rule. I really think the political forum could have survived if just a few guys would have been shown the door. You can see in these latest board related threads how some guys are just here to get under people's skin for whatever reason. I say 3 strikes nice those guys to see if it helps and if it doesn't then 86 those guys.

One other thing is "be excellent to each other", while a nice slogan for how to behave, I think needs to be spelled out in a more specific way. Things like making sure guys stay on topic and not resort to ad hominem attacks would be the big one. More specific rules for posting so everyone here knows what's up and what won't fly. And update or delete the forum FAQ. Some of that stuff hasn't been relevant for years and years.

Thank you GB.

First I'm sorry if anyone from here ever said something like they didn't like you. That's terrible and I apologize if that was someone from here. It's also an example of how difficult it is to have good moderators.

We do that reaching out a good bit. In fact, did one earlier today. It's just most people here don't see it. And to your point, we very likely should do more.

Other times, like a beyonce thread type thing, there doesn't feel like it would be helpful.

And with anything, it boils down to time. A thoughtful message takes a little bit of time. And if the person has repeatedly shown that they will go well over the line, at some point, it becomes a question of if it's worth the time.

And I agree, we likely should try to get super specific on rules. But that gets challenging sometimes too and oftentimes, posters know exactly where to push it to and will get technical on they didn't exactly break that exact rule. And sometimes the more general "be excellent" is good. But I don't disagree it might be worthwhile to spend the time to dial in exactly on some things.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Was always a fan of dismissing the offending poster with "Have a good season"

Please bring this back.

I used to do that and I now see that I was kind of being uncool to posters there. As @Nipsey mentioned above, it's a challenge in how to moderate.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Why not a private opt in politics thread?

I don't want to speak for Joe and FBG, but my understanding is that these boards generate little to no revenue (at least direct revenue). So, even with a private opt-in thread or sub-forum, FBGs would still need to maintain it, monitor it, etc. which would mean FBGs expend more resources for little to no gain.

I say this as a guy who prefers there be a political forum and as a poster who appreciated the now closed political sub-forum. But, from a business perspective, I totally understand the decision to not have a politics forum on here.

ETA: I do like the idea of charging posters like $5/month to opt in to a PSF. I imagine a lot of us would be willing to pay and this may make the PSF worth it from a business perspective.

Thanks GB. Yes, they generate no revenue and are a significant cost to host them with the speed and quality folks expect. We've bypassed trying to have ads here to generate revenue as I know people would not like them and it's a battle I don't have the energy to fight.

That's a kind and thoughtful idea on charging for the forums but I don't really want to get into that area either. We don't have a framework in place to gatekeep for that and I'm not sure it would be worth the effort.

I do know there are a few folks that have said they buy a subscription https://www.footballguys.com/plans each year to help support the forums and that's super kind.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Can I say something directed at those that really want a political aggregator or the news of the day?

Try X/Twitter. You're only bound by your own personal choice and limitations about how deep you want to get into the weeds. Anybody can DM me for a list of people to follow from the center-left/center-right sides of the aisle. And from there you can use X/Twitter like a sock. Find the people you're interested in.

What I would say, though, is that this is not the time to be disengaged from politics. I've taken my own breaks from politics and wound up happier as a result, but I would not suggest doing so in the upcoming years. I think it's crucial that everybody stay engaged because we're entering rough ideological waters now and up ahead—it's important that our generations (I'm thinking X'ers and Millennials) are heard, policy-wise, for reasons I won't go into here.

To pick an example that is less than an hour old, I learned about the NY earthquake through Twitter before news about it appeared anywhere else, including here. It's like that with almost all breaking news. Is Twitter perfect? No. It is massively better than the PSF ever was though, in terms of speed, accuracy, access to genuine expertise, and customization.

 

[rockaction]

To pick an example that is less than an hour old, I learned about the NY earthquake through Twitter before news about it appeared anywhere else, including here. It's like that with almost all breaking news. Is Twitter perfect? No. It is massively better than the PSF ever was though, in terms of speed, accuracy, access to genuine expertise, and customization.

Yep. The only thing I've noticed about Twitter/X is that they have had a slight bit of a brain drain. Several people that I used to follow are gone and they weren't people that left all kneejerk-like when Musk bought it simply because they were so offended by his purchase. They left after Musk started getting political and they decided to no longer support his platform, which I think is fair even if I find their absence unfortunate.

So some have gone to Mastodon and others back to a Jack Dorsey competitor named Bluesky.

But yeah, it's never going to be perfect. The world isn't at your fingertips at first blush and for all comers for everybody. You have to do some Googling and hunting around to find out how to both assemble a following with people you agree and don't agree with (I assume most people do want steelman arguments so they'll do that), but it's easy enough to get there.

