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Mike Tomlin...is it time to go?

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12 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

Maybe another coach could bring them to success, and Tomlin's name did come up in the Monday Night Football talk, but I bet he stays at least until Big Ben retires. He did inherit a great team, but it's impossible to know how any other coach would have done during the same tenure as Tomlin.

I do think Vrabel will be a great HC, and Patricia. If I had to choose 1 person to replace Tomlin it probably would be Patricia. 
I don't think Tomlin should be replaced, but I won't lie, it does annoy the ##### out of me when they lose to bad teams.

truthfully Jax isn't that bad, they have excellent young dynamic players all over that defense and add in Marcel Dareus and Calias Campbell, plus Fournette, they look like the seahawks did before they won, they just need to not be fooled by Blake Bortles

 

However this is twice that Tomlin got mouth punched by them and didn't have his team ready either time, and they adjusted poorly, maybe just Haley needs to go? But I cant help but think this team has underachieved

 

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2 hours ago, Koya said:

The Steelers were simply not that good this year - they were a disaster early, and did well in a crap division.  Not sure it's really Tomlin's fault and as noted, who do you get in his stead? Figure go one last time real hard with Big Ben next year and then look to the future.

Personally, I can't stand Tomlin - with all the BS cheating the Pats do (and deserve more than they've been handed down in punishment), I've still NEVER seen something as pathetic, cowardly, dangerous and egregious as when Tomlin interfered with an ongoing play from the sideline some time back - it has always had me in a position where I respect his success, but lost all respect for the man.

That said, he's the HC in Pitt, they are not a young team, and I don't see doing better for next year.  After that, it's time to likely move on. 

Funny that you mentioned that incident, as when I was reading the earlier parts of this thread, I thought to myself about semi seriously posting ' He should have been fired the second he interfered with an on field play' 

Not only was the act itself an utter disgrace, but the way he attempted to disguise it as an accident and his general attitude in the aftermath of it was utterly repugnant. 

Like you, I lost any form of respect for him in that moment, and can scarcely contain my glee every time he fails as a coach. 

Apologies for my strong words and slight thread derailment ///end rant 

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16 minutes ago, TartanLion said:

Funny that you mentioned that incident, as when I was reading the earlier parts of this thread, I thought to myself about semi seriously posting ' He should have been fired the second he interfered with an on field play' 

Not only was the act itself an utter disgrace, but the way he attempted to disguise it as an accident and his general attitude in the aftermath of it was utterly repugnant. 

Like you, I lost any form of respect for him in that moment, and can scarcely contain my glee every time he fails as a coach. 

Apologies for my strong words and slight thread derailment ///end rant 

Didnt cowher nearly clothesline someone running past on a kick return too????

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Just now, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Didnt cowher nearly clothesline someone running past on a kick return too????

Yeah, that happened in DUVAL county :lol:  The Steelers had the game winning FG blocked and it was returned for a TD.  Cowher was about 5 yards on the field during the return and looked like he wanted to clothesline the guy.  I guess Cowher got a pass because it didn't effect the play.

I never think about that stupid sideline incident with Tomlin so it's unexpected (but not surprising) that people hate Tomlin for it.

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Tomlin is probably not even upset at the loss. He knew he had no chance to beat the Pats. He also looked like a bonehead for cutting James Harrison after the Pats signed him. He showed them though.

Right now he's thinking, 'Ha, we didn't even make it to the AFC championship and you'll have to pay Harrison for nothing. I win, I beat you Belicheck/Brady!'

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2 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

truthfully Jax isn't that bad, they have excellent young dynamic players all over that defense and add in Marcel Dareus and Calias Campbell, plus Fournette, they look like the seahawks did before they won, they just need to not be fooled by Blake Bortles

 

However this is twice that Tomlin got mouth punched by them and didn't have his team ready either time, and they adjusted poorly, maybe just Haley needs to go? But I cant help but think this team has underachieved

 

Pitt was my Super bowl pick..most talented team in the NFL. 

