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Charcandrick WEST - Should we be talking about this kid ?

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If you feel the need to pay a single cent for FF advice you shouldn't be playing FF. Also, when said FF advice fails you, you have no one to blame but yourself.

One of the more narrow minded viewpoints I've seen, really on any subject.

He who no longer asks for advice no longer grows, intellectually. Hell, I ask the advice of my team members ("subordinates") at work quite often. If you are not strong enough to accept that the advice of others can only provide additive value, good luck.

That said, I had heard the rumblings about West for a few weeks - it was not like some clear switch. That said, I can't comment on what specifically was said here. Other than listen to all the advice you can folks, and not just in FF. Doesn't mean you take the advice, but listen = learn.

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FWIW, if you need to pay even a cent for financial advice, you shouldn't even be investing.

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If you feel the need to pay a single cent for FF advice you shouldn't be playing FF. Also, when said FF advice fails you, you have no one to blame but yourself.

True that. I'm not playing FF to listen to someone else. It's my team.

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If you feel the need to pay a single cent for FF advice you shouldn't be playing FF. Also, when said FF advice fails you, you have no one to blame but yourself.

This. Stop whining.

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If you feel the need to pay a single cent for FF advice you shouldn't be playing FF. Also, when said FF advice fails you, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Of course, the Oracle has certain prophetic advantages ...

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If you feel the need to pay a single cent for FF advice you shouldn't be playing FF. Also, when said FF advice fails you, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with subscribing to fantasy sites. If you think that you by yourself can consume and process the same amount of info that a group of 10+ people who literally do nothing but that, you're an arrogant moron. And that's if you're already an experienced player, to tell a newbie there's nothing to be gained from subscribing is even more ridiculous.

That's not to say you should just blindly follow whatever those sites tell you, but as someone who's been playing for more than a decade I still find value in comparing my own decisions against that of a group of experts each week for perspective.

Edited by ThePittbully

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If you feel the need to pay a single cent for FF advice you shouldn't be playing FF. Also, when said FF advice fails you, you have no one to blame but yourself.

True that. I'm not playing FF to listen to someone else. It's my team.

There's quite a bit of data handsomely wrapped in ribbons by different premium FF sites. With above mindset, do either of you regret not seeing that?

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Good talent who will be fed the ball and has an easy end of season schedule. He is a top 10 RB the rest of the way.

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If you feel the need to pay a single cent for FF advice you shouldn't be playing FF. Also, when said FF advice fails you, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with subscribing to fantasy sites. If you think that you by yourself can consume and process the same amount of info that a group of 10+ people who literally do nothing but that, you're an arrogant moron. And that's if you're already an experienced player, to tell a newbie there's nothing to be gained from subscribing is even more ridiculous.

That's not to say you should just blindly follow whatever those sites tell you, but as someone who's been playing for more than a decade I still find value in comparing my own decisions against that of a group of experts each week for perspective.

Depends on how high $$ leagues you are in. I'm in one pay league with a $20 buyin, and a few free leagues with friends. It's not worth paying for advice for that. If you're in a a bunch of leagues that where you are paying 3-4 digits in entry fees - then yea, dropping 20 bucks or so is a good investment to backup your teams with the best info possible.

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If you feel the need to pay a single cent for FF advice you shouldn't be playing FF. Also, when said FF advice fails you, you have no one to blame but yourself.

One of the more narrow minded viewpoints I've seen, really on any subject.

i agree with that original point, and not for the reasons you would think.

i truly believe that once you get past the basic fundamentals of drafting and player knowledge, there is no such thing as good fantasy advice. things like WDIS and figuring out murky RBBC situations? sheer luck. paying for tips on that stuff is no different from paying gamblers to hear their stone cold lead pipe lock of the week, in my view.

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If you feel the need to pay a single cent for FF advice you shouldn't be playing FF. Also, when said FF advice fails you, you have no one to blame but yourself.

One of the more narrow minded viewpoints I've seen, really on any subject.

i agree with that original point, and not for the reasons you would think.

i truly believe that once you get past the basic fundamentals of drafting and player knowledge, there is no such thing as good fantasy advice. things like WDIS and figuring out murky RBBC situations? sheer luck. paying for tips on that stuff is no different from paying gamblers to hear their stone cold lead pipe lock of the week, in my view.

