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Dynasty & Redraft: RB Dalvin Cook, Vikings

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20 minutes ago, CabinFever said:

Anyone know what Sankey or Trent Richardsons SPARQ was? That will tell me a lot....

I think Sankey had a very good combine and TRich skipped combine

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37 minutes ago, Milkman said:

I took Bell in front of Gio. Everybody clowned me for it. Bells tape was great and his 3 cone at that size was ridiculous. I like the way I do it and it's been working for me so I'll just keep doing it. I have a list of guys I will be studying tape of after their combine performance this weekend. Dalvin Cook didn't make the list.

his tape is pretty good.....shrug....you do what you do....

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All I know is that Cook is a football player. I don't know what happened at the combine but he was unreal on the field. 

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12 minutes ago, One More Rep said:

I think Sankey had a very good combine and TRich skipped combine

Sankey did have a good combine and it pushed him up way to high in the draft that year

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1 minute ago, Gandalf said:

All I know is that Cook is a football player. I don't know what happened at the combine but he was unreal on the field. 

I agree but this does have me a little nervous. 

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9 hours ago, voiceofunreason said:

All of a sudden this amazing draft looks pretty average to me.

2018 draft will be loaded!!!  Trade all your picks for 2018 1sts nao

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2 hours ago, Billy Ball Thorton said:

Lesean McCoy was terrible in these drills. Ran slow crappy vertices ect. I remember many saying he had no explosion. 

Worked out ok for him. 

I remember this, I passed on him despite what my eyes were telling me. I learned my lesson.

Tex

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2 minutes ago, ratbast said:

Watching his videos he looks awesome. 

 

 

 

Yes. I don't know what happened at the combine. I still believe...

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5 hours ago, petekrum said:

Because you're making the same mistake many make and allowing the combine to shape your views.

Says the guy that drafted Kadeem Carey with the 1.01. I'm not panicking just being realistic, none of these guys are special. Just as stupid as panicking is pretending the combine doesn't matter.

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10 hours ago, Milkman said:

Freeman is one of the worst RB prospects I've ever witnessed have success in the NFL. So it's really terrible company if that's true. 

How has he ever managed to surpass Christine Michael?

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CBS Sports draft analyst Dane Brugler called FSU RB Dalvin Cook's test results at the NFL Scouting Combine "confusing."

 

Cook's numbers were not abysmal, but they were underwhelming given the speed and explosion he has shown on the field. The 5-foot-10, 233-pound FSU standout logged a 40-yard dash of 4.49 seconds, a vertical jump of 30.5 inches and a broad jump of 116 inches. His most impressive test might have actually been the bench press -- he turned in a strong 22 reps there. Even with these "confusing" results now in hand, Brugler wrote on Twitter that he is still viewing Cook as his No. 1 running back in this class.
 
 
Mar 5 - 1:13 PM

 

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7 hours ago, Faust said:

 

I really hate when these guys get weighed at the combine yet lots of these snippets continue to use older weights, especially when very far off.  He weighed 210 lbs, not 233, which is COMPLETELY different. It's what makes his numbers that much more disappointing.

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20 hours ago, voiceofunreason said:

All of a sudden this amazing draft looks pretty average to me.

I think this "amazing" draft was based more on the overall legit depth than having a super strong top half.

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16 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

Well, we know that he produced in college. There's a huge difference between college and the NFL and guys with limited athleticism often struggle when the holes are suddenly smaller and close faster and when defenders all are able to chase you down. 

Totally,agree its cause for concern. Lets see his draft spot and situation

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1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

I really hate when these guys get weighed at the combine yet lots of these snippets continue to use older weights, especially when very far off.  He weighed 210 lbs, not 233, which is COMPLETELY different. It's what makes his numbers that much more disappointing.

I don't remember him ever being listed as 233. I thought during the season he was always considered 210-215.