I thought Pitt would destroy Jax at home and the edge out the Pats and then beat Minny, Philly or the Saints. in the Super Bowl.

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Compare Tomlin, McCarthy, Payton:

Payton and McCarthy hired 2006, Tomlin hired 2007.

Each has one Superbowl ring, and lots of playoff disappointments.

Each has had a strong QB, surrounded by decent-but-not-great supporting cast throughout their careers.

Remarkably similar records.

Who do you pick if hiring a Head Coach today?

Tomlin

Regular season:116–60 (.659)

Postseason:8–6 (.571)

Career:124–66 (.653)

McCarthy

Regular season:121–70–1 (.633)

Postseason:10–8 (.556)

Career:131–78–1 (.626)

Payton

Regular season:105–71 (.597)

Postseason:7–5 (.583)

Career:112–76 (.596)

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I think Tomlin's biggest flaw is his lack of attention to detail.  His teams never look like they are all about the details.  The offense often makes big plays and scores in almost a schoolyard kind of way, whether it be LeVeon Bell making one of those crazy runs, Brown making catches no one else can make or Ben moving around and finding a way to find an open receiver.  Shoot, even the Super Bowl Tomlin won (with Cowher's team), they were losing at the end to a 9-7 Cardinals team before Holmes made a great individual play to get them down inside the 10 and then the Ben to Holmes winner (two classic schoolyard plays).  Neither of those plays happened by design.  It was players making plays.  I am not saying Tomlin is a bad coach, but he is nothing special, and his W/L record is inflated beyond belief thanks to inheriting a Super Bowl team with an all-world defense and then having just ridiculous amounts of talent on offense in the 10s.  I never walk away from a Steelers game thinking they won because he outcoached the other guy. 

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4 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

In charge? Probably not. Consulted on or signed off on? I would think so.

I don’t think he even has much to do with the offensive or defensive gameplan. Probably time to fire the coordinators again and blame them.

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3 hours ago, CletiusMaximus said:

Compare Tomlin, McCarthy, Payton:

Payton and McCarthy hired 2006, Tomlin hired 2007.

Each has one Superbowl ring, and lots of playoff disappointments.

Each has had a strong QB, surrounded by decent-but-not-great supporting cast throughout their careers.

Remarkably similar records.

Who do you pick if hiring a Head Coach today?

Tomlin

Regular season:116–60 (.659)

Postseason:8–6 (.571)

Career:124–66 (.653)

McCarthy

Regular season:121–70–1 (.633)

Postseason:10–8 (.556)

Career:131–78–1 (.626)

Payton

Regular season:105–71 (.597)

Postseason:7–5 (.583)

Career:112–76 (.596)

 I would take either because Tomlin has had superior players vs those two and it is not even close.

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9 minutes ago, bucksoh said:

 I would take either because Tomlin has had superior players vs those two and it is not even close.

It would be interesting to see how the rosters actually look

I know Tomlin hasn’t had the superior talent at the most important position, QB

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11 hours ago, lod001 said:

Tomlin is probably not even upset at the loss. He knew he had no chance to beat the Pats. He also looked like a bonehead for cutting James Harrison after the Pats signed him. He showed them though.

Right now he's thinking, 'Ha, we didn't even make it to the AFC championship and you'll have to pay Harrison for nothing. I win, I beat you Belicheck/Brady!'

James Harrison would have made zero difference on the game last week.  This is the funny thing:  one of the most frequent criticisms I hear about Tomlin is his lack of player discipline.  Then he cuts a guy that had become a cancer: snoring loudly in meetings, not mentoring his fellow linebackers, etc. and he gets criticized for cutting him.

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13 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

truthfully Jax isn't that bad, they have excellent young dynamic players all over that defense and add in Marcel Dareus and Calias Campbell, plus Fournette, they look like the seahawks did before they won, they just need to not be fooled by Blake Bortles

 

However this is twice that Tomlin got mouth punched by them and didn't have his team ready either time, and they adjusted poorly, maybe just Haley needs to go? But I cant help but think this team has underachieved

 

I agree they underachieved this season but the bottom line is the Steelers defense was not that good and when they lost Shazier they became worse.   They made a lot of crappy QBs look good this season and were able to pull out victories because of their superior talent on offense.  On Sunday that was not enough.

