Have these yahoos thrown rocks, bottles, burning flares, or explosive devises at police yet? Have they burnt flags, destroyed property, and disrupted normal activities? In Oakland, there was over $2 million worth of damage inflicted upon the city and another $5 million costs to the city in having to police them. These idiots are maybe disrupting the work of a few federal workers, but other than that no one is threatened or bothered by their takeover. And there is only a handful of them. It is stupid to compare the two, but I am not the one posting the ridiculous 'what if they were black' strawman.
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Oregon Militia Takeover - Ammon Bundy arrested (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter PlasmaDogPlasma
- Start date
Rove!
Footballguy
I'm too lazy to look, but I think this poo flinging exercise began by the implication that these troublemakers were getting preferential treatment because they are white - which then devolved into an examination of how other trouble making groups were dealt with....
Arizona Ron
Footballguy
They broke into a Federal building and are occupying it. Who cares if their guns are illegal or not; what they're doing is illegal regardless of their intentions or motivations.
This isn't a peaceful protest - It's anarchy.
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The General
Footballguy
Rove!
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
I think the response by the Fed's would be similar if this were an armed Black Panther group taking over some building in BFE.
The coverage from the FOX commentators would be different. That fair to say?
The coverage from the FOX commentators would be different. That fair to say?
moleculo
Footballguy
the mere fact that they are armed and have threatened to use said arms makes the actions violent.They have yet to do anything violent. They aren't rioting or looting or shooting each other. We'll see what happens once the FBI starts talking to with them.Nobody "takes offense" to them being armed. They just have enough common sense to know that when you have a gun and threaten to use it to defend your illegal activity, you are in fact doing something far different from peaceful protest. As do you, I hope. Although this is good shtick. "It wasn't armed robbery, your honor. I simply asked for some money while holding a gun and threatening to use it if I didn't get what I wanted. More of a loan, really."I don't have a problem with non-violent protests as long as they stay non-violent. If we shut down every protest that illegally occupied government land/buildings there wouldn't be a whole lot of protesting anymore.
Obviously, there are those that take offense to the fact that some of these guys are armed. I don't. Not unless they actually engage in violence. Having a gun isn't violent.
moleculo
Footballguy
i'm not sure how it works in Oregon, but in some places committing a crime is one thing...committing a crime with a firearm is a completely different charge - a felony, probably.
Illegally entering a federal facility is a crime. Brandishing a fire-arm while doing so really, really raises the ante. Bordering on treason, IMO.
Illegally entering a federal facility is a crime. Brandishing a fire-arm while doing so really, really raises the ante. Bordering on treason, IMO.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
The Future Champs
Footballguy
There's no reason to respond to or even acknowledge OWS comments. It's a straw man argument. Plus, debating right wing nut job enablers will suck all the fun out of the thread.
jonessed
Footballguy
If they have threatened the FBI negotiators I would consider that an escalation. I'm not too concerned with what they tell the media.the mere fact that they are armed and have threatened to use said arms makes the actions violent.They have yet to do anything violent. They aren't rioting or looting or shooting each other. We'll see what happens once the FBI starts talking to with them.Nobody "takes offense" to them being armed. They just have enough common sense to know that when you have a gun and threaten to use it to defend your illegal activity, you are in fact doing something far different from peaceful protest. As do you, I hope. Although this is good shtick. "It wasn't armed robbery, your honor. I simply asked for some money while holding a gun and threatening to use it if I didn't get what I wanted. More of a loan, really."
Obviously, there are those that take offense to the fact that some of these guys are armed. I don't. Not unless they actually engage in violence. Having a gun isn't violent.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Yes but Fox's nonstop coverage would be totally justified because someone on MSNBC or DailyKos did something similar, once.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
When you're doing something illegal and brandishing a weapon the threat of violence is implied.
I am loving this argument, though. It produces some excellent hypothetical scenarios. "Hostages? Why, I have no idea what you're talking about, sir. We are simply exercising our rights under the first and second amendments by standing at the entrance to this bank brandishing weapons and shouting at the patrons that we'd like them to remain with us for an extended, indefinite time period. Is it our fault that they assumed we'd shoot them if they tried to leave?"
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cstu
Footballguy
Unreal. This shows the level of stupidity we're dealing with.
This line of argument was started because the totally ridiculous and stupid argument that this would be handled differently if they were black/Muslim. That was the Strawman. HTH, but I am sure it won't. They hypocrisy by the ones screaming hypocrisy is crazy. The election season is really bringing out the stupid.
The General
Footballguy
I expect that.But seriously even among Fox News fan would they disagree with what I originally said?
cstu
Footballguy
Going a little far with treason, but there is a huge difference between breaking and entering unarmed vs. armed.
In Massachusetts it's a maximum of 20 years unarmed but if done with a firearm it's a minimum 15 year sentence with a maximum of life.
cstu
Footballguy
If armed black or Muslims took over a government building there would be the same level of outrage.
The General
Footballguy
Handled differently - reaction from the Feds - I would say no. Covered differently I would say yes.
moleculo
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
If the guys had videos talking about the Bible leading to violence, threatening the FED's, etc. It would be WW III meltdown. Sean Hannity would probably cream himself on air.
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The Future Champs
Footballguy
. And what does OWS have to do with anything? That it somehow relates to a hypothetical armed black panther/Muslim takeover? That's the real strawman.
The police respond according to the situation, not the color of skin. If these yahoo took over a building in downtown New York, that would change the response. The color of skin, not so much. OWS was an example which showed that. In most cases the OWS protestors were handled peacefully. When the situation got dangerous or threatening the safety of people or property, then the police escalated. The same exact way this will be handled.
The Future Champs
Footballguy
Alright, agreed. And believe me, I don't want a heavy handed police response to this- waiting them out offers far more comic value, and is also the sensible option - a rare alignment indeed.
But the main point of the response issue doesn't concern the police - as always, it's about the hypocritical FOX news coverage.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Important legal tip to keep in mind: if you are simply holding a gun and don't actually tell the woman you might shoot her if she doesn't do what you want, it's actually consensual sex accompanied by a valid exercise of your Second Amendment rights, not rape.
moleculo
Footballguy
The Future Champs
Footballguy
CBusAlex
Footballguy
Ladsud
Footballguy
I want to be part of the fun, did you read that story about ISIS strapping a bomb onto a 4 year old boy today then blowing him up? Funny stuff.
JerseyToughGuys
Tough Guy
Every news source needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Most with a shovel of salt.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
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Insoxicated
Koya
Footballguy
Arizona Ron
Footballguy
Harry Manback
Footballguy
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Ladsud giving the Oregon dudes a run for their money here.
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Insoxicated
It's going to be interesting to see how they deal with the pent up backlog of demand to visit the Malheur National Park HQ. once this is all said and done. Surely people must be getting anxious at this point, being cut off from such a critical component of our national park system.
JerseyToughGuys
Tough Guy
joffer
Footballguy
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
That's what their pocket versions of The Constitution are for.
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