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timschochet

Flint, Michigan lead poisoning in water supply

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Reading the first few paragraphs, the spin on the story is incredible. Not sure what the real story is or how serious this was, but find a decent source.

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It's a big deal and I it looks like Snyder might have known. He's been a great governor IMO so this is very upsetting.

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I just chose the first one I found. There's tons of them out there. It's all over the news.

This is the sort of story that could help Bernie Sanders, I think...

Not a very good excuse. The writing makes MSNBC sound moderate.

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Also, it's more than lead. There's copper and bacteria in the water. When looking to save money, I don't think water supply should be the spot to cut corners.

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I cannot for the life of me figure out why the city water department, after seeing the sampling results of the raw water, did not adjust it to be less corrosive. Mindboggling (from someone with 30 years in the water business). The NBC article is correct; buffering the water could be done inexpensively. Were they that cash strapped where the cost of water treatment was disregarded? In addition, the costs of the raw water on the infrastructure's lifespan looks like it was never taken into account. Corrosive water = shorter pipe lifespan = more frequent replacement. My guess is that the City does not have any sort of asset management plan.

So shortsighted...

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I cannot for the life of me figure out why the city water department, after seeing the sampling results of the raw water, did not adjust it to be less corrosive. Mindboggling (from someone with 30 years in the water business). The NBC article is correct; buffering the water could be done inexpensively. Were they that cash strapped where the cost of water treatment was disregarded? In addition, the costs of the raw water on the infrastructure's lifespan looks like it was never taken into account. Corrosive water = shorter pipe lifespan = more frequent replacement. My guess is that the City does not have any sort of asset management plan.

So shortsighted...

Forget it Bakes, it's Flint Town.
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I cannot for the life of me figure out why the city water department, after seeing the sampling results of the raw water, did not adjust it to be less corrosive. Mindboggling (from someone with 30 years in the water business). The NBC article is correct; buffering the water could be done inexpensively. Were they that cash strapped where the cost of water treatment was disregarded? In addition, the costs of the raw water on the infrastructure's lifespan looks like it was never taken into account. Corrosive water = shorter pipe lifespan = more frequent replacement. My guess is that the City does not have any sort of asset management plan.

So shortsighted...

Its Flint. Horrible City mgmt., cash strapped. Also MDEQ is the real culprit because they should have monitored this much more closely. MDEQ is horribly managed as well. Another enormous bureaucratic wasteland. Just like MDOT.

Not sure how Timmy is tying this in to anything Sanders related though...

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I have a facility in Flint, MI. Been going there for almost 20 years. That part of the country has been a disaster since I have been going there. The recession of 2008 was the final nail. Flint is dead. Never coming back.

Detroit and Flint are beyond broke, poorly managed and full of corruption. The MI DEQ is very understaffed and poorly managed. Throw in the corruption at the state and you get Detroit and Flint. It is a shame how citizens of that area are being treated.

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I cannot for the life of me figure out why the city water department, after seeing the sampling results of the raw water, did not adjust it to be less corrosive. Mindboggling (from someone with 30 years in the water business). The NBC article is correct; buffering the water could be done inexpensively. Were they that cash strapped where the cost of water treatment was disregarded? In addition, the costs of the raw water on the infrastructure's lifespan looks like it was never taken into account. Corrosive water = shorter pipe lifespan = more frequent replacement. My guess is that the City does not have any sort of asset management plan.

So shortsighted...

I don't think "the city" of Flint decided to switch water sources. Michigan has some weird law where the state can temporarily take over local municipal governments if the town has financial problems. Something like that. Anyway, Governor Snyder appointed to Flint a city manager whose power overrides everything (even elected officials like mayor, city council, etc.). That guy did this, iirc.

