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Official Josh Doctson - WR - Redskins (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter bud29
- Start date
bud29
Footballguy
Don't expect that to last. It doesn't seem like his injury is very significant, and if he puts up solid combine numbers (as he's expected to), he'll probably place himself back in the top WR tier.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
He's likely going to play in the Alamo Bowl. If he proves himself there. He won't drop far at all. If anything, he'll strengthen his position against a porous Oregon secondary.
bud29
Footballguy
Ruled out for the Alamo Bowl: http://presstelegraph.com/2015/12/24/all-american-receiver-josh-doctson-ruled-out-for-tcus-bowl.html
Borden
Footballguy
I have Doctson ahead of Treadwell, Caroo and Coleman so far. I still have to watch Fuller and Lawler.
Pros:
- Very good at high pointing the ball.
- Settles down in holes of zones defenses.
- Good sideline awareness.
- Uses body well to create space from defender.
- Manipulates defenders while the ball is in the air. Stops then goes.
- Blocks down field and does it smartly. No blocks in the back.
- Very good at playing/adjusting to the ball in the air.
- Comes back to QB on broken plays.
Cons:
- Doesn't always come back to the ball on shorter routes.
- Inconsistent with breaking down on breaks. Can tell that he has to remind himself to do it.
- Will take his eyes off the ball when he thinks the hit is coming.
- Can be knocked off his route with the jam.
- Will get caught off guard by quick throws.
This guy is really tough to project. Corners play so far off of him and there's lots of broken plays that he gets the ball on. Plus, Boykin throws him a lot of bad balls so it's tough to get a read on his speed. That said, on those deep passes, once the ball is in the air, there's no in this class that does what he does. Other guys can high point it but the way he moves and manipulates DBs is second to none. I understand that I'm higher on him than most. I can see him going to the Bills, Vikings or the Seahawks in round 2.
Pros:
- Very good at high pointing the ball.
- Settles down in holes of zones defenses.
- Good sideline awareness.
- Uses body well to create space from defender.
- Manipulates defenders while the ball is in the air. Stops then goes.
- Blocks down field and does it smartly. No blocks in the back.
- Very good at playing/adjusting to the ball in the air.
- Comes back to QB on broken plays.
Cons:
- Doesn't always come back to the ball on shorter routes.
- Inconsistent with breaking down on breaks. Can tell that he has to remind himself to do it.
- Will take his eyes off the ball when he thinks the hit is coming.
- Can be knocked off his route with the jam.
- Will get caught off guard by quick throws.
This guy is really tough to project. Corners play so far off of him and there's lots of broken plays that he gets the ball on. Plus, Boykin throws him a lot of bad balls so it's tough to get a read on his speed. That said, on those deep passes, once the ball is in the air, there's no in this class that does what he does. Other guys can high point it but the way he moves and manipulates DBs is second to none. I understand that I'm higher on him than most. I can see him going to the Bills, Vikings or the Seahawks in round 2.
Borden
Footballguy
Thanks for the heads up. I will take a look a Garrett tomorrow.Edit:
I decided to check him out right away instead. I see the similarities but the QB and systems make they difficult to compare. Garrett ran a lot more quick ins and slants. More timing routes. And the deep balls seemed to be over thrown or off target more often. Doctson saw more under thrown jump balls.
I think what makes Doctson special (his ball-in-air efforts) is still unique to him but I could see the argument for Garrett being a better route runner. Similar bodies and styles though.
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Zyphros
Footballguy
Here's my notes so far on Doctson:
He has a good get off, with above average feet. Attacks the ball well and goes back to get it. Makes the tough catches and tracks the ball extremely well. Good speed, but not a burner. A little rounded on out routes, has decent sink in his cuts for routes but could definitely be improved. Finds the zones well to get open. Already strong for his frame, can only add to his physicality.
I also made a count for all the draftbreakdown clips that he lined up on the left side 4 times through all videos. Not sure if that's a trend or an anomaly for ~4 games but it's worth mentioning. Doesn't worry me much if at all but people said the same thing about Kevin White if I recall correctly.
He's slowly becoming one of my targets in the late 1st if he's available for me there.