Why was the defense so bad?   Certainly coaching is a part of it and I think Keith Butler should be on the hot seat but it also comes down to a mostly inexperienced secondary and insufficient talent and depth at the linebacker position.   And on Sunday I think the supposed strength of the defense, the defensive line, was badly outplayed by the Jaguars offensive line and that really wasn't the fault of coaching -- that falls squarely on those players.   

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18 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

11 seasons:  Never had a losing season, won division 6 titles, made playoffs 8 seasons, 2 SB appearances, 1 SB trophy.  Averages 10+ wins per season.

In understand your disappointment, I really do, but not a good coach?   Come on...

 

Decent coach for sure, but with all the talent he's had, it's inexcusable to never had made the SB with the Ben/Bell/AB core. He's horrible at in game management, making adjustments, etc.  It wasn't just this game that set me off, I've been wanting a change for a few years now.  But he and the coordinators completely botched the Jax game.  That is on HIM.  I don't know who would be better that's available, I'm just saying things need to change.  I know I'm not the only Steeler fan who feels this way.  They always play down to their competition, and again, that's on him.  They routinely lose games to teams they have no business losing to in the regular season.  He gets more credit than he deserves.  

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7 minutes ago, Sitch said:

 

Decent coach for sure, but with all the talent he's had, it's inexcusable to never had made the SB with the Ben/Bell/AB core. He's horrible at in game management, making adjustments, etc.  It wasn't just this game that set me off, I've been wanting a change for a few years now.  But he and the coordinators completely botched the Jax game.  That is on HIM.  I don't know who would be better that's available, I'm just saying things need to change.  I know I'm not the only Steeler fan who feels this way.  They always play down to their competition, and again, that's on him.  They routinely lose games to teams they have no business losing to in the regular season.  He gets more credit than he deserves.  

Yes and fortunately it isn't the fans running the team.  

Again I understand your frustration but changing a head coach with his track record without having a really good replacement in mind is ridiculous.  You may not like Tomlin but the Steelers could do much worse.  

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3 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

Yes and fortunately it isn't the fans running the team.  

Again I understand your frustration but changing a head coach with his track record without having a really good replacement in mind is ridiculous.  You may not like Tomlin but the Steelers could do much worse.  

Most teams would kill for the Steelers success over the last 10 years.  Tomlin has obvious flaws but he is not going any where. 

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Just now, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Sorry somehow colbert got autocorrected to gilbert....shrug

Ha ha, happens to me all the time.  The combo of Colbert & Tomlin has been pretty good.  

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12 hours ago, bucksoh said:

 I would take either because Tomlin has had superior players vs those two and it is not even close.

Not the superior QB by a long shot plus they have NE to contend with every year.  Other than about a 3 year run by the Seahawks the NFC hasn't had a dominant team for the Packers or Saints to deal with.  As a Packer fan I feel like the Packers have underachieved under McCarthy's leadership.  It's not all on him as Thompson has fallen off a GM but 1 Superbowl appearance with the world's best QB is rather disappointing.

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Mike Tomlin - DT - Steelers

Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio reports a group of the Steelers' limited partners want coach Mike Tomlin fired.

Tomlin has never had a losing season in 11 years with the Steelers while winning at least 10 games eight times, but that record has not prevented his name from popping up in rumors the last couple years. To be fair to the rabble-rousers, the Steelers have not been to the Super Bowl since 2010 and have made the Championship Game just once over that run, arguably an underachievement given the talent on the roster. Still, it remains unlikely Tomlin is shown the door, but perhaps the discontent will lead to changes to his staff. For what it is worth, Tomlin did not throw his support behind OC Todd Haley when given the chance during his season-ending press conference.