I couldn't disagree more. Most of us don't have time to watch every game. Most of us don't watch the all-22s. Luck is involved no doubt, and the FF experts do get it wrong sometimes. FBGs provides a service that is well worth the $ IMO. As an example, I haven't watched a Bills game yet. I have noticed that they give up the 8th most points in the league to WRs. What I learned from FBGs is how they got there. They've played pretty stingy D vs the opposing #1 WR. They've held OBJ, Hilton, AJ Green and Landry mostly in check. They've done that while giving up relatively big days to Rishard Matthews, Marvin Jones and Donte Moncrief. Having that kind of knowledge helps make WDIS decisions etc. Now Landry might go out there and tear it up vs the Bills this weekend, and Matthews might have a bad day. That doesn't mean it was a bad process to upgrade Matthews this weekend and downgrade Landry.

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If you feel the need to pay a single cent for FF advice you shouldn't be playing FF. Also, when said FF advice fails you, you have no one to blame but yourself.

One of the more narrow minded viewpoints I've seen, really on any subject.

i agree with that original point, and not for the reasons you would think.

i truly believe that once you get past the basic fundamentals of drafting and player knowledge, there is no such thing as good fantasy advice. things like WDIS and figuring out murky RBBC situations? sheer luck. paying for tips on that stuff is no different from paying gamblers to hear their stone cold lead pipe lock of the week, in my view.

I couldn't disagree more. Most of us don't have time to watch every game. Most of us don't watch the all-22s. Luck is involved no doubt, and the FF experts do get it wrong sometimes. FBGs provides a service that is well worth the $ IMO. As an example, I haven't watched a Bills game yet. I have noticed that they give up the 8th most points in the league to WRs. What I learned from FBGs is how they got there. They've played pretty stingy D vs the opposing #1 WR. They've held OBJ, Hilton, AJ Green and Landry mostly in check. They've done that while giving up relatively big days to Rishard Matthews, Marvin Jones and Donte Moncrief. Having that kind of knowledge helps make WDIS decisions etc. Now Landry might go out there and tear it up vs the Bills this weekend, and Matthews might have a bad day. That doesn't mean it was a bad process to upgrade Matthews this weekend and downgrade Landry.

Whole heartedly agree with this.

At the end of the day, one has to synthesize the information and make decisions, but access to quality information is a valuable resource.

Just like I pick and choose the posters on here whose opinions I take into consideration, I pick and choose what I consider valuable information.

FBG provides valuable information that helps me make the best decisions I can. Snap counts, defensive tendencies, even subjective opinions of the various writers all add elements that influence my final calls. It's not really about knowing who the handcuff to a stud RB is anymore...that's everywhere, it's about finding usage and match up patterns that tip the balance. Intelligent folks who watch the All 22 and provide insights I never see...I will pay for that access.

Every decision won't work out the way I hope, but, I believe a good process in getting to that decision will result in a good outcome more often than not.

Edited by treat88

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To be fair I never even heard of this dude until Charles got injured and I started looking into who his replacement would be.

I consider myself to be pretty up-to-date on NFL rosters but I imagine most of you never heard of this guy either. To criticize the staff seems a bit unfair on this one.

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If you feel the need to pay a single cent for FF advice you shouldn't be playing FF. Also, when said FF advice fails you, you have no one to blame but yourself.

True that. I'm not playing FF to listen to someone else. It's my team.

There's quite a bit of data handsomely wrapped in ribbons by different premium FF sites. With above mindset, do either of you regret not seeing that?

Data. Perspective... of those who also play the Fantasy game, to those who are professionals within the football and sports industry. People who analyze data, or have more in depth insight into matchups and what it may mean when the backup slot corner has to start and what that may open up in terms of game plan etc.

Now, if you already know this, then why the #### are you even here unless it's to impart your immense knowledge and insight?

Because if it's the latter, we're still waiting.

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If you feel the need to pay a single cent for FF advice you shouldn't be playing FF. Also, when said FF advice fails you, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Must be nice to be able to devote hours and hours each week to your hobby doing your own research, film analysis, projections and news blurb compilations.

Maybe you should be opening your own for profit fantasy website.

There's no shame in admitting that someone else does something better than you do or has access to resources that you lack.