Edited by VandyMan

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I cannot for the life of me figure out why the city water department, after seeing the sampling results of the raw water, did not adjust it to be less corrosive. Mindboggling (from someone with 30 years in the water business). The NBC article is correct; buffering the water could be done inexpensively. Were they that cash strapped where the cost of water treatment was disregarded? In addition, the costs of the raw water on the infrastructure's lifespan looks like it was never taken into account. Corrosive water = shorter pipe lifespan = more frequent replacement. My guess is that the City does not have any sort of asset management plan.

So shortsighted...

I don't think "the city" of Flint decided to switch water sources. Michigan has some weird law where the state can temporarily take over local municipal governments if the town has financial problems. Something like that. Anyway, Governor Snyder appointed to Flint a city manager whose power overrides everything (even elected officials like mayor, city council, etc.). That guy did this, iirc.
If that is what happened then Snyder is in huge trouble.

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http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/01/07/flint-water/78404218/

Snyder/State just activated it's EOC, trying to get Fed funds now for fixing the problem...

Snyder enacted a State of Emergency in order to get the Feds involved ASAP. Huge deal.

Flint mayor: Water fix could cost as much as $1.5B

635652989892645519-Livengood-Chad.png Chad Livengood, Detroit News Lansing Bureau 10:59 a.m. EST January 8, 2016
B99343672Z.1_20160107115518_000_G6KOLGGN

Gov. Rick Snyder, right, met Thursday morning with Flint Mayor Karen Weaver to discuss the city’s on-going lead contaminated water crisis two days after declaring a state of emergency in Genesee County.

(Photo: Chad Livengood / The Detroit News)Buy Photo

Lansing — Flint Mayor Karen Weaver said Thursday replacing her city’s myriad lead-leaching water pipes could cost as much as $1.5 billion, while the state’s top health official deemed Flint’s water unsafe to drink without filtration.

“We have not done a final assessment of that,” Weaver said Thursday after a closed-door meeting with Gov. Rick Snyder at his Lansing office. “We’ve heard from millions up to $1.5 billion. We’re doing assessments right now to see what it’s going to cost.”

Hoping to establish “a very close partnership,” Snyder met Thursday morning with Weaver to discuss the city’s drinking water crisis two days after declaring a state of emergency in Genesee County.

Even though Flint’s water problems have persisted for 19 months, state officials began kicking their response to the crisis into gear Thursday.

The State Emergency Operations Center began deploying state workers to begin educating Flint residents on getting children tested for lead and installing water filters on their faucets to block harmful contaminants.

52815481001_4689701869001_4689602203001-

Gov. Rick Snyder met Thursday morning with Flint Mayor Karen Weaver to discuss the city’s ongoing lead contaminated water crisis two days after declaring a state of emergency in Genesee County.

“We don’t want, at this time, people using the city water,” said Dr. Eden Wells, the state’s chief medical executive. “They should be using filters and/or bottled water at this time. This needs to happen until the health alert is lifted.”

Officials don’t know how long the health emergency in Flint will persist or how widespread lead poisoning is among the city’s 100,000 residents.

Using mapping software as well as water and blood testing results, state workers are starting to assess which areas of Flint have the highest concentrations of lead contamination, said Capt. Chris Kelenske, deputy director of emergency management at the Michigan State Police.

“There’s a lot we don’t know yet,” Kelenske said.

Snyder and Weaver agreed to set up an inter-governmental agency group to work with the State Emergency Operations Center, which was activated Tuesday when Snyder issued his emergency declaration over the safety of Flint’s drinking water supply.

“We’re going to continue on the path of taking positive actions to deal with this difficult issue, to do the best we can going forward,” Snyder told reporters.

Flint officials have been seeking forgivable loans from the state and federal government to replace lead-leaching water service pipes linked to elevated lead levels in the blood of some Flint children and adults.

But the looming issue is what it will cost to replace up to 500 miles of underground, 75-year-old iron pipe in Flint that may have been damaged by the flow of the corrosive Flint River water through private and public service lines to about 33,000 homes.