Source: Pro Football Talk

Jan 16 - 12:20 PM

 

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21 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Tennessee going after vrabel is the rumor. Maybe schwartz to arizona? Dont know but arizona without a qb is in a bad spot.

If Shurmur goes to Arizona he could bring Keenum or Bradford with him.

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16 hours ago, CletiusMaximus said:

 

Each has had a strong QB, surrounded by decent-but-not-great supporting cast throughout their careers.

I think you could call Ben's supporting cast "great".

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On 1/14/2018 at 8:33 PM, IvanKaramazov said:

Call me crazy, but perhaps the coach should have factored in the possibility of a botched onside attempt.  Those happen routinely.

20% of the time, it works every time.

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50 minutes ago, Casting Couch said:

Mike Tomlin - DT - Steelers

Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio reports a group of the Steelers' limited partners want coach Mike Tomlin fired.

Tomlin has never had a losing season in 11 years with the Steelers while winning at least 10 games eight times, but that record has not prevented his name from popping up in rumors the last couple years. To be fair to the rabble-rousers, the Steelers have not been to the Super Bowl since 2010 and have made the Championship Game just once over that run, arguably an underachievement given the talent on the roster. Still, it remains unlikely Tomlin is shown the door, but perhaps the discontent will lead to changes to his staff. For what it is worth, Tomlin did not throw his support behind OC Todd Haley when given the chance during his season-ending press conference.

Source: Pro Football Talk

Jan 16 - 12:20 PM

 

I think Haley is definitely gone.   

I would not be upset with a change in DC either.  I think Butler is a good coach but he is a carryover from Dick LeBeau and I think maybe a fresh approach on defense might be needed.

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1 hour ago, Casting Couch said:

Mike Tomlin - DT - Steelers

Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio reports a group of the Steelers' limited partners want coach Mike Tomlin fired.

Tomlin has never had a losing season in 11 years with the Steelers while winning at least 10 games eight times, but that record has not prevented his name from popping up in rumors the last couple years. To be fair to the rabble-rousers, the Steelers have not been to the Super Bowl since 2010 and have made the Championship Game just once over that run, arguably an underachievement given the talent on the roster. Still, it remains unlikely Tomlin is shown the door, but perhaps the discontent will lead to changes to his staff. For what it is worth, Tomlin did not throw his support behind OC Todd Haley when given the chance during his season-ending press conference.

Source: Pro Football Talk

Jan 16 - 12:20 PM

 

NEVER listen to anything PFT has to say about the Steelers. 

Never ever.

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You know how when you're debating whether to drop a player from your fantasy team, and one of the questions you ask is, "If I cut him, would someone else snatch him up"?

If Mike Tomlin got fired tomorrow approximately 30 other teams would have him on speed dial. Hell, even Kraft might make a "This conversation never happened, but ..." call.

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29 minutes ago, zftcg said:

You know how when you're debating whether to drop a player from your fantasy team, and one of the questions you ask is, "If I cut him, would someone else snatch him up"?

If Mike Tomlin got fired tomorrow approximately 30 other teams would have him on speed dial. Hell, even Kraft might make a "This conversation never happened, but ..." call.

No. 

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12 minutes ago, mjb03003 said:

No. 

Hmm, you make a good point.

Anyway, we'll never get a chance to find out, because he won't be fired. The Steelers have had three HCs in the past 50 years, and the previous two were never fired despite going through stretches significantly worse than anything that's happened during Tomlin's tenure.

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Whether he deserves to be fired or not, or whether he will be fired or not, I don't think there's 30 other NFL teams lining up for his services. It's widely understood that he's clueless in game, and he has underachieved considering the talent he's had to work with. 

Edited by mjb03003
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22 minutes ago, zftcg said:

Hmm, you make a good point.

Anyway, we'll never get a chance to find out, because he won't be fired. The Steelers have had three HCs in the past 50 years, and the previous two were never fired despite going through stretches significantly worse than anything that's happened during Tomlin's tenure.