Anyway, I've used to it really crash course political philosophy and intellectual developments over the past month and a half. I feel like I've gotten the lay of the land although I had a head start back about a year or maybe more ago when I started researching who the New Right was and what they were all about. So there was that, but Twitter/X has been a good thing for me to catch up on where the Left is, also, and what sort of disagreements and internecine battles they're having.

I will say this, though. I don't follow anybody anymore. I think I made a mistake doing that in the past. I personally think that the amount of data the government is gathering is a frightening thing and that while one side is more likely to do so, both sides have the potential to weaponize it in the future. That's my own personal take and my own personal attitude towards what I see as illiberal tendencies in almost everyone these days. I'd be more vigilant, but I think I've given up quite a bit of the ghost posting here in the past and the damage is probably already done.

Perhaps I'm just doomscrolling all the time and reading fantastical stories. I hope so. There's a ton more to say, but I really won't broach it here. My reason for saying what I just said above is so that people have proper notice from a worrywart. I'm certainly not ringing in my endorsement of gathering one's information online. You're leaving a trail. Be aware of that.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Embrace the ignorance - politics is toxic, and doesn’t meaningfully enrich the lives of most of us.

There are plenty of other edifying topics/activities in which to invest your time.

And yet affects almost every facet of our lives directly or indirectly. Odd stance

Of course it does, but day-to-day, an individual’s political involvement/knowledge seldom, if ever, makes a difference in the big picture. Without seeking to keep up with the politics du jour, by interacting in society, you’ll learn about major events/policy anyway.

I don’t consume the news in any meaningful manner, and have only voted in only one presidential election. Yet I’m still a happy, productive, law-abiding adult. I know a handful of other highly educated, “successful” individuals who conduct themselves in the same manner.

On the flip side, the political junkies I encounter tend to be pretty miserable. While that’s not clearly cause-and-effect, nor universal, it’s tough to see what benefit they derive from their approach.

And regardless of whether you find my stance odd, our votes count the same.

It’s kinda like health. I’d argue being knowledgeable of healthful behaviors, and acting upon that information, is critically important to the individual. But relative indifference/ignorance works out ok, too. Usually.

It’s too bad @rockaction can’t elaborate his concerns, as I’d love to hear how he believes increasing my civic involvement matters so much, now, especially in comparison to how I’ve behaved the first half century of my life. And I did learn some things in the PSF. But I don’t think it’s critical to expand my knowledge.

 

[massraider]

I don’t consume the news in any meaningful manner, and have only voted in only one presidential election. Yet I’m still a happy, productive, law-abiding adult. I know a handful of other highly educated, “successful” individuals who conduct themselves in the same manner.

On the flip side, the political junkies I encounter tend to be pretty miserable. While that’s not clearly cause-and-effect, nor universal, it’s tough to see what benefit they derive from their approach.

Yeah, man.

For me:

It takes a concerted effort to make me an informed voter/citizen without wading into stuff that can make me angry. I want to know what's going on. But when I know that the media that is most accessible to us is designed to engage rather than inform, I know i need to look for fact based reporting, and not outrage clickbait.

Not a partisan take, every kind of media knows exactly what videos or pieces get engagement.

What really sucks is that I need to remain vigilant. I cannot just say I know the media is out for clicks. Because if I let my guard down, I'm watching another small town school board video, or another angry Karen video.

Death of the PSF was great for me personally, almost every discussion in there wasn't based on anything healthy, every active conversation was seeded by some outrage from one side or the other. I am a guilty as anyone else.

 

[rockaction]

And regardless of whether you find my stance odd, our votes count the same.

It’s kinda like health. I’d argue being knowledgeable of healthful behaviors, and acting upon that information, is critically important to the individual. But relative indifference/ignorance works out ok, too. Usually.

I'd love to elaborate my concerns but it's inappropriate to do so here and also in most public places, frankly. And if I pointed you in the way I was going, you'd probably be a bit miserable in your outlook. Of course, I could be totally wrong—I could be a victim of doomscrolling or be susceptible to dystopia-type thinking. That's how my politics was formed, so it's not a surprise I gravitate towards that. But I'd urge you to look around maybe and see if you can't pin down some things that are important.