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10 hours ago, voiceofunreason said:

Says the guy that drafted Kadeem Carey with the 1.01. 

 

Wow.  You'd think something like that would be a humbling experience. Apparently not the case.

 

.

Edited by Bronco Billy

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10 hours ago, voiceofunreason said:

Says the guy that drafted Kadeem Carey with the 1.01. I'm not panicking just being realistic, none of these guys are special. Just as stupid as panicking is pretending the combine doesn't matter.

Uh no, I don't think I drafted Carey 1.1. Try again.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I think this "amazing" draft was based more on the overall legit depth than having a super strong top half.

Now it is.  There was a time it was not.

This time last year people thought this draft would have 4 Zeke's (Fournette, Cook, Chubb, Freeman) and an AJ Green (JuJu) in the first 5 picks.

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Just now, FreeBaGeL said:

Now it is.  There was a time it was not.

This time last year people thought this draft would have 4 Zeke's (Fournette, Cook, Chubb, Freeman) and an AJ Green (JuJu) in the first 5 picks.

Yeah sure - but I was talking more about after we knew who was "in".

I admit that perhaps I should have clarified that Fournette/Cook were both thought to be an "amazing" top two - but after that it was more about the overall depth - and maybe now that has changed for some after the combine.

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3 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I don't remember him ever being listed as 233. I thought during the season he was always considered 210-215.

Yeah I'm guessing that was a typo intended for 213.  Makes no sense as-is.

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Just now, Hankmoody said:

Yeah I'm guessing that was a typo intended for 213.  Makes no sense as-is.

That would make sense.

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1 hour ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Now it is.  There was a time it was not.

This time last year people thought this draft would have 4 Zeke's (Fournette, Cook, Chubb, Freeman) and an AJ Green (JuJu) in the first 5 picks.

I agree, I liked the top-heavy potential of it at the time.  I think people just lost all perspective of risk/uncertainty future picks always have.

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Football Focus analyst Steve Palazzolo notes that FSU RB Dalvin Cook's 40-yard dash time of 4.49 seconds "may put just enough doubt into teams’ minds for a guy that was pegged as a speed back."

 

While Cook just turned in a Combine which CBS Sports' Dane Brugler has called "confusing," it would still be a surprise if the former Seminole slipped all the way into the final picks of the first round. The dazzling speed he routinely showed on film might have been mysteriously absent during Combine work, but that film is impressive.
 

 

Quote

CBS Sports draft analyst Rob Rang believes that the impact of FSU RB Dalvin Cook's underwhelming Combine work is being overblown.

 

"[Cook is a] proven talent who plays quicker and faster than he times in drills because he anticipates defenders," Rang writes, adding that "f [he] falls on draft day, it will be due to medical or off-field concerns, not because his 40-yard dash or shuttle drills weren’t up to par." Over the weekend, Cook ran the 40 in 4.49 seconds and turned in a vertical jump of 30.5 inches with a broad jump of 116 inches.
 
 
Source: CBS Sports 
Mar 7 - 8:45 PM

 

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40 minutes ago, Nero said:

2017 version of Jonathan Franklin.  Overrated!

Franklin never got the chance to show if he was overrated, underrated or rated accurately. 

He was never rated as high as Cook either.

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9 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Franklin never got the chance to show if he was overrated, underrated or rated accurately. 

He was never rated as high as Cook either.

He was by some. A very trendy contrarian top-2 RB for many. And then he fell to the 4th, on his own merits, before the injury.

Obviously Cook was more universally loved than Franklin, I do agree with that.

Edited by ConnSKINS26

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Just now, ConnSKINS26 said:

He was by some. A very trendy contrarian top-2 RB for many. And then he fell to the 4th, on his own merits, before the injury.

Was a bad RB class and most people did not have Bell in their top 5 until he went high in the draft. So even if some people had him as #2 RB it still does not mean he was as highly rated as Cook,  he wasn't.