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I think the free podcast is all you really need to gauge value and find prospects; its all I use, as long as you know Bloom's personality. I been posting here more than 10 years lurking for more than that. I pretty much know Bloom is going to love the Christine Michaels of the world so I discount his waiver % when hearing about it. Just look at all the posts on this board about Christine Michael, a guy with more pages on this forum site than carries for his career so you know the FBGs have been pushing him as their darling for years so you know any situation that changes for him will be interpreted as good for his value. Instead of seeing a guy that couldn't break out when given the opps, that couldn't beat out Turbin or Rawls for the backup position, basically cutting ties with him for a 7th round (Mr. Irrelevant type pick) they see a guy with a whole new world of opportunity in Dallas, and they might be correct, but remember that they been pushing this guy for years so any ambiguous changes are looked upon as good, where as if a guy like Sharc was traded to Dallas, they would shrug their shoulders and say, "they just want some added depth at RB, nothing to see here", when that is probably all Dallas was looking for from Christine Michael, which after seeing usage, (especially since the perfect storm occurred of Joseph Randle going down from injury) appears to be correct. If he was so good he would have taken over, not McFadden. But they apologize just as they did with Latimer over and over even in the face of reality, cos its "their guy". When McFadden goes down and they put another guy in or he doesn't produce they will have another excuse, "The line isn't giving him holes, the system isn't set up for his style," etc.

So the podcast is good as long as you can avoid the Cody Latimer type minefields, and I love the Gene Bramal segments. I pointed out just the few items that are bad, mostly its a very valuable show with likeable personalities. I tried some other podcasts for FFB and I couldn't stand listening to some of them, wont name them but it was horrible. I like to watch the film each week and when it jives with what Bloom is saying its good reinforcement that what I see is correct. When it goes against what I am seeing on tape then I usually take a closer look and if I still feel good about a guy, like I did West then I know I can get them for a "steal" because a lot of the guys in my league listen to FBG. Even if I didn't get West in the WW I could have traded for him most likely as Bloom suggested as the main strategy. The tough guys to get are the Christine Michaels or the guys Bloom fawns over for 20 minutes. Deangelo WIlliams would be impossible to trade for this week. As far as FBG is concerned, watch out for the 2nd coming of Bell 2.0. I see legitimate concerns.

I went on about the bad but the good is I usually hear about a guy that I didn't notice on film each week, usually if I am locked and loaded at a position like TE I don't pay as much attention to potential breakouts. I always scour for any RB activity because its such a value position with a lot of injuries so I focus on that when watching film more. I usually do this during my workouts as I don't have time to just watch film each week so I combine activities of watching/working out and usually not every game. This is the time I listen to the podcasts as well. I have to combine all activities in an hour or two and multitask. I think it works because it forces me to work out more during football season cos I want to watch the games. Sometimes I get so into it my wife informs me that I been working out for 3 hours, but its so fun that I don't even notice, that's how I like to work out, LOL. Some weeks I don't have time to fit them all in so I prioritize the games that have breakout talents playing. Anyway its always valuable to hear other points of views on players. I personally don't pay for the info, but I wouldn't put down others that don't have time or dedication to do all this. $30 a year can save you a lot of time if you don't enjoy the digging for prospects process (I do) and you will hit on 90% of what is available, but might not get those nuggets like Dion Lewis as no site was promoting him to even be drafted, let alone a RB1 in PPR.

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There is obviously nothing wrong with paying for FF content and info as many folks do here and elsewhere. There is also a very valid point about it being a bit ridiculous to complain that every bit of info and insight is not conveyed to you because you spent $30 for a subscription. Its all opinion, guesswork, and projection of what will happen in a future that none of us can predict with certainty. You will not get an email every single time any little piece of FF info comes up. Its just not practical.

What is somewhat being lost here is the value of this board. It is one of the many resources of this site and happens to be free. I like to think of myself as being one of the more plugged in FF owners out there and I didnt know who West was either until I saw this thread bumped at the beginning of last month. Because of this I had an eye out for him and was able to snag him before my league mates in one league. Same with Dion Lewis in another.

There is a lot of info out there. A website subscription can be beneficial but should not be seen as the end all and be all. You still have to use your google machine skills and find some of it on your own and get lucky.

Now can we please go back to discussion focused on Charcandrick West the football player.

Edited by VaTerp

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That's a good point and an obviously stupid omission. This forum site is probably the most valuable resource of any and if I could only select one thing I would pick this forum as the most valuable resource.

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My opinion is that there are enough legitimate free resources available that there's absolutely no need to pay for information in any capacity. My post was crass however and even worse added zip to the discussion. Allow me to make it up with a videos of West's touches from last week.