And what I would say to the quoted above is to imagine yourself in the forums here and then apply to it politics for the near future. If you don't mind me getting personal, I've noticed that you will go to the absolute mat to make sure people are getting their science right here when it comes to their health. I've noticed this is not necessarily out of contentiousness for contentiousness' sake, but when you get past the stickler-for-science motive, you've often done this out of a general sympathetic caring for others who may not be in a position to understand these issues with the same knowledge and expertise you have. Your corrections are so that they are informed and empowered people when it comes to their health. So yes, their indifference or ignorance might wind up okay, but I'm not sure (and I could be wrong) that if you thought indifference or ignorance were truly okay that you'd give what you give to them in your time and generosity.

So it's weird for me to think about that impulse you have—the impulse to see people benefit from knowledge—and then think that you'd willingly risk being just "okay" in your voting decisions when you could have more knowledge behind your vote. Now, there's a time concern. I get it. And there's probably a limitation in understanding if you're not attuned to political science or political history and this is your first go-round. I also get that. And there's not an objective study or body of work you can point to as the captial "T" truth. But you can learn the basics. And I'd submit that the basics are really important right now. Think of the worst thing that can happen when you don't follow the scientific knowledge—your body can lie in disrepair. Then think of society as the body politic and extend that analogy.

And that's all I've got for you.

 

[beer 30]

Embrace the ignorance - politics is toxic, and doesn’t meaningfully enrich the lives of most of us.

There are plenty of other edifying topics/activities in which to invest your time.

And yet affects almost every facet of our lives directly or indirectly. Odd stance

Of course it does, but day-to-day, an individual’s political involvement/knowledge seldom, if ever, makes a difference in the big picture. Without seeking to keep up with the politics du jour, by interacting in society, you’ll learn about major events/policy anyway.

I don’t consume the news in any meaningful manner, and have only voted in only one presidential election. Yet I’m still a happy, productive, law-abiding adult. I know a handful of other highly educated, “successful” individuals who conduct themselves in the same manner.

On the flip side, the political junkies I encounter tend to be pretty miserable. While that’s not clearly cause-and-effect, nor universal, it’s tough to see what benefit they derive from their approach.

And regardless of whether you find my stance odd, our votes count the same.

It’s kinda like health. I’d argue being knowledgeable of healthful behaviors, and acting upon that information, is critically important to the individual. But relative indifference/ignorance works out ok, too. Usually.

It’s too bad @rockaction can’t elaborate his concerns, as I’d love to hear how he believes increasing my civic involvement matters so much, now, especially in comparison to how I’ve behaved the first half century of my life. And I did learn some things in the PSF. But I don’t think it’s critical to expand my knowledge.

All fair and as Rock stated, I appreciate your guidance on a lot of issues you weigh in on here. I would argue the bold is a bit of an incongruity but I try not to get into motivations when it comes to politics. However you digest politics, through a firehose or not at all, it's a personal choice and I ain't about trying to judge what motivates those. Appreciate your response.

 

[Terminalxylem]

And regardless of whether you find my stance odd, our votes count the same.

It’s kinda like health. I’d argue being knowledgeable of healthful behaviors, and acting upon that information, is critically important to the individual. But relative indifference/ignorance works out ok, too. Usually.

I'd love to elaborate my concerns but it's inappropriate to do so here, and in most public places, frankly. And if I pointed you in the way I was going, you'd probably be a bit miserable in your outlook. Of course, I could be totally wrong—I could be a victim of doomscrolling or be susceptible to dystopia-type thinking. That's how my politics was formed, so it's not a surprise I gravitate towards that. But I'd urge you to look around maybe and see if you can't pin down some things that are important.

And what I would say to the quoted above is to imagine yourself in the forums here and then apply to it politics for the near future. If you don't mind me getting personal, I've noticed that you will go to the absolute mat to make sure people are getting their science right here when it comes to their health. I've noticed this is not necessarily out of contentiousness for contentiousness' sake, but when you get past the stickler-for-science motive, you've often done this out of a general sympathetic caring for others who may not be in a position to understand these issues with the same knowledge and expertise you have. Your corrections are so that they are informed and empowered people when it comes to their health. So yes, their indifference or ignorance might wind up okay, but I'm not sure (and I could be wrong) that if you thought indifference or ignorance were truly okay that you'd give what you give to them in your time and generosity.

So it's weird for me to think about that impulse you have—the impulse to see people benefit from knowledge—and then think that you'd willingly risk being just "okay" in your voting decisions when you could have more knowledge behind your vote. Now, there's a time concern. I get it. And there's probably a limitation in understanding if you're not attuned to political science or political history and this is your first go-round. I also get that. And there's not an objective study or body of work you can point to as the captial "T" truth. But you can learn the basics. And I'd submit that the basics are really important right now. Think of the worst thing that can happen when you don't follow the scientific knowledge—your body can lie in disrepair. Then think of society as the body politic and extend that analogy.