“This is the next infrastructure challenge for the state of Michigan. The governor’s very aware of that,” said Harvey Hollins III, director of Snyder’s Office of Urban and Metropolitan Initiatives.

Snyder has tapped Hollins to be his point person between state agencies and Flint. Discussions are underway to create a new “funding mechanisms” to help Flint and other older urban cities replace aging infrastructure, Hollins said.

“This problem has been exacerbated by the most recent issue that the governor has declared a crisis, so we have to fix that,” he told reporters. “This is a fix that’s going to happen over time, not tomorrow.”

Water filters have been distributed to between 15,000 and 20,000 Flint households, Hollins said, leaving at least 13,000 homes for state and local officials to reach.

In the short term, Snyder vowed Thursday that state agencies would “take tangible measures to improve the water situation in Flint, both in terms of more testing, more filters, long-term solutions, better follow-up health care for the affected individuals, looking at education opportunities.”

The governor said the state would provide a “broad-based suite of services to improve things in Flint for this unfortunate situation that I do apologize for, with respect to our role in this issue.”

Snyder promised to meet with Weaver last week after, for the first time, publicly apologizing for the state Department of Environmental Quality’s mishandling of Flint’s switch to Flint River’s corrosive water that caused lead to leach from the city’s aging pipelines.

“This has been a very productive, positive meeting,” Weaver told reporters. “... This is a partnership, and we’re going to be looking at how we move Flint forward.”

A Snyder-appointed emergency manager, current Detroit Public Schools emergency manager Darnell Earley, was in charge of Flint in April 2014 when the city temporarily switched water supplies from Detroit’s water system to save money while a new regional water pipeline is constructed.

Shortly after Flint switched water supplies, residents began complaining about the strange color, smell and taste of the Flint River water. State officials have admitted the DEQ failed to require Flint to add corrosion controlling agents to the water to prevent lead pipes from leaching the harmful chemical element into the drinking water supply.

“This is a situation that no one wished would have ever happened, but it has happened, and we want to be open and honest and say, ‘Let’s address it, proactively. Let’s go after the issues both in terms of solving what historically what damage has been done, but also being proactive to prevent future damage and then to do good follow-up to say how we can help people who may have higher lead levels,’ ” Snyder said.

“We’re taking this extremely seriously.”

In October, Snyder worked with Weaver’s predecessor, Dayne Walling, to reconnect Flint to the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department’s water supply from Lake Huron.

The Legislature quickly appropriated $6 million to pay for half of the $12 million reconnection cost. The Mott Foundation donated $4 million and the city of Flint had to pay $2 million.

clivengood@detroitnews.com

Edited by BroncoFreak_2K3

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This is an example of our nation's decaying infrastructure. Roads, dams, utilities, and yes our water supply. You're naive if you think the condition of the water pipes in Flint is an isolated case.

Just imagine the outcry if a terrorist contaminated our drinking water.

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This is an example of our nation's decaying infrastructure. Roads, dams, utilities, and yes our water supply. You're naive if you think the condition of the water pipes in Flint is an isolated case.

Just imagine the outcry if a terrorist contaminated our drinking water.

That was my initial thought upon reading this story: how many other cities' water pipes out there are old and corroded?

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This is an example of our nation's decaying infrastructure. Roads, dams, utilities, and yes our water supply. You're naive if you think the condition of the water pipes in Flint is an isolated case.

Just imagine the outcry if a terrorist contaminated our drinking water.

That was my initial thought upon reading this story: how many other cities' water pipes out there are old and corroded?

Link Start at the 24:00 minute mark. A bit over the top with the doomsday feel, but informative imo.

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This is an example of our nation's decaying infrastructure. Roads, dams, utilities, and yes our water supply. You're naive if you think the condition of the water pipes in Flint is an isolated case.

Just imagine the outcry if a terrorist contaminated our drinking water.

That was my initial thought upon reading this story: how many other cities' water pipes out there are old and corroded?