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Packers beat writer Bob McGinn spoke with an NFL scout who said FSU RB Dalvin Cook is "everything."

We think this conversation took place before Cook's workout, but it is difficult to not be impressed with that Dalvin shows on the field. "He reminds me of Marshall Faulk so much because he can catch the ball," another scout told McGinn. Rotoworld's Josh Norris has ranked Cook as the No. 1 running back in the class the entire season, but it is impossible to not let his lack of athleticism factor in an evaluation. There's always a chance his numbers improve at his pro day, however, as of now Cook's athletic profile has not resulted in a first running back since at least 1999.

Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

 

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  • Questions about health from a shoulder surgery last spring.
  • Lingering character concerns over a battery arrest 2 years ago
  • Severely underwhelming vertical jump
  • Near worst in class 3-cone drill 
  • Horrific SPARQ score (9th percentile -- no RB outside the 10th p. has been drafted in the first round)

All of this means to me that some lucky team is going to get some screaming value selecting him late in the 1st.

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35 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:
  • Questions about health from a shoulder surgery last spring.
  • Lingering character concerns over a battery arrest 2 years ago
  • Severely underwhelming vertical jump
  • Near worst in class 3-cone drill 
  • Horrific SPARQ score (9th percentile -- no RB outside the 10th p. has been drafted in the first round)

All of this means to me that some lucky team is going to get some screaming value selecting him late in the 1st.

I can't tell if you're being facetious or not and your avatar isn't helping any.

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I would say that from watching the tape, Dalvin Cook is the same type/style of runner as Devonta Freeman. Which I guess makes sense since Cook succeeded Freeman at FSU. 

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Any recent RB's that are below 10% SPARQ percentile that have been successful?  

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6 hours ago, Zyphros said:

Any recent RB's that are below 10% SPARQ percentile that have been successful?  

Well. Maybe not success but rarely do they go in the first round 

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7 hours ago, Zyphros said:

Any recent RB's that are below 10% SPARQ percentile that have been successful?  

I'm finding it hard to find historical sparq info. I know Landry had a really poor sparq after the combine but he may have been injured and rehabbed his value at his pro day. I did notice McKinnon was a sparq winner, maybe that's why people still hope he can take the starting job in MIN. He's had 2 chances, and has always timeshares. I found some info on two classes and one was the Sankey class. Good sparq scores but no good rbs. The only bottom of the list guy that has done remotely anything is Antonio Andrews. But I only saw 2 of the more recent pathetic rb classes.

 

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1 hour ago, Gandalf said:

Well. Maybe not success but rarely do they go in the first round 

By rarely, you mean never. 

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9 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:
  • Questions about health from a shoulder surgery last spring.
  • Lingering character concerns over a battery arrest 2 years ago
  • Severely underwhelming vertical jump
  • Near worst in class 3-cone drill 
  • Horrific SPARQ score (9th percentile -- no RB outside the 10th p. has been drafted in the first round)

All of this means to me that some lucky team is going to get some screaming value selecting him late in the 1st.

You undersell it a bit. 3 shoulder surgeries.  13 career fumbles or 1 every 59 touches. To provide context, Fournette was every 82, Perrine 120, Mixon  73, McCaffrey 243.

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4 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

By rarely, you mean never. 

Sorry yes that has never happened.

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Does anyone have an understanding of why Cook sucked at the combine when on tape he looks unstoppable? He's making people Miss which doesn't jibe at all with a terrible 3-cone drill. What the heck is going on???

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4 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

You undersell it a bit. 3 shoulder surgeries.  13 career fumbles or 1 every 59 touches. To provide context, Fournette was every 82, Perrine 120, Mixon  73, McCaffrey 243.

Hard to believe he would do well in the bench press if the shoulders weren't okay

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9 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

Does anyone have an understanding of why Cook sucked at the combine when on tape he looks unstoppable? He's making people Miss which doesn't jibe at all with a terrible 3-cone drill. What the heck is going on???