There is no loyalty in sports....

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11 minutes ago, mjb03003 said:

Whether he deserves to be fired or not, or whether he will be fired or not, I don't think there's 30 other NFL teams lining up for his services. It's widely understood that he's clueless in game, and he has underachieved considering the talent he's had to work with. 

No not 30 teams but if he got fired today and the Giants, AZ and Titans jobs are not filled he'd be able to shot call his landing spot.

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8 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

Yes and fortunately it isn't the fans running the team.  

Again I understand your frustration but changing a head coach with his track record without having a really good replacement in mind is ridiculous.  You may not like Tomlin but the Steelers could do much worse.  

Bottom line is with the talent on this team, no excuses for not even getting to the SB since 2010.  This is not like the Browns or other teams that are devoid of talent.  I know he's not going anywhere but I don't have much confidence in him to get past NE as long as Brady/BB are there...

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2 hours ago, mjb03003 said:

Whether he deserves to be fired or not, or whether he will be fired or not, I don't think there's 30 other NFL teams lining up for his services. It's widely understood that he's clueless in game, and he has underachieved considering the talent he's had to work with. 

Jets fan here who would drive him from Pittsburgh if he would be the coach over Todd Bowles!  

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6 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

Most teams would kill for the Steelers success over the last 10 years.  Tomlin has obvious flaws but he is not going any where. 

Most teams would kill for the talent...which is the reason for the success they have had.

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2 hours ago, menobrown said:

No not 30 teams but if he got fired today and the Giants, AZ and Titans jobs are not filled he'd be able to shot call his landing spot.

and then reality would set in after one season

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As a Patriots fan its easy to see why they lose when they lose (fundamentals.) But its also easy to see there isn't a lot of coaching talent available certainly not as good as Tomlin.

 

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5 minutes ago, GROOT said:

Most teams would kill for the talent...which is the reason for the success they have had.

Steelers have not had top 10 draft pick in over 18 years and  the Jags have picked in the top 10 for 10 straight seasons plus poached big name FA's from other teams.

The Steelers have a better QB, RB and WR aka key fantasy football positions. Some of you can't seem to tell the difference anymore.

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1 hour ago, menobrown said:

Steelers have not had top 10 draft pick in over 18 years and  the Jags have picked in the top 10 for 10 straight seasons plus poached big name FA's from other teams.

The Steelers have a better QB, RB and WR aka key fantasy football positions. Some of you can't seem to tell the difference anymore.

People keep saying Tomlin's got great talent but he and Kevin Colbert are largely responsible for that.  The Steelers are almost always picking late in the draft and are usually up against the cap so they rarely sign high profile FAs. 

I don't think Tomln or Colbert get enough credit for the talent they have

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His emotion and intensity would appeal wonderfully in Philly. Reminds me of Buddy Ryan in many respects. He won one, I get it.  But he comes across as a lot of talk but with multiple post season failures in spite of talent. Thankfully the Eagles have his detached/analytical opposite in Pederson.

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1 hour ago, JetMaxx said:

His emotion and intensity would appeal wonderfully in Philly. Reminds me of Buddy Ryan in many respects. He won one, I get it.  But he comes across as a lot of talk but with multiple post season failures in spite of talent. Thankfully the Eagles have his detached/analytical opposite in Pederson.

Most coaches fail in the playoffs as only one wins it all.  Time will tell about Pederson.  He certainly looks good but I'm not sure we should be anointing him as the next Belichick just yet.   :shrug: 

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7 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

Most coaches fail in the playoffs as only one wins it all.  Time will tell about Pederson.  He certainly looks good but I'm not sure we should be anointing him as the next Belichick just yet.   :shrug: 

Care to explain how my post anointed Pederson as the next Belichick?

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4 hours ago, menobrown said:

Steelers have not had top 10 draft pick in over 18 years and  the Jags have picked in the top 10 for 10 straight seasons plus poached big name FA's from other teams.