The infrastructure deficit is of course huge, but water systems (and bridges falling down) are the direct worry. There are 100s of water systems that still have lead pipes and leads that should have been removed decades ago. This is the problem with politics. Underground infrastructure does not win votes and is not sexy so it gets ignored in favor of pet projects.

In this particular case, after reading some of the background literature, not only is the governor culpable in a political sense I would suspect you will see massive lawsuits brought against the state. In this case I feel like jail time is not a bad thing for those involved in making these decisions. As someone that is a water resources engineer there is no way an engineer made this decision without political interference of the largest sort.

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Well I don't know about jail time unless you can prove deliberate wrongdoing with knowledge of the consequences. I'm not big on jail for screw ups no matter how massive.

But regardless this is a huge and terrible story, and likely a sign of things to come.

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The infrastructure deficit is of course huge, but water systems (and bridges falling down) are the direct worry. There are 100s of water systems that still have lead pipes and leads that should have been removed decades ago. This is the problem with politics. Underground infrastructure does not win votes and is not sexy so it gets ignored in favor of pet projects.

But it does create jobs and help the economy.

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The Governor of that state should be charged with crimes against humanity. This is such an incredible story.

It all starts with the Financial Emergency Management law that he instituted in his first term of 2011 that allows him to void any election and their results and appoint a city manager. Just another conservative view of minimizing Government and that has now backfired.

Now emails are leaking that he knew about this many many months ago. People can get arrested for having weed in their pocket, but this man can put lead in water and lie to people about it and still Govern a state.

This is a buffoon of a Governor and if he is not arrested in due time, I will be shocked. The Federal investigation that will no doubt start soon should cripple this man and his life for many years just as he did to innocent children of Flint.

There is no hiding this and his lawyers have already told him to stay quiet. When reporters are asking you "How much did you know and when did you know it" is not a good thing for any politician.

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Well I don't know about jail time unless you can prove deliberate wrongdoing with knowledge of the consequences. I'm not big on jail for screw ups no matter how massive.

But regardless this is a huge and terrible story, and likely a sign of things to come.

Did you see the email released today sent from his aide? Once you read that, you will know like everyone this was deliberate.

His career is over, and he has 0 chance of surviving this legally. This is picking up steam and fast.

Here is the email from July of last year, yes JULY!

http://michiganradio.org/post/email-snyders-chief-staff-people-flint-are-getting-blown-us#stream/0

In one e-mail, Dennis Muchmore, Gov. Snyder’s then-chief of staff, writes the following:

“I’m frustrated by the water issue in Flint. I really don’t think people are getting the benefit of the doubt. Now they are concerned and rightfully so about the lead level studies they are receiving from the DEQ samples … These folks are scared and worried about the health impacts and they are basically getting blown off by us (as a state we’re just not sympathizing with their plight).”

Edited by dirtyjay

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This is an example of our nation's decaying infrastructure. Roads, dams, utilities, and yes our water supply. You're naive if you think the condition of the water pipes in Flint is an isolated case.

Just imagine the outcry if a terrorist contaminated our drinking water.

No the pipes are part of a problem, but the chemicals that they put into the water caused the lead in the soldering to dissolve into the water.

The pipes were fine until they switched the water from Lake Huron to the Flint River and added chemicals on top of the chemicals that Ford and DuPont have been dumping there for over a century. There is a lot of information out there on this, this is not a result of anything but human error. The error of the Governor and his need to save money instead of care about people.

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Yeah that's pretty damning. And a year and a half went by before they declared a state of emergency. What happened in the meantime?

He denied, denied, denied. Publicly, over and over again. And now, on January 5th he finally declared a state of Emergency, 17 months later.

Damning to say the least, he is up ##### creek, or the exact creek he decided to force the people of Flint to drink from.

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Crimes Against Humanity???????

Yes they are certain acts which are committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population or an identifiable part of a population. The first prosecution for crimes against humanity took place at the Nuremberg Trials.