And that's all I've got for you.

I'm probably overselling my political ignorance a bit, as I've friends with whom I discuss politics from time to time. And I paid attention to the limited poli sci I had in school.

Just like the person who knows major health concepts, say, obesity is bad, without delving into every recent nutrition study, or clickbait link, I can survive and function with basic knowledge just fine.

I enjoy learning and teaching about health, so it doesn't worsen my quality of life to wade into the science. But I know most health behaviors are influenced by things far beyond my control (like upbringing, and nutrition policy(!)), so I don't stress about it. I also don't expect most people to change. It's little effort to educate them though, and I can also benefit from what I learn.

Contrast that to politics, where it's far more contentious. And nearly impossible to find objective truth, or a personal political target, like healthy BMI. More often than not, it's rehashing the same rhetoric, and appealing to base emotion to garner votes. Fastidious attention to the details of contemporary policy ain't gonna quell the influence of populist propaganda, for example.

Now, the healthcare system is a mess, and our collective behaviors are trending in the wrong direction. I have a little deeper understanding of the political underpinnings of this trajectory, but still feel pretty powerless to influence it.

All that said, I'd love to be convinced my approach is faulty. If you have the time, I'll definitely take a DM, on the political issues you think greater involvement is most pressing.

 

[rockaction]

If you have the time, I'll definitely take a DM, on the political issues you think greater involvement is most pressing.

PM sent. It's really more of a direct assessment and opinion than an issue framing, and for that I apologize. I just figured I'd cut to the chase. If you want to follow up then you can hit me up for more objective citations or anything you have questions about. I welcome the conversation, for sure.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

If you have the time, I'll definitely take a DM, on the political issues you think greater involvement is most pressing.

PM sent. It's really more of a direct assessment and opinion than an issue framing, and for that I apologize. I just figured I'd cut to the chase. If you want to follow up then you can hit me up for more objective citations or anything you have questions about. I welcome the conversation, for sure.

This is off-topic and I'll drop it if the mods feel like it's wading too close to the kind of politics that we don't want here, but I think this is an interesting discussion. When I was younger, like in my 30s, I was really into politics, specifically the "football game" aspect of US partisan politics. I could seriously have rattled off about 2/3 of the senate, by name, state, and party affiliation, and I could have told you something reasonably intelligent about each of those people. I knew all the significant members of the house, all the cabinet secretaries, etc. I could run through all the competitive races in off-year elections and give you a little handicap on each of them.

Now I know almost none of those people. I seriously can't name a single cabinet secretary in this administration except for Buttigieg (sp?) and that's only because he was a presidential candidate. I have to stop and think about it to remember the name of my own state's DC legislators other than Thune. I have no freaking idea what's going on in the house, and I know almost nothing about these people who keep showing up on these clips from cable news. That lady who gave the SOTU rebuttal? I didn't know she existed prior to that.

Having experienced both worlds, I prefer political ignorance. Obviously I have opinions about things, but I try to stick to the proverbial 30,000-foot issues and worry less about the drama of the day in Washington. @Terminalxylem is right IMO that that leads people to unhealthy places after long periods of exposure, and I think the PSF provided outstanding evidence of that.

Also, frankly, I am at a point in life where I am going to be 100% fine no matter what happens around here in the next 20-30 years. I can see that people are knocking down load-bearing walls, but (a) they have been warned and (b) they're the ones who are going to have to live with the consequences, not me. I'm choosing not to get too worked up over developments that lie entirely outside my locus of control and that don't have a direct material affect on my life.

I say that as somebody who shares @rockaction 's overall sense of pessimism about the direction of the country. I'm just more resigned to the fact that the train has already left the station.

 

[AAABatteries]

Just getting back from vacation (IRL, not a TO) so apologies if this has been said.

I’m totally fine if we don’t being back the PSF but I think exceptions should be made for the Supreme Court thread, which was great and then something like a one week POTUS election thread. There’s huge current events things that deserve discussion.

 

[Psychopav]

Just getting back from vacation (IRL, not a TO) so apologies if this has been said.

I’m totally fine if we don’t being back the PSF but I think exceptions should be made for the Supreme Court thread, which was great and then something like a one week POTUS election thread. There’s huge current events things that deserve discussion.

I agree with this. There's room for some reasonable discourse. Perhaps mods volunteer to monitor topics that they are interested in when the idea comes up, they themselves or JB starts the threads, and the threads get locked when they are no longer current or when they get out of hand.