The Steelers have a better QB, RB and WR aka key fantasy football positions. Some of you can't seem to tell the difference anymore.

The only position  the Jags have better than the Steelers is Ilb, olb is close, dbs very slight edge to Jags although  thats debatable.

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3 minutes ago, JetMaxx said:

Care to explain how my post anointed Pederson as the next Belichick?

So what exactly was your point by stating Pederson is "thankfully the detached/analytical opposite" of Tomlin?  By that comment, I can only assume that you believe Pederson is already far ahead of Tomlin as a coach.  The only coach who I think we can say with certainty is far ahead of Tomlin is BB.  Pederson has done well in his young career but it's still based off a small sample size and I'm not ready to anoint him as some type of analytic genius just yet.  Tomlin has been very successful as a coach over a very long period so he's obviously doing something right.  

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1 minute ago, bucksoh said:

The only position  the Jags have better than the Steelers is Ilb, olb is close, dbs very slight edge to Jags although  thats debatable.

You see it that way and no way to quantify who is correct but I'll just say I think the Jags DL, LB's and DB's are superior at every position.

I recall listening to a podcast, can't recall if it was a month or two ago but a Move The Sticks Podcast. They were listing players they felt were blue chips on the Jags and they said that a typical SB team will have about 8 blue chips on the whole roster. It's been a month or two so I am may be off a tad on the count but they felt the Jags had 5-6 blue chip players on D and 2-3 more that were real close and they thought got there for 8 total that were either there or right on the cusp. That's just the defense getting in range of same amount of blue chip players you'd see on a total SB team. This is just two guys opinions(the podcast hosts) which like my opinion vs your opinion is not quantifiable but it's reflective of the talent on that side of the ball for that team, at least I think so.

 

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1 hour ago, menobrown said:

You see it that way and no way to quantify who is correct but I'll just say I think the Jags DL, LB's and DB's are superior at every position.

I recall listening to a podcast, can't recall if it was a month or two ago but a Move The Sticks Podcast. They were listing players they felt were blue chips on the Jags and they said that a typical SB team will have about 8 blue chips on the whole roster. It's been a month or two so I am may be off a tad on the count but they felt the Jags had 5-6 blue chip players on D and 2-3 more that were real close and they thought got there for 8 total that were either there or right on the cusp. That's just the defense getting in range of same amount of blue chip players you'd see on a total SB team. This is just two guys opinions(the podcast hosts) which like my opinion vs your opinion is not quantifiable but it's reflective of the talent on that side of the ball for that team, at least I think so.

 

I see we're using the term blue chipper loosely, I see Calis Cambell, and Smith followed by a bunch of good players

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9 hours ago, bucksoh said:

The only position  the Jags have better than the Steelers is Ilb, olb is close, dbs very slight edge to Jags although  thats debatable.

It's not slight, or debatable. Their CBs are way better. Also, their ILBs and pass rush played at a much higher level this year. Part of that is the time allowed by blanket coverage by the secondary, but they also were able to put a lot of pressure on QBs and blow up the run.

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9 hours ago, bucksoh said:

The only position  the Jags have better than the Steelers is Ilb, olb is close, dbs very slight edge to Jags although  thats debatable.

Jacksonvilles secondary is light years better than pitt....ramsey...boyue had allowed one pass td all sesson. ...pitt secondary is weak spot of the defense

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15 hours ago, Sitch said:

Bottom line is with the talent on this team, no excuses for not even getting to the SB since 2010.  This is not like the Browns or other teams that are devoid of talent.  I know he's not going anywhere but I don't have much confidence in him to get past NE as long as Brady/BB are there...

We are all fantasy football players so we look at the Steelers as loaded - but their defense hasn't been all that great in those 7 years we are talking about here.

And holding any team to that standard ("not even getting to the SB since 2010") seems a little tough. Only 3 AFC  franchises have made it to the Super Bowl in those six years (and that is not likely to change in 2017) and the Patriot and Broncos teams that took up five of the six available berths during that time frame weren't exactly pushovers.

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