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I cannot for the life of me figure out why the city water department, after seeing the sampling results of the raw water, did not adjust it to be less corrosive. Mindboggling (from someone with 30 years in the water business). The NBC article is correct; buffering the water could be done inexpensively. Were they that cash strapped where the cost of water treatment was disregarded? In addition, the costs of the raw water on the infrastructure's lifespan looks like it was never taken into account. Corrosive water = shorter pipe lifespan = more frequent replacement. My guess is that the City does not have any sort of asset management plan.

So shortsighted...

I don't think "the city" of Flint decided to switch water sources. Michigan has some weird law where the state can temporarily take over local municipal governments if the town has financial problems. Something like that. Anyway, Governor Snyder appointed to Flint a city manager whose power overrides everything (even elected officials like mayor, city council, etc.). That guy did this, iirc.
If that is what happened then Snyder is in huge trouble.

That exactly is what happened. It was the city manager appointed by Snyder who made the decision. Rachel Maddow has been on the top of this story for a couple weeks.

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Crimes Against Humanity???????

Yes they are certain acts which are committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population or an identifiable part of a population. The first prosecution for crimes against humanity took place at the Nuremberg Trials.

Sorry dirtyjay but this is way over the top. IF The governor really did what you are accusing him of, then yeah he deserves jail time along with a few others. But I'll withhold judgment on that until a lot more evidence comes out. But knock it off with the Nuremberg stuff. It's offensive to those whose families actually suffered under that regime. Like mine.

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Crimes Against Humanity???????

Yes they are certain acts which are committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population or an identifiable part of a population. The first prosecution for crimes against humanity took place at the Nuremberg Trials.

:lmao: OK, whatever. Continue on!

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I cannot for the life of me figure out why the city water department, after seeing the sampling results of the raw water, did not adjust it to be less corrosive. Mindboggling (from someone with 30 years in the water business). The NBC article is correct; buffering the water could be done inexpensively. Were they that cash strapped where the cost of water treatment was disregarded? In addition, the costs of the raw water on the infrastructure's lifespan looks like it was never taken into account. Corrosive water = shorter pipe lifespan = more frequent replacement. My guess is that the City does not have any sort of asset management plan.

So shortsighted...

I don't think "the city" of Flint decided to switch water sources. Michigan has some weird law where the state can temporarily take over local municipal governments if the town has financial problems. Something like that. Anyway, Governor Snyder appointed to Flint a city manager whose power overrides everything (even elected officials like mayor, city council, etc.). That guy did this, iirc.
If that is what happened then Snyder is in huge trouble.

That exactly is what happened. It was the city manager appointed by Snyder who made the decision. Rachel Maddow has been on the top of this story for a couple weeks.

While Maddow and others have brought it to light the past few weeks, I have been driving from Chicago to Mt. Morris (Town outside Flint) for months trying to repair the mess this water has caused to the pipes of my mother in laws house. Insurance has covered some because of the now widespread issue, but seeing it first hand.

Imagine using the water in your home and it came out looking like pee, it seems easy to say just go buy bottled water. But after 3 days you start to go broke with the amount of water one would need to survive in a family of 4.

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Crimes Against Humanity???????

Yes they are certain acts which are committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population or an identifiable part of a population. The first prosecution for crimes against humanity took place at the Nuremberg Trials.

Sorry dirtyjay but this is way over the top. IF The governor really did what you are accusing him of, then yeah he deserves jail time along with a few others. But I'll withhold judgment on that until a lot more evidence comes out. But knock it off with the Nuremberg stuff. It's offensive to those whose families actually suffered under that regime. Like mine.

He has poisoned water, in a way that if a terrorist did, he would be put to death. Let that sink in a minute. Crimes against humanity is more than enough for a calculated crime with a whole cities life in the wings. Children are now going to suffer for the rest of their life. That is a crime against humanity.

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I didn't know it was affecting you personally dirtyjay. I'm

Sorry about your family and I can see why you might be emotional. Still, using Nuremberg weakens your point; it makes you sound unhinged.