 

[rockaction]

Also, frankly, I am at a point in life where I am going to be 100% fine no matter what happens around here in the next 20-30 years. I can see that people are knocking down load-bearing walls, but (a) they have been warned and (b) they're the ones who are going to have to live with the consequences, not me. I'm choosing not to get too worked up over developments that lie entirely outside my locus of control and that don't have a direct material affect on my life.

That’s a thoughtful post, IK. I guess we’re just taking different approaches. I prefer to know my interlocutors and don’t mind if I help myself to a rhetorical offense so that I might publicly stand athwart history and turn the tide of conscience, or if things entirely blow up, some final and caustic words for the firing squad. (Everybody’s mileage gonna vary on both the grim assessment and the hypothetical action.)

Eta* I should also say I’m not into the “team” aspect of politics. Never have been, at least consciously. (That means I likely have done just that.) I waded back in because I wanted to know the philosophies and potential corruptions on both sides—and also about sides not yet considered. It’s been really grim. And now I’ll drop it also. Peace.

 

[Joe Bryant]

If you have the time, I'll definitely take a DM, on the political issues you think greater involvement is most pressing.

PM sent. It's really more of a direct assessment and opinion than an issue framing, and for that I apologize. I just figured I'd cut to the chase. If you want to follow up then you can hit me up for more objective citations or anything you have questions about. I welcome the conversation, for sure.

This is off-topic and I'll drop it if the mods feel like it's wading too close to the kind of politics that we don't want here, but I think this is an interesting discussion. When I was younger, like in my 30s, I was really into politics, specifically the "football game" aspect of US partisan politics. I could seriously have rattled off about 2/3 of the senate, by name, state, and party affiliation, and I could have told you something reasonably intelligent about each of those people. I knew all the significant members of the house, all the cabinet secretaries, etc. I could run through all the competitive races in off-year elections and give you a little handicap on each of them.

Now I know almost none of those people. I seriously can't name a single cabinet secretary in this administration except for Buttigieg (sp?) and that's only because he was a presidential candidate. I have to stop and think about it to remember the name of my own state's DC legislators other than Thune. I have no freaking idea what's going on in the house, and I know almost nothing about these people who keep showing up on these clips from cable news. That lady who gave the SOTU rebuttal? I didn't know she existed prior to that.

Having experienced both worlds, I prefer political ignorance. Obviously I have opinions about things, but I try to stick to the proverbial 30,000-foot issues and worry less about the drama of the day in Washington. @Terminalxylem is right IMO that that leads people to unhealthy places after long periods of exposure, and I think the PSF provided outstanding evidence of that.

Also, frankly, I am at a point in life where I am going to be 100% fine no matter what happens around here in the next 20-30 years. I can see that people are knocking down load-bearing walls, but (a) they have been warned and (b) they're the ones who are going to have to live with the consequences, not me. I'm choosing not to get too worked up over developments that lie entirely outside my locus of control and that don't have a direct material affect on my life.

I say that as somebody who shares @rockaction 's overall sense of pessimism about the direction of the country. I'm just more resigned to the fact that the train has already left the station.

Can I ask for a bit of an indulgence here - on that note from IK. This clip kind of shocked me https://www.tiktok.com/@usapresident.us/video/7353984895212965151?_r=1&_t=8lFdrp1jTyg

It features Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter and father and son Presidents Bush. But it's not political. It's about how we a society can talk to each other.

It's a reminder that it was not very long ago that our world felt different.

And to keep this from getting political, I say that only to say I don't think the train has left the station. We are the train. We have a say.

Again, please don't make it political or cast blame to any side. This is on us.

And I have to play by the same rules as everyone else. If you think being more civil to each other is political, use the report button and the moderators can look.

 

[rockaction]

But it's not political. It's about how we a society can talk to each other.

It’s political. You just don’t know it. You don’t get those guys in a room together to cut a commercial unless it has a socio-civic end. It’s called res ipsa loquitur. I can infer its political nature by its existence. That they are there cutting the commercial is evidence enough that it is a political issue. It’s a normative commercial that attempts to influence the tone of our civic discussion. They don’t get together in their official capacities as ex-presidents to convey an apolitical message.

Res ipsa loquitur - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

If you’ve seen modern discourse and the fracturing, then you know. And having seen the PSF, you do.

 

[Zow]

If you have the time, I'll definitely take a DM, on the political issues you think greater involvement is most pressing.

PM sent. It's really more of a direct assessment and opinion than an issue framing, and for that I apologize. I just figured I'd cut to the chase. If you want to follow up then you can hit me up for more objective citations or anything you have questions about. I welcome the conversation, for sure.