You can't measure vision and instinct at the underwear olympics. There's no one better in this draft that's why he made so many people miss. Some are just better on the field when it's game time vs dressing up and running timed drills but until he says something we don't really know. Maybe he wasn't 100% healthy but regardless it hasn't altered my view on him one bit. His pro day is March 28th we'll find out soon enough.

Tex

Edited by BigTex
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16 hours ago, Rhythmdoctor said:

I can't tell if you're being facetious or not and your avatar isn't helping any.

LOL, good call. I am actually not being facetious.

You can't be a fence sitter on the Internet, but that's where I am on Cook. There are some tangible concerns -- injury/durability and now character may be one too. I can forgive a bad performance in one drill at the combine, but to miss so poorly and across the board makes me question how seriously Cook took his prep work and practice into the combine. I didn't see anything about him being injured or extenuating circumstance that would have affected his combine day (maybe I just missed it) so such a big whiff will -- and in my mind should -- send him down draft boards.

But I've also seen him play. I see the tape. There is a reason he's a 5-star recruit, even if the team around him was really solid. He's super versatile, regardless of system (can flourish in zone or power/gap scheme), has fantastic balance and elusiveness, and has a gear (especially running to the outside) that can make him uncatchable in space. He's best turning corners but isn't a sideline-to-sideline back. 

There are drawbacks -- a lot of them mentioned in the thread, including fumbles, pass pro, injury history (though his bench at the draft should give comfort for those worried about his shoulders). But bottom line, the guy is a Day 1 starter in the NFL, and if he does tumble in the draft, I think he will be value for the team that takes him.

Edited by Stompin' Tom Connors

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On 3/8/2017 at 10:16 PM, Zyphros said:

Any recent RB's that are below 10% SPARQ percentile that have been successful?  

Hard to find data on this.  From what I can tell the list of guys with SPARQ scores that low is littered with guys that had limited to no success in the NFL.  Probably at a 40 to 1 ratio compared to guys that were useful down there.

That said, there are some other successful backs down in that range.

SPARQ Scores:

Marshawn Lynch: 110.1
Devonta Freeman: 108.7
Dalvin Cook: 107.1
LeSean McCoy: 104.3
Mark Ingram: 99.6

Edited by FreeBaGeL
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1 hour ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Hard to find data on this.  From what I can tell the list of guys with SPARQ scores that low is littered with guys that had limited to no success in the NFL.  Probably at a 40 to 1 ratio compared to guys that were useful down there.

That said, there are some other successful backs down in that range.

SPARQ Scores:

Marshawn Lynch: 110.1
Devonta Freeman: 108.7
Dalvin Cook: 107.1
LeSean McCoy: 104.3
Mark Ingram: 99.6

Curious what was leveons sparq. What exactly does it measure??? 

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On March 9, 2017 at 0:38 PM, Gandalf said:

Does anyone have an understanding of why Cook sucked at the combine when on tape he looks unstoppable? He's making people Miss which doesn't jibe at all with a terrible 3-cone drill. What the heck is going on???

Draft him with confidence.

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On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 0:16 AM, Zyphros said:

Any recent RB's that are below 10% SPARQ percentile that have been successful?  

Last 3 years are listed here. https://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/

E. Elliott ranked 42nd. Treadwell ranked 121st.

Edited by lod001

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53 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Curious what was leveons sparq. What exactly does it measure??? 

LeVeon's was 118.8 so around 35th percentile I believe.

Also note that I don't think SPARQ takes weight into account so a low score for a small back is much worse than a low score for a larger back (since larger backs are expected to be less agile).

Here are the only other guys to finish below the 10th percentile while weighing in at 215lbs or less:

Jalen Richard
Russell Hansbrough
Travis Greene
Terrence Magee
Michael Smith
Glen Coffee
Marshaun Coprich

Edited by FreeBaGeL

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