He has a good get off, with above average feet. Attacks the ball well and goes back to get it. Makes the tough catches and tracks the ball extremely well. Good speed, but not a burner. A little rounded on out routes, has decent sink in his cuts for routes but could definitely be improved. Finds the zones well to get open. Already strong for his frame, can only add to his physicality.
I also made a count for all the draftbreakdown clips that he lined up on the left side 4 times through all videos. Not sure if that's a trend or an anomaly for ~4 games but it's worth mentioning. Doesn't worry me much if at all but people said the same thing about Kevin White if I recall correctly.
He's slowly becoming one of my targets in the late 1st if he's available for me there.
Milkman
Footballguy
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I can't stand when the real height measurements are out and Rotoworld keeps spewing the old fake ones.
Dan Hindery
Moderator
Probably solidified himself as a top 5 pick in rookie drafts and I understand the talk of him as high as #2 (though I have him 3rd).
Worth keeping in mind that he's 2.5 years older than Treadwell and Elliott though. Doctson turned 23 late last season while Treadwell and Elliott don't even turn 21 until this summer.
Worth keeping in mind that he's 2.5 years older than Treadwell and Elliott though. Doctson turned 23 late last season while Treadwell and Elliott don't even turn 21 until this summer.
Dan Hindery
Moderator
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I expect this is too specific for this thread, but figured I'd put it out there in case anyone else is struggling...
I've got the 1.01 in a devy league that's most certainly Doctson. And might have an opportunity to add a bit to it to get Treadwell. Tough call and one I'll be struggling with until we draft, which is thankfully after I get to see where they get drafted and to who. But I may need to decide long before that, and I'm still leaning Treadwell.
I've got the 1.01 in a devy league that's most certainly Doctson. And might have an opportunity to add a bit to it to get Treadwell. Tough call and one I'll be struggling with until we draft, which is thankfully after I get to see where they get drafted and to who. But I may need to decide long before that, and I'm still leaning Treadwell.
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Milkman
Footballguy
I'm not sure this will help at all but don't like I Treadwell much at all after the combine. He was underwhelming to say the least. Where as Doctson ran fast enough and looked great in drills. Doctson>>>Treadwell imo.
Honestly, Treadwell on tape doesn't do nearly as much for me as Doctson. Could end up being an AJ Green / Julio Jones draft where there's no wrong pick.
I get a man among boys vibe from Doctson. The way he tracks the ball and attacks it while it's in the air is phenomenal. I have him rated about Kevin White if they both came out in the same class.
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Gandalf
Footballguy
Okay - watched the clips. I feel like there is some ODB to Doctson's game... His body control, ability to track and adjust to the ball in the air. I think he plays quicker and faster than his 40 time suggests too and his time wasn't even slow.
Having a tough time deciding between him and treadwell who I also like. Many of the videos on Treadwell seemed like screens. I wish Treadwell ran. It's probabl going to come down to landing spot.
One more thought is that Doctson had a worse QB this year I think. Chad Kelly I'm sure helped Treadwell more.
Having a tough time deciding between him and treadwell who I also like. Many of the videos on Treadwell seemed like screens. I wish Treadwell ran. It's probabl going to come down to landing spot.
One more thought is that Doctson had a worse QB this year I think. Chad Kelly I'm sure helped Treadwell more.
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The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Zach Whitman @zjwhitman 21h21 hours ago
Over the last 17 draft classes, there have been only 13 wide receivers to match the speed, vertical, broad, and height of Josh Doctson.
Zach Whitman @zjwhitman 21h21 hours ago
That group includes Calvin, Allen, and Andre Johnson. (as well as Greg Little and Justin Hunter, but Doctson is good at football)
Over the last 17 draft classes, there have been only 13 wide receivers to match the speed, vertical, broad, and height of Josh Doctson.
Zach Whitman
That group includes Calvin, Allen, and Andre Johnson. (as well as Greg Little and Justin Hunter, but Doctson is good at football)
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
23 should be right. He started college in 2011.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Don't remember where I saw it but he was born in 1992. So if you saw dec 3rd bday wishes his birth date is December 3rd 1992. That all adds up as he was a freshman in 2011.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
It really doesn't matter as far as Dynasty goes
minister
Footballguy
Just starting my rookie WR evaluations.