This is off-topic and I'll drop it if the mods feel like it's wading too close to the kind of politics that we don't want here, but I think this is an interesting discussion. When I was younger, like in my 30s, I was really into politics, specifically the "football game" aspect of US partisan politics. I could seriously have rattled off about 2/3 of the senate, by name, state, and party affiliation, and I could have told you something reasonably intelligent about each of those people. I knew all the significant members of the house, all the cabinet secretaries, etc. I could run through all the competitive races in off-year elections and give you a little handicap on each of them.

Now I know almost none of those people. I seriously can't name a single cabinet secretary in this administration except for Buttigieg (sp?) and that's only because he was a presidential candidate. I have to stop and think about it to remember the name of my own state's DC legislators other than Thune. I have no freaking idea what's going on in the house, and I know almost nothing about these people who keep showing up on these clips from cable news. That lady who gave the SOTU rebuttal? I didn't know she existed prior to that.

Having experienced both worlds, I prefer political ignorance. Obviously I have opinions about things, but I try to stick to the proverbial 30,000-foot issues and worry less about the drama of the day in Washington. @Terminalxylem is right IMO that that leads people to unhealthy places after long periods of exposure, and I think the PSF provided outstanding evidence of that.

Also, frankly, I am at a point in life where I am going to be 100% fine no matter what happens around here in the next 20-30 years. I can see that people are knocking down load-bearing walls, but (a) they have been warned and (b) they're the ones who are going to have to live with the consequences, not me. I'm choosing not to get too worked up over developments that lie entirely outside my locus of control and that don't have a direct material affect on my life.

I say that as somebody who shares @rockaction 's overall sense of pessimism about the direction of the country. I'm just more resigned to the fact that the train has already left the station.

Can I ask for a bit of an indulgence here - on that note from IK. This clip kind of shocked me https://www.tiktok.com/@usapresident.us/video/7353984895212965151?_r=1&_t=8lFdrp1jTyg

It features Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter and father and son Presidents Bush. But it's not political. It's about how we a society can talk to each other.

It's a reminder that it was not very long ago that our world felt different.

And to keep this from getting political, I say that only to say I don't think the train has left the station. We are the train. We have a say.

Again, please don't make it political or cast blame to any side. This is on us.

And I have to play by the same rules as everyone else. If you think being more civil to each other is political, use the report button and the moderators can look.

Your post reminds me of this clip, which is what I always watch when I want to feel better about our country's state of affairs:

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

 

[Tin Cup]

Give Evilgrin72 a lifetime subscription to entice him back, pin a story time with EG thread, and tell all moderators to play Sargeant Schultz with that particular thread.

 

[Joe Bryant]

If you have the time, I'll definitely take a DM, on the political issues you think greater involvement is most pressing.

PM sent. It's really more of a direct assessment and opinion than an issue framing, and for that I apologize. I just figured I'd cut to the chase. If you want to follow up then you can hit me up for more objective citations or anything you have questions about. I welcome the conversation, for sure.

This is off-topic and I'll drop it if the mods feel like it's wading too close to the kind of politics that we don't want here, but I think this is an interesting discussion. When I was younger, like in my 30s, I was really into politics, specifically the "football game" aspect of US partisan politics. I could seriously have rattled off about 2/3 of the senate, by name, state, and party affiliation, and I could have told you something reasonably intelligent about each of those people. I knew all the significant members of the house, all the cabinet secretaries, etc. I could run through all the competitive races in off-year elections and give you a little handicap on each of them.

Now I know almost none of those people. I seriously can't name a single cabinet secretary in this administration except for Buttigieg (sp?) and that's only because he was a presidential candidate. I have to stop and think about it to remember the name of my own state's DC legislators other than Thune. I have no freaking idea what's going on in the house, and I know almost nothing about these people who keep showing up on these clips from cable news. That lady who gave the SOTU rebuttal? I didn't know she existed prior to that.

Having experienced both worlds, I prefer political ignorance. Obviously I have opinions about things, but I try to stick to the proverbial 30,000-foot issues and worry less about the drama of the day in Washington. @Terminalxylem is right IMO that that leads people to unhealthy places after long periods of exposure, and I think the PSF provided outstanding evidence of that.

Also, frankly, I am at a point in life where I am going to be 100% fine no matter what happens around here in the next 20-30 years. I can see that people are knocking down load-bearing walls, but (a) they have been warned and (b) they're the ones who are going to have to live with the consequences, not me. I'm choosing not to get too worked up over developments that lie entirely outside my locus of control and that don't have a direct material affect on my life.

I say that as somebody who shares @rockaction 's overall sense of pessimism about the direction of the country. I'm just more resigned to the fact that the train has already left the station.