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I didn't know it was affecting you personally dirtyjay. I'm

Sorry about your family and I can see why you might be emotional. Still, using Nuremberg weakens your point; it makes you sound unhinged.

Unhinged? All I said was the first time it was used was then. I in no way compared bad water to that of Nuremburg, just people doing what they do on forums and read it the way they want.

However, the fact that you can not fully understand what is going on is expected, unless you see the issues it is causing. My wifes mother is ill, her neighbor and life long friend has to get blood treatment, and her daughter who is 3 who was born healthy is now ill and has to be in leg braces because her brain does not send the signals to her legs. Please allow me to just say without detail, the doctors can confirm it is because of lead poisoning.

So yes, I will say he has known for over a year and has denied, his decisions lead directly to this and even after he found out about the issue, he denied and did nothing and even told agencies to deny. Read any report you want, this is not opinion, it is fact.

So forgive me for saying it again, this is a crime against humanity. Reserve your judgment of that until you stand in a residential area in Flint and realize how many people are ill. It is tragic.

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Crimes Against Humanity???????

Yes they are certain acts which are committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population or an identifiable part of a population. The first prosecution for crimes against humanity took place at the Nuremberg Trials.

:lmao: OK, whatever. Continue on!

Glad children suffering from lead poisoning at the direction of the Governor is amusing to you.

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Crimes Against Humanity???????

Yes they are certain acts which are committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population or an identifiable part of a population. The first prosecution for crimes against humanity took place at the Nuremberg Trials.

:lmao: OK, whatever. Continue on!

Glad children suffering from lead poisoning at the direction of the Governor is amusing to you.

You jump to way too many conclusions and make too many accusations. What you say and what the facts show are two different things. It was a mistake and seems to have had some terrible consequences, but it was not intentional. If the governor had any idea how bad it really was, he would have done things differently. You make it sound like he ordered the poisoning. It was a sequence of unforseen events. He probably should have responded better and that's what he is guilty of. Hindsight though is easy.

Edited by jon_mx

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Crimes Against Humanity???????

Yes they are certain acts which are committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population or an identifiable part of a population. The first prosecution for crimes against humanity took place at the Nuremberg Trials.

:lmao: OK, whatever. Continue on!

Glad children suffering from lead poisoning at the direction of the Governor is amusing to you.

You jump to way too many conclusions and make too many accusations. What you say and what the facts show are two different things. It was a mistake and seems to have had some terrible consequences, but it was not intentional. If the governor had any idea how bad it really was, he would have done things differently. You make it sound like he ordered the poisoning. It was a sequence of unforseen events. He probably should have responded better and that's what he is guilty of. Hindsight though is easy.

A mistake? Have you followed this story, AT ALL?

The fact you said any of this shows you do not have any, not one single fact.

The bolded says it all. He did have an idea, thats what the email is about and all he did was deny and in part why people are calling for him to resign and why some say he should be arrested.

He did order poisoning, he was told what taking the water from the river would cause. Its why he ordered chemicals to hide it.

Unforeseen? This was literally spelled out to him by the EPA.

But I do not know much about it, other than the facts put out everywhere and I have only sat in city hall in Flint over this for about 50 hours the past 6 months.

Here is the email from July of last year, yes JULY!

http://michiganradio...own-us#stream/0

In one e-mail, Dennis Muchmore, Gov. Snyder’s then-chief of staff, writes the following:

“I’m frustrated by the water issue in Flint. I really don’t think people are getting the benefit of the doubt. Now they are concerned and rightfully so about the lead level studies they are receiving from the DEQ samples … These folks are scared and worried about the health impacts and they are basically getting blown off by us (as a state we’re just not sympathizing with their plight).”

Edited by dirtyjay

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Crimes Against Humanity???????

Yes they are certain acts which are committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population or an identifiable part of a population. The first prosecution for crimes against humanity took place at the Nuremberg Trials.