C. West Week 8 vs. DET Part 1

C. West Week 8 vs. DET Part 2

The first video is a bit choppy at the beginning but smooths out quickly.

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Some subscription stuff is worth the money. I thought PFF's signature stats were well worth the $20. FBG's data dominator app is ridiculous good value for being free but won't be next year and I'll be tempted to get a subscription just for that app and nothing else. Basically I'll pay for data that I don't have time to sort through or can't access on my own and then analyze that data to make my own FF decisions.

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If I knew how, I'd make a gif of his dance at 7:42 and use it as my avatar for a while.

Here you go

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To be fair I never even heard of this dude until Charles got injured and I started looking into who his replacement would be.

I consider myself to be pretty up-to-date on NFL rosters but I imagine most of you never heard of this guy either. To criticize the staff seems a bit unfair on this one.

People who had Knile Davis saw this coming before Charles got hurt, because Davis was getting 0 carries in relief while some other guy was getting 5-10 touches.

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He actually got in trouble for doing that dance because it was too sexy. I hope his defense was that he was doing the charcnado.

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Tough week against the Broncos coming up but what are we expecting from him the rest of the season? Any thoughts on how things look next year with Charles coming off of injury?

I have him on my contract league roster and trying to gauge his value.

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Dude has totally saved my ### in a league where I drafted Forte and Randle as my RBs. Been worth every penny of that blind bid $ so far. Love ya Charc!

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With his talent and usage, have a feeling he's going to be on a lot of championship teams this year.

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With his talent and usage, have a feeling he's going to be on a lot of championship teams this year.

Probably so. There's always a scenario like this every year and that's the way it is.

I just hope if it comes to be that this guy is like a Foster or Victor Cruz, etc, wherein he is a player that emerges and stays relevant. I can handle losing to guys who find a diamond in the rough but I hate losing to guys that find a player of the week/month who comes in, crushes the league, cleans out the vault, and then disappears back into obscurity, never to be heard from again in fantasy.

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With his talent and usage, have a feeling he's going to be on a lot of championship teams this year.

Probably so. There's always a scenario like this every year and that's the way it is.

I just hope if it comes to be that this guy is like a Foster or Victor Cruz, etc, wherein he is a player that emerges and stays relevant. I can handle losing to guys who find a diamond in the rough but I hate losing to guys that find a player of the week/month who comes in, crushes the league, cleans out the vault, and then disappears back into obscurity, never to be heard from again in fantasy.

As a West dynasty owner, I approve this message.

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https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/11/16/kc-den-grades-manning-benched-chiefs-coast-to-comfortable-win/

"HB Charcandrick West (+2.2) had to work for his 69 rushing yards; 41 came after contact, and West forced four missed tackles."

With his talent and usage, have a feeling he's going to be on a lot of championship teams this year.

Probably so. There's always a scenario like this every year and that's the way it is.

I just hope if it comes to be that this guy is like a Foster or Victor Cruz, etc, wherein he is a player that emerges and stays relevant. I can handle losing to guys who find a diamond in the rough but I hate losing to guys that find a player of the week/month who comes in, crushes the league, cleans out the vault, and then disappears back into obscurity, never to be heard from again in fantasy.

As a West dynasty owner, I approve this message.

I'm guessing you're going to have to wait until 2017 or 2018, right? I can't see KC cutting (or trading) Charles next season, but it does look like they could save $6M if they did. Maybe RBBC next year?

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With his talent and usage, have a feeling he's going to be on a lot of championship teams this year.

Probably so. There's always a scenario like this every year and that's the way it is.

I just hope if it comes to be that this guy is like a Foster or Victor Cruz, etc, wherein he is a player that emerges and stays relevant. I can handle losing to guys who find a diamond in the rough but I hate losing to guys that find a player of the week/month who comes in, crushes the league, cleans out the vault, and then disappears back into obscurity, never to be heard from again in fantasy.

As a CJ Anderson Owner last year and this year, I approve this message.

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https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/11/16/kc-den-grades-manning-benched-chiefs-coast-to-comfortable-win/

"HB Charcandrick West (+2.2) had to work for his 69 rushing yards; 41 came after contact, and West forced four missed tackles."

With his talent and usage, have a feeling he's going to be on a lot of championship teams this year.

Probably so. There's always a scenario like this every year and that's the way it is.