Can I ask for a bit of an indulgence here - on that note from IK. This clip kind of shocked me https://www.tiktok.com/@usapresident.us/video/7353984895212965151?_r=1&_t=8lFdrp1jTyg

It features Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter and father and son Presidents Bush. But it's not political. It's about how we a society can talk to each other.

It's a reminder that it was not very long ago that our world felt different.

And to keep this from getting political, I say that only to say I don't think the train has left the station. We are the train. We have a say.

Again, please don't make it political or cast blame to any side. This is on us.

And I have to play by the same rules as everyone else. If you think being more civil to each other is political, use the report button and the moderators can look.

Your post reminds me of this clip, which is what I always watch when I want to feel better about our country's state of affairs:

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

www.youtube.com

Yes. Thank you. Same exact sentiment.

 

[Scoresman]

Any forum experts know if there's a way to search for all of your own posts in a given thread?

If this doesnt exist, there's an idea to make the forum better.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Any forum experts know if there's a way to search for all of your own posts in a given thread?

If this doesnt exist, there's an idea to make the forum better.

This is a great idea. Sometimes there is a 20 page thread that says I posted in it, but I have no idea how many times or what pages. This would probably also cut down on duplicate posts.

 

[massraider]

Any forum experts know if there's a way to search for all of your own posts in a given thread?

If this doesnt exist, there's an idea to make the forum better.

This is a great idea. Sometimes there is a 20 page thread that says I posted in it, but I have no idea how many times or what pages. This would probably also cut down on duplicate posts.

See the little magnifying glass, top right of the page?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Any forum experts know if there's a way to search for all of your own posts in a given thread?

If this doesnt exist, there's an idea to make the forum better.

This is a great idea. Sometimes there is a 20 page thread that says I posted in it, but I have no idea how many times or what pages. This would probably also cut down on duplicate posts.

See the little magnifying glass, top right of the page?

Thanks. The search now is really good. You can search in different places (whole forum down to this thread) for key words and by posters. (including yourself). Super helpful.

 

[MAC_32]

This will be unpopular and I already know it’s not going to happen but since you asked…I think you should bring the political forum back.

I know all the reasons why not already. Here are the reasons why: because we’re currently in the most tumultuous political era since the Civil War with an election coming up. We are more divided in this nation than at any point in our lifetimes. Despite all its problems and acrimony, your political forum was one of the rare places in our society where people on all sides could, at times, engage in civilized discussion and debate. And that’s a rare thing. Since you’ve shut it down I’ve looked for a replacement. I didn’t want a forum filled with people who agreed with me because what is the point? But I also didn’t want a forum filled with those who always disagreed with me. I wanted somewhere where both sides are reasonably heard. I have been unable to find such a place. Believe me I’ve tried. Also, every forum I’ve found has been far far uglier than here in terms of how people are treated, and the names they call each other. I don’t want that either.

Anyhow I think that at its best your political forum provided an important service. And I miss it. I fully get that it was too much moderation for you, too much work, too many complaints, bad for business. I can’t blame you at all for shutting it down. Perhaps an alternative might be to return it but charge a monthly fee? I’d pay it. I think others might though I don’t know. Just an idea. Anyway, you did ask so I thought I would offer my opinion on this subject one last time. And now I’m done.

While I don't agree that it should be brought back, I completely agree that it was better than other alternatives on the internet and your reasons why. I am significantly less informed on what's going on in our world now vs ~2 years ago and will only worsen as time goes by until I fall bass ackwards into an alternative that's ~80% of what it was, which kinda like change in our politics (please don't ban!) isn't going happen.

Embrace the ignorance - politics is toxic, and doesn’t meaningfully enrich the lives of most of us.

There are plenty of other edifying topics/activities in which to invest your time.

I'm not sure what prompted me to go down the rabbit hole last night, but I perused some threads in that forum in which I was engaged. It occurred to me after a handful that my participation in those threads likely contributed to my being offered the job I have now. My opinions on several subjects and our environment in general evolved to informed and the applied knowledge led to both recommendations to interview me, much better answers in those interviews than I had prior, and quickly developing good relationships once I got here. Our HR Director actually calls me 'Senator' and while I'm still unsure if that's a compliment or insult that diplomatic but direct approach seems to be treating me well here.

Thank you, political sub-forum.

 

[Tau837]

Joe, within the confines of your preferred content restrictions (sexual stuff, politics, R-rated words) I think you have the board running about as well as can be expected. There's a clear, identifiable division within the forums that posters generally seem to follow (so the board is user friendly). I think The Shark Pool has improved with its content recently and the FFA continues to provide enjoyable content.