Discounting other intangibles (coaching, scheme, injuries, etc.) I would expect a 23.2 year old Doctson to be more advanced/polished than say a 20.7 year old Treadwell.
spider321
Footballguy
...and, "in the long run", I would expect Treadwell to have around 2.5 years of prime production left after Doctson begins to decline.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
spider321
Footballguy
Of course.
In my dynasty, if I'm choosing between 2 guys who I believe to be close in ability, I'm going to take the one who is 2.5 years younger every, single time.
Borden
Footballguy
I think what you're discounting are actually major factors in scheme and coaching. Going to the next level he will need to improve his route running but there's signs that it might be more because of scheme and coaching then it is a potential inability.
From a physical aspect, he put up the 3rd fastest 60 yard shuttle and the 3rd fastest 20 yard shuttle (only 0.01 seconds behind 1st place). His low spot was 9th in the 3 cone but he still but up better numbers in this drill than Fuller and Boyd. On the mental side it's really difficult to say since but really I don't think that a player needs to be that smart to run proper routes. Plus, on the field he appears to be smart enough to manipulate DBs and know to work back to the QB at times. This isn't really much of an indicator of intelligence but it's better than nothing.
Borden
Footballguy
I think at this point Doctson has shown that he has the ability to improve his 3 biggest flaws.
Route running, he did well in the agility drills.
Too light, he added weight already for the combine.
Release vs jam, learning how to get through jams is a lot of technique. As he adds weight/strength this will improve too. His BP wasn't great but it wasn't horrible either.
Route running, he did well in the agility drills.
Too light, he added weight already for the combine.
Release vs jam, learning how to get through jams is a lot of technique. As he adds weight/strength this will improve too. His BP wasn't great but it wasn't horrible either.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The main drills for Doctson that I was interested in were his 3 cone and 10 yard shuttle as I had some questions about his short area quickness. He performed better than I expected in both drills. So this somewhat alleviates my concern about his short area quickness.
At the same time I have grown progressively more skeptical of the accuracy of combine data as it is reported. I have seen examples of people doing independent measurements and forming different results from the same event. I think there is misinformation in how the data is recorded and reported.
I think Doctson is a 1st round talent at WR and the best WR prospect of the 2016 draft class. I have no reservations about the Vikings drafting him with pick 23 but I doubt he is going to be available that late. I don't think he would be worth giving up a lot for them to move up and get him. I still consider Parker a better prospect but I think they may be closer than I thought they were a week or so ago.
At the same time I have grown progressively more skeptical of the accuracy of combine data as it is reported. I have seen examples of people doing independent measurements and forming different results from the same event. I think there is misinformation in how the data is recorded and reported.
I think Doctson is a 1st round talent at WR and the best WR prospect of the 2016 draft class. I have no reservations about the Vikings drafting him with pick 23 but I doubt he is going to be available that late. I don't think he would be worth giving up a lot for them to move up and get him. I still consider Parker a better prospect but I think they may be closer than I thought they were a week or so ago.
Faust
MVP
TCU WR Josh Doctson's Combine results tested out in the 94th percentile of NFL receivers in the SPARQ system.
"Doctson had an incredible day," wrote Rotoworld contributor Zach Whitman. "He ... showed excellent explosion, speed, and agility at 6’2″/200. It’s hard to imagine him not being selected in the top 20 picks in April." Doctson measured in a bit shorter but also a bit stouter than his listed TCU dimensions. He was by all accounts more impressive in testing than anyone expected. We knew he'd slay the vertical leap (41 inches) and broad jump (almost 11 feet), but Doctson also impressed in other tests, the most ballyhooed of which was the 40-yard dash (4.50 seconds). NFL Media analyst Bucky Brooks likens Doctson to DeAndre Hopkins.
Source: Three Sigma Athlete
Mar 2 - 3:50 PM
Borden
Footballguy
Coleman could slip in there and I think Boyd could too. Not as likely for Boyd but it's possible.
Milkman
Footballguy
Yeah I was thinking Coleman as well but I don't see it after that combine performance by Doctson.
Borden
Footballguy
Coleman will likely get a bump once he runs at his pro day though. Maybe not but if he a 4.39 or better his stock/buzz will go up. A "decent" or better landing spot could boost him way up too. As could Doctson's but we're just talking about potential options to for going in front of Doctson.