:lmao: OK, whatever. Continue on!

Glad children suffering from lead poisoning at the direction of the Governor is amusing to you.

You jump to way too many conclusions and make too many accusations. What you say and what the facts show are two different things. It was a mistake and seems to have had some terrible consequences, but it was not intentional. If the governor had any idea how bad it really was, he would have done things differently. You make it sound like he ordered the poisoning. It was a sequence of unforseen events. He probably should have responded better and that's what he is guilty of. Hindsight though is easy.

The fact you said any of this shows you do not have any, not one single fact.

The bolded says it all. He did have an idea, thats what the email is about and all he did was deny.

He did order poisoning, he was told what taking the water from the river would cause. Its why he ordered chemicals to hide it.

Unforeseen? This was literally spelled out to him by the EPA.

But I do not know much about it, other than the facts put out everywhere and I have only sat in city hall in Flint over this for about 50 hours the past 6 months.

Here is the email from July of last year, yes JULY!

http://michiganradio...own-us#stream/0

In one e-mail, Dennis Muchmore, Gov. Snyder’s then-chief of staff, writes the following:

“I’m frustrated by the water issue in Flint. I really don’t think people are getting the benefit of the doubt. Now they are concerned and rightfully so about the lead level studies they are receiving from the DEQ samples … These folks are scared and worried about the health impacts and they are basically getting blown off by us (as a state we’re just not sympathizing with their plight).”

The email does not even come remotely close to establishing what you say it does. In actuality, he sounds kind of concern with the situation, but does not know what to do. That is very different then intentionally ordering poisoning children. You act like the governor is a chemist who understands all this stuff and a doctor who understands how serious these levels could be. Hindsight is much easier.

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Crimes Against Humanity???????

Yes they are certain acts which are committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population or an identifiable part of a population. The first prosecution for crimes against humanity took place at the Nuremberg Trials.

:lmao: OK, whatever. Continue on!

Glad children suffering from lead poisoning at the direction of the Governor is amusing to you.

You jump to way too many conclusions and make too many accusations. What you say and what the facts show are two different things. It was a mistake and seems to have had some terrible consequences, but it was not intentional. If the governor had any idea how bad it really was, he would have done things differently. You make it sound like he ordered the poisoning. It was a sequence of unforseen events. He probably should have responded better and that's what he is guilty of. Hindsight though is easy.

While I won't go as far as DirtyJay, the Governor and the environmental agency knew. There are some very incriminating emails that have been exposed. Like her or not, Maddow's been on this story for a while.

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Well I don't know about jail time unless you can prove deliberate wrongdoing with knowledge of the consequences. I'm not big on jail for screw ups no matter how massive.

But regardless this is a huge and terrible story, and likely a sign of things to come.

The point is there is no way this is an 'error'. This is a deliberate hope for the best kind of scenario that turned out really bad

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Crimes Against Humanity???????

Yes they are certain acts which are committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population or an identifiable part of a population. The first prosecution for crimes against humanity took place at the Nuremberg Trials.

:lmao: OK, whatever. Continue on!

Glad children suffering from lead poisoning at the direction of the Governor is amusing to you.

You jump to way too many conclusions and make too many accusations. What you say and what the facts show are two different things. It was a mistake and seems to have had some terrible consequences, but it was not intentional. If the governor had any idea how bad it really was, he would have done things differently. You make it sound like he ordered the poisoning. It was a sequence of unforseen events. He probably should have responded better and that's what he is guilty of. Hindsight though is easy.

While I won't go as far as DirtyJay, the Governor and the environmental agency knew. There are some very incriminating emails that have been exposed. Like her or not, Maddow's been on this story for a while.

There is no way this was a 'mistake'

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I'd love to hear jon's reaction if Obama had made that decision.

It wouldn't be a news story had he.

Continue the jerking though, guys. Feel free to lend a hand to others.

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