Suggestions from this board, sign up for 1440 News or The Morning Brew. Both are pretty solid at aggregating the news into a simple, quick email you get first thing in the morning.

I’m totally fine if we don’t being back the PSF but I think exceptions should be made for the Supreme Court thread, which was great and then something like a one week POTUS election thread. There’s huge current events things that deserve discussion.

All

There are only 3 sites I visit every day without fail, usually multiple times per day. This is one of them. Thanks @Joe Bryant and to all of the posters who make it interesting and entertaining.

 

[Gold Fox]

Can the ***OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES*** topic be split into 2 separate threads (one for 1QB, and one for 2QB/SF)?

I understand that there are a multitude of ways to customize fantasy leagues, but this one parameter in particular creates a HUGE difference when discussing trade valuation.

 

[Gally]

Can the ***OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES*** topic be split into 2 separate threads (one for 1QB, and one for 2QB/SF)?

I understand that there are a multitude of ways to customize fantasy leagues, but this one parameter in particular creates a HUGE difference when discussing trade valuation.

But I think that huge difference is beneficial for both sides because it prompts additional discussion points. Separating them may lead to less discussion which would be a negative IMO.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Can the ***OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES*** topic be split into 2 separate threads (one for 1QB, and one for 2QB/SF)?

I understand that there are a multitude of ways to customize fantasy leagues, but this one parameter in particular creates a HUGE difference when discussing trade valuation.

But I think that huge difference is beneficial for both sides because it prompts additional discussion points. Separating them may lead to less discussion which would be a negative IMO.

Thanks. That’s always something I worry about, and it seems the more you fragment things, the less attention they get as a whole. Obviously, there are thresholds. I just want what’s best for value and discussion.

 

[rockaction]

Can the ***OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES*** topic be split into 2 separate threads (one for 1QB, and one for 2QB/SF)?

I understand that there are a multitude of ways to customize fantasy leagues, but this one parameter in particular creates a HUGE difference when discussing trade valuation.

But I think that huge difference is beneficial for both sides because it prompts additional discussion points. Separating them may lead to less discussion which would be a negative IMO.

This can be easily resolved by simply stating what type of league you play in. I’ve misread at times, but about 95% of the time I get it right. Most people do.

 

[dickey moe]

Can I say something directed at those that really want a political aggregator or the news of the day?

Try X/Twitter. You're only bound by your own personal choice and limitations about how deep you want to get into the weeds. Anybody can DM me for a list of people to follow from the center-left/center-right sides of the aisle. And from there you can use X/Twitter like a sock. Find the people you're interested in.

What I would say, though, is that this is not the time to be disengaged from politics. I've taken my own breaks from politics and wound up happier as a result, but I would not suggest doing so in the upcoming years. I think it's crucial that everybody stay engaged because we're entering rough ideological waters now and up ahead—it's important that our generations (I'm thinking X'ers and Millennials) are heard, policy-wise, for reasons I won't go into here.

Another good aggregator is realclearpolitics.com and the other realclear offshoots, if one is so inclined. You get exposed to many different perspectives and varieties of news that you won't find by just sticking with mainstream media sources.

 

[rockaction]

Another good aggregator is realclearpolitics.com and the other realclear offshoots, if one is so inclined

Ah, yes. I’d forgotten they do that. Good call.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Joe, within the confines of your preferred content restrictions (sexual stuff, politics, R-rated words) I think you have the board running about as well as can be expected. There's a clear, identifiable division within the forums that posters generally seem to follow (so the board is user friendly). I think The Shark Pool has improved with its content recently and the FFA continues to provide enjoyable content.

Suggestions from this board, sign up for 1440 News or The Morning Brew. Both are pretty solid at aggregating the news into a simple, quick email you get first thing in the morning.

I’m totally fine if we don’t being back the PSF but I think exceptions should be made for the Supreme Court thread, which was great and then something like a one week POTUS election thread. There’s huge current events things that deserve discussion.

All

There are only 3 sites I visit every day without fail, usually multiple times per day. This is one of them. Thanks @Joe Bryant and to all of the posters who make it interesting and entertaining.

Thank you GB.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

Hijacking this thread or necroing or whatever...

does it make sense to have an "other sports" sub forum or just continue on with putting them in the free for all?

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

Actully, thinking about it (for like 3 seconds) I think it does kinda make sense since we are a sports adjacent website and having all other sports related topics in a separate SF. I could see where someone could say that it doesn't matter much in the long run and sure. Maybe it makes sense to have less talked about sports just have a thread in the free for all and there's zero need to make a 3rd sports SF or merge the basketball + baseball into some "other sports" SF. IDK, just something I thought about.