I just hope if it comes to be that this guy is like a Foster or Victor Cruz, etc, wherein he is a player that emerges and stays relevant. I can handle losing to guys who find a diamond in the rough but I hate losing to guys that find a player of the week/month who comes in, crushes the league, cleans out the vault, and then disappears back into obscurity, never to be heard from again in fantasy.

As a West dynasty owner, I approve this message.

I'm guessing you're going to have to wait until 2017 or 2018, right? I can't see KC cutting (or trading) Charles next season, but it does look like they could save $6M if they did. Maybe RBBC next year?

If he maintains this production, I guarantee we will hear a lot about him being the "must have handcuff" to Charles or whether Charles should be let go, etc, but I don't think there is a reality for that. Reid and Charles go together like PB&J and Charles is a special player.

I think it should be a caution to people when considering West next year and I would point to the Foster/Tate scenario. West=Tate. Everyone will LOVE him based on the short run results and what he did stepping in fresh at the middle of the season but when Charles is healthy, West=k. Davis and we have already seen how the perceived value of Davis went from him being the must have handcuff to almost completely worthless. In dynasty, Davis is actually a sunken cost because you can't cut him yet he is eating a roster spot and giving you nothing.

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https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/11/16/kc-den-grades-manning-benched-chiefs-coast-to-comfortable-win/

"HB Charcandrick West (+2.2) had to work for his 69 rushing yards; 41 came after contact, and West forced four missed tackles."

With his talent and usage, have a feeling he's going to be on a lot of championship teams this year.

Probably so. There's always a scenario like this every year and that's the way it is.

I just hope if it comes to be that this guy is like a Foster or Victor Cruz, etc, wherein he is a player that emerges and stays relevant. I can handle losing to guys who find a diamond in the rough but I hate losing to guys that find a player of the week/month who comes in, crushes the league, cleans out the vault, and then disappears back into obscurity, never to be heard from again in fantasy.

As a West dynasty owner, I approve this message.

I'm guessing you're going to have to wait until 2017 or 2018, right? I can't see KC cutting (or trading) Charles next season, but it does look like they could save $6M if they did. Maybe RBBC next year?

Will all depend on how Charles recovers from the ACL tear, IMO. If he comes back around 100%, it'll be hard to give anyone else touches. If he's obviously slowed down, probably RBBC.

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https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/11/16/kc-den-grades-manning-benched-chiefs-coast-to-comfortable-win/

"HB Charcandrick West (+2.2) had to work for his 69 rushing yards; 41 came after contact, and West forced four missed tackles."

With his talent and usage, have a feeling he's going to be on a lot of championship teams this year.

Probably so. There's always a scenario like this every year and that's the way it is.

I just hope if it comes to be that this guy is like a Foster or Victor Cruz, etc, wherein he is a player that emerges and stays relevant. I can handle losing to guys who find a diamond in the rough but I hate losing to guys that find a player of the week/month who comes in, crushes the league, cleans out the vault, and then disappears back into obscurity, never to be heard from again in fantasy.

As a West dynasty owner, I approve this message.

I'm guessing you're going to have to wait until 2017 or 2018, right? I can't see KC cutting (or trading) Charles next season, but it does look like they could save $6M if they did. Maybe RBBC next year?

If he maintains this production, I guarantee we will hear a lot about him being the "must have handcuff" to Charles or whether Charles should be let go, etc, but I don't think there is a reality for that. Reid and Charles go together like PB&J and Charles is a special player.

I think it should be a caution to people when considering West next year and I would point to the Foster/Tate scenario. West=Tate. Everyone will LOVE him based on the short run results and what he did stepping in fresh at the middle of the season but when Charles is healthy, West=k. Davis and we have already seen how the perceived value of Davis went from him being the must have handcuff to almost completely worthless. In dynasty, Davis is actually a sunken cost because you can't cut him yet he is eating a roster spot and giving you nothing.

If he stays healthy, he'll have started 11 games. At that point, I'd think we will all know who he is. Not sure how many meaningful games Davis has started, but I'm sure it is less than 11 and he's got a career 3.4 ypc and terrible PFF grades. I don't think West and Davis are comparable talents.

I think West will indeed be the "must have handcuff" for Charles next year, however, I don't really think that will be all that valuable because Charles gets 80%+ of the snaps.

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In the upgrades/downgrades article, Bloom still can't bring himself to give this guy any credit. Apparently his upgrade isn't really to do with his actual play, but the great game scripts that KC is giving